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Blizzard killed off it's competitors by lucky coincidence.

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Comments

  • nyxiumnyxium Member UncommonPosts: 1,266
    edited April 23
    Blizz are about to launch their own biggest competitor, WoW Classic. Which I think will ironically kill off WoW: BFA into a death spiral of empty ghost town servers with swollen populated Classic servers.
    Jean-Luc_PicardGaladournjimmywolf

    image
  • ikcinikcin Member RarePosts: 2,171
    ikcin said:

    Furthermore, while all games share the same type of game theory designs and overall abilities and such, LoL and WoW aren't the same, though. MOBAs are a different genre than RPGs. 
    Really so all these classes which are the core of LoL are not RPG? An average MMORPG has how many classes? 4, 8, 20 maybe. LoL has 100. It has more RP than any MMORPG. And every class has story, lore, videos, tactics, sets, customization. How that is not RP? Mobas are not about VR and living in the game, as the games are much shorter. This is the only major difference among LoL and WoW. Deal with the facts, could you?
    They are not user created characters with their own stories. They are premades you choose, not create yourself and name yourself, and assume some identity with. Much like FPS games, you grab a premade as your toon in MOBAs.

    RPGs you create and customize your toon, as s/he's your hero. How you play it is upto your taste. Not some premade weapon you pick up and run off with.
    In LoL heroes are highly customizable. The level of customization is higher than in WoW. There is a variety of skins, weapons, skills, sets, abilities, runes and etc. Not to mention your definition of RPG is a nonsense. By your definition the Witcher is not RPG for example. So obviously you cannot deal with the facts. LoL has definitely better RPG than WoW. Also much better PvP. The PvE is almost alike. The raids in WoW are better. And the only general difference is the duration of the game. Deal with it, as a game LoL is better than WoW.

    As a VR it is not due to the shorter gameplay. But here we are talking about games, aren't we?
    Kyleranbcbully
  • VrikaVrika Member EpicPosts: 5,408
    ikcin said:

    Furthermore, while all games share the same type of game theory designs and overall abilities and such, LoL and WoW aren't the same, though. MOBAs are a different genre than RPGs. 
    Really so all these classes which are the core of LoL are not RPG? An average MMORPG has how many classes? 4, 8, 20 maybe. LoL has 100. It has more RP than any MMORPG. And every class has story, lore, videos, tactics, sets, customization. How that is not RP? Mobas are not about VR and living in the game, as the games are much shorter. This is the only major difference among LoL and WoW. Deal with the facts, could you?
    How did we end up discussing about definition of RPG?

    Anyway far as computer games go, RPGs are normally games that focus on
     1. long-term character development, and
     2. either playing through a story or living in a world as its inhabitant

    It's not a strict definition and there are many different types of games that are called an RPG, but LoL is not classified as an RPG because it's quite far from what computer RPGs normally are and it fits much better to MOBA category (multiplayer online battle arena).
    Kyleranbcbully
     
  • ikcinikcin Member RarePosts: 2,171
    edited April 23
    Vrika said:
    ikcin said:

    Furthermore, while all games share the same type of game theory designs and overall abilities and such, LoL and WoW aren't the same, though. MOBAs are a different genre than RPGs. 
    Really so all these classes which are the core of LoL are not RPG? An average MMORPG has how many classes? 4, 8, 20 maybe. LoL has 100. It has more RP than any MMORPG. And every class has story, lore, videos, tactics, sets, customization. How that is not RP? Mobas are not about VR and living in the game, as the games are much shorter. This is the only major difference among LoL and WoW. Deal with the facts, could you?
    How did we end up discussing about definition of RPG?

    Anyway far as computer games go, RPGs are normally games that focus on
     1. long-term character development, and
     2. either playing through a story or living in a world as its inhabitant

    It's not a strict definition and there are many different types of games that are called an RPG, but LoL is not classified as an RPG because it's quite far from what computer RPGs normally are and it fits much better to MOBA category (multiplayer online battle arena).
    Your idea of RPG is a nonsense. RPG is any game where you can play a role. And MOBA could be RPG, in fact usually it is, as the core of the most battle arenas are the separated roles of the players in the team. So usually the games like LoL are very good RPGs. As I pointed above the main difference with solo RPGs and MMORPGs is the duration of the game. So MOBAs offer a poor VR - living in the world. But VR and game are two very different things. 

    And that is related with the topic here. EQ and WoW are not great games, but they offered very good VR for the time they have been released. Obviously Kevyne-Shandris does not play WoW, he lives in WoW. Still the question for L2 and EVE is open. Would with the same advertisement L2 and EVE become as big or even bigger than WoW? As L2 offered better VR. And EVE is VR focused. 
  • VrikaVrika Member EpicPosts: 5,408
    ikcin said:
    Vrika said:
    ikcin said:

    Furthermore, while all games share the same type of game theory designs and overall abilities and such, LoL and WoW aren't the same, though. MOBAs are a different genre than RPGs. 
    Really so all these classes which are the core of LoL are not RPG? An average MMORPG has how many classes? 4, 8, 20 maybe. LoL has 100. It has more RP than any MMORPG. And every class has story, lore, videos, tactics, sets, customization. How that is not RP? Mobas are not about VR and living in the game, as the games are much shorter. This is the only major difference among LoL and WoW. Deal with the facts, could you?
    How did we end up discussing about definition of RPG?

    Anyway far as computer games go, RPGs are normally games that focus on
     1. long-term character development, and
     2. either playing through a story or living in a world as its inhabitant

    It's not a strict definition and there are many different types of games that are called an RPG, but LoL is not classified as an RPG because it's quite far from what computer RPGs normally are and it fits much better to MOBA category (multiplayer online battle arena).
    Your idea of RPG is a nonsense. RPG is any game where you can play a role. And MOBA could be RPG, in fact usually it is, as the core of the most battle arenas are the separated roles of the players in the team. So usually the games like LoL are very good RPGs. As I pointed above the main difference with solo RPGs and MMORPGs is the duration of the game. So MOBAs offer a poor VR - living in the world. But VR and game are two very different things. 

    And that is related with the topic here. EQ and WoW are not great games, but they offered very good VR for the time they have been released. Obviously Kevyne-Shandris does not play WoW, he lives in WoW. Still the question for L2 and EVE is open. Would with the same advertisement L2 and EVE become as big or even bigger than WoW? As L2 offered better VR. And EVE is VR focused. 
    As far as playing the role goes, RPG is about taking a role of a character in the world, not about taking a role in a team.

    Someone taking a role in MOBA's team isn't playing an RPG any more than a goalkeeper in soccer is playing RPG.
    KyleranVermillion_Raventhalbcbully
     
  • delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 5,506
    nyxium said:
    Blizz are about to launch their own biggest competitor, WoW Classic. Which I think will ironically kill off WoW: BFA into a death spiral of empty ghost town servers with swollen populated Classic servers.
    Very interesting thought.  Classic could possibility go in a direction that no one could be expecting.  I hope so, not for spite but to make REAL expansions added to it.

    And if the above were true Blizzard would be in a tail spin to make it happen for it's own survival.

    The quickest way in an emergency would be to add Burning Crusades to it.  I hope not, I would like to see totally new vanilla style content.  Also with Blizzard being good at keeping secrets it could already be in the making :)
    Galadourn
  • ikcinikcin Member RarePosts: 2,171
    Vrika said:
    ikcin said:
    Vrika said:
    ikcin said:

    Furthermore, while all games share the same type of game theory designs and overall abilities and such, LoL and WoW aren't the same, though. MOBAs are a different genre than RPGs. 
    Really so all these classes which are the core of LoL are not RPG? An average MMORPG has how many classes? 4, 8, 20 maybe. LoL has 100. It has more RP than any MMORPG. And every class has story, lore, videos, tactics, sets, customization. How that is not RP? Mobas are not about VR and living in the game, as the games are much shorter. This is the only major difference among LoL and WoW. Deal with the facts, could you?
    How did we end up discussing about definition of RPG?

    Anyway far as computer games go, RPGs are normally games that focus on
     1. long-term character development, and
     2. either playing through a story or living in a world as its inhabitant

    It's not a strict definition and there are many different types of games that are called an RPG, but LoL is not classified as an RPG because it's quite far from what computer RPGs normally are and it fits much better to MOBA category (multiplayer online battle arena).
    Your idea of RPG is a nonsense. RPG is any game where you can play a role. And MOBA could be RPG, in fact usually it is, as the core of the most battle arenas are the separated roles of the players in the team. So usually the games like LoL are very good RPGs. As I pointed above the main difference with solo RPGs and MMORPGs is the duration of the game. So MOBAs offer a poor VR - living in the world. But VR and game are two very different things. 

    And that is related with the topic here. EQ and WoW are not great games, but they offered very good VR for the time they have been released. Obviously Kevyne-Shandris does not play WoW, he lives in WoW. Still the question for L2 and EVE is open. Would with the same advertisement L2 and EVE become as big or even bigger than WoW? As L2 offered better VR. And EVE is VR focused. 
    As far as playing the role goes, RPG is about taking a role of a character in the world, not about taking a role in a team.

    Someone taking a role in MOBA's team isn't playing an RPG any more than a goalkeeper in soccer is playing RPG.
    This is even bigger nonsense. So the holy trinity automatically removes the RPG from the MMOs? Or maybe RPG is only if your character is green? Why not, if we invent new rules. You are wrong, admit it, and stop pointless arguing. The heroes in LoL have all the RPG elements - lore, quests, story, personal story. And in fact you can play as you want, the team role is by your choice. Can you play with tank in the jungle? Of course you can. You decide how to play, where to play, with what build and set to play, what skills to use, how your character will look. Well LoL has 100 millions of players, while WoW has 5, maybe, and never had more than 8 - the active ones. I understand that if you are a fan of WoW or the MMORPGs in general that sounds frustrating. Deal with the facts. Mobas are not so different form MMORPGs. The only real difference is the duration of the game. In fact LoL has more lore, stories, skins and character customization than most MMORPGs. To say - it is not RPG, is a total and obvious nonsense. And to claim RPG must be singleplayer is even more stupid.
    Kyleranbcbully
  • DarkswormDarksworm Member RarePosts: 921
    edited May 8

    First some back round (if not skip to bottom),

    Lots of arguing about Blizzard, then I realized the argument is true, EVERYTHING is really about Blizzard.  Have you ever noticed if a poster mentions World of Warcraft everyone jumps in and has something to say ?......Good bad or indifferent…. It's always the most Hot Topic. Theirs a reason for that. 

    Blizzard is in control ! 

    Here's how everything mmoprg went down:

    It didn't start with World of Warcraft, but Blizzard "completely" shaped the market into what it is today. Since 2004 every Western mmorpg is World of Warcraft being just shy of copyrights and trademarks. 

    Blizzard on it's own decided on Family friendly easy, cross realm everything, pretty cosmetic cash shop items the list goes on. They didn't invent everything, Asian developers did most of the work. Blizzard "forced it" to be the standard here in the west…. All followed.

     

    It's a fact, as of late mmorpg's are not popular in gamming as they once were….It's Blizzards fault !!  


    Here is EXACTLY why:

    mmorpg's by themselves are "Dull and Lifeless".  Everyone of them from Ultima Online, EverQuest, Vanilla World of Warcraft, Vanguard, more recent Final Fantasy 14 and Elder Scrolls Online, EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM. 

    But if you take the "Dull and Lifeless" game and add community it's 100% different, one hundred and eighty degrees different !! 

    Community was the hallmark in the very early days.  It was the spark of something new, it was the twinkle in one's eye.  Classic Vanilla World of Warcraft came along and totally enhanced the early version and became #1

     

    Ok so what happened ?

    Blizzard CHANGED DIRECTION and all others followed down the rabbit hole.  They invented the solo experience with easy family and extremely accessible Looking for group tool. 

    Important:

    Being king, it was a mistake Blizzard could afford however they went from 11 million to 6 million.  And they refuse to embrace the cause….. Others following their formula and brought mmorpg's to a "dull and Lifeless" state of solo.  Do people still play mmorpg's ?.... Sure you'll have that when we have 7.5 Billion people on this planet. 


    By lucky coincidence, Blizzard was able to make unfortunate mistakes, cause it's competitors to follow, yet they them selfs were able to recover..... Blizzard is actually that strong ! 

    Disagree.  The market was formed and they recruited the competitions' best customers to advise them.  They won the MMORPG market due to that.  Also, Blizzard prioritizes polish, which is something the developers of games like EQ2, Vanguard, Age of Conan, Warhammer Online, etc. absolutely did not do.

    They also develop tight, efficient code without an overemphasis on "realistic" graphics.  This ensures their games run on the widest possible machine configurations - which means their viable market potential was very high.

    Blizzard won in the first year of WoW, when companies like SOE failed to provide an alternative as good.  After that, it was all momentum - and online communities are slaves to numbers.  WoW was the biggest game, which is the primary driver that fueled its growth.  No one wants to play a dead game, or something so niche that it can cease to exist and wipe thousands of hours of your life away with it in short order (many hyped up MMORPGs barely lasted in this market).

    This "obsession" with "WoW" clones completely misses the point, and developers who tried to clone WoW completely missed the point.  WoW is WoW, and WoW was able to do what WoW did due to the specific market conditions surrounding its release.  You cannot clone WoW to compete with WoW.

    WoW is not EQ, EQ2, DAoC, UO, or any of those games that were on the market when it burst onto the scene; so trying to beat it at its own game isn't going to work.  It has already captured most of the market which wants "that game."

    I wouldn't bother with any "WoW Clone" when I could just go resub to WoW.  It still has millions of players.
    Jean-Luc_PicardKyleranCoorslite
  • nyxiumnyxium Member UncommonPosts: 1,266
    nyxium said:
    Blizz are about to launch their own biggest competitor, WoW Classic. Which I think will ironically kill off WoW: BFA into a death spiral of empty ghost town servers with swollen populated Classic servers.
    Very interesting thought.  Classic could possibility go in a direction that no one could be expecting.  I hope so, not for spite but to make REAL expansions added to it.

    And if the above were true Blizzard would be in a tail spin to make it happen for it's own survival.

    The quickest way in an emergency would be to add Burning Crusades to it.  I hope not, I would like to see totally new vanilla style content.  Also with Blizzard being good at keeping secrets it could already be in the making :)
    Oh yes, it's popcorn time.

    image
  • GaladournGaladourn Member RarePosts: 1,734
    edited May 9
    nyxium said:
    Blizz are about to launch their own biggest competitor, WoW Classic. Which I think will ironically kill off WoW: BFA into a death spiral of empty ghost town servers with swollen populated Classic servers.
    Very interesting thought.  Classic could possibility go in a direction that no one could be expecting.  I hope so, not for spite but to make REAL expansions added to it.

    And if the above were true Blizzard would be in a tail spin to make it happen for it's own survival.

    The quickest way in an emergency would be to add Burning Crusades to it.  I hope not, I would like to see totally new vanilla style content.  Also with Blizzard being good at keeping secrets it could already be in the making :)
    They could add all the raids of TBC to Vanilla (adjusting them to fit the 1.12 game mechanics). While this would demand some serious work for balancing and adjustment, it's nowhere near as demanding as designing and programming new content from scratch.

    That was the very early plan of the WoW team, the Black Temple, Kharazhan, Caverns of Time, etc. were intended to launch in the original game but were pushed to the backburner due to time constraints. These could be made into excellent level 60 raids/dungeons for Classic, without affecting anything else in the world design and game experience.

    EDIT:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-HFjHKJJ7E

    After Naxx the progression would be Karazhan>Black Morass (Caverns of Time)>Dark Portal (Outland)
    Post edited by Galadourn on
    KyleranCoorslite

  • sipusipu Member UncommonPosts: 169
    edited May 8
    Galadourn said:
    nyxium said:
    Blizz are about to launch their own biggest competitor, WoW Classic. Which I think will ironically kill off WoW: BFA into a death spiral of empty ghost town servers with swollen populated Classic servers.
    Very interesting thought.  Classic could possibility go in a direction that no one could be expecting.  I hope so, not for spite but to make REAL expansions added to it.

    And if the above were true Blizzard would be in a tail spin to make it happen for it's own survival.

    The quickest way in an emergency would be to add Burning Crusades to it.  I hope not, I would like to see totally new vanilla style content.  Also with Blizzard being good at keeping secrets it could already be in the making :)
    They could add all the raids of TBC to Vanilla (adjusting them to fit the 1.12 game mechanics). While this would demand some serious work for balancing and adjustment, it's nowhere near as demanding as designing and programming new content from scratch.

    That was the very early plan of the WoW team, the Black Temple, Kharazhan, Caverns of Time, etc. were intended to launch in the original game but were pushed to the backburner due to time constraints. These could be made into excellent level 60 raids/dungeons for Classic, without affecting anything else in the world design and game experience.
    Classic means: "as it was" not "as it would be". At least this is what the vanilla audience wanted, not a hybrid of classic and other expansions.
  • GaladournGaladourn Member RarePosts: 1,734
    And thus it will launch. What we are discussing here is what is probable to happen a few years down the road.

  • delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 5,506
    Darksworm said:

    First some back round (if not skip to bottom),

    Lots of arguing about Blizzard, then I realized the argument is true, EVERYTHING is really about Blizzard.  Have you ever noticed if a poster mentions World of Warcraft everyone jumps in and has something to say ?......Good bad or indifferent…. It's always the most Hot Topic. Theirs a reason for that. 

    Blizzard is in control ! 

    Here's how everything mmoprg went down:

    It didn't start with World of Warcraft, but Blizzard "completely" shaped the market into what it is today. Since 2004 every Western mmorpg is World of Warcraft being just shy of copyrights and trademarks. 

    Blizzard on it's own decided on Family friendly easy, cross realm everything, pretty cosmetic cash shop items the list goes on. They didn't invent everything, Asian developers did most of the work. Blizzard "forced it" to be the standard here in the west…. All followed.

     

    It's a fact, as of late mmorpg's are not popular in gamming as they once were….It's Blizzards fault !!  


    Here is EXACTLY why:

    mmorpg's by themselves are "Dull and Lifeless".  Everyone of them from Ultima Online, EverQuest, Vanilla World of Warcraft, Vanguard, more recent Final Fantasy 14 and Elder Scrolls Online, EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM. 

    But if you take the "Dull and Lifeless" game and add community it's 100% different, one hundred and eighty degrees different !! 

    Community was the hallmark in the very early days.  It was the spark of something new, it was the twinkle in one's eye.  Classic Vanilla World of Warcraft came along and totally enhanced the early version and became #1

     

    Ok so what happened ?

    Blizzard CHANGED DIRECTION and all others followed down the rabbit hole.  They invented the solo experience with easy family and extremely accessible Looking for group tool. 

    Important:

    Being king, it was a mistake Blizzard could afford however they went from 11 million to 6 million.  And they refuse to embrace the cause….. Others following their formula and brought mmorpg's to a "dull and Lifeless" state of solo.  Do people still play mmorpg's ?.... Sure you'll have that when we have 7.5 Billion people on this planet. 


    By lucky coincidence, Blizzard was able to make unfortunate mistakes, cause it's competitors to follow, yet they them selfs were able to recover..... Blizzard is actually that strong ! 

    Disagree.  The market was formed and they recruited the competitions' best customers to advise them.  They won the MMORPG market due to that.  Also, Blizzard prioritizes polish, which is something the developers of games like EQ2, Vanguard, Age of Conan, Warhammer Online, etc. absolutely did not do.

    They also develop tight, efficient code without an overemphasis on "realistic" graphics.  This ensures their games run on the widest possible machine configurations - which means their viable market potential was very high.

    Blizzard won in the first year of WoW, when companies like SOE failed to provide an alternative as good.  After that, it was all momentum - and online communities are slaves to numbers.  WoW was the biggest game, which is the primary driver that fueled its growth.  No one wants to play a dead game, or something so niche that it can cease to exist and wipe thousands of hours of your life away with it in short order (many hyped up MMORPGs barely lasted in this market).

    This "obsession" with "WoW" clones completely misses the point, and developers who tried to clone WoW completely missed the point.  WoW is WoW, and WoW was able to do what WoW did due to the specific market conditions surrounding its release.  You cannot clone WoW to compete with WoW.

    WoW is not EQ, EQ2, DAoC, UO, or any of those games that were on the market when it burst onto the scene; so trying to beat it at its own game isn't going to work.  It has already captured most of the market which wants "that game."

    I wouldn't bother with any "WoW Clone" when I could just go resub to WoW.  It still has millions of players.
    You say "disagree" 
    But it seems you "agree"

    How's that ?
    -First you talk about Wow's polish over it's former mmorpg's, making its the strongest. 

    -Then you talk about the obsession with others cloning WoW, making everyone follow.

    -Then you wouldn't bother with a clone of the mistakes.

    -Last you would still play WoW, because their so strong and able to recover from the mistakes.


    To me you make it seem you wouldn't follow WoW's mistakes that were added to other mmorpg's and not play them...... Sounds like you agree.
  • AdamantineAdamantine Member RarePosts: 4,182
    AFAIK WoW still doesnt have bards, still doesnt have housing.

    The main reason why WoW won was because they had low hardware requirements at a time when everybody else had high hardware requirements.

    The other was that they watered the game down so hard that after a time even people with an one digit age could successfully play it.

    There might be more, sure. But those have been the two main factors why the game could gain over 10 million players.

    Other than that, they've been pretty lazy. They didnt reinvest much of all their income into the game (no bards, no housing, very few expansions), nor did they invest that money into making good new games either. In fact ever since WoW Blizzard hasnt been doing much at all.

    Kyleran
    Please set a sig so I can read your posting even if somebody "agreed" etc with it. Thanks.
  • delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 5,506
    AFAIK WoW still doesnt have bards, still doesnt have housing.

    The main reason why WoW won was because they had low hardware requirements at a time when everybody else had high hardware requirements.

    The other was that they watered the game down so hard that after a time even people with an one digit age could successfully play it.

    There might be more, sure. But those have been the two main factors why the game could gain over 10 million players.

    Other than that, they've been pretty lazy. They didnt reinvest much of all their income into the game (no bards, no housing, very few expansions), nor did they invest that money into making good new games either. In fact ever since WoW Blizzard hasnt been doing much at all.

    Watered down as compared to first generation mmorpgs, YES, 

    Now with this, watered down percentage is always arguable. 

    My opinion Vanilla was watered down to a very smart level, where abilities and their timing mattered.  You also had to pick your fight and think about what your doing.  Slip up's were definitely costly no matter who you are.  You can play safe or dangerous depending on your choice, again no matter who you are, you could find hard challenge.

    THIS was a key point in making WoW excel above the rest.   



    Now going to capture the 5 year olds like retail now was a huge mistake, they lost a lot !
    Again other games followed down the rabbit hole and this was a competitors mistake. WoW can afford mistakes, their #1
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 32,480
    edited May 9

    Other than that, they've been pretty lazy. They didnt reinvest much of all their income into the game (no bards, no housing, very few expansions), nor did they invest that money into making good new] games either. In fact ever since WoW Blizzard hasnt been doing much at all.

    Wait, wut? Hearthstone, Heroes of the Storm, Overwatch, featured in not one, but two Southpark episodes, released a movie loved in China, launching a successful eSport league where owners are building $50M arenas isn't doing much? 

    Well I suppose they did fail to resolve world hunger so I'll grant you that.

    No Bards I might agree as lazy, (probably is "Fancy's fault) but housing sux so am glad to see that idea killed off. Must be a Barbie simulator out there somewhere for such nonsense :D

    Few expansions....did you really want to pay Blizzard $60 every six months since 2004? Oh, you expected it for free.....I see.

    BTW, I dislike all things Blizzard, haven't purchased a product of theirs in many years, but I have to acknowledge their great success, even if it's from delivering games I don't like.

    Cheers



    Sovrath

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • ikcinikcin Member RarePosts: 2,171
    Now I play Albion and I noticed something - some of the new players, when they face the open world PvP, they are in shock. They ask where are the quests. Why other players could kill them. They do not understand the risk/reward ratio and the risk in general.

    So what WoW did? Lineage 2 was obviously better MMO. But WoW gave to the players a game much closer to Warcraft and Diablo. So all these guys who just got the internet then, found a game they understood. A game that was not very different from their solo games, but with multiplayer elements that made it much more immersive.  
    Coorslite
  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 26,209
    ikcin said:
    Now I play Albion and I noticed something - some of the new players, when they face the open world PvP, they are in shock. They ask where are the quests. Why other players could kill them. They do not understand the risk/reward ratio and the risk in general.

    So what WoW did? Lineage 2 was obviously better MMO. But WoW gave to the players a game much closer to Warcraft and Diablo. So all these guys who just got the internet then, found a game they understood. A game that was not very different from their solo games, but with multiplayer elements that made it much more immersive.  
    "My" thought is they didn't do their research and they shouldn't have purchased until they understood what they were getting into.


    KyleranTorval



  • Panther2103Panther2103 Member EpicPosts: 5,034
    Blizzard did get lucky with the timing, but it's always a game of chance when you launch. Nobody expected LoL to do as well as it did, it just happened to water down the MOBA formula more than Heroes of Newerth and the original Dota did. Nobody expected Fortnite to do as well as it did with the BR mode, but here we are. 

    It's a mix of luck and finding the right amount of accessibility in a genre. With WoW they made it just accessible enough (at the time, now it's a different story) that people who were into the genre could get friends to try it, and people who just liked Warcraft gave it a try. That was enough to shoot it into the spotlight, and caused TONS of people to try a genre that was thought of as niche prior. 
  • OldSchoolGamerOldSchoolGamer Member UncommonPosts: 189
    PsYcHoGBR said:
    Wow is no longer "King of the hill". ESO and FF14 have taken that crown.
    You are clueless.  WoW, by itself, did over a BILLION dollars the last fiscal year.  Blizzard did over $2 Billion as a company.  Activision/Blizzard which owns Blizzard did over $4 Billion.  Understand, that means Blizzard did more than Activision/Blizzard's six other companies combined.  ESO and FF14 don't do that much revenue annually combined.  The only way Blizzard will no longer be "king of the hill" is if they get out of the MMORPG space, period.  It's been said over and over, yet some people just don't get it.  The only thing that can kill WoW is Blizzard itself.
    Kyleran
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 32,480
    PsYcHoGBR said:
    Wow is no longer "King of the hill". ESO and FF14 have taken that crown.
    You are clueless.  WoW, by itself, did over a BILLION dollars the last fiscal year.  Blizzard did over $2 Billion as a company.  Activision/Blizzard which owns Blizzard did over $4 Billion.  Understand, that means Blizzard did more than Activision/Blizzard's six other companies combined.  ESO and FF14 don't do that much revenue annually combined.  The only way Blizzard will no longer be "king of the hill" is if they get out of the MMORPG space, period.  It's been said over and over, yet some people just don't get it.  The only thing that can kill WoW is Blizzard itself.
    To which they've been hard at work for years now trying to do.

    ;)
    Coorslite

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    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

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  • centkincentkin Member RarePosts: 1,400
    edited May 9
    Myrdynn said:
    eq2 as a game was far superior.  Its too bad WOW destroyed prelaunch


    Actually WoW had a horrendous launch -- Getting it to PLAY at the beginning was really frustrating.  This potentially left an opening for EQ2 BUT...

    The EQ2 people remember as a "far superior" game was not the immediate launch version.  The version where you had that stiff death penalty and after the starter zones encountered almost every mob was a ++ group mob that you could barely kill (for great exp if you could do it though) solo if it was the lowest level to give exp. 

    When EQ2 launched it actually was a true grouping game where you really couldn't do much solo.

    It ratcheted things back QUICKLY -- first changing the death penalty then completely reworking on the spur of the moment the monsters across the worldmaps to be solo friendly.

    They went too far of course (cough newbie island), but WoW doing well and EQ2 not was what kicked them in the nuts and forced them to rework things or die.  Problem was by the time they reworked things it was too late and they were doomed to be the also-ran. 

    Had they released with the version they had like 3 months or so after launch, things may have been very different.

    ---

    Then again Ultima Online 2 dropping out of the mix was another big enabler for both games.
  • HorusraHorusra Member EpicPosts: 4,032
    centkin said:
    Myrdynn said:
    eq2 as a game was far superior.  Its too bad WOW destroyed prelaunch


    Actually WoW had a horrendous launch -- Getting it to PLAY at the beginning was really frustrating.  This potentially left an opening for EQ2 BUT...

    The EQ2 people remember as a "far superior" game was not the immediate launch version.  The version where you had that stiff death penalty and after the starter zones encountered almost every mob was a ++ group mob that you could barely kill (for great exp if you could do it though) solo if it was the lowest level to give exp. 

    When EQ2 launched it actually was a true grouping game where you really couldn't do much solo.

    It ratcheted things back QUICKLY -- first changing the death penalty then completely reworking on the spur of the moment the monsters across the worldmaps to be solo friendly.

    They went too far of course (cough newbie island), but WoW doing well and EQ2 not was what kicked them in the nuts and forced them to rework things or die.  Problem was by the time they reworked things it was too late and they were doomed to be the also-ran. 

    Had they released with the version they had like 3 months or so after launch, things may have been very different.

    ---

    Then again Ultima Online 2 dropping out of the mix was another big enabler for both games.
    EQ2 tech side killed them no matter what.  Game ran like crap.
    laserit
  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 6,054
    Horusra said:
    centkin said:
    Myrdynn said:
    eq2 as a game was far superior.  Its too bad WOW destroyed prelaunch


    Actually WoW had a horrendous launch -- Getting it to PLAY at the beginning was really frustrating.  This potentially left an opening for EQ2 BUT...

    The EQ2 people remember as a "far superior" game was not the immediate launch version.  The version where you had that stiff death penalty and after the starter zones encountered almost every mob was a ++ group mob that you could barely kill (for great exp if you could do it though) solo if it was the lowest level to give exp. 

    When EQ2 launched it actually was a true grouping game where you really couldn't do much solo.

    It ratcheted things back QUICKLY -- first changing the death penalty then completely reworking on the spur of the moment the monsters across the worldmaps to be solo friendly.

    They went too far of course (cough newbie island), but WoW doing well and EQ2 not was what kicked them in the nuts and forced them to rework things or die.  Problem was by the time they reworked things it was too late and they were doomed to be the also-ran. 

    Had they released with the version they had like 3 months or so after launch, things may have been very different.

    ---

    Then again Ultima Online 2 dropping out of the mix was another big enabler for both games.
    EQ2 tech side killed them no matter what.  Game ran like crap.
    Agreed

    If memory serves me right, they rushed it out the door so it would release before WoW

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • ikcinikcin Member RarePosts: 2,171
    You are clueless.  WoW, by itself, did over a BILLION dollars the last fiscal year. 
    This is simply not true.
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