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Blizzard killed off it's competitors by lucky coincidence.

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Comments

  • TEKK3NTEKK3N Member RarePosts: 853
    I think you are all too harsh with Delete.
    He actually makes good points, if you can get through his awful way to express himself.
    Most times I do find it difficult to understand what his point is, but eventually I do get it, and most times I have to say, I agree with him.

    When he says that MMORPGs at their core are pretty dull games, and what makes them stand out from other games is the social aspect, he is not saying anything outrageous.

    Blizzard made MMORPGs less dull by adding aspects from Single Player games, but at the same time they killed what made MMORPGs so different from other games, the Social aspect.
    Basically Blizzard killed MMORPGs selling point, if you take out the Social element, MMORPGs are pretty average games at best.

    Unfortunately everyone else followed Blizzard mistake thinking they were on a winning, but it wasn't the right path to follow.
    WoW survived because Blizzard, fans gave them always the benefit of the doubt thinking the next Expansion would put things right, but that never really happened, and now finally even the fanboys are turning their back on WOW.
    CryomatrixikcinVermillion_RaventhalBruceYee
  • ikcinikcin Member RarePosts: 2,206
    edited April 22

    Furthermore, while all games share the same type of game theory designs and overall abilities and such, LoL and WoW aren't the same, though. MOBAs are a different genre than RPGs. 
    Really so all these classes which are the core of LoL are not RPG? An average MMORPG has how many classes? 4, 8, 20 maybe. LoL has 100. It has more RP than any MMORPG. And every class has story, lore, videos, tactics, sets, customization. How that is not RP? Mobas are not about VR and living in the game, as the games are much shorter. This is the only major difference among LoL and WoW. Deal with the facts, could you?
  • AmatheAmathe Member LegendaryPosts: 6,208
    edited April 22
    15 years after WoW released, OP reports that it had a transformative effect on the mmorpg landscape. Good eye.
    Hatefulljimmywolf

    EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests

  • HashbrickHashbrick Member RarePosts: 1,851
    Did you forget your meds again?
    Hatefull
    [[ DEAD ]] - Funny - I deleted my account on the site using the cancel account button.  Forum user is separate and still exists with no way of deleting it. Delete it admins. Do it, this ends now.
  • ikcinikcin Member RarePosts: 2,206
    edited April 22
    AAAMEOW said:
    I think blizzard is just giving people what they want.  At least what people say on the wow forum.  

    It's like people on this forum mocking GW2 for being too easy.  While on GW2 forum people complain that the content(first expansion) is too hard.

    I also heard opposite on many topic like fast travel on this forum.  While on the actually game forum people argue the other way.

    Obviously different game have different target audience.  So reaction may differ.
    No, what Blizzard is doing is to convince people what they want trough advertisement and marketing, and then to sell it. Apple was doing the same when Jobs was in charge. So they convince you why their product is great, and why you need it, and then they deliver what they promised. Do you really need that product? Is it the best? Probably no. 
    Post edited by ikcin on
  • HatefullHatefull Member EpicPosts: 2,238
    edited April 22
    H0urg1ass said:
    Blizzard didn't invent anything new, but what they did do was come along and refine everyone else's ideas into their most appealing aspect.

    They didn't invent the MMO, but they made it far more accessible to the average player.

    It wasn't luck at all.  They looked at each genre and said "How do we take this style of game and make it so that everyone in the house will want to play it."

    They did it exceptionally well.  I know 60 year old people who play WoW, I know 12 year old people who play WoW.  I know 60 year old people who play Diablo, I know 12 year old people who play Diablo.  I even know 60 year old people who play Overwatch, using support classes, and I know 12 year old people who play Overwatch.

    They worked diligently towards universal appeal and mostly succeeded in almost every genre they tried.

    The community developed organically after the game showed appeal.
    Thanks, you saved me some typing.

    Blizzard saw what was working in other games, took those ideas, polished them a little bit, wrapped it all in a nice shiny very colorful package, and made billions. This isn't my idea, nor is it made up, it is exactly what Blizzard said in a post-release interview. Every other studio just wanted a slice of that cake.

    It's pretty simple and has been discussed to death. Nothing new here at all.


    DMKano said:
    Viper482 said:
    Just going off the subject title.....and this shows how competition is healthy. Because Blizzard destroyed the MMO....imo.


    Blizzard is given far too much credit for the entire MMO genre which existed 5 years before WoW.

    MMORPGs petered out all by themselves by staying the same old core gameplay for the last 20 years. 

    Deliver X, collect Y, kill 50 Z... all done back in 1999 and still the same in 2019.

    Players just moved on from the same old crap... this isnt Blizzards fault - it's the entire industry failing to keep the genre new and fresh.


    WoW may not have been what started it all, but it is most definitely what brought the genre into the living room and made it popular with people from 8 to 80...ish.
    jimmywolf

    If you want a new idea, go read an old book.

  • HashbrickHashbrick Member RarePosts: 1,851
    H0urg1ass said:
    Blizzard didn't invent anything new, but what they did do was come along and refine everyone else's ideas into their most appealing aspect.

    They didn't invent the MMO, but they made it far more accessible to the average player.

    It wasn't luck at all.  They looked at each genre and said "How do we take this style of game and make it so that everyone in the house will want to play it."

    They did it exceptionally well.  I know 60 year old people who play WoW, I know 12 year old people who play WoW.  I know 60 year old people who play Diablo, I know 12 year old people who play Diablo.  I even know 60 year old people who play Overwatch, using support classes, and I know 12 year old people who play Overwatch.

    They worked diligently towards universal appeal and mostly succeeded in almost every genre they tried.

    The community developed organically after the game showed appeal.
    So your Grandpa/Grandma and cousin play.  Guess Blizzard really missed out on the 13-59yr old demographic there.
    [[ DEAD ]] - Funny - I deleted my account on the site using the cancel account button.  Forum user is separate and still exists with no way of deleting it. Delete it admins. Do it, this ends now.
  • TheocritusTheocritus Member EpicPosts: 7,099
    No. Most MMOs are copies of Everquest. EQ2 came out before WoW and did all those same things as well. WoW was just more polished and had a bigger IP. WoW didnt do anything new. It was just a new skin and easier to get into.  Vanilla WoW was grindy like every other game, had hardcore endgame that less than 5% of players ever played.
    You obviously didn't play EQ2 at release....It was a hardcore game...They completely revamped it after WoW came out and crushed it....In a panic move, they basically Wowified EQ2 to try and compete.
    ikcinmmolouKyleranHatefulllahnmirMendelCoorslite
  • AmatheAmathe Member LegendaryPosts: 6,208
    edited April 22
    AAAMEOW said:

    I believe someone mention there are list of 600 mmorpg now. 
    That is because everything these days is considered by some to be a mmorpg.

    If I order a pizza it's Pepperoni RPG Online.
    Post edited by Amathe on
    KyleranHatefullCoorslite

    EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests

  • cheyanecheyane Member EpicPosts: 6,432
    No. Most MMOs are copies of Everquest. EQ2 came out before WoW and did all those same things as well. WoW was just more polished and had a bigger IP. WoW didnt do anything new. It was just a new skin and easier to get into.  Vanilla WoW was grindy like every other game, had hardcore endgame that less than 5% of players ever played.
    You obviously didn't play EQ2 at release....It was a hardcore game...They completely revamped it after WoW came out and crushed it....In a panic move, they basically Wowified EQ2 to try and compete.
    It was really dumb what they did trying to run after the success of WoW and completely destroyed what made Everquest 2 unique. In my opinion it was the better game but not after they wowified it though.
    Hatefullmmolou
    image
  • Jamar870Jamar870 Member UncommonPosts: 390
    Question: Did they lose players after WoW came out? Were they unable to recover those subs and thus proceed to imitate WoW in an attempt to regain them?

  • ikcinikcin Member RarePosts: 2,206
    Jamar870 said:
    Question: Did they lose players after WoW came out? Were they unable to recover those subs and thus proceed to imitate WoW in an attempt to regain them?
    You do not understand how the competition works. It does not need they to lose players. If they grow slower than WoW is enough. And often the publishers prefer to blame the content, as to change the content is cheaper, than to pay for mass advertisement. At that particular time, Blizzard marketing was very aggressive. Also much more people played Warcraft 3 than EQ, so it was easy step to conquer the market.
  • JeffSpicoliJeffSpicoli Member EpicPosts: 2,849
    I still can't tell if Delete5230 is a masterful troll or a rambling madman


    HatefullCoorslite
    • Aloha Mr Hand ! 

  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 34,577
    I still can't tell if Delete5230 is a masterful troll or a rambling madman


    Probably just a case of dumb "luck."

    ;)
    HatefullimmodiumCoorslite

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • Kevyne-ShandrisKevyne-Shandris Member UncommonPosts: 2,077
    ikcin said:

    Furthermore, while all games share the same type of game theory designs and overall abilities and such, LoL and WoW aren't the same, though. MOBAs are a different genre than RPGs. 
    Really so all these classes which are the core of LoL are not RPG? An average MMORPG has how many classes? 4, 8, 20 maybe. LoL has 100. It has more RP than any MMORPG. And every class has story, lore, videos, tactics, sets, customization. How that is not RP? Mobas are not about VR and living in the game, as the games are much shorter. This is the only major difference among LoL and WoW. Deal with the facts, could you?
    They are not user created characters with their own stories. They are premades you choose, not create yourself and name yourself, and assume some identity with. Much like FPS games, you grab a premade as your toon in MOBAs.

    RPGs you create and customize your toon, as s/he's your hero. How you play it is upto your taste. Not some premade weapon you pick up and run off with.
  • delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 5,957
    Kyleran said:
    I still can't tell if Delete5230 is a masterful troll or a rambling madman


    Probably just a case of dumb "luck."

    ;)
    Or just play the safe spot on the fence so everyone loves you here and contribute nothing.
  • Kevyne-ShandrisKevyne-Shandris Member UncommonPosts: 2,077
    edited April 23
    cheyane said:
    No. Most MMOs are copies of Everquest. EQ2 came out before WoW and did all those same things as well. WoW was just more polished and had a bigger IP. WoW didnt do anything new. It was just a new skin and easier to get into.  Vanilla WoW was grindy like every other game, had hardcore endgame that less than 5% of players ever played.
    You obviously didn't play EQ2 at release....It was a hardcore game...They completely revamped it after WoW came out and crushed it....In a panic move, they basically Wowified EQ2 to try and compete.
    It was really dumb what they did trying to run after the success of WoW and completely destroyed what made Everquest 2 unique. In my opinion it was the better game but not after they wowified it though.

    WoW was specifically designed to be easier than EQ2. Furor and company HATED the waits and all that, so they made a game that is more like a cross of a FPS game with a ARPG. They kept the bad stuff EQ/2 had (as even EQ/2 did away with ghostwalking, as the devs said it was purely a time gate mechanism), though.

    But the EQ/2 is plagued by how much WoW changed gaming itself. If it's not "WoW like" people won't play it. Years ago I returned to EvE and had a WTF moment, that they now had WoW and EQ/2 style levels. EvE is a skills game, not level game. 

    That's the disease video games face across gaming, to be unique FROM WoW.
  • Vermillion_RaventhalVermillion_Raventhal Member EpicPosts: 3,952
    WoW did have the perfect storm.  I think people take for granted how refreshing a good UI and good content was at the time.  Good IP,  polish, already online fan base, emergence with high speed internet, niche competition with poor mechanical game play and ect just launched WoW into stratosphere. .

    Quest hubs have been beat to death.  WoW's UI was the default MMORPG UI for years.  Every developer wanted the pie and post WoW player base dwarfs pre WoW by a lot.  So the perfect storm of emulation happened because most MMORPG players view themepark synonymous with MMORPG.


    ikcinCoorslite
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 34,577
    Kyleran said:
    I still can't tell if Delete5230 is a masterful troll or a rambling madman


    Probably just a case of dumb "luck."

    ;)
    Or just play the safe spot on the fence so everyone loves you here and contribute nothing.
    Naw, I mostly angle for the sardonic wit approach, coupled with a solid mix of cranky old curmudgeon and luddite. 

    Irony and puns are favorite tools with a light sprinkling of hyperbole when called for.

    Oh yes, my opinions? Definitely facts, no matter what others try to say otherwise.

    ;)

    Pro tip, best to never take me serious, few do.


    Hatefull

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • HatefullHatefull Member EpicPosts: 2,238
    Kyleran said:
    I still can't tell if Delete5230 is a masterful troll or a rambling madman


    Probably just a case of dumb "luck."

    ;)
    Or just play the safe spot on the fence so everyone loves you here and contribute nothing.
    I don't love him, AND he contributes a lot. You're wrong, these are facts because I said them.

    Totally serious...Bro.

    If you want a new idea, go read an old book.

  • VrikaVrika Member EpicPosts: 5,932
    Jamar870 said:
    Question: Did they lose players after WoW came out? Were they unable to recover those subs and thus proceed to imitate WoW in an attempt to regain them?

    EQ 2 didn't necessarily lose subs, as much as WoW gained popularity with people who hadn't been interested in MMOs before, and EQ 2 saw their chance to get broader audience if only they were more WoW.

    EQ 2 would likely have been ok and made a small profit just being EQ 2, but business like SOE isn't happy with small profit if their competitors game is making ten times more.
    Kyleran
     
  • krgwynnekrgwynne Member UncommonPosts: 116
    if you play wow from back then and play eq2 from back then you can easily tell why wow was more popular there game play was just better this is just my opinion though but the numbers show it was the opinion of many.
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 34,577
    Vrika said:
    Jamar870 said:
    Question: Did they lose players after WoW came out? Were they unable to recover those subs and thus proceed to imitate WoW in an attempt to regain them?

    EQ 2 didn't necessarily lose subs, as much as WoW gained popularity with people who hadn't been interested in MMOs before, and EQ 2 saw their chance to get broader audience if only they were more WoW.

    EQ 2 would likely have been ok and made a small profit just being EQ 2, but business like SOE isn't happy with small profit if their competitors game is making ten times more.
    In the long run EQ2 might have been better served by remaining true to it's original designs.

    Once the shiny wore off of WOW some of the more old school style gamers would likely have been drawn back to EQ2, which they were of course, but what they found was more of the same instead of something which stood apart.

    Like you said, SOE didn't want to be 2nd fiddle, they revised / wrecked SWG for similar reasons.


    Coorslite

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 5,957
    WoW did have the perfect storm.  I think people take for granted how refreshing a good UI and good content was at the time.  Good IP,  polish, already online fan base, emergence with high speed internet, niche competition with poor mechanical game play and ect just launched WoW into stratosphere. .

    Quest hubs have been beat to death.  WoW's UI was the default MMORPG UI for years.  Every developer wanted the pie and post WoW player base dwarfs pre WoW by a lot.  So the perfect storm of emulation happened because most MMORPG players view themepark synonymous with MMORPG.


    Absolutely how it went down,  
    Like or hate the game doesn't matter the above is true and obviously better worded than I could ever do. 


    The bottom line of my point......when mistakes were made that lost a LOT of players, ALL other developers followed..... They gambled on everyone of the mistakes and everyone lost.

    Blizzard can afford mistakes being king.


    @Vermillion_Raventhal
    Sorry I used your post as a reference, it's just that you hit the nail on what made Blizzard powerful.  By using this should in no way reflect your on my side.  I understand your not. I wouldn't want anyone to be dragged down and be hated too.
    Kyleran
  • BruceYeeBruceYee Member RarePosts: 1,696
    I would like to be Brandon Stark for a few minutes to see how things could have been if WoW was never made. Would the classic MMO format still be the norm or would there be something else.

    SOE in the top spot was pretty bad though with their attitude toward their customers if you can remember that far back.

    No one can deny that WoW coming on the scene permanently changed the MMO genre but whether it was good or bad is a matter of opinion. What WoW did to the MMO genre may have contributed to the success of other games that received large numbers of WoW refugees.

    Think we'll have to settle for AA from now on but that's ok with me.
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