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Blizzard killed off it's competitors by lucky coincidence.

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  • bcbullybcbully Member EpicPosts: 9,775
    BruceYee said:
    I would like to be Brandon Stark for a few minutes to see how things could have been if WoW was never made. Would the classic MMO format still be the norm or would there be something else.

    SOE in the top spot was pretty bad though with their attitude toward their customers if you can remember that far back.

    No one can deny that WoW coming on the scene permanently changed the MMO genre but whether it was good or bad is a matter of opinion. What WoW did to the MMO genre may have contributed to the success of other games that received large numbers of WoW refugees.

    Think we'll have to settle for AA from now on but that's ok with me.
    I’m not aware of Brandon Starks ability to see alternate realities.... js
  • AAAMEOWAAAMEOW Member UncommonPosts: 1,096
    ikcin said:
    You are clueless.  WoW, by itself, did over a BILLION dollars the last fiscal year. 
    This is simply not true.
    I think it is true because there is an expansion last year.  I don't have source though.  If you find any article or link to it, let me know.
  • delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 5,789
    AAAMEOW said:
    ikcin said:
    You are clueless.  WoW, by itself, did over a BILLION dollars the last fiscal year. 
    This is simply not true.
    I think it is true because there is an expansion last year.  I don't have source though.  If you find any article or link to it, let me know.
    I must be getting really old.  When I was a small kid, people used to say a thousand was a lot of money, in my 20's people were using the word million.... Now it's Billions, they say it like nothing.   

    So !......... If your young and people start saying trillion, you'll understand what I'm talking about.  
  • ikcinikcin Member RarePosts: 2,205
    https://investor.activision.com/static-files/bd70401d-236c-4499-b478-9d848b06cba1


    As you can see Blizzard made 2.3 billions, but WoW made much less than a billion.

    Blizzard’s key product franchises include: World of Warcraft®, a subscription-based massive multi-player online role-playing game for the PC platform; StarCraft®, a real-time strategy franchise for the PC platform; Diablo®, an action role-playing franchise for the PC and console platforms; Hearthstone®, an online collectible card franchise for the PC and mobile platforms; and Overwatch®, a team-based first-person shooter for the PC and console platforms. And from these franchises WoW is on fourth place as number of players and revenue.
  • HorusraHorusra Member EpicPosts: 4,103
    edited May 10
    ikcin said:
    https://investor.activision.com/static-files/bd70401d-236c-4499-b478-9d848b06cba1


    As you can see Blizzard made 2.3 billions, but WoW made much less than a billion.

    Blizzard’s key product franchises include: World of Warcraft®, a subscription-based massive multi-player online role-playing game for the PC platform; StarCraft®, a real-time strategy franchise for the PC platform; Diablo®, an action role-playing franchise for the PC and console platforms; Hearthstone®, an online collectible card franchise for the PC and mobile platforms; and Overwatch®, a team-based first-person shooter for the PC and console platforms. And from these franchises WoW is on fourth place as number of players and revenue.
    Seeing as there is no individual breakdown in your link I doubt your conclusion based on the numbers in the report.  Numbers in the report or Net also...not Gross.
    Hatefull
  • AAAMEOWAAAMEOW Member UncommonPosts: 1,096
    Horusra said:
    ikcin said:
    https://investor.activision.com/static-files/bd70401d-236c-4499-b478-9d848b06cba1


    As you can see Blizzard made 2.3 billions, but WoW made much less than a billion.

    Blizzard’s key product franchises include: World of Warcraft®, a subscription-based massive multi-player online role-playing game for the PC platform; StarCraft®, a real-time strategy franchise for the PC platform; Diablo®, an action role-playing franchise for the PC and console platforms; Hearthstone®, an online collectible card franchise for the PC and mobile platforms; and Overwatch®, a team-based first-person shooter for the PC and console platforms. And from these franchises WoW is on fourth place as number of players and revenue.
    Seeing as there is no individual breakdown in your link I doubt your conclusion based on the numbers in the report.  Numbers in the report or Net also...not Gross.
    hearth stone and over watch is pretty big.  And he is probably talking profit not sales.
  • ikcinikcin Member RarePosts: 2,205
    AAAMEOW said:
    Horusra said:
    ikcin said:
    https://investor.activision.com/static-files/bd70401d-236c-4499-b478-9d848b06cba1


    As you can see Blizzard made 2.3 billions, but WoW made much less than a billion.

    Blizzard’s key product franchises include: World of Warcraft®, a subscription-based massive multi-player online role-playing game for the PC platform; StarCraft®, a real-time strategy franchise for the PC platform; Diablo®, an action role-playing franchise for the PC and console platforms; Hearthstone®, an online collectible card franchise for the PC and mobile platforms; and Overwatch®, a team-based first-person shooter for the PC and console platforms. And from these franchises WoW is on fourth place as number of players and revenue.
    Seeing as there is no individual breakdown in your link I doubt your conclusion based on the numbers in the report.  Numbers in the report or Net also...not Gross.
    hearth stone and over watch is pretty big.  And he is probably talking profit not sales.
    They point the net revenue - https://investinganswers.com/dictionary/n/net-revenue As you can see it is the revenue adjusted with the discounts and the refunds. And Overwatch, Diablo and Hearthstone - everyone is much bigger than WoW. So, I do not know how much is the revenue of WoW, but for sure it is far bellow a billion. Here I made a mistake, as Hearthstone is part of the WoW franchise, but it is a different product from WoW. So as a franchise WoW is second - after Overwatch. But as a game it is fourth.
  • Jean-Luc_PicardJean-Luc_Picard Member LegendaryPosts: 8,045
    edited May 11
    Horusra said:
    ikcin said:
    https://investor.activision.com/static-files/bd70401d-236c-4499-b478-9d848b06cba1


    As you can see Blizzard made 2.3 billions, but WoW made much less than a billion.

    Blizzard’s key product franchises include: World of Warcraft®, a subscription-based massive multi-player online role-playing game for the PC platform; StarCraft®, a real-time strategy franchise for the PC platform; Diablo®, an action role-playing franchise for the PC and console platforms; Hearthstone®, an online collectible card franchise for the PC and mobile platforms; and Overwatch®, a team-based first-person shooter for the PC and console platforms. And from these franchises WoW is on fourth place as number of players and revenue.
    Seeing as there is no individual breakdown in your link I doubt your conclusion based on the numbers in the report.  Numbers in the report or Net also...not Gross.
    Looks like conclusions based on personal dislike of a company to me too...
    HatefullHorusra
    "The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn in Star Wars.
    After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that nor does the ability to write.
    CPU: Core I7 9700k (4.90ghz) - GPU: Gigabyte GTX 980 Ti G1 Gaming - RAM: 16GB Kingston HyperX Savage DDR4 3000 - Motherboard: Gigabyte Z390 Aorus Ultra - PSU: Antec TruePower New 750W - Storage: Kingston KC1000 NVMe 960gb SSD and 2x1TB WD Velociraptor HDDs (Raid 0) - Main display: Philips 40PUK6809 4K 3D TV - Second display: Philips 273v 27" gaming monitor - VR: Pimax 8K headset and Razer Hydra controllers - Soundcard: Sony STR-DH550 AV Receiver HDMI linked with the GPU and the TV, with Jamo S 426 HS 3 5.0 speakers and Pioneer S-21W subwoofer - OS: Windows 10 Pro 64 bits.

  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 33,932
    edited May 11
    Facts are your friend, this quoted from the 2018 SEC annual report. WOW is clearly the juggernaut of the Blizzard portfolio.

    Top Franchises
    For the year ended December 31, 2018, our top three franchises—Call of Duty, Candy Crush, and World of Warcraft—collectively accounted for 58% of our net revenues. For the years ended December 31, 2017 and 2016, our top four franchises—Call of Duty, Candy Crush, World of Warcraft, and Overwatch—collectively accounted for 66% and 69% of our net revenues, respectively. No other franchise comprised 10% or more of our net revenues in the respective periods discussed above

    Math can also be your friend,  Activision /Blizzards annual revenue for 2018 was  US$7.500 billion (from their 2019 10K filing)

    58% of 7.5B is $4.35B....so it is not unreasonable to assume WOW is accounting for somewhere near or over a billion of the total.

    Being my personal confirmation bias can't fathom why anyone would still play COD or Candy Crush I'd put WOW at over $2.5 B, but that's just me.  ;)



    HatefullHorusra

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    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

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  • VinterkrigVinterkrig Member UncommonPosts: 1,793


     

    Ok so what happened ?

    Blizzard CHANGED DIRECTION and all others followed down the rabbit hole.  They invented the solo experience with easy family and extremely accessible Looking for group tool. 


    Nope, Blizzard had an already popular IP come out at the perfect time, the other games had a bit of age on them, while cable internet was really just starting to become easily available/affordable in homes, gaming PC parts and somewhat capable computers were also just starting to become available and affordable as well.

    WoW was a culmination of a lot of the already released games, just shy of copywrite issues that had very little originality on its own outside of the world they created.

    Because of the tech/internet boom and more people jumping into online gaming than ever before the perfect storm of a massive community in an online game happened and people stuck around mostly for that. To their credit, they did take all the best parts of older games and made something slightly more casual generally speaking with hardcore elements.

    Blizzard will never have another WoW, it was the perfect storm at the perfect time.

    Also, I might add... other games had amazing communities that were full of life, I'm not sure if you were too young to play the other games and are going off of some nonsense you think you know, or if you actually played them and just happened to never move in the game...

    but anyone who is old enough and played these games will tell you about the amazing community they had in UO, EQ, AO, AC, DAOC....etc..etc.. the difference is MMOs barriers had larger walls at that point so 1,000s or 100,000s of people were more realistic than millions that Blizzard enjoyed, had they been an older game, an actual innovator of the genre upon release like the OGs, they would have had similar numbers.


    Coorslite
  • Jean-Luc_PicardJean-Luc_Picard Member LegendaryPosts: 8,045

    Blizzard will never have another WoW, it was the perfect storm at the perfect time.

    In MMOs, they may never be another WoW at all, no matter the company.
    But Blizzard still made Overwatch, and it stormed the FPS world just like WoW did.
    They also made Hearthstone, and it did the same with the card games world.

    Maybe it's not just luck, but they are also good at what they are doing ?
    HatefullKyleran
    "The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn in Star Wars.
    After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that nor does the ability to write.
    CPU: Core I7 9700k (4.90ghz) - GPU: Gigabyte GTX 980 Ti G1 Gaming - RAM: 16GB Kingston HyperX Savage DDR4 3000 - Motherboard: Gigabyte Z390 Aorus Ultra - PSU: Antec TruePower New 750W - Storage: Kingston KC1000 NVMe 960gb SSD and 2x1TB WD Velociraptor HDDs (Raid 0) - Main display: Philips 40PUK6809 4K 3D TV - Second display: Philips 273v 27" gaming monitor - VR: Pimax 8K headset and Razer Hydra controllers - Soundcard: Sony STR-DH550 AV Receiver HDMI linked with the GPU and the TV, with Jamo S 426 HS 3 5.0 speakers and Pioneer S-21W subwoofer - OS: Windows 10 Pro 64 bits.

  • AlbatroesAlbatroes Member LegendaryPosts: 6,487

    Blizzard will never have another WoW, it was the perfect storm at the perfect time.

    In MMOs, they may never be another WoW at all, no matter the company.
    But Blizzard still made Overwatch, and it stormed the FPS world just like WoW did.
    They also made Hearthstone, and it did the same with the card games world.

    Maybe it's not just luck, but they are also good at what they are doing ?
    Keep in mind that all of that was under a different head and J. Allen isn't really the passive type. If we're lucky at this year's blizzcon, we'll get some decent details on WoW's next expansion with some concept art or actual footage of "Diablo IV" (which I'm honestly thinking it'll be mmo-ish) with obvious mobile projects weaved in their. I guess people can continue to overlook the app thing for now as well.
  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 16,452
    When people buy their games not knowing ANYTHING about them,it is luck and stupidity.When yo see a million or 5 on the every first day,they jumped in blind,obviously just buying in to be a part of the IN CROWD.

    If it was as simple as being good at what you do ,Diablo 3 woule still be relevant but POE is imo more popular and HOTS takes a back seat.

    If anyone thinks Overwatch is good at what it odes,being a fps pvp pro sport game,i laugh out very loud.Go watch UnrealTorunament players and you'll see all the OW players are complete noobs when comes to fps esports.OW caters to the casual,the HERO identity,UT caters to the GAME/skill/layout and there is a BIG difference.

    Does Blizzard ruin it for competitors,pfft i feel it is the exact opposite.Sure maybe 5 years ago before i knew much about Blizzard,i could be lured in but NOW,haha funny,i have a very clear expectation of what Blizzard will deliver and it is not what i want from gaming.So i hardly even pay attention to Blizzard because i know they will release 3 things,cash shop,shallow gameplay and BRAGGING platforms.I do NOT game for any of those three ideals.

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • btdtbtdt Member RarePosts: 512
    edited May 11

    Blizzard will never have another WoW, it was the perfect storm at the perfect time.

    In MMOs, they may never be another WoW at all, no matter the company.
    But Blizzard still made Overwatch, and it stormed the FPS world just like WoW did.
    They also made Hearthstone, and it did the same with the card games world.

    Maybe it's not just luck, but they are also good at what they are doing ?
    Came in with a roar and went out with a whisper.  Reality is, it was the existing WoW player base that made that roar for them.  Had it not been a Blizzard title, it would not have been enamored by the WoW crowd.  This is still just the trickle down affect of WoW at work, not some sort of greatness on Blizzard's part.  Anyone with half a brain knows that die hard WoW fans would buy into anything Blizzard threw at them sight unseen.  Those days are waning fast for Blizzard so they are less likely to get that sort of response in the future.

    As for the next WoW expansion?  It will always bring the die hards back in droves... but that fan base isn't what it used to be anymore, so the coffers are running dry a bit fast these days to support such a behemoth of a company.  Hence all the downsizing going on.

    Reality is, players aren't as loyal as they once were because their need for more new things outpaces any one company's ability to meet the demand.  As such, once you lose brand loyalty, you also lose customers over time.

    Blizzard's days are numbered.  As Jeff Bezo's said... even Amazon will fall.
    Vinterkrig
  • Jean-Luc_PicardJean-Luc_Picard Member LegendaryPosts: 8,045
    You guys can't be real... denying the success and talent of a company just because you came to dislike some of its products.

    I hate McDonalds, but I can't deny they are immensely successful and that it's not anywhere close to stop. Is it a good or bad thing? Bad in my opinion... but facts are facts, which are different from opinion or mood.
    HatefullVinterkrig
    "The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn in Star Wars.
    After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that nor does the ability to write.
    CPU: Core I7 9700k (4.90ghz) - GPU: Gigabyte GTX 980 Ti G1 Gaming - RAM: 16GB Kingston HyperX Savage DDR4 3000 - Motherboard: Gigabyte Z390 Aorus Ultra - PSU: Antec TruePower New 750W - Storage: Kingston KC1000 NVMe 960gb SSD and 2x1TB WD Velociraptor HDDs (Raid 0) - Main display: Philips 40PUK6809 4K 3D TV - Second display: Philips 273v 27" gaming monitor - VR: Pimax 8K headset and Razer Hydra controllers - Soundcard: Sony STR-DH550 AV Receiver HDMI linked with the GPU and the TV, with Jamo S 426 HS 3 5.0 speakers and Pioneer S-21W subwoofer - OS: Windows 10 Pro 64 bits.

  • HarikenHariken Member RarePosts: 2,352
    Wasn't Wow the first also to have ads on TV for the game. I don't remember seeing other MMO ads on TV and that had to be a big influence too. That's what made the MMO mainstream.
  • HatefullHatefull Member EpicPosts: 2,180
    You guys can't be real... denying the success and talent of a company just because you came to dislike some of its products.

    I hate McDonalds, but I can't deny they are immensely successful and that it's not anywhere close to stop. Is it a good or bad thing? Bad in my opinion... but facts are facts, which are different from opinion or mood.
    @Kyleran is the only person to submit a post based on fact. Everyone else just has this blind hate thing going on, hoping that their wishes come true. Dunno.

    Blizz has a knack for looking at what people like, putting it together and making a buck. Love them or hate them, it is true.
    Jean-Luc_PicardVinterkrig

    If you want a new idea, go read an old book.

  • Jean-Luc_PicardJean-Luc_Picard Member LegendaryPosts: 8,045
    Hatefull said:
    You guys can't be real... denying the success and talent of a company just because you came to dislike some of its products.

    I hate McDonalds, but I can't deny they are immensely successful and that it's not anywhere close to stop. Is it a good or bad thing? Bad in my opinion... but facts are facts, which are different from opinion or mood.
    @Kyleran is the only person to submit a post based on fact.
    That makes two if you include me ;)
    HatefullVinterkrig
    "The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn in Star Wars.
    After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that nor does the ability to write.
    CPU: Core I7 9700k (4.90ghz) - GPU: Gigabyte GTX 980 Ti G1 Gaming - RAM: 16GB Kingston HyperX Savage DDR4 3000 - Motherboard: Gigabyte Z390 Aorus Ultra - PSU: Antec TruePower New 750W - Storage: Kingston KC1000 NVMe 960gb SSD and 2x1TB WD Velociraptor HDDs (Raid 0) - Main display: Philips 40PUK6809 4K 3D TV - Second display: Philips 273v 27" gaming monitor - VR: Pimax 8K headset and Razer Hydra controllers - Soundcard: Sony STR-DH550 AV Receiver HDMI linked with the GPU and the TV, with Jamo S 426 HS 3 5.0 speakers and Pioneer S-21W subwoofer - OS: Windows 10 Pro 64 bits.

  • AAAMEOWAAAMEOW Member UncommonPosts: 1,096
    • Blizzard had 35 million MAUsC in the quarter, as Overwatch® and Hearthstone® saw sequential stability and World of Warcraft® saw expected declines post-expansion-launch. Fourth quarter segment revenues grew 15% year-over-year to $686 million and operating income increased 51% year-over-year to $241 million.
    It depend if people are talking about sales or profit.  (I don't know what people are talking about)

    For sales Wow might be able to get 1 billion.  For profit obviously not.
  • ikcinikcin Member RarePosts: 2,205
    Kyleran said:
    Facts are your friend, this quoted from the 2018 SEC annual report. WOW is clearly the juggernaut of the Blizzard portfolio.

    Top Franchises
    For the year ended December 31, 2018, our top three franchises—Call of Duty, Candy Crush, and World of Warcraft—collectively accounted for 58% of our net revenues. For the years ended December 31, 2017 and 2016, our top four franchises—Call of Duty, Candy Crush, World of Warcraft, and Overwatch—collectively accounted for 66% and 69% of our net revenues, respectively. No other franchise comprised 10% or more of our net revenues in the respective periods discussed above

    Math can also be your friend,  Activision /Blizzards annual revenue for 2018 was  US$7.500 billion (from their 2019 10K filing)

    58% of 7.5B is $4.35B....so it is not unreasonable to assume WOW is accounting for somewhere near or over a billion of the total.

    Being my personal confirmation bias can't fathom why anyone would still play COD or Candy Crush I'd put WOW at over $2.5 B, but that's just me.  ;)
    And you missed the part with the revenue of Blizzard only, which is 2.3 billions. So CoD and CC are in fact much bigger than WoW. As in that 2.3 you shall put also Diablo, HS, and Overwatch. Still you claim WoW made 2.5 billions?
  • ikcinikcin Member RarePosts: 2,205
    edited May 11
    AAAMEOW said:
    • Blizzard had 35 million MAUsC in the quarter, as Overwatch® and Hearthstone® saw sequential stability and World of Warcraft® saw expected declines post-expansion-launch. Fourth quarter segment revenues grew 15% year-over-year to $686 million and operating income increased 51% year-over-year to $241 million.
    It depend if people are talking about sales or profit.  (I don't know what people are talking about)

    For sales Wow might be able to get 1 billion.  For profit obviously not.
    It is net revenue, so the revenue after the gross sales are adjusted with the discounts and refunds.

    Counting the quarterly reports and all the data available I will say last year WoW made about 350-400 millions USD as net revenue. And it is still the MMORPG with most sales worldwide. That only shows the fall of the genre.
    Post edited by ikcin on
  • HorusraHorusra Member EpicPosts: 4,103
    btdt said: bou

    Blizzard will never have another WoW, it was the perfect storm at the perfect time.

    In MMOs, they may never be another WoW at all, no matter the company.
    But Blizzard still made Overwatch, and it stormed the FPS world just like WoW did.
    They also made Hearthstone, and it did the same with the card games world.

    Maybe it's not just luck, but they are also good at what they are doing ?
    Came in with a roar and went out with a whisper.  Reality is, it was the existing WoW player base that made that roar for them.  Had it not been a Blizzard title, it would not have been enamored by the WoW crowd.  This is still just the trickle down affect of WoW at work, not some sort of greatness on Blizzard's part.  Anyone with half a brain knows that die hard WoW fans would buy into anything Blizzard threw at them sight unseen.  Those days are waning fast for Blizzard so they are less likely to get that sort of response in the future.

    As for the next WoW expansion?  It will always bring the die hards back in droves... but that fan base isn't what it used to be anymore, so the coffers are running dry a bit fast these days to support such a behemoth of a company.  Hence all the downsizing going on.

    Reality is, players aren't as loyal as they once were because their need for more new things outpaces any one company's ability to meet the demand.  As such, once you lose brand loyalty, you also lose customers over time.

    Blizzard's days are numbered.  As Jeff Bezo's said... even Amazon will fall.
    In order to have trickle down to other products you first have to have products that people like.  Thus greatness on Blizzard's part.  People flock back to every new product Blizzard makes.  They might not stay, but they come back in droves.

    Companies always grow and  contract with time.  Does not mean the company is dying.

    Your post then contradicts itself by saying players are not loyal but at the start you say Blizzard is only big because fans are loyal....
  • HorusraHorusra Member EpicPosts: 4,103
    Hariken said:
    Wasn't Wow the first also to have ads on TV for the game. I don't remember seeing other MMO ads on TV and that had to be a big influence too. That's what made the MMO mainstream.
    EQ had some ads....not Super Bowl type, but they had quick ads on tv.
  • AAAMEOWAAAMEOW Member UncommonPosts: 1,096
    ikcin said:
    AAAMEOW said:
    • Blizzard had 35 million MAUsC in the quarter, as Overwatch® and Hearthstone® saw sequential stability and World of Warcraft® saw expected declines post-expansion-launch. Fourth quarter segment revenues grew 15% year-over-year to $686 million and operating income increased 51% year-over-year to $241 million.
    It depend if people are talking about sales or profit.  (I don't know what people are talking about)

    For sales Wow might be able to get 1 billion.  For profit obviously not.
    It is net revenue, so the revenue after the gross sales are adjusted with the discounts and refunds.

    Counting the quarterly reports and all the data available I will say last year WoW made about 350-400 millions USD as net revenue. And it is still the MMORPG with most sales worldwide. That only shows the fall of the genre.
    You just presume people are talking about net revenue and arguing about it.  No where have people state they are talking about gross revenue or net revenue.
  • ikcinikcin Member RarePosts: 2,205
    edited May 12
    AAAMEOW said:
    ikcin said:
    AAAMEOW said:
    • Blizzard had 35 million MAUsC in the quarter, as Overwatch® and Hearthstone® saw sequential stability and World of Warcraft® saw expected declines post-expansion-launch. Fourth quarter segment revenues grew 15% year-over-year to $686 million and operating income increased 51% year-over-year to $241 million.
    It depend if people are talking about sales or profit.  (I don't know what people are talking about)

    For sales Wow might be able to get 1 billion.  For profit obviously not.
    It is net revenue, so the revenue after the gross sales are adjusted with the discounts and refunds.

    Counting the quarterly reports and all the data available I will say last year WoW made about 350-400 millions USD as net revenue. And it is still the MMORPG with most sales worldwide. That only shows the fall of the genre.
    You just presume people are talking about net revenue and arguing about it.  No where have people state they are talking about gross revenue or net revenue.
    I give you explanation what is the differences among net and gross revenue. You still insist there is something unclear. What is unclear? They report the revenue after the discounts and the refunds, so the real money they got, instead the gross sales. Which is pretty logical for a company in that business. And of course I presume. Still the numbers support my presumption. Several years past since WoW has been made a billion per year.
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