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Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen Devs in Halnir Cave & Previews of New Things - MMORPG.com

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Comments

  • KajidourdenKajidourden Member EpicPosts: 2,828
    Daakkon said:


    People thins FFXIV has slow boring combat? Just wait for this....



    The difference being is that this is more like EQ1 and FF14 is more like WoW. Apples to Oranges.
    So it'll suck even more then?  I don't get your point.  EQ has never had great...or even good combat.  It was great in spite of it, not because of it.
    da9elbs
  • parrotpholkparrotpholk Member EpicPosts: 4,602
    Daakkon said:


    People thins FFXIV has slow boring combat? Just wait for this....



    The difference being is that this is more like EQ1 and FF14 is more like WoW. Apples to Oranges.
    I agree with the first part as those animations definitely look like EQ.  He makes a valid point though as some do think FFXIV combat is slow, definitely quicker than FFXI but much slower than WOW.  The differences between WOW and FFXIV are great enough to where they are 2 separate games unless you are saying both have quests and raids which Pantheon will also have.
    RoinRastan1
  • DMKanoDMKano Member LegendaryPosts: 21,168
    I sure hope they focus on combat animations (and all animations). For me that is very important. I loved Vanguards world but a lot of animations were really bad.

    The animations are never going to be great here - because the combat and underlying game systems are not dependent on animations at all.

    This is an EQ1 based combat game and animations didnt mean anything in EQ1 either.

    If this was an action combat game - I would agree about animations needing to be much better,  but since this is all about the depth of underlying systems - animations just need to be passable IMO

    And animations are already passable to me
    TorvalSovrathbobbymcswansonSinsai
  • DMKanoDMKano Member LegendaryPosts: 21,168
    druez said:
    I would expect combat animations to have synchronization. e.g. if I'm a warrior and I block an attack or dodge, my character animation would show that. In today's day and age, tab targeting with auto-attack should really look like the characters are engaged and fighting each other. A glancing hit, vs a critical hit auto attack should show the sword swing and landing differently.


    While this would be a nice to have, it is completely optional IMO. 

    Pantheon will live and die by the depth of gameplay not animations accurately showing blocks, Dodges etc...
    TorvalSinsai
  • FlyByKnightFlyByKnight Member EpicPosts: 3,967
    Do they plan on making the combat animations look more varied and less loopy?:

    image
    da9elbs
    "As far as the forum code of conduct, I would think it's a bit outdated and in need of a refre *CLOSED*" 

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • ChaserzChaserz Member UncommonPosts: 229
    This project is coming along quite nicely. I'm very pleased to be a full supporter of this MMORPG.
  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 16,446
    Looking better and better with each stream.


    My only wish is if they had some sort of unique class flavors similar to Vanguard. i.e Blood mage, disciple, etc
    Yes it "looks"good but aside from just class variations,i am seeing nothing creative or new..YET.If we are going to get THIS and just more of,it is imo not good enough,i need to see a NEW game look like a NEW game and not a newer version of old.

    Of course this is not the final product or perhaps not even close,i just hope i begin to see some creative work and some in depth system designs because same old is way too boring for me.
    da9elbs

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 16,446
    Daakkon said:


    People thins FFXIV has slow boring combat? Just wait for this....



    The difference being is that this is more like EQ1 and FF14 is more like WoW. Apples to Oranges.
    So it'll suck even more then?  I don't get your point.  EQ has never had great...or even good combat.  It was great in spite of it, not because of it.
    Eq would not be great by now a days standards but credit is due for it's time at THAT TIME.EQ was breaking ground on a great new mmorpg experience and unlike many modern games actually had group play although i would argue the EQ teams never got the group play done very well.

    Sadly i feel after so many years,FFXI is the peak of combat/depth design,i have not seen a single developer try to go one up but instead i see lots of same old or doing less.

    When you read over all the stuff on the Pantheon site there APPEARS to be a lot of promising talk there but seeing is believing.So far i am not seeing.I don't like to be too critical but WHEN is a good time to voice concern,after the game is done,it is way too late.


    SolancerjimmywolfPrime_DirectiveMendelda9elbsbobbymcswanson

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • XarkoXarko Member RarePosts: 1,130
    The new spell effects look nice and the animations in work look perfectly ok. At this point Im confident to say the combat will be just fine when finished.
  • lahnmirlahnmir Member EpicPosts: 2,822
    I wish their packages were more attractive,. I don´t need more copies of the game.

    Nice progress though.

    /Cheers,
    Lanhnmir
    'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'

    Kyleran on yours sincerely 


    But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.

    Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
  • XiaokiXiaoki Member RarePosts: 3,252

    druez said:

    I would expect combat animations to have synchronization. e.g. if I'm a warrior and I block an attack or dodge, my character animation would show that. In today's day and age, tab targeting with auto-attack should really look like the characters are engaged and fighting each other. A glancing hit, vs a critical hit auto attack should show the sword swing and landing differently.



    If the game was 1 vs 1 fighting then your criticism would have merit. However, the combat is not 1 vs 1.

    How do you synchronize animations of dodge and block when the combat is 1 vs 5? You cant.
  • drivendawndrivendawn Member RarePosts: 2,123



    Daakkon said:





    People thins FFXIV has slow boring combat? Just wait for this....






    The difference being is that this is more like EQ1 and FF14 is more like WoW. Apples to Oranges.


    So it'll suck even more then?  I don't get your point.  EQ has never had great...or even good combat.  It was great in spite of it, not because of it.



    Well I like slower more methodic combat. I loved XI and it was just as slow.
  • druezdruez Member UncommonPosts: 100
    edited April 27

    Xiaoki said:



    druez said:


    I would expect combat animations to have synchronization. e.g. if I'm a warrior and I block an attack or dodge, my character animation would show that. In today's day and age, tab targeting with auto-attack should really look like the characters are engaged and fighting each other. A glancing hit, vs a critical hit auto attack should show the sword swing and landing differently.






    If the game was 1 vs 1 fighting then your criticism would have merit. However, the combat is not 1 vs 1.



    How do you synchronize animations of dodge and block when the combat is 1 vs 5? You cant.



    Yes you can, what are you talking about? I like to watch the fights. To me the presentation of the combat is just telling the story of the numbers and dice rolls behind the scenes. For example, 2 monsters swing at you, you dodge 1 and block the other. The third monster hits you. Your character on screen would show a doge, block with shield and then impact from a monster hit. That is very possible to do.
    Mikeha
  • TEKK3NTEKK3N Member RarePosts: 703
    I like it the way it is (plus better animations).
  • LokeroLokero Member RarePosts: 1,513
    edited April 27

    druez said:

    Xiaoki said:



    druez said:


    I would expect combat animations to have synchronization. e.g. if I'm a warrior and I block an attack or dodge, my character animation would show that. In today's day and age, tab targeting with auto-attack should really look like the characters are engaged and fighting each other. A glancing hit, vs a critical hit auto attack should show the sword swing and landing differently.






    If the game was 1 vs 1 fighting then your criticism would have merit. However, the combat is not 1 vs 1.



    How do you synchronize animations of dodge and block when the combat is 1 vs 5? You cant.



    Yes you can, what are you talking about? I like to watch the fights. To me the presentation of the combat is just telling the story of the numbers and dice rolls behind the scenes. For example, 2 monsters swing at you, you dodge 1 and block the other. The third monster hits you. Your character on screen would show a doge, block with shield and then impact from a monster hit. That is very possible to do.
    It's a bit of an unfair criticism and expectation from an indie studio developing an MMO, though.  Most MMOs don't have reactionary animations, at least from all the ones I remember.
    As DMKano mentioned, since most MMOs are just auto-attacking, there won't likely be much effort put into that area.
    Auto-attack MMO combat is like Colonial-era combat with musket lines -- people just stand in front of each other and take shots without any effort to not get hit.

    It's something I'd like to see, but certainly am not expecting it from small indie companies trying to develop a full game world with limited resources.
  • MikehaMikeha Member EpicPosts: 8,920
    edited April 27

    Xiaoki said:



    druez said:


    I would expect combat animations to have synchronization. e.g. if I'm a warrior and I block an attack or dodge, my character animation would show that. In today's day and age, tab targeting with auto-attack should really look like the characters are engaged and fighting each other. A glancing hit, vs a critical hit auto attack should show the sword swing and landing differently.






    If the game was 1 vs 1 fighting then your criticism would have merit. However, the combat is not 1 vs 1.



    How do you synchronize animations of dodge and block when the combat is 1 vs 5? You cant.




    It looks like everybody is hitting air in this game. Combat has to have impact.
    druez
  • DMKanoDMKano Member LegendaryPosts: 21,168
    Mikeha said:

    Xiaoki said:



    druez said:


    I would expect combat animations to have synchronization. e.g. if I'm a warrior and I block an attack or dodge, my character animation would show that. In today's day and age, tab targeting with auto-attack should really look like the characters are engaged and fighting each other. A glancing hit, vs a critical hit auto attack should show the sword swing and landing differently.






    If the game was 1 vs 1 fighting then your criticism would have merit. However, the combat is not 1 vs 1.



    How do you synchronize animations of dodge and block when the combat is 1 vs 5? You cant.




    It looks like everybody is hitting air in this game. Combat has to have impact.
     
    EQ1 never had impact in combat - it was never a problem, because its not that type of game at all.

    In a action game yes, combat needs impact - but MUD based games - it's all about the underlying depth of systems, combat is merely a visual representation of die rolls and underlining math formulas
    Mylan12SovrathSinsai
  • Prime_DirectivePrime_Directive Member RarePosts: 1,303
    Wonder if they though about a turned based high fantasy combat system..
    There is a multiverse inside our minds which millions live.
    #BoycottChina
  • XiaokiXiaoki Member RarePosts: 3,252
    druez said:

    Xiaoki said:



    druez said:


    I would expect combat animations to have synchronization. e.g. if I'm a warrior and I block an attack or dodge, my character animation would show that. In today's day and age, tab targeting with auto-attack should really look like the characters are engaged and fighting each other. A glancing hit, vs a critical hit auto attack should show the sword swing and landing differently.






    If the game was 1 vs 1 fighting then your criticism would have merit. However, the combat is not 1 vs 1.



    How do you synchronize animations of dodge and block when the combat is 1 vs 5? You cant.



    Yes you can, what are you talking about? I like to watch the fights. To me the presentation of the combat is just telling the story of the numbers and dice rolls behind the scenes. For example, 2 monsters swing at you, you dodge 1 and block the other. The third monster hits you. Your character on screen would show a doge, block with shield and then impact from a monster hit. That is very possible to do.
    SWTOR tried something like when it launched and was forced to remove it because of massive complaints from the community.

    The problem is that your character would spend too much time in dodge/block/parry animations that there would be conflicts with attack or movement animations.

    You could use advanced animation blending but I dont think even that would fix the animation clipping issues that would arise when your character tries to do a special attack, block, dodge and move to the left all at the same time.

    Thats why it wouldnt work and why you are not a video game developer.


    jimmywolf
  • ShaighShaigh Member RarePosts: 2,007
    Xiaoki said:
    druez said:

    Xiaoki said:



    druez said:


    I would expect combat animations to have synchronization. e.g. if I'm a warrior and I block an attack or dodge, my character animation would show that. In today's day and age, tab targeting with auto-attack should really look like the characters are engaged and fighting each other. A glancing hit, vs a critical hit auto attack should show the sword swing and landing differently.






    If the game was 1 vs 1 fighting then your criticism would have merit. However, the combat is not 1 vs 1.



    How do you synchronize animations of dodge and block when the combat is 1 vs 5? You cant.



    Yes you can, what are you talking about? I like to watch the fights. To me the presentation of the combat is just telling the story of the numbers and dice rolls behind the scenes. For example, 2 monsters swing at you, you dodge 1 and block the other. The third monster hits you. Your character on screen would show a doge, block with shield and then impact from a monster hit. That is very possible to do.
    SWTOR tried something like when it launched and was forced to remove it because of massive complaints from the community.

    The problem is that your character would spend too much time in dodge/block/parry animations that there would be conflicts with attack or movement animations.

    You could use advanced animation blending but I dont think even that would fix the animation clipping issues that would arise when your character tries to do a special attack, block, dodge and move to the left all at the same time.

    Thats why it wouldnt work and why you are not a video game developer.


    Swtor made it so certain skills timed it with animation, the problem arose when you have different animations where the actual effect looks like it happens on a delay which meant that the ability happened on the same delay.

    To be specific, SI had a stun on instant animation while JC stun happened at the end of the animation, in game terms that meant stun was always on a 0.3-0.5 seconds delay for the consular class. This meant that SI was better than its mirror simply because of how animations were made.

    The reason why some fighting games have solid animations is because without animations the game falls short so therefore they spend a ton of money on getting it right. With MMORPG its not as important because its just a visualization of dice rolls.

    Its about money and not about whether its possible or not.
    The cynic knows the price of everything and the value of nothing.
  • SirAgravaineSirAgravaine Member RarePosts: 518
    Mars_Orbital has posted like 7 times on this thread....
    Xarko
  • BruceYeeBruceYee Member RarePosts: 1,632
    Has anyone mentioned the level of detail in dem bricks on the wall or that dark dungeony lighting. That is pretty realistic compared to other games that have entire dungeons lit up bright as a hospital even though there isn't a single light around.

    Very excited for this game, hope it actually gets released.
    druezdrivendawnSinsaiPrepared
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 11,745
    Mars_Orbital has posted like 7 times on this thread....
    You need to get a few more in then. :)

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  • jgDuffayjgDuffay Member UncommonPosts: 217

    druez said:



    Xiaoki said:





    druez said:



    I would expect combat animations to have synchronization. e.g. if I'm a warrior and I block an attack or dodge, my character animation would show that. In today's day and age, tab targeting with auto-attack should really look like the characters are engaged and fighting each other. A glancing hit, vs a critical hit auto attack should show the sword swing and landing differently.









    If the game was 1 vs 1 fighting then your criticism would have merit. However, the combat is not 1 vs 1.





    How do you synchronize animations of dodge and block when the combat is 1 vs 5? You cant.






    Yes you can, what are you talking about? I like to watch the fights. To me the presentation of the combat is just telling the story of the numbers and dice rolls behind the scenes.

    For example, 2 monsters swing at you, you dodge 1 and block the other. The third monster hits you. Your character on screen would show a doge, block with shield and then impact from a monster hit. That is very possible to do.



    I guess this is like comparing Fifa to soccer manager, even though soccer manager has improved in graphics over the years I think.
  • BountygateBountygate Newbie CommonPosts: 2
    RIP
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