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Blizzard killed off it's competitors by lucky coincidence.

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Comments

  • HarafnirHarafnir Member UncommonPosts: 1,341
    I think I lost a few points of my IQ reading through that... Not many left, need to be more careful.
    Jean-Luc_PicardNyteWytchDMKanoCoorslite

    "This is not a game to be tossed aside lightly.
    It should be thrown with great force"

  • AAAMEOWAAAMEOW Member UncommonPosts: 859
    There are barely any mmorpg before wow.  The player base is also very small with a few successful mmorpg.

    I believe someone mention there are list of 600 mmorpg now.  Even if you neglect wow.  There are mmorpg like runescape which rumors have is doing really well.

  • kjempffkjempff Member RarePosts: 1,604
    Remember that deep learning AI bot Micro$oft tried to get to chat with people?
    I have a theory that Delete is something like that... And if I am correct, it still needs some tweaking I'd say.
    mmolouCryomatrixCoorslite
  • BaalzharonBaalzharon Member UncommonPosts: 267
    edited April 20
    Despite a few preferring group forced MMOs (I come from Asheron's Call where grouping was encouraged not forced)...the truth is, the vast majority of gamers don't want to be FORCED. But if they are encouraged to do something, they'll do it.

    Blizzard found that encouraging grouping instead of forcing it, let those who want to do their own thing in an MMO to those who prefer grouping while leveling (dungeons/pvp) found true success

    WoW even in vanilla also focused on a smooth, mostly (compared to competitors) bug free gameplay. I remember I went through so many MMOs because how broken and buggy they were. WoW just had style,such a smooth experience...even animations for its time were spot on. Barely any if any at all had that kinda gameplay

    Nothing in WoW is really forced, its all optional or encouraged. Want the best items possible? Yeah gotta group for it, but there is a ton of other things to do besides getting top item level. Nothing is really forced upon anyone

    And just like real life, companies realized forcing players to do something is a road to failure because no one LIKES to be forced to do something.

    And that is one major reason WoW saw great success, a bigger reason than it just being "warcraft". That and equally so how smooth and relatively bugfree the game was, with such a good quality experience compared to any competitors. There is a reason EQ2 failed when it was competiting for launch date with WoW. Today looks butt ugly while running extremely poorly and it always ran poorly and looked ugly compared to WoW.

    But its more than the IP definitely. There is plenty of IPs that MMOs have been based that have failed that were popular IPs.
    Theocritusjimmywolf
  • TheocritusTheocritus Member EpicPosts: 6,739
    WoW basically took EQ and improved upon it....They removed many of the time synchs that EQ had, made several options for solo, group, and raid gameplay, had quests organized in a linear pattern for ease, and made the game with graphics that you could play on even the worst systems.
    Octagon7711Mendel
  • Kevyne-ShandrisKevyne-Shandris Member UncommonPosts: 2,038

    By lucky coincidence, Blizzard was able to make unfortunate mistakes, cause it's competitors to follow, yet they them selfs were able to recover..... Blizzard is actually that strong ! 


    Your account is unable to post or reply until Dec 31, 2999 7:00 pm. (why not to 3000 AD???)

    Scroll down to the last 20 or so posts. Grab popcorn. WoW is ever about how Blizzard screws players and players flip it back dramas (and I ran out of thumbs up anyway!)...

    That aside, a lot of people still like WoW itself. It's one of the Western MMOs that's not tacky as the FTP and lootbox clown suit wearing/ham cleaver junk seen in Eastern gaming stuff. It's some Disney/Saturday morning cartoon game a lot grew up with. Complete with Acme holes!

    But Blizzard's actions (or ActiBlizzard as it should be called now) is where the players have problems with. That's where "The Game of Thrones" dramas of a studio and it's population, is as entertaining itself. >:)

    Sad thing is, THAT'S more entertaining than playing WoW these days. They should market that on Twitch or MLG, it'll get more views!

    Perfect RPGness theme to go with that popcorn, too...


  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 15,900
    Well since i have seen for FACT that some gamer's play ONLY Blizzard games says there are some really easy sell targets that use NO criteria for choosing games and simply make Blizzard richer because they don't think about their choices.

    My assumption all along was VERY simple,Blizzard was the big advertising developer when DSL became a cheap household item.It is EXACTLY like cell phones,people get a PC or a cell phone they immediately start buying ANYTHING to play on it.Two things come into play,popularity,like friends telling friends to come join them and all of them influenced by marketing.
    I was around the PC circles long before most and there were only a handful of hangouts,so if something was talked about i knew it and heard it.

    The icing on the cake,the closing of the analysis was obvious to me when i was standing in line at Electronic Boutique.A few young kids had to be accompanied by a parent to buy Wow and when the first young child went to the counter with what looked like his grandmother the clerk asked "Oh so another Wow gamer,do you like the game?".The child and his 2 friends behind him all chimed in,YEAH yeah all our friends at school are getting it.This is known as the SNOWBALL effect,then from there is snowballs into more popularioty and everyone new to PC gaming wants in on this popularity game.


    We need to remember that NOBODY had yet stepped foot into the game to have ANY clue what they were buying and at least 65% never even played a MMO before so even if they did know they would have NOTHING to compare their choice to.Point being there was NO criteria used in making the decision,this would definitely reaffirm LUCK.Then of course even after a few months of playing,if they got bored they would be thinking as i also seen a LOT of ,players afraid to let all their hard work disappear so they keep playing in spite.Then of course many would make friends within the game of which also does a really good job of keeping them there.


    Octagon7711Coorslite

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 15,900
    There is yet one more aspect that helps Blizzard keep a large player base well two more.
    1 Being popular means it is a great option for streamers looking to make money and Esports of which is VERY popular.This was reaffirmed by a once popular streamer that became a scammer "ATHENE" who said he ONLY plays Blizzard games because it gives him the most viewers.

    2 For years many of these Wow players never tried another mmo,so there is a VERY good chance they go try another they find it cumbersome,not like Wow so they immediately feel awkward in the game.If they don't make new friends they start thinking about,man i know how to play Wow,i know the world,i know the mechanics,i have lots of loot there,i should just go back and play Wow.

    I know when we had some Wow players come over to FFXi they were extremely confused to the point of giving up.They didn't understand the UI or macros or how to function as a GROUP within a group because in Wow it  is more like playing solo within a group.SATA wtf is that ,no thanks i'll just do my WS on my own,not realizing the SATA was needed to keep hate on the tank.

    My point is that even after the LUCK phase,there is likely LOTS of reasons why they kept their player base or players returned every time a new expansion came out.

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • ikcinikcin Member RarePosts: 2,171
    edited April 20
    Despite a few preferring group forced MMOs (I come from Asheron's Call where grouping was encouraged not forced)...the truth is, the vast majority of gamers don't want to be FORCED. But if they are encouraged to do something, they'll do it.

    Blizzard found that encouraging grouping instead of forcing it, let those who want to do their own thing in an MMO to those who prefer grouping while leveling (dungeons/pvp) found true success

    WoW even in vanilla also focused on a smooth, mostly (compared to competitors) bug free gameplay. I remember I went through so many MMOs because how broken and buggy they were. WoW just had style,such a smooth experience...even animations for its time were spot on. Barely any if any at all had that kinda gameplay

    Nothing in WoW is really forced, its all optional or encouraged. Want the best items possible? Yeah gotta group for it, but there is a ton of other things to do besides getting top item level. Nothing is really forced upon anyone

    And just like real life, companies realized forcing players to do something is a road to failure because no one LIKES to be forced to do something.

    And that is one major reason WoW saw great success, a bigger reason than it just being "warcraft". That and equally so how smooth and relatively bugfree the game was, with such a good quality experience compared to any competitors. There is a reason EQ2 failed when it was competiting for launch date with WoW. Today looks butt ugly while running extremely poorly and it always ran poorly and looked ugly compared to WoW.

    But its more than the IP definitely. There is plenty of IPs that MMOs have been based that have failed that were popular IPs.
    Yeah, that is why vast majority of players play LoL and Fortnite, because they hate the grouping and the PvP. WoW success is based on Diablo 2 and Warcraft 3. Then, when the vast majority of players played offline, solo games, WoW give them an online solo focused game with multiplayer elements. In the right moment, when the internet connections became more accessible to more people. With a lot of advertisement. Blizzard spent more for marketing then for WoW itself. Would most people play WoW if they new about L2? L2 looked much better. But WoW give the typical for the solo games quest hub. Maybe with equal advertisement both games would separate the audience. In fact they did in Korea, Eastern Europe, Russia, where the marketing of Blizzard was not so strong. 

    The marketing is a big thing. I have HTC Legend, a phone released when iPhone 4 was released, maybe few months earlier. My HTC still works. The battery is on 95%. As a phone, to check mails, even with Messenger and Facebook, my phone works fine. I bet most of you never heard about it - marketing.
    Coorslite
  • BaalzharonBaalzharon Member UncommonPosts: 267
    edited April 20
    ikcin said:
    Despite a few preferring group forced MMOs (I come from Asheron's Call where grouping was encouraged not forced)...the truth is, the vast majority of gamers don't want to be FORCED. But if they are encouraged to do something, they'll do it.

    Blizzard found that encouraging grouping instead of forcing it, let those who want to do their own thing in an MMO to those who prefer grouping while leveling (dungeons/pvp) found true success

    WoW even in vanilla also focused on a smooth, mostly (compared to competitors) bug free gameplay. I remember I went through so many MMOs because how broken and buggy they were. WoW just had style,such a smooth experience...even animations for its time were spot on. Barely any if any at all had that kinda gameplay

    Nothing in WoW is really forced, its all optional or encouraged. Want the best items possible? Yeah gotta group for it, but there is a ton of other things to do besides getting top item level. Nothing is really forced upon anyone

    And just like real life, companies realized forcing players to do something is a road to failure because no one LIKES to be forced to do something.

    And that is one major reason WoW saw great success, a bigger reason than it just being "warcraft". That and equally so how smooth and relatively bugfree the game was, with such a good quality experience compared to any competitors. There is a reason EQ2 failed when it was competiting for launch date with WoW. Today looks butt ugly while running extremely poorly and it always ran poorly and looked ugly compared to WoW.

    But its more than the IP definitely. There is plenty of IPs that MMOs have been based that have failed that were popular IPs.
    Yeah, that is why vast majority of players play LoL and Fortnite, because they hate the grouping and the PvP. WoW success is based on Diablo 2 and Warcraft 3. Then, when the vast majority of players played offline, solo games, WoW give them an online solo focused game with multiplayer elements. In the right moment, when the internet connections became more accessible to more people. With a lot of advertisement. Blizzard spent more for marketing then for WoW itself. Would most people play WoW if they new about L2? L2 looked much better. But WoW give the typical for the solo games quest hub. Maybe with equal advertisement both games would separate the audience. In fact they did in Korea, Eastern Europe, Russia, where the marketing of Blizzard was not so strong. 

    The marketing is a big thing. I have HTC Legend, a phone released when the first iPhone was released, maybe few months later. My HTC still works. The battery is on 95%. As a phone, to check mails, even with Messenger and Facebook, my phone works fine. I bet most of you never heard about it - marketing.
    Your first comparison is kinda senseless, mundane and pretty stupid. When you play Fortnite, you expect to PvP as the only thing to do in Fortnite is PvP

    If one plays call of duty or battlefield, they expect to shoot stuff with guns

    When you play a MOBA game, you expect it to be a MOBA game

    When a game has a specific mode of content and way to play, you expect that content.

    When you however play an MMO, there is not one specific mode of content. PvE (even if its basic), crafting, RPing, exploring, PvP, questing,building/housing (if its a thing)...most MMOs have a countless methods of ways to play. RPGs are a bit similar in this regard as well, though not to the point of an MMO. Even Darkfall for example can be played as not a PvP MMO, but instead reside in a city and craft 100% of the time to support the pvpers

    The one exception is the occasional odd one like Planetside which is an MMOFPS and... well ....one expects the gameplay to be an FPS and shoot stuff and that is pretty much it.

    However a game like EVE? WoW? As a couple examples. Nearly countless ways to play with a vast amount of play styles. 

    So comparing something like that...to a game like LoL or Fortnite that, unlike vast majority of MMOs, have a very specific gameplay style, is a pretty stupid comparison




  • Kevyne-ShandrisKevyne-Shandris Member UncommonPosts: 2,038
    Wizardry said:
    Well since i have seen for FACT that some gamer's play ONLY Blizzard games says there are some really easy sell targets that use NO criteria for choosing games and simply make Blizzard richer because they don't think about their choices.

    My assumption all along was VERY simple,Blizzard was the big advertising developer when DSL became a cheap household item.It is EXACTLY like cell phones,people get a PC or a cell phone they immediately start buying ANYTHING to play on it.


    When WoW started and upto MoP (when people could download the game and no longer needed to buy it at a store -- or get it stolen in the mail), people couldn't MISS the WoW boxes at Wal-Mart. A whole shelf SCREAMED at them to BUY it.

    I ignored it until EQ2 was going into an another expansion and I wanted to play a pally healer. No problem, just walk into Wal-Mart and buy the game.

    These days it's not like that, and Blizzard even prefers digital downloads (that maybe what's really hurting them, shelf space for PC games is crowded out with console games now. Parents find a console is also cheaper to buy than a PC, too).

    But who plays Wow these days, they've been in the game for years and invested a lot of time in it. Not new players. The kids are into MOBAs and the arena games (Overwatch is an example of it).

    WoW also is a closed garden. Activision sells it's stuff on Steam, Blizzard doesn't. You have to want to play it and find it, even at Wal-Mart now. It's now kids of parents who played the game that's playing.
    ScotCoorslite
  • delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 5,506
    Despite a few preferring group forced MMOs (I come from Asheron's Call where grouping was encouraged not forced)...the truth is, the vast majority of gamers don't want to be FORCED. But if they are encouraged to do something, they'll do it.

    Blizzard found that encouraging grouping instead of forcing it, let those who want to do their own thing in an MMO to those who prefer grouping while leveling (dungeons/pvp) found true success

    WoW even in vanilla also focused on a smooth, mostly (compared to competitors) bug free gameplay. I remember I went through so many MMOs because how broken and buggy they were. WoW just had style,such a smooth experience...even animations for its time were spot on. Barely any if any at all had that kinda gameplay

    Nothing in WoW is really forced, its all optional or encouraged. Want the best items possible? Yeah gotta group for it, but there is a ton of other things to do besides getting top item level. Nothing is really forced upon anyone

    And just like real life, companies realized forcing players to do something is a road to failure because no one LIKES to be forced to do something.

    And that is one major reason WoW saw great success, a bigger reason than it just being "warcraft". That and equally so how smooth and relatively bugfree the game was, with such a good quality experience compared to any competitors. There is a reason EQ2 failed when it was competiting for launch date with WoW. Today looks butt ugly while running extremely poorly and it always ran poorly and looked ugly compared to WoW.

    But its more than the IP definitely. There is plenty of IPs that MMOs have been based that have failed that were popular IPs.
    Good read,
    This is what made World of Warcraft #1.  To make a long story short, WoW had everything a player could possibly want. It was flawless with the only exception of not being a players style. 

    This made World of Warcraft King 5x over.

    With this power they changed direction in many ways and LOST A LOT OF PLAYERS. Key word "changed direction".

    Up coming competition followed along with the changed direction. Bad for them !  
  • ikcinikcin Member RarePosts: 2,171
    edited April 21
    Your first comparison is kinda senseless, mundane and pretty stupid. When you play Fortnite, you expect to PvP as the only thing to do in Fortnite is PvP

    If one plays call of duty or battlefield, they expect to shoot stuff with guns

    When you play a MOBA game, you expect it to be a MOBA game

    When a game has a specific mode of content and way to play, you expect that content.

    When you however play an MMO, there is not one specific mode of content. PvE (even if its basic), crafting, RPing, exploring, PvP, questing,building/housing (if its a thing)...most MMOs have a countless methods of ways to play. RPGs are a bit similar in this regard as well, though not to the point of an MMO. Even Darkfall for example can be played as not a PvP MMO, but instead reside in a city and craft 100% of the time to support the pvpers

    The one exception is the occasional odd one like Planetside which is an MMOFPS and... well ....one expects the gameplay to be an FPS and shoot stuff and that is pretty much it.

    However a game like EVE? WoW? As a couple examples. Nearly countless ways to play with a vast amount of play styles. 

    So comparing something like that...to a game like LoL or Fortnite that, unlike vast majority of MMOs, have a very specific gameplay style, is a pretty stupid comparison





    And WoW had PvP, now it tries again, just fails. Albion is full with WoW players :) I understand why the fanboys and the self proclaimed PvE players do not like such comparison. But LoL and WoW are both video games and in fact they are not so different as rules, features, mechanics and content. Fortnite too. But take LoL, as it has all the things above except housing. 
  • Kevyne-ShandrisKevyne-Shandris Member UncommonPosts: 2,038
    And WoW had PvP, now it tries again, just fails. Albion is full with WoW players :)

    WoW HAS PvP and it HAS PvP since 2004. Your game you love now wasn't even an apple in it's creator's eye then.

    WoW players are leaving because simply: WoW is old and Blizzard refuses to make WoW2. Most are bored with the design the devs have used for almost 20 years, and THEY refuse to adapt to changing player needs.

    Do you like watching the same series for almost 20 years, hours a day?

    You'd go crazy playing one game ONLY and nothing else!

    WoW has become a game players leave for months to years and come back to play for a month or so, then move on again. It's that familar game that's always there to return to when other games are down/messed up.

    Furthermore, while all games share the same type of game theory designs and overall abilities and such, LoL and WoW aren't the same, though. MOBAs are a different genre than RPGs. It's not about RP. You know a character story? MOBAs are like FPS games with faceless cutout characters. It's designed for ACTION and strategy. Not making a hero with their story playing in a larger story (while still keeping their own identity). WHY they're different genres. There's no roles in the RP sense, either.

    You don't go into LoL making a RP character. You pick premaade characters with the dev's descriptions. RPGs you customize your own character. EQ universe and some others allowed you to add in your profile your backstory, too (why I call WoW a ARPG, because it's devoid of that RPness, and it's basically Diablo for the masses, a loot grinder).

    Now do you understand the differences?
    Coorslite
  • btdtbtdt Member RarePosts: 470
    100% PROOF THAT THE OP HAS NO LIFE.

    You know the guy... you had one in every class... here he is... 20 years older and none the wiser...

    Life really does revolve around MMOs for him... it really does.
  • MightyUncleanMightyUnclean Member EpicPosts: 2,445
    What the fuck did I just read?  I'm gonna learn one of these days.
  • ikcinikcin Member RarePosts: 2,171
    And WoW had PvP, now it tries again, just fails. Albion is full with WoW players :)

    You'd go crazy playing one game ONLY and nothing else!
    Indeed, this is obvious. Also my favorite MMO is Lineage 2, and it was released before WoW. Then it was intentionally killed from piracy, bad management and obvious attempts to become closer to WoW. Koreans are great in creating of amazing games, and then they are even better in ruining the games they created. L2, AA, BDO, even Bless, none of them is a total failure. Maybe Bless failed. But both L2 and BDO are successful. Still I think they could be much better, with different management and marketing. Maybe even bigger than WoW. 
  • AAAMEOWAAAMEOW Member UncommonPosts: 859
    I think blizzard is just giving people what they want.  At least what people say on the wow forum.  

    It's like people on this forum mocking GW2 for being too easy.  While on GW2 forum people complain that the content(first expansion) is too hard.

    I also heard opposite on many topic like fast travel on this forum.  While on the actually game forum people argue the other way.

    Obviously different game have different target audience.  So reaction may differ.


  • CryomatrixCryomatrix Member EpicPosts: 2,427
    When I approach Delete's OP, I have one simple method.  

    1) I read it until my eyes glaze over. 

    This OP it took me the first sentence, sometimes, I make it to the end and others I do not. Once, I glaze over it, I stop reading it and then scroll down looking for entertaining posts. 

    If I do happen to make it to the end, and I understand his point, I may chime in, but usually my eyes glaze over too quickly to reach the end. 

    So if I chime in, it means I was able to follow the thought process, if not, then I usually enjoy the show by posting nothing and putting in "LOL" when I there are mirthful responses. 
    Jean-Luc_Picard
  • MalviousMalvious Member UncommonPosts: 218
    Nice bait.

    Fine, we'll compromise. I'll get my way & you'll find a way to be okay with that.

  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 6,054
    edited April 21
    If someone succeeds with something you approve, it's skill, talent, etc...
    If someone succeeds with something you dislike, it can only be luck.

    In the meantime, Blizzard are laughing all the way to the bank for the last 25 years ;)
    I agree but Morhaime and company are no longer in the picture. It will be interesting to see how Blizzard progresses from here.

    I'll judge them by the quality of their game, not by the amount of dollars the game brings in. 
    Coorslite

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • esc-joconnoresc-joconnor Member RarePosts: 1,015
    PsYcHoGBR said:
    Wow is no longer "King of the hill". ESO and FF14 have taken that crown.
    Someone doesn't know how king of the hill works.
    Kyleran
  • Kevyne-ShandrisKevyne-Shandris Member UncommonPosts: 2,038
    AAAMEOW said:
    I think blizzard is just giving people what they want.  At least what people say on the wow forum.
    If that was so, Blizzard would put the portals back into the world; and revert their water strider change.

    Both changes no one asked for even.

    Blizz just dumped it on us instead, with a take it or leave it attitude.
  • Kevyne-ShandrisKevyne-Shandris Member UncommonPosts: 2,038
    When I approach Delete's OP, I have one simple method.  

    1) I read it until my eyes glaze over. 

    This OP it took me the first sentence, sometimes, I make it to the end and others I do not. Once, I glaze over it, I stop reading it and then scroll down looking for entertaining posts. 

    If I do happen to make it to the end, and I understand his point, I may chime in, but usually my eyes glaze over too quickly to reach the end. 

    So if I chime in, it means I was able to follow the thought process, if not, then I usually enjoy the show by posting nothing and putting in "LOL" when I there are mirthful responses. 
    Naw. Just ignore the obvious and talk about the game instead. :D
  • MMOExposedMMOExposed Member RarePosts: 6,735
    No. Most MMOs are copies of Everquest. EQ2 came out before WoW and did all those same things as well. WoW was just more polished and had a bigger IP. WoW didnt do anything new. It was just a new skin and easier to get into.  Vanilla WoW was grindy like every other game, had hardcore endgame that less than 5% of players ever played.
    ikcinCoorslite

    image

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