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Crafting and Gathering: what's the next step to evolve this gameplay in MMOs?

MMOExposedMMOExposed Member RarePosts: 6,945
Most mmos have a crafting and gathering.  They do it slightly different. Most of the time it's the gameplay surrounding the crafting/gathering that is different,  not the crafting and gathering itself.  I was thinking maybe its times for crafting and gathering system to evolve, itself, instead of outside influences like the type of pvp flagging in the game. But what's the next step to do this?

When I think of evolution of gameplay, what i mean is how Dynamic Events in GW2 was a evolution of traditional Quest. What's going to be that equivalent for Crafting & Gathering?

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Comments

  • DMKanoDMKano Member LegendaryPosts: 21,176
    edited April 10
    I say you craft and gather in real life - take pictures and submit them in game.

    That way there is actual RL benefit and in-game benefit.

    Win-win

    ;)
    AlBQuirkyVermillion_RaventhalSteelhelm
  • ChildoftheShadowsChildoftheShadows Member RarePosts: 1,106
    DMKano said:
    I say you craft and gather in real life - take pictures and submit them in game.

    That way there is actual RL benefit and in-game benefit.

    Win-win

    ;)
    Noxious and invasive weeds earn more points!
    DMKanoAlBQuirky
  • iixviiiixiixviiiix Member RarePosts: 1,970
    Let say , what's crafting anyway ?

    research materials , figure out the formula , design the look . Pretty simple right ?

    So i believe that you need RNGesus to evolve crafting . By giving luck by gamble for the chosen one , RNGesus create unique craftsman

    AlBQuirky
  • AlverantAlverant Member RarePosts: 1,131
    I predict it will be individual homes. They're already a thing in some games. Wildstar (RIP) and others already have it. This is a way to make part of the game your own and keep you "engaged" as the publishers put it. It's like customizing your character but you have a bigger area to work and express yourself.

    User-generated was fun for a while but games seem to be moving away from that. City of Heroes (RIP) did it best but now NWN is shutting it down.
  • TheocritusTheocritus Member EpicPosts: 7,036
    DMKano said:
    I say you craft and gather in real life - take pictures and submit them in game.

    That way there is actual RL benefit and in-game benefit.

    Win-win

    ;)
    Isn't that basically Snapchat and Instagram?
    AlBQuirky
  • karmathkarmath Member UncommonPosts: 896
    I wouldn't say evolve, I'd say devolve. Modern crafting systems are either a flimsy, poorly designed tack on feature or a system to drive you into spending money in the cash shop. 

    The systems in Vanguard or Star Wars Galaxies had complexity, usefulness and fun factor leaps and bounds over anything released still over a decade later.
    MisterZebubAlBQuirkyAmarantharmmolouSyllendalefree2playlaseritsomeforumguy
  • CryomatrixCryomatrix Member EpicPosts: 2,636
    I like the idea of discovering new blueprints that make you unique. 

    I would have crafting mats require regular gathering, loot based mats, dungeon based mats, and crafted mats.

    I would also like the ability to color and enchant said gear. 
    AlBQuirkyAmaranthar
    Catch me streaming at twitch.tv/cryomatrix
    You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations. 
  • RockardRockard Member UncommonPosts: 206
    iixviiiix said:
    Let say , what's crafting anyway ?

    research materials , figure out the formula , design the look . Pretty simple right ?

    So i believe that you need RNGesus to evolve crafting . By giving luck by gamble for the chosen one , RNGesus create unique craftsman


    You just described all of BDO gathering.Just yesterday morning I finished a quest that required of me to gather hundreds of mats for a chance to get the 3 of the kind I actually needed.And not it's not unique.I would use another word to describe it.
    One that starts with an S and ends with a hit.
  • RockardRockard Member UncommonPosts: 206
    No way I'm sharing my awesome loot/gathering ideas with you all.
    AlBQuirky
  • MisterZebubMisterZebub Member LegendaryPosts: 3,584
    DMKano said:
    I say you craft and gather in real life - take pictures and submit them in game.

    That way there is actual RL benefit and in-game benefit.

    Win-win

    ;)
    There's an idea, I'm off to punch some trees.
    AlBQuirky

    "You have kept me at your beck and call for fifteen years. I shall never again do what you demand of me. By every rule of single combat, from this moment your life belongs to me. Is that not correct? Then I shall simply declare you dead. In all of your dealings with me, you'll do me the courtesy to conduct yourself as a dead man. I have submitted to your notions of honor long enough. You will now submit to mine."

  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Member EpicPosts: 5,415
    I'm kind of with iixviiix on this one. There's not a lot more one can do with crafting, as it is fairly basic: Gather materials; Put materials together; Craft item (or not). Not much more to crafting.

    I would like to see it get more in depth. I see Star Wars Galaxies mentioned and a few other games I've not had the pleasure of playing, but it seems that "the old ones" at least had some kind of deeper crafting than what is barely thrown together today. I know many players like it, but I despised Star Wars: The Old Republic's "non-crafting" crafting set-up, where you sent your peons to craft for you. I enjoy crafting and want to craft things myself, not send some apprentice off to do it for me.

    I enjoyed EQ's crafting and thought it was fairly in depth, though a bit wonky at times, like using animal parts for "special" armor pieces. Fish scales for a helm? Really? That gets pretty stinky after a bit, I would imagine.

    The Elder Scroll single player games would be interesting to see in an MMORPG. I've not played ES:O so I don't know how that crafting is compared to Morrowind. I like the idea of separating out the different crafts. Craft armor, THEN get it enchanted. Crafting magical armor in a forge never made much sense to me, also from my EQ experience.

    I also like the idea of "trainers." There will come a point when you hit a plateau and can't figure out what to do next. Visit a trainer and have them show you how to keep on keeping on. Maybe a task (NOT a quest) to help you over that hump?

    As I said, there isn't much to crafting, itself. It used to be a much bigger part of the game and quite in depth. I'd like to see that come back. Remember, Devs, the more activities we have, the longer we stay doing those activities :)
    iixviiiixlaserit

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR


    (And now Burger King has MEATLESS burgers!)

  • AdamantineAdamantine Member RarePosts: 4,276
    Oh, actually its very easy to think of improvements to the Vanguard crafting, too.

    The game you had to play in order to craft was very well done. In the details however there was still potential for improvement.

    Yes I'm aware its only even worse in other games, which will cost you endless amounts of money to craft useless crap nobody needs just to level. They gave you an alternative to that one. In fact they forced you to play that alternative, because you'd get random drops of crafting gear from it.

    But personally I felt I had to waste a lot of lifetime crafting crap nobody needed, just to level. Would MUCH prefer a system that would bind crafter level to adventurer level so you dont have to play that silly game, at least not as friggin much. Or really any other system thats more interesting than playing this silly crafter game over and over. For its not THAT interesting, thank you very much.

    And it would have been great if you could actually craft crafter gear, instead of playing a silly rng game that you in the end always lose, because even after leveling SEVEN crafters I was sitting on a huge heap of dropped gear that wasnt fun to do in the first place and that was still hilariously useless because of the way it distributed the attributes and skills made sure you couldnt get a good balance of attributes and skills.

    To add further to the embarassment, all this gear was obsolete in the end because quest gear was far ahead anyway.

    Also they failed to archieve that crafting was an equal to questing and raiding. All this effort and then all you had been needed for was consumeables and accessoires like bags, and maybe the occasional Ancient gear for somebody who wanted the best gear before raiding.

    Personally I think the ideal design would make sure that crafting, raiding, grouping and PvP would all be necessary to get the best gear in the game, but at the same time each of these areas should be sufficient to get pretty sweet gear. So if somebody only does three of the four areas they would still get pretty highend stuff. Just not the best of the best.

    In Vanguard, which had no PvP, all you needed was raiding.

    Worse, in the real highend raids (which I never managed to get to) they made sure you had to be maxlevel crafter and maxlevel diplomat to get everything out of raiding, but you otherwise didnt needed to be crafter or diplomat. It was a silly random limitation.

    Otherwise it was a sweet system, though. Certainly a good base to expand further on.

    AlBQuirky
    Please set a sig so I can read your posting even if somebody "agreed" etc with it. Thanks.
  • Vermillion_RaventhalVermillion_Raventhal Member EpicPosts: 3,934
    I would like to see shops/manufacturing buildings for crafting and mines, lumberyards and farming for gathering.  
    Amaranthar
  • AmarantharAmaranthar Member RarePosts: 3,414
    edited April 10
    In RL, to make steel out of iron they build a forge and the carbon from the burning coals does the job.
    I'd like to see this step added so that then, in a fantasy world, you can add additional benefits by using rare woods to burn.
    And I'd like to see this step offer experimentation in a wide scale.
    You might even soak woods of different types in other ingredients to experiment with in burning the wood coals for some other discovery in the finished "steel."
    You could have a very wide range of benefits and detrimental effects, and all subject to discovery through experimentation.

    And this could be done with every resource for every skill.
    Brewing up a potion? Try adding a little allspice or salt or both, and see what happens.
    Tanning leather? Same thing.
    Smoking some meat? How about adding a pinch of Black Lotus to the fire and see if anyone dies when they eat the meat.

    Maybe you discover that the experiment making steel that ended up as what appeared to be brittle iron, actually makes horseshoes that give added speed or running on water ability to your mount.
    Now if only you could figure out how to take that brittle effect out of that iron so your horseshoes don't keep cracking and falling off.


    Once upon a time....

  • AmatheAmathe Member LegendaryPosts: 5,732
    DMKano said:
    I say you craft and gather in real life - take pictures and submit them in game.

    That way there is actual RL benefit and in-game benefit.

    Win-win

    ;)
    Or you could gather using a VR product, like with Pokemon Go. Some device where you gather materials using your phone in your back yard.

    EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests

  • MendelMendel Member EpicPosts: 3,278
    I don't know if crafting in its current form deserves changes in MMORPGs.  As it stands, crafting encourages people to try to be self-sufficient.  Everyone wants to do it themselves.  That seems an odd attitude to take in a cooperative focused game.

    Now, maybe if crafting became a true specialist operation within the game world, it might be worth a look.  Crafting 'classes' that do nothing else except crafting, and progress at roughly the same pace as non-crafting classes.  Maybe progression is tied to sales (to other players), as the idea behind specialist craftsmen has always been businesslike.

    Until games take crafting as more than a thing that everyone can do, I'd prefer that MMORPGs devote the little bit of effort they put into crafting into other elements.



    deniterAlBQuirkyAmaranthar

    Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.

  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Member EpicPosts: 5,415
    I would like to see shops/manufacturing buildings for crafting and mines, lumberyards and farming for gathering.  
    Are you talking mass production?

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR


    (And now Burger King has MEATLESS burgers!)

  • ChildoftheShadowsChildoftheShadows Member RarePosts: 1,106
    AlBQuirky said:
    I would like to see shops/manufacturing buildings for crafting and mines, lumberyards and farming for gathering.  
    Are you talking mass production?
    Would be cool a long as there is upkeep.
    Amaranthar
  • AmarantharAmaranthar Member RarePosts: 3,414
    AlBQuirky said:
    I would like to see shops/manufacturing buildings for crafting and mines, lumberyards and farming for gathering.  
    Are you talking mass production?
    Would be cool a long as there is upkeep.
    And player participation and management so that it's an interesting system to play out.

    Once upon a time....

  • ikcinikcin Member RarePosts: 2,205
    Most mmos have a crafting and gathering.  They do it slightly different. Most of the time it's the gameplay surrounding the crafting/gathering that is different,  not the crafting and gathering itself.  I was thinking maybe its times for crafting and gathering system to evolve, itself, instead of outside influences like the type of pvp flagging in the game. But what's the next step to do this?

    When I think of evolution of gameplay, what i mean is how Dynamic Events in GW2 was a evolution of traditional Quest. What's going to be that equivalent for Crafting & Gathering?
    And I think about L2. There are specialized classes for crafting and gathering. That in combination with FFA PvP, OW trade, and the best gear obtainable only from crafting, make these activities multiplayer. You do not need dynamic events when you have players in the game. There is nothing more surprising than the other people.
  • UngoodUngood Member EpicPosts: 2,757
    Camelot Unchained, has mentioned they plan to have "Crafting Classes" and I would love to see how this pans out.

    The idea of being a "Blacksmith" right from the start.. that is the class, that is what you do, this unlocks special abilities and traits, this allows you to work metal like no one else.

    I like that idea, as opposed to what we have now, where people are all like "I'm a Ranger with ranks of Blacksmith"
    LokeroChildoftheShadows
  • AmarantharAmaranthar Member RarePosts: 3,414
    Ungood said:
    Camelot Unchained, has mentioned they plan to have "Crafting Classes" and I would love to see how this pans out.

    The idea of being a "Blacksmith" right from the start.. that is the class, that is what you do, this unlocks special abilities and traits, this allows you to work metal like no one else.

    I like that idea, as opposed to what we have now, where people are all like "I'm a Ranger with ranks of Blacksmith"
    I think that does have potential.
    Are they going to allow players to have 2 classes? Like with a prime class and then a secondary class?

    Once upon a time....

  • UngoodUngood Member EpicPosts: 2,757
    Ungood said:
    Camelot Unchained, has mentioned they plan to have "Crafting Classes" and I would love to see how this pans out.

    The idea of being a "Blacksmith" right from the start.. that is the class, that is what you do, this unlocks special abilities and traits, this allows you to work metal like no one else.

    I like that idea, as opposed to what we have now, where people are all like "I'm a Ranger with ranks of Blacksmith"
    I think that does have potential.
    Are they going to allow players to have 2 classes? Like with a prime class and then a secondary class?
    I really have no idea. 

    Maybe one of the backers can chime in.
  • LokeroLokero Member RarePosts: 1,513
    Ungood said:
    Camelot Unchained, has mentioned they plan to have "Crafting Classes" and I would love to see how this pans out.

    The idea of being a "Blacksmith" right from the start.. that is the class, that is what you do, this unlocks special abilities and traits, this allows you to work metal like no one else.

    I like that idea, as opposed to what we have now, where people are all like "I'm a Ranger with ranks of Blacksmith"
    I think that does have potential.
    Are they going to allow players to have 2 classes? Like with a prime class and then a secondary class?
    AFAIK, they are still planning to keep "crafting" as its own class.  However, they are going to allow typical adventurer classes to do small crafting tasks -- repairing, harvesting, etc. -- to some degree.
    So, you could make another charater that was specificially a crafter, but couldn't become a master crafter on your "Ranger", as quoted.

    Last I knew, adventurers could do the basics, but, for example, couldn't harvest rarer resources, etc.  One will need a real crafter for anything advanced.

    The crafting classes will actually have their own stat progression and gear, iirc(?).
    There will be an "apprentice" system that allows non-crafter or lesser-skilled crafters to take part in some of the tasks for a master crafter.

    There's a whole freaking design document on their main page about it.  It's way too much to go over here.  Links to the main site:

  • ChildoftheShadowsChildoftheShadows Member RarePosts: 1,106
    edited April 11
    Ungood said:
    Camelot Unchained, has mentioned they plan to have "Crafting Classes" and I would love to see how this pans out.

    The idea of being a "Blacksmith" right from the start.. that is the class, that is what you do, this unlocks special abilities and traits, this allows you to work metal like no one else.

    I like that idea, as opposed to what we have now, where people are all like "I'm a Ranger with ranks of Blacksmith"
    Plays well with the reality that our characters are adults when they're created so they should have some knowledge from growing up. Their background in a blacksmithing family could give them an edge over players whos character have a background in combat, medics, or other fields.

    So imagine that it takes a long time (time, experience, whatever method of "leveling" there is) to level a class, to learn everything there is to learn about it. Say you know 25% at the very start of your character from your background. This would mean a 25% head start over someone who picked combat vs your blacksmithing. If they decided to become a blacksmith they would need to start from 0.

    Maybe from their background they are able to pick up on new things faster than a character who picks up blacksmithing later on in life.
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