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Biggest missed opportunity: No Dark Age of Camelot (DAOC) remake or classic servers

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Comments

  • QuarterStackQuarterStack Member RarePosts: 407
    edited April 5
    Wizardry said:
    I lasted about 2 hours in DAOC,i thought it looked old and didn't like the gameplay.I remember very little about it,a few things turned me off that i remember but mostly right away the character selection/class selection was lol.

    So no i don't want a daoc or anything like it.I want no pvp in ANY of my rpg's,it is not healthy for the community or the game.The only place i want to pvp is in an arena fps nowhere else.

    Maybe one day when we have REAL VR and not this constant lol crap they keep trying to market us,maybe then pvp would be cool but even then the reasons why it is no cool in rpg's would still remain so no.
    Welp... there you have it. Wizardry tried DAoC, didn't like it (it's not FFXI after all), wouldn't want anything like that. So... may as well not even bother.

    Wizardry, you could literally just post "Present" and everyone would already know what your opinion is. You've been writing, basically, the same post, ad infinitum, for months now.


    Viper482Hatefull
  • HatefullHatefull Member EpicPosts: 2,180
    Wizardry said:
    I lasted about 2 hours in DAOC,i thought it looked old and didn't like the gameplay.I remember very little about it,a few things turned me off that i remember but mostly right away the character selection/class selection was lol.

    So no i don't want a daoc or anything like it.I want no pvp in ANY of my rpg's,it is not healthy for the community or the game.The only place i want to pvp is in an arena fps nowhere else.

    Maybe one day when we have REAL VR and not this constant lol crap they keep trying to market us,maybe then pvp would be cool but even then the reasons why it is no cool in rpg's would still remain so no.
    Welp... there you have it. Wizardry tried DAoC, didn't like it (it's not FFXI after all), wouldn't want anything like that. So... may as well not even bother.

    Wizardry, you could literally just post "Present" and everyone would already know what your opinion is. You've been writing, basically, the same post, ad infinitum, for months now.


    Yup. Ergo my issue with him. I just stopped reading his posts, I know as soon as I see his name on the list I can skip his copy/paste speech and keep scrolling.

    If you want a new idea, go read an old book.

  • GregorMcgregorGregorMcgregor Member UncommonPosts: 248
    I do still jump back in to DAoC now and again. I'd go back 24/7 if they revamped the game to make it more modern (can't see Unchained cutting it tbh). As for the Phoenix Freeshard, I was talking to a EA rep that said the devs are looking into legal action over copyright breach over stolen material (the code I guess?).
    Kyleran

    No trials. No tricks. No traps. No EU-RP server. NO THANKS!

    image

    ...10% Benevolence, 90% Arrogance in my case!
  • gervaise1gervaise1 Member EpicPosts: 6,291
    Viper482 said:
    So who knows our favorite publisher in the whole world (EA) still owns Daoc? Run by Broadsword, EA still owns the license....and as we know as long as they do they will do nothing worthwhile with it. As long as black beats red on the money books they don't give a shit.

    I just think this is a no-brainer, but maybe it is because I would love to play on this server. My ultimate dream would be an engine/UI overhaul and rerelease....but I know that is what it is...a dream. But man, World of Warcraft even gave in and is doing classic....come on Daoc! I think it would be a hit to go back to old Emain.

    So how many are with me? Would you be excited about a classic server? 
    Pretty certain that EA no longer own DAoC or UO.

    Whilst EA "set-up" Broadsword Studios - which now run DAoC and UO - they passed ownership over to Rob Denton and other ex-Mythic employees. Rob Denton being the 3rd member of the trio with MJ and MF who ran Mythic originally. Lot of talk back then about Broadsword being an indie etc. and of the great plans for the games.

    Basically what WarnerBros did with LotR when they set up Standing Stone Games.

    And kudos to both EA and WarnerBros. for doing so NCSoft would no doubt have just closed them
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 33,932
    edited April 10
    Hatefull said:
    Wizardry said:
    I lasted about 2 hours in DAOC,i thought it looked old and didn't like the gameplay.I remember very little about it,a few things turned me off that i remember but mostly right away the character selection/class selection was lol.

    So no i don't want a daoc or anything like it.I want no pvp in ANY of my rpg's,it is not healthy for the community or the game.The only place i want to pvp is in an arena fps nowhere else.

    Maybe one day when we have REAL VR and not this constant lol crap they keep trying to market us,maybe then pvp would be cool but even then the reasons why it is no cool in rpg's would still remain so no.
    If you could not find a class that fit you in this game then nothing satisfies you which now makes so much sense.  And looked old?  Your favorite goto is FFXI which barely looks like a PS2 game and a UI that makes one want to stab their eyes out with a spoon so the complaints make no sense there.  You did not even get to the core game which was the RvR.
    Wasting your time on that one. He isn't a gamer just a complainer.

    I liked DAoC however, I feel like it should be left in the past mostly, there is a part of me that would like to see it "modernized" and re-launched but not enough to write more than I have about it.
    Hmm, with a bit of editing I think you just came up with a good slogan.

    '¹Be a gamer instead of a complainer,' or something like that.
    Hatefull

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 33,932
    As for the P. Freeshard, I was talking to a EA rep that said the devs are looking into legal action over copyright breach over stolen material (the code I guess?).
    Interesting news, there's been long running freeshards which EA has never raised an issue against,  wonder why they would do so now against this one?

    Though someone shared some numbers recently which if still true probably means its carrying more players than live which could be the reason.

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • madazzmadazz Member RarePosts: 1,976
    Camelot unchained. Pretty well much a remake from my limited understanding. I haven't stayed fully up to date so i can still experience something new when it launches.
  • GregorMcgregorGregorMcgregor Member UncommonPosts: 248
    Kyleran said:
    As for the P. Freeshard, I was talking to a EA rep that said the devs are looking into legal action over copyright breach over stolen material (the code I guess?).
    Interesting news, there's been long running freeshards which EA has never raised an issue against,  wonder why they would do so now against this one?

    Though someone shared some numbers recently which if still true probably means its carrying more players than live which could be the reason.
    I stupidly deleted the email convo as I thought I'd no longer need it for anything. Granded it could have been a GM talking out their ass, but they claimed they had all been spoken to by devs and that it was being looked at.
    I'm guessing that you are correct and it is because it's making the main (subbed) servers loose players hand over fist.
    The whole crazy topic only came up because I had mentioned it in passing (my real issue was with my buffbot sub not going through correctly).
    Time shall tell. Maybe it isn't worth the cost of chasing it. It's not like EA to turn away cash though. ;)

    No trials. No tricks. No traps. No EU-RP server. NO THANKS!

    image

    ...10% Benevolence, 90% Arrogance in my case!
  • RhoklawRhoklaw Member EpicPosts: 6,540
    It's hard to say whether an upgraded / overhauled DAoC 2.0 would be a smash hit, but I know it'd do a lot better than a majority of the MMOs that have launched since it's original conception. Same goes for Anarchy Online. Love that game to death too, but it's in dire need of a 2.0 as well, not just a graphical update.

  • rojoArcueidrojoArcueid Member EpicPosts: 10,018
    Hatefull said:
    Thane said:
    Viper482 said:
    So who knows our favorite publisher in the whole world (EA) still owns Daoc? Run by Broadsword, EA still owns the license....and as we know as long as they do they will do nothing worthwhile with it. As long as black beats red on the money books they don't give a shit.

    I just think this is a no-brainer, but maybe it is because I would love to play on this server. My ultimate dream would be an engine/UI overhaul and rerelease....but I know that is what it is...a dream. But man, World of Warcraft even gave in and is doing classic....come on Daoc! I think it would be a hit to go back to old Emain.

    So how many are with me? Would you be excited about a classic server? 
    screw EA. if you want dark age, wait for mark to finish camelot unchained.
    I like EA, they make good games, just not good MMORPG games
    They buy studios that make great games, then they ruin the games and close the studio.
    Margrave




  • TamanousTamanous Member RarePosts: 2,993
    madazz said:
    Camelot unchained. Pretty well much a remake from my limited understanding. I haven't stayed fully up to date so i can still experience something new when it launches.
    Definitely something old Daoc players should keep an eye out for if interested in RvR as the main focus.

    Daoc however grabbed both RvR and PvE players (and perhaps part of it's downfall) so I can still see an interest in a legacy Daoc server for some.


    You stay sassy!

  • gervaise1gervaise1 Member EpicPosts: 6,291
    Hatefull said:
    Thane said:
    Viper482 said:
    So who knows our favorite publisher in the whole world (EA) still owns Daoc? Run by Broadsword, EA still owns the license....and as we know as long as they do they will do nothing worthwhile with it. As long as black beats red on the money books they don't give a shit.

    I just think this is a no-brainer, but maybe it is because I would love to play on this server. My ultimate dream would be an engine/UI overhaul and rerelease....but I know that is what it is...a dream. But man, World of Warcraft even gave in and is doing classic....come on Daoc! I think it would be a hit to go back to old Emain.

    So how many are with me? Would you be excited about a classic server? 
    screw EA. if you want dark age, wait for mark to finish camelot unchained.
    I like EA, they make good games, just not good MMORPG games
    They buy studios that make great games, then they ruin the games and close the studio.
    EA doesn't run DAoC. Will post below.

    As for EA buying studios they certainly did but haven't done that for a long time - got burnt to many times is my view. Including their purchase of Mythic. Worth nothing that Mythic staff had nothing but good things to say about EA and how EA let them get on with developing Warhammer. Which suggests can't really be blamed. Although personally I think things might have gone better if they had imposed more control. So maybe they were to blame!
  • gervaise1gervaise1 Member EpicPosts: 6,291
    edited April 10
    As I said above I was pretty sure that DAoC (and UO) are not EA games. Did some digging and - maybe? - confirmed that that is the case. (Might be since the phrase used was "operating the game on EA's behalf" so maybe EA retained "ownership" and licensed it out (probably for a nominal cent) to the (then newly created) Broadsword. Anyway here is the post: 

    https://www.darkageofcamelot.com/article/next-chapter-dark-age-camelot

    A key point in the post being: Is Broadsword an Electronic Arts studio? No. However, for purposes of DAoC, Broadsword will be operating the game on EA’s behalf to continue its success.

    Full post:

    The Next Chapter for Dark Age of Camelot

    Posted by Talal Saad | 2014 Feb 05 01:58 -0500 GMT

    Friends and realm-mates,
     
    For more than twelve years Mythic Entertainment’s flagship game: Dark Age of Camelot™ has been remarkably successful. Since its launch in 2001, DAoC forever changed the MMO genre.
     
    Inspiring thousands of gamers and game developers alike, it paved the way for a generation of MMOs to follow. Through the years, Camelot has also seen its share of rough times - but thanks to its many loyal fans and its wonderful and dedicated community, Dark Age of Camelot has proven to be a true survivor. In recent months, Mythic’s leadership began discussing the question of Camelot’s future. Councils were convened, options were discussed - and finally, a decision was made regarding the best possible future for Dark Age of Camelot.
     


    I write to you now with news of the exciting next chapter in the life and history of our beloved game:
     
    Mythic Entertainment co-founder Rob Denton and a number of Mythic veterans (including two members of Camelot’s original team!) have formed a new game studio - Broadsword Online Games
     
    Broadsword Online Games will partner with EA’s Mythic Entertainment to operate, support and develop Dark Age of Camelot on EA’s behalf.  Electronic Arts will continue to provide billing and account services through its Origin portal.   Broadsword and Electronic Arts will work closely together to ensure a bright future for Dark Age of Camelot.  For future inquiries and support, you can contact daoc@broadsword.com.
     
    There are sure to be many questions, and we will certainly be providing more information very soon. But for now please join us in celebrating this momentous event, and spread the word that the Broadsword team will guide Dark Age of Camelot into the future with renewed dedication and the utmost respect.
     
     
    Faithfully yours,
     
    Talal Saad
    Producer
    Dark Age of Camelot


    ----------------------------


    In the wake of such exciting news, we know that there shall be numerous questions about this transition and what it means for Dark Age of Camelot. Let’s explore the answers to some basic questions:

    What does the transition to Broadsword mean for Dark Age of Camelot?

    EA/Mythic and Broadsword are working really hard to make sure that this transition is as smooth as possible. On February 5th, you shouldn’t notice a thing. Going forward, we hope to bring about some exciting new changes, improved Customer Support, and increased correspondence with the DAoC community.

    Broadsword’s dedicated team will also work to modernize and improve existing DAoC content, complete long-awaited improvements to The Camelot Herald, and establish compelling new features for Dark Age of Camelot, both in-game and out.

    Is Broadsword an Electronic Arts studio?

    No. However, for purposes of DAoC, Broadsword will be operating the game on EA’s behalf to continue its success.  

    Will there be a change in the payment system?

    Nope! Players will continue to access DAoC through EA’s Origin™ portal. There will be no interruption or change in the payment service. Players may notice that charges on their bank statements will still indicate a payment to Mythic or EA – and Game Time Codes will still be available via the EA Origin™ Store.

    What will happen to any information I’ve provided to EA/Mythic?

    Nothing.  Since Broadsword is operating DAoC on EA’s behalf, all the information you provided and may provide in the future will continue to be managed according to EA’s Privacy Policy and Terms of Service.

    Will there be changes to the Dark Age of Camelot development team?

    Broadsword is made up of a people who are passionate about DAoC, and many of whom were responsible for the development and operation in the past.

    You can continue to expect the same high level of dedication and commitment to the game, as well as continued interaction with the player-base. You will see some new names, or possibly names you know quite well taking a role in the development of Dark Age of Camelot going forward.

    Will this transition alter the plans for Dark Age of Camelot’s near term changes?

    DaoC’s transition to Broadsword will certainly have a positive effect on our future plans. With increased bandwidth and resources we will work toward modernizing some of the game’s features and developing a tangible marketing plan to attract more players, both new and returning.

    The mission of the Dark Age of Camelot team will remain the same: to improve the game, listen and respond to feedback, and to provide the best possible content to ensure a great game experience for our players.

    Are you bouncing off the walls with excitement?!

    Why yes! Yes we are!
    -----

    We’ve just scratched the surface with these basic questions. We’ll set up an avenue for you to submit your questions about the transition, and do our best to provide the answers.

    Speaking for the entire Dark Age of Camelot team: Thank you all, very sincerely, for sticking with us through the years. We will do our utmost to take DAoC into a bright and exciting future!

    Until next time friends, we await your feedback and questions - and we’ll see you in the Frontiers!

    Respectfully yours,
    The Dark Age of Camelot Team

    Post edited by gervaise1 on
    GregorMcgregor
  • gervaise1gervaise1 Member EpicPosts: 6,291
    edited April 10
    Kyleran said:
    As for the P. Freeshard, I was talking to a EA rep that said the devs are looking into legal action over copyright breach over stolen material (the code I guess?).
    Interesting news, there's been long running freeshards which EA has never raised an issue against,  wonder why they would do so now against this one?

    Though someone shared some numbers recently which if still true probably means its carrying more players than live which could be the reason.

    So - assuming the report is true etc. - it is the Broadsword devs that have asked EA to take action. And the difference between "now" and "historically" is - and I speculate - what might be a "small"  loss of revenue to EA will be a "big" (potentially huge %) loss of revenue to Broadsword. 

    And since EA - I believe - still own the DAoC trademark that is maybe why they have been asked. 
    Post edited by gervaise1 on
    GregorMcgregor
  • AmarantharAmaranthar Member RarePosts: 3,414
    I've got to say that while I do not like the huge power gaps of these games or the leveling systems, I liked DAoC the best.

    Wow had a lot of cool and well done stuff in it, but DAoC had cool stuff too. As a Sandbox gamer (wannabe, these days) I just liked DAoC better than the rest. I have fond memories of much of that game, even though it wasn't quite "my kind of thing."

    Take out the big power gaps and open the game world up to all levels and that would have been a kick arse game.
    Add Sandbox elements and I think it would have kicked >Massively.arse< .

    Once upon a time....

  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 33,932
    edited April 10
    Tamanous said:
    madazz said:
    Camelot unchained. Pretty well much a remake from my limited understanding. I haven't stayed fully up to date so i can still experience something new when it launches.
    Definitely something old Daoc players should keep an eye out for if interested in RvR as the main focus.

    Daoc however grabbed both RvR and PvE players (and perhaps part of it's downfall) so I can still see an interest in a legacy Daoc server for some.


    You only think you want a legacy server. :D

    First question,  what RSV do you want? Strict 1.69 compliant? All the way back to the original launch when there was only 20 levels? TOA? New Frontiers? Catacombs? 

    1.69 is basically around the time of the SI release, generally considered DAOC's best days, and the version the U-shard mostly adheres to.....and has been a ghost town since 6 months post launch.  

    People quickly came to loath the long leveling curve (which was still scaled back some) to get to end game.
     
    Team never could get the SI lands released due to lack of accurate data on npcs, drops etc to keep the experience "true."

    The P-shard team said screw it, they launched 1.69 with SI enabled using the available data and just made stuff up to fill in the gaps.

    The goal on P-shard is very different, they added many QOL improvements and leveling aids to get players quickly to end game RVR.

    Probably explains why they are more popular than U-shard and of course is totally free crushing live as well.
    gervaise1

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • HatefullHatefull Member EpicPosts: 2,180
    Hatefull said:
    Thane said:
    Viper482 said:
    So who knows our favorite publisher in the whole world (EA) still owns Daoc? Run by Broadsword, EA still owns the license....and as we know as long as they do they will do nothing worthwhile with it. As long as black beats red on the money books they don't give a shit.

    I just think this is a no-brainer, but maybe it is because I would love to play on this server. My ultimate dream would be an engine/UI overhaul and rerelease....but I know that is what it is...a dream. But man, World of Warcraft even gave in and is doing classic....come on Daoc! I think it would be a hit to go back to old Emain.

    So how many are with me? Would you be excited about a classic server? 
    screw EA. if you want dark age, wait for mark to finish camelot unchained.
    I like EA, they make good games, just not good MMORPG games
    They buy studios that make great games, then they ruin the games and close the studio.
    They may have done that at some point, but it is certainly NOT their business model. You do realize they make far more games than MMO's...right? MMO's are not their bread and butter.
    Kylerangervaise1

    If you want a new idea, go read an old book.

  • kitaradkitarad Member EpicPosts: 5,125
    I think Mark is doing the right thing to remove the PvE from the RvR in Camelot Unchained because when I first played DAoC it had horribly boring PvE. That is probably because the game was all about RvR and the focus was there.

    The right idea was to focus on the RvR.
    GregorMcgregorVermillion_Raventhalcheyane

  • AdamantineAdamantine Member RarePosts: 4,276
    Havent played, and not interested in the concept. Sorry. *shrug*

    I like the idea of PvP, but players should come up with competing groups by themselves.

    Also dont like being restricted in my race choices. I want to be free to play all races and classes, thank you very much.


    GregorMcgregor
    Please set a sig so I can read your posting even if somebody "agreed" etc with it. Thanks.
  • TokkenTokken Member RarePosts: 2,189
    the game is better left as a memory (nostalgia stance)

    Make PvE GREAT Again!
  • ThaneThane Member RarePosts: 3,422
    edited April 11
    Havent played, and not interested in the concept. Sorry. *shrug*

    I like the idea of PvP, but players should come up with competing groups by themselves.

    Also dont like being restricted in my race choices. I want to be free to play all races and classes, thank you very much.


    yea, but they won't. if there are no realms, players will just form a goon squad and gank everything in sight. happened every time so far they had the chance. the russians seem to be epecially good at mass ganking as it seems.

    "I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"

  • MargraveMargrave Member RarePosts: 1,164
    Whatever EA buys dies. You can see it in their history.

    Origin and Wing Commander, Ultima Online
    WestWorld and Command and Conquer, Earth and Beyond
    BullFrog and Dungeon Keeper, Magic Carpet
    Bioware and Mass Effect, Star Wars the old Republic
    Mythic and Dark Age of Camelot, Warhammer Online

    And the list goes on.

    To maximize their profits they not only suck all the money out of a title and development studio but also all the fun out of any game they buy up. They're just developer vampires, and they should be stopped.

    I already won't buy any EA titles. I know I'm just one person, but I'm doing my part in boycotting the devils. 80 hour developer work weeks are pure evil. No wonder they churn out crap. They're dying.
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 33,932
    edited April 11
    Havent played, and not interested in the concept. Sorry. *shrug*

    I like the idea of PvP, but players should come up with competing groups by themselves.

    Also dont like being restricted in my race choices. I want to be free to play all races and classes, thank you very much.


    Er, you are free to play all races and classes.....

    Just not in the same realm.....just saying....

    I agree wirh your points which is why I played on Mordred back in the day, access to all races, classes and realm areas where it was your guild and its allies against the world.

    I'm actually hoping MJ one day considers alternate rules servers once he gets the blue servers rolling hot.

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 33,932
    edited April 11
    Thane said:
    Havent played, and not interested in the concept. Sorry. *shrug*

    I like the idea of PvP, but players should come up with competing groups by themselves.

    Also dont like being restricted in my race choices. I want to be free to play all races and classes, thank you very much.


    yea, but they won't. if there are no realms, players will just form a goon squad and gank everything in sight. happened every time so far they had the chance. the russians seem to be epecially good at mass ganking as it seems.
    Even with realms DAOC always struggled with imbalances and zerging.  MJ has said 'this time" it will be different, but I'll believe it when I see it.

    Besides, there is a good chance they'll restrict access with regional servers as they did with DAOC in the early days. (EU and Japanese as I recall.)

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • Vermillion_RaventhalVermillion_Raventhal Member EpicPosts: 3,934
    Kyleran said:
    Havent played, and not interested in the concept. Sorry. *shrug*

    I like the idea of PvP, but players should come up with competing groups by themselves.

    Also dont like being restricted in my race choices. I want to be free to play all races and classes, thank you very much.


    Er, you are free to play all races and classes.....

    Just not in the same realm.....just saying....

    I agree wirh your points which is why I played on Mordred back in the day, access to all races, classes and realm areas where it was your guild and its allies against the world.

    I'm actually hoping MJ one day considers alternate rules servers once he gets the blue servers rolling hot.

    I played that.  DOAC was ruined for me when they nerfed my cleric.
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