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Why Camalot will be able to compete with EQ II and WoW.
Kiamde
Member CommonPosts: 5,820
I believe Camalot will have the power to compete with EQ II and WoW with the new expansion
The world will become some 2/5-1/3 bigger! One of the main complaints about current camalot is the size. Servers will be more peaceful and the new graphics boost in the expansion will make it even cooler.
The underwater concept is cool [explore shunken ships for treasure, sharks, leviathan,ect] but I must admit that breathing through a magic bubble is kinda lame.
So is the fishman race
Also does anyone know where this body of water will be located? Will it be in the middle of the triad or..
Kiamde
"Whoever controls the media controls the mind..-'Jim Morrison"
"When decorum is repression, the only dignity free men have is to speak out." ~Abbie Hoffman
Comments
Kiamde
"Whoever controls the media controls the mind..-'Jim Morrison"
"When decorum is repression, the only dignity free men have is to speak out." ~Abbie Hoffman
As some things can be right and useless, can't some things be wrong and priceless? -Viktor Suikoden I
Kiamde
"Whoever controls the media controls the mind..-'Jim Morrison"
"When decorum is repression, the only dignity free men have is to speak out." ~Abbie Hoffman
As some things can be right and useless, can't some things be wrong and priceless? -Viktor Suikoden I
This is gonna be a close vote.
All MMORPGs have repetitive monsters. You obviously fought in the Gang Wars[Realm Wars].
Kiamde
"Whoever controls the media controls the mind..-'Jim Morrison"
"When decorum is repression, the only dignity free men have is to speak out." ~Abbie Hoffman
gosh guys...
the stampede is gonna run over daoc
and uo
and eq
and ao
and ac
and ac2
and ro
and sb
and swg
lol....the stampede is gonna kill a lot of em
so get over it
http://www.facebook.com/murtb
I dont see DAoC as being a competitor for WoW or EQ2 really but not because its a bad game or anything its just a very different one. DAoC is much more geared toward pvp unlike these new games coming out and is unlikely to lose a substantial portion of its players to a non pvp game imo.
I agree with misti...those games are aiming at an entirely different market to Daoc.
However... IF you are talking about competing by being judged by how many subscribers the game has...then I would have to say no... there is no way that Camelot will have anywhere near as many subscribers as EQ2 or WoW. Hell..Daoc's numbers have been falling for quite a while now, mainly because old timers like myself have become bored with the game (as is inevitable after a length of time)
Other than subscriber figures, they wont be competing at all due to the pvp and non-pvp nature of the mentioned games.
A much more interesting comparison would be to see how Daoc compares when a rival PvP game ..such as Darkfall Online is released
I think DAOC has its own little niche market with its RvR concept.
I don't know anything about WoW so can't comment. However, it seems to be calling to its own little niche market also.
EQII will give DAOC a run for its money for several reasons:
1) it's not due out until 2004 sometime, and Atlantis will be "old" by then.
2) lots of DAOC players are EQ refugees for various reasons and will want to see what EQII is like
3) EQII incorporates a lot of changes that made DAOC so attractive. Even those who really enjoy DAOC are likely to give EQII a try, if just for the new scenery.
If EQII successfully combines the good parts of EQ and the good parts of DAOC, about the only thing separating the two will be the RvR factor.
Atlantis does have some nice stuff in it - changes in concept that should revive the high-end PvE game. Whether it will reduce the EQII factor depends on how much the player base likes the new stuff.
I agree with misti, DAoC is a niche game with it's RvR component. TOA will be ok but the RvR expansion will be more important IMO.
A lot of MMORPG peak then restabalize population wise and I think you can see that in DAoC. It is not shrinking, but it isn't really growing anymore either. Same can be said of EQ and UO.
I played Daoc for two years. Most of my friends left for swg, which is not my taste so i stayed on a little longer, i sold my account on ebay other day and finally quit.
Daoc is a dying game guys, Theres very few new people joining, and they leave as fast as they join cause theres no one for them to play with. Alot of that due to the /level Mythic put into the game.
The monsters in Daoc are all the same, you fight the same monsters over and over and over. It gets so boring the only thing thats keeps most people playing is trying to get to 50 so they can goto rvr.
Now the real problems start. The game is horribly inbalanced. the stealther implementation in that game is so horrid. rvr is basically whoever has the most numbers.
And the trials expansion, is just as bad as the last one. the only reason mythic done it is so they could say they have underwater areas to. In case you havent noticed mythic is a me to type of company.
The areas are all the same theres no point to exploring, its full of boring dry timesinks. bindstones arent convienient.
If you need more about all the games problems and a dose of how stale it has gotten to everyone goto mythics home page and check out there own fansites. there completely full of unhappy customers.
Basically what killed DAOC is mythic, its not new games thats gonna kill them. it just them. They never give there customers new content,items,or anyhting excpet bug fixes or more class imbalancing except once a year or so. and then they try to push one of there horrible expansions down your throat. They quit listening to there customers, they allow buffbots to continue whixh is total bs and nothing but greed on there part.
Bah its just a bunch of crap. anyway if you never played it go ahead and try it, youll be back here in a couple months or so writing these same posts. But personnally i expect them to shut those servers down by next Xmas.
Open your eyes, close your mouth, and make a fist.
"Whoever controls the media controls the mind..-'Jim Morrison"
"When decorum is repression, the only dignity free men have is to speak out." ~Abbie Hoffman
Well if i must explain it in tiny details then ok. MONEY, and then money, and also money.
They have to pay, Water,rent,electric,janitorial staff,supplies,artist,programmers. Then they have to buy/lease computers. any 100 more items i never mentiononed.
Now, if they had around 100000 subscribers i could see them making it, but they dont. they hit a peak once, they were going somewhere. but the market is frugal, and so are people.
As i stated earlier they dont do much for game, if you look at the detail and time and effort they just put into there recent expansion. A couple months is all they worked on the game, its just big open caves underwater with a few plants at th ebottom of it. boy that took some imagination and a hell of a lot of programming. (laugh) Now Toa, if i goto a software store never having played the game, and buy a copy of it along with toa, i cant even do anything in there new expac till i git 25+, thern i cant even do the trials till i hit, 40+.
Now combine with the fact that i dont have anyone to play with since all the characters are /20ed anyways. Like i said instead of sitting here saying yeah i seen 2500 people on one of the servers go and read there own fansite posts like i said.
They dont have the money/time or people, they needed to do crucial add ons and really fine tuning of the game to keep it fresh and exciting. And having three realms also kills the game, there a small company, with limited resources spread way to thin over way to much.
As i said i think servers will be going down by next xmas, Wow, and e2 will strip them of alot of there existing customers, and they just dont have that many now.
A. WoW will have its members 2 weeks before they realizes how much it sucks.
B. EQ II is out in 5 months
C. They will both definetly get pushed to Q2-3-4-2005
Open your eyes, close your mouth, and make a fist.
"Whoever controls the media controls the mind..-'Jim Morrison"
"When decorum is repression, the only dignity free men have is to speak out." ~Abbie Hoffman
My predictions
EQ2 and WoW will DEFINATELY be released in 2004, though probably not until Q3 2004.
Neither of them will kill off Daoc, because lets face it...anybody who knows anything about mmorpgs can tell you that mmorpgs 95% of the time do not get closed down...anybody care to provide a sizeable list of p2p mmorpgs that HAVE been closed down?
No?...thats because they dont generally get closed down, the 2 games will most likely hit the subscriber numbers of Daoc, as well as several other mmorpgs, but daoc (nor any other mmorpgs), will close down completely as a result of their release
World of Warcraft is going to be based off of their romance of the Horde vs Alliance. They'll keep their cartoonish graphics (IMO; look awesome) and have very little PvP/RvR action.
DAoC is a game based solely off of RvR and PvP. Entirely different from the game mentioned above. I see no comparisons between them or why one game would choke the other out of players.
- MMORPG.COM STAFF -
KillerTwinkie - That one guy who used to mod mmorpg.com's forums.
Now if your a fanboi of Daoc and i can see some of you are, then thats great. Mythic wishes they had about 450000 more of you.
Fact is alot of people play mmorpgs for the community of it, they want to talk with people and make friends. alot play because there friends or spouse or even family plays.
And about them shutting whole games down. the mmorpg market is new. its just starting. Blizzard coming into it marks a new era in it. A multi million dollar gaming company that has a history of doing things right with the capital and people to get it done.
Now combine that with eq2, your getting ready to see a change in the market, These companys have had the ability to see what works and get an idea of what the gaming community wants. These new games will have more enjoyable timesinks and more interactive worlds to explore and play in.
Alot of mmorpgs that are out and struggling right now will fade away. alot of the newer ones that are showcased here will never get off the ground.
Theres to many disenchanted players of daoc, they will goto other games. The fanbois will hang on as long as they can then will have to migrate somewhere else also. lets face it some people would play that game even if it slapped there teeth out every time it started.
Mythic knows there model is failing thats why there trying to get imperator off the ground. You just cant have 3 seperate realms to have to design for. it takes a whole lot larger staff then they currently have. theres just not enough people to go around in the market right nwo to support all these games into the profitability thats nessacary to support them.
Below is an article that appeared on diabloii.net, the author outlines the ingredients and some cost factors in creating a mmmorpg.
In the last column, I identified the four main ingredients to successfully designing a computer game: money, intelligent people, a solid design, and strong code. Over the next four columns I will examine each one in detail, before starting on the process of game creation itself. This edition: money.
So how much do you think it costs to make a computer game? Today's computer games are complex mixtures of graphical eye-candy, music, sound effects, plot, and interface, not to mention the code behind it all. More than that, there are people behind the scenes who make it all happen.
Let's suppose you pay everyone $50k a year, and take two years to finish your game. Let's suppose you have one person working in each area of the game, so six people over two years is $600k. Add to this office space, phones, power and water bills, taxes, staplers... the numbers add up. And then you realize that you probably need another 4 people in each department to get the game finished in only two years.
After that, if you're releasing an online game, you need to buy the servers, bandwidth, hire Customer Support staff, and you need what's called a "Live Team" to keep the game updated and fresh (a future installment will be all about this team). Remember when I said Sony shells out US$1.5 million a month on Customer Support?
It really surprised me when I discovered how much it would actually cost to make a computer game. Even if most people are working for free, like the company I'm in, the costs are still there; they're just personal costs instead of company costs. They still add up when you consider gas, wear and tear on your car, the top-of-the-line computer you need to make a really good game, etc.
If you plan to create an MMORPG, and you plan to take two years to finish it, you're probably going to spend three years and $10 million creating it, and another $5 million launching it. As I mentioned in the last column, the first iteration of Shadowbane was dropped when Take-Two discovered how much it would cost to actually launch the game.
Unfortunately, unless you have people who are willing to make a game for an average wage of nothing, there's no way out of the super-high cost world of computer game design. The overuse of technology to make games look cool means that if you hope to compete in the market, your game must look at least as good as the games that came before you (I think there's already a column about this on this site). This means hiring lots of people to do the graphics, and professional graphical engineers are expensive.
So what makes it all worth it? The return on investment. Diablo 2, a game we all know and love, shipped 2 million copies to stores in the first print run, and another 1 million shortly thereafter. If each copy sold to the stores for an average of $30, that's $90 million returned on what was probably a $5 million investment. Raise your hand if it's suddenly become clear how they can run battle.net for free...
Now, if you're making a pay for play game, the numbers are a little different. You need to remember that you're not selling a game, but a service. It takes an entirely separate team to keep the game interesting after launch, and they have to be paid as well. Costs continue because income continues. Let's look at some numbers. Assuming it costs $10 a month to play:
40% expense may seem like a lot, but it's what most MMORPGs shoot for. Between Customer Support, the Live Team, power and internet costs, server upgrades, taxes... the costs add up. If you reach that 40% cost rate with 500,000 users though, the profits are pretty remarkable. If you can make it to release, and last through a few years, it's well worth the time.
The simple truth is that it takes a lot of money to make a good computer game that can compete in today's market. The money has to come from somewhere, and a later installment will be all about that, but if you can get it then you're one quarter of the way to the building blocks of your game.
Killer Twinkie, I understand your analogy but dont agree with it.
I met hundereds of people who came from Everquest to Daoc, the majority i had spoke with didnt care about rvr one way or another.
Not saying that rvr doesnt appeal to players of Daoc, there are lots of players, and even whole guilds who are entirely dedicated to rvr.
But there are thousands, yes thousands who play just for questiong and social interaction. I knew many players who never went to rvr or bg's for that matter. they quested, crafted and hunted items. heck i know for a fact i never saw half of some of the people on the servers in rvr unless it was relic raid or relic defense.
See heres what the comnpetition is, its over the genre. The midevil aspect of the games, Eq,Daoc,eq2,Horizons,Wow. There all based around that era, Yes there main stories are different and even the atmosphere, but alot of players are attracted to that type of enviorment. Castles horses magic, there all lures.
Like me for example, I dont like starwars, I like the movies, never played the game, and dont want to. It doesnt appeal to me. its a different setting, a different enviroment.
Now on the other hand Id sell my firstborn for a Startrek mmorpg.
See thats where the whetether or not it will survive comes from. Just how many players can they stand to lose to wow,swg,and eq2.
Many of my friends left for swg, some came back but alot stayed. because it catered to there likes, they wanted blasters, and jedi and wookies.
And me I want to be a Paladin in wow, they look so awesome, it sounds so fun. Maybe it will be the best mmorpg ever to date, or could be the worst, will find out after release.
But if it is good, then daoc will enevitably lose customers to wow, if eq2 is good they will lose customers to it, same way they lost some to swg.
Fact is the pool of available players is only so big, sure more come every day, but each mmorpg needs a large amount in order to be profitable. And daoc has a small portion of that pool, and from everything i can tell its only going to get smaller.
They didnt have the millions and millions of dollars to make daoc blizzard and sony poured into theres, and your going to see that in the richness and depth these new games will offer.
http://www.nickyee.com/codeblue/satisfy.html
This is a interesting poll results. It's a year old though. In Short I see DAoC having a long future. Why? because it takes work to get your characters to high level, the more work it becomes the likely people will not walk away. I see this phenomena again and again with EQ. People hate the game but they don't want to "give up" all that work.
I think the average DAoC player had a shorter half-life than other MMORPG's in the past due to the lack of content. As DAoC content grows, so does it's longevity.
Only about half of DAoC players have played other MMORPG's. So far each MMO has been able to brew their own audience, without much cannibalization. The market isn't anywhere near is saturation point yet. It will support many more MMORPGS. (including DAoC)
-=-=-=-=-
"Playing EQ to the highend is like getting hit in the head over and over. When the hitting stops you start to miss the dizzy feeling. The lack of this "dizzy feeling" will ruin you to other MMORPG's"
A: 93% E: 55% S:3% K: 50%
Games and players have a type. What type are you? click here
-=-=-=-=-
Achievers realise that killers as a concept are necessary in order to make achievement meaningful and worthwhile (there being no way to "lose" the game if any fool can "win" just by plodding slowly unchallenged). -bartle
Bartle: A: 93% E: 55% S:3% K: 50% The Test. Learn what it means here.
Most people playing EQ play because they love it, not hate it...
Yes there are those weirdos out there that like to abuse themselves but your fooling yourself if you think very many of EQs half a million subscribers are playing a game they hate. Do many of them see things they would like were different in the game, or problems that they wish would be corrected? Sure, but their enjoyment of the game is why they are willing to pay every month and play. Its been said you can only hate what you can love and vice versa.
All of the current mmorpgs will probably suffer some loses when the true second generation mmorpgs like EQ2, WoW, UXO, and Lineage 2 (sorry if im leaving some out) but like I said before, DAoC provides a type of gameplay that will not be in most of the new mmorpgs with a possible exception of Lineage 2.
Since many of DAoCs die hard fans play it specifically for the rvr I think its a different audiance that will be looking to games like EQ2 and WoW. DAoC along with all the others will lose some players but DAoC probably has more security then the others since it provides a different type of game.
The competition will be between games with similar content and gameplay like WoW and EQ2.
That was a specific example, not a generalization. My point is simple, for achievers a MMORPG is hard to walk away from and leave behind so much work. For socializes a new MMORPG is hard to play since your friends are no longer present.
If you think other MMORPG's will cannibalize DAoC you'll have to resolve why so few players of MMORPG's have played other MMORPG's.
For a variety of reason people may try a new MMORPG but they generally go back to what they know.. (in most cases that's EQ, hence my sig.)
DAoC will take hits with new MMO's, but many will come back. (just like they did to EQ) New players start everyday.
You (misti) tend to think people are somehow tricked into playing DAoC that don't like PvP (RvR) but I think those people have long since left. The current player base is one that actively enjoys RvR and probably won't play a completely PvE game. It would be very surprising if Hz, has any long term effects of DAoC. WoW may have some greater pull, since it's modeled after DAoC. (from what I am able to tell from the FAQ). But all in all, I predict a long time to come for DAoC and every other MMORPG on the list to upper-left of this message.
What will be interesting is what happens to EQ when EQ2 hits the selfs. Since that could be the 1st time when one game has been designed to cannibalize the audience of another.
There is a very thin line between love and hate.
-=-=-=-=-
"Playing EQ to the highend is like getting hit in the head over and over. When the hitting stops you start to miss the dizzy feeling. The lack of this "dizzy feeling" will ruin you to other MMORPG's"
A: 93% E: 55% S:3% K: 50%
Games and players have a type. What type are you? click here
-=-=-=-=-
Achievers realise that killers as a concept are necessary in order to make achievement meaningful and worthwhile (there being no way to "lose" the game if any fool can "win" just by plodding slowly unchallenged). -bartle
Bartle: A: 93% E: 55% S:3% K: 50% The Test. Learn what it means here.
definetly not,
i admit, the graphics are much better than EQ, but the game play just disgusts me....
the graphics will not even compare to eqii
it gets boring too quickly
i wouldnt be surprised if it dies out before 2004
http://www.facebook.com/murtb
Ah, sorry if I misunderstood your comment about EQ. As for how I feel about DAoC you couldn't be more wrong especially if you reread what I said about DAoC. I think most people who play DAoC do so because they truly enjoy its rvr element, not that they were tricked into it in anyway.
People who are more interested in PvE are simply going to find more of that type of content in pure PvE games like EQ, EQ2, and WoW. That is not intended to be a knock on DAoC, its just a different type of game for people seeking a different type of game play.
DAoC is one of the few pvp type games that has actually succeeded and maintained a strong player base who enjoy it. I just don't see the majority of those people leaving for a PvE game like EQ2 or WoW. Maybe Lineage 2 will attract some of that audience though.
The biggest MMO on earth lineage is pure PvP. EQ is only big in US/Europe markets.
" Lineage: The Blood Pledge, an online game that boasts a staggering 3 million active subscribers" - http://www.gignews.com/goddess_garriott.htm And that was in 2001. Korea is the biggest game market on Earth.
What do you define as successful? PvP games have been extremely successful. Even Shadow Bane is making money.
WoW is a RvR type game. (90% PvE) and (10% PvP) like DAoC. Blizzard must have enjoyed DAoC.
But I would agree that PvE types, and PvP types aren't going to switch genre's for a long period of time.
Edit: To provide a current link to speak for Lineage's user base. "More than four million people subscribed to Lineage" - http://www.gamespy.com/amdmmog/week1/index3.shtml
-=-=-=-=-
"Playing EQ to the highend is like getting hit in the head over and over. When the hitting stops you start to miss the dizzy feeling. The lack of this "dizzy feeling" will ruin you to other MMORPG's"
A: 93% E: 55% S:3% K: 50%
Games and players have a type. What type are you? click here
-=-=-=-=-
Achievers realise that killers as a concept are necessary in order to make achievement meaningful and worthwhile (there being no way to "lose" the game if any fool can "win" just by plodding slowly unchallenged). -bartle
Bartle: A: 93% E: 55% S:3% K: 50% The Test. Learn what it means here.