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EA & Activision CEOs Make Top 100 Overpaid Executives Report by As You Sow - MMORPG.com News

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  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 6,284
    Gdemami said:
    @Gdemami
    Well, truthfully, a lot of tech advancements were triggered by warfare. But you know, when the US created the Manhatten project (nuclear bomb) they clearly invited the illiterate and uneducated right? I mean, that Einstein guy probably had no education . . . Right. 
    ...still you are not capable to make any point.

    See my reply to Hatefull - no warfare desire, no need for atomic bomb, no need for scientists.

    Can you actually refute that?
    Warfare runs pretty deep. Is it learned or is it instinct?


    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • CryomatrixCryomatrix Member EpicPosts: 2,940
    Gdemami said:
    @Gdemami
    Well, truthfully, a lot of tech advancements were triggered by warfare. But you know, when the US created the Manhatten project (nuclear bomb) they clearly invited the illiterate and uneducated right? I mean, that Einstein guy probably had no education . . . Right. 
    ...still you are not capable to make any point.

    See my reply to Hatefull - no warfare desire, no need for atomic bomb, no need for scientists.

    Can you actually refute that?
    You are trolling me . . .but yeah.

    Education leads to technological and scientific break throughs which usually have modest impact on society except for the big ones.

    Entertainment itself doesnt have that impact unless of course you argue for entertainment providing balance and thus good mental health to people to function better. 

    Please give me a "LOL" and slither along.
    Gdemami
    Catch me streaming at twitch.tv/cryomatrix
    You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations. 
  • lahnmirlahnmir Member LegendaryPosts: 3,537
    Gdemami said:
    @Gdemami
    Well, truthfully, a lot of tech advancements were triggered by warfare. But you know, when the US created the Manhatten project (nuclear bomb) they clearly invited the illiterate and uneducated right? I mean, that Einstein guy probably had no education . . . Right. 
    ...still you are not capable to make any point.

    See my reply to Hatefull - no warfare desire, no need for atomic bomb, no need for scientists.

    Can you actually refute that?
    You are trolling me . . .but yeah.

    Education leads to technological and scientific break throughs which usually have modest impact on society except for the big ones.

    Entertainment itself doesnt have that impact unless of course you argue for entertainment providing balance and thus good mental health to people to function better. 

    Please give me a "LOL" and slither along.
    Don’t bother, by now just about everybody knows you can’t hide ignorance behind a LOL. I think LOLing a post about poverty and people dying is telling enough about someones character, or complete lack thereof.

    Some people want to debate the undebatable, that is always out of self interest, to feel important or clever. 

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir
    IselinGdemamiSBFord
    'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'

    Kyleran on yours sincerely 


    'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'

    Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...



    'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless. 

    It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.

    It is just huge resource waste....'

    Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer

  • HashbrickHashbrick Member RarePosts: 1,851
    laserit said:
    Hashbrick said:
    laserit said:
    Hashbrick said:
    laserit said:
    Hashbrick said:
    Usually the pay is determined by risk not by is it important for our society or not.  To name a few.

    CEO - Deals with all company's runnings and decisions, is the poster child of the company. If they screw up the company suffers for their decisions and behavior.

    Athlete - High pressure to perform on a daily basis until the athlete break of each sport. High danger to themselves and others when playing said game.  Risk of being disabled high.  A face for the organization they are part of, what they say and do does effect the organization even when outside the game.

    Teacher - Generally considered low risk and easy to replace. Unless popular among the community what they say/do does not effect the school as a whole.

    Farmer - Keeps to themselves their only risk is of their own equipment and fiances, does not have anything to do with a public image.

    Stocker/Fast Food - Easy to replace, zero effect to the company, issues are quickly taken care of and everyone forgets about what ever out burst happened within a week.

    Whether I think it is right or wrong doesn't matter, it just matters that everything follows the common theme of risk for pay.

    Also, @sbford, you are incorrect in giving that poster a "wtf". What he says is 100% true.
    No one is incorrect to express their feelings, you'd do well to remember that.
    A farmer takes huge risks, risks that they have no control over.

    Weather
    As a farmer for 12yrs of my life.  I completely understand what you are talking about.  However, my point is the farmer is their own risk they are not a global face for anything.  If farmer A went bankrupt no one would notice, there would be no news about it.  Again it's risk to a global entity.
    When things go sideways for farmers its usually not just one. Lets not forget the 1980's as well as other periods in recent history. 
    Again, what entity are they part of? Usually "my last name Farm" which is owned by themselves, invested in by themselves.
    "In the 1980s, American farmers were hit hard by what were, at the time, the worst economic conditions since the Great Depression. Droughts ravaged the fields, property values plunged, loan interest rates soared, thousands were forced off their land and faced foreclosure and bankruptcy. The number of suicides among male farmers in the Upper Midwest reached double the national average, according to a study by the National Farm Medicine Center. And in 1985, the Los Angeles Times dubbed farm policy one of the "toughest issues confronting Congress." "

    http://content.time.com/time/arts/article/0,8599,2023006,00.html

    The Entity they were part of is called the United States of America. 
    I get your point, collectively they all work for the people of the USA or more to the point the production companies they sell their crops/milk to.  I'm not sure I can agree that it is entity in the same sense as the 5 job roles I mentioned but I can see how one could spin it that way.  You're not at all wrong in thinking that, it made me see it a different way then I initially envisioned.  Thanks for that.
    [[ DEAD ]] - Funny - I deleted my account on the site using the cancel account button.  Forum user is separate and still exists with no way of deleting it. Delete it admins. Do it, this ends now.
  • FlyByKnightFlyByKnight Member EpicPosts: 3,967
    I think folks are confusing the words education and research. That's not even up for a semantics debate.

    But helluva OP fork/deviation gents. In a few pages I'm pretty sure we'll somehow be debating if dogs are TRULY mans best friend or if the person who came up with that saying had too much time and peanut butter.  :D
    "As far as the forum code of conduct, I would think it's a bit outdated and in need of a refre *CLOSED*" 

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • CryomatrixCryomatrix Member EpicPosts: 2,940
    edited February 2019
    I think folks are confusing the words education and research. That's not even up for a semantics debate.

    But helluva OP fork/deviation gents. In a few pages I'm pretty sure we'll somehow be debating if dogs are TRULY mans best friend or if the person who came up with that saying had too much time and peanut butter.  :D
    Cant have research without education. .. . Anyway, the article states that Kotick is overpaid based on their criteria. I agree based on their metrics, i'd use different metrics, then again, he did increase profit by almost 300 million from the prior year, so all is good.

    If i get some more cash in the future and blizzard stock stays the way it is, ill buy a bunch of it. Because if they break into the mobile market big-time and make bank, that stock will shoot up. 
    Catch me streaming at twitch.tv/cryomatrix
    You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations. 
  • mmrvmmrv Member RarePosts: 305

    SBFord said:


    swaghole said:
    btdt said:
    Reality check my friend... in the grand scheme of things a farmer is more valuable to the planet than any game designer, graphic artist or CEO of a game company. 



    One of a million farmers compared to the one and only CEO of a multi-million dollar game company. It's called logic, my guy.



    And someone has to feed and teach that "one and only" who became such as a result.

    Look, I don't begrudge CEOs good salaries, but there is only so much money a person can spend in a lifetime. I've always thought that if I were ever so fortunate, I'd be an altruist. When I was teaching, I always dreamed of having enough cash to run a school with all the modern trimmings missing in public education (where I taught, btw) and where teachers were valued for their importance to all kids -- pretty much what LeBron James is doing. :)

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/30/sports/basketball/lebron-james-akron-school.html

    I hope some of these CEOs are doing similar. If they aren't, they should.



    Egad its scary you were a teacher and you have just demonstrated why teaching is where its at along with the rest of this thread. Education is in an abysmal state.

    the irony of you glorifying lebron james in the same thread you are attempting to demonize "over paid CEO's". Lebron james earns somewhere around 40 million a year for bouncing a ball and probably close to 100 million in total, he gives away a minute portion of that money to "help others (aka other blacks not all people regardless of color, his racism is another story though)". Millions of other people play just as much basketball or wish they could without a dime of compensation, there is no larger pay gap you can imagine yet you glorified Lebron James ...I mean Yikes talk about grossly overpaid.

    Let me educate you people because your teachers failed you. Is teaching others important? Yes. Are some teachers brilliant? Yes. Do some work really hard and can the job be challenging at times? Yes. However does it take any special talent to be a teach? Nope. Nearly anyone can teach and most of us do a large amount of teaching when we are parents as all humans have throughout human existence. The qualifications to become a teach are laughable low and thus the level of academic performance for teachers is near the bottom over all. Lost performing bad c grade bachelor or arts your typical teacher...

    So someone said risk...professional athletes actually burden next to zero risk. Most sports have guaranteed contracts or atleast partially and are at a pay scale that even the rare times a career ending injury occurs they have earnings enough to life off for their entire life...no risk... Meanwhile actually risky jobs like lumberjack (highest mortality career choice) get paid little....its not risk, guess what literally anyone can be a lumberjack no special talent. Millions of people pour their lives into playing sports with all the same risks every day with zero pay...its not risk.

    someone brought up important like a farmer providing core basic human needs to the masses...guess what no special talent needed anyone can be a farmer and we have the entirety of human history to back that one up as literally through most of all human history most everyone was a farmer. Anyone can be a farmer.... Its is hard work, very, is there high risk to injury and even success (farming is dangerous work and also you have core risks like choosing the best crop to plant each season, when you harvest, random weather events etc..)? Yes, it is even critical to human survival producing essential need of food. Still doesnt pay great, why ANYONE can be a farmer no special talent.

    Its really simple its supply and demand for talent. People who have exceptional talent in an area that such talent is rare and far between will get immense privilege and extraordinary compensation. Its actually disgusting that you post this rubbish and that people fall for it. the OLD CEO HATE!!! THEY GET PAID TOO MUCH!!!! Maybe you should post a study comparing the average pay for a typical writer/actor/musician compared to the top paid ones? You thin k there is not a gross discrepancy there?? Admit it or not it takes a veryt special talent to run a huge company and only a very few people have the talent to do such a thing, its why they get paid soo much. So while you might think Koteck is doing some horrible job because you didnt get a new version of your favorite game the reality is that has nothing to do with his performance as a CEO infact if anything it shows how dam good he is at being a CEO...You know what a CEO job is? IOTS TO MAKE THE COMPANY PROFITS. blizz/act had records profits....meaning he DID AN AMAZING JOB AS A CEO! He isnt a product designer, he isnt a content creator, he is a CEO he makes all of the decisions of the core running of the company with the goal of earning the company profits.

    Hate him for not taking the product line where you might want it to go, but irregardless his performance as a CEO this last year was matter of fact outstanding.

    So to sum it up in most every case in our society people are grossly overpaid its not just greedy CEO's or greedy individuals...its actually a problem of YOU, ME, THE MASSES its us the average little peasant joe flock of mindless sheep that results in these people people vastly overpaid....why BECAUSE WE KEEP GIVING THEM ALL OF OUR MONEY as we mindlessly rush out to pay 200 dollars to watch someone sing songs for 2 hours, buy their next album, line up at the movie theater, pre order the cruddy game we know next to nothing about, line up at starbucks each day to pay 4 dollars for a 23 cent coffee, buy that jersey for 120 dollars because it says "lebron" on the back. why do we do this? Because these rare special people in the human race have some very rare special talent and also are utterly amazing at the talent. They actually are 1 in millions...hell billions. Now don't ask me why humans are designed such a way but that is the answer as to why lebron makes 50 million to play basketball but millions of others of us love playing basketball just as much, take the same risks of playing (without a dime of pay) for thousands of hours of our lives and we get nothing just dream of being like lebron.
    Gdemamiswaghole
  • mmrvmmrv Member RarePosts: 305

    laserit said:


    Hashbrick said:


    laserit said:


    Hashbrick said:


    laserit said:


    Hashbrick said:

    Usually the pay is determined by risk not by is it important for our society or not.  To name a few.

    CEO - Deals with all company's runnings and decisions, is the poster child of the company. If they screw up the company suffers for their decisions and behavior.

    Athlete - High pressure to perform on a daily basis until the athlete break of each sport. High danger to themselves and others when playing said game.  Risk of being disabled high.  A face for the organization they are part of, what they say and do does effect the organization even when outside the game.

    Teacher - Generally considered low risk and easy to replace. Unless popular among the community what they say/do does not effect the school as a whole.

    Farmer - Keeps to themselves their only risk is of their own equipment and fiances, does not have anything to do with a public image.

    Stocker/Fast Food - Easy to replace, zero effect to the company, issues are quickly taken care of and everyone forgets about what ever out burst happened within a week.

    Whether I think it is right or wrong doesn't matter, it just matters that everything follows the common theme of risk for pay.



    Also, @sbford, you are incorrect in giving that poster a "wtf". What he says is 100% true.


    No one is incorrect to express their feelings, you'd do well to remember that.


    A farmer takes huge risks, risks that they have no control over.

    Weather


    As a farmer for 12yrs of my life.  I completely understand what you are talking about.  However, my point is the farmer is their own risk they are not a global face for anything.  If farmer A went bankrupt no one would notice, there would be no news about it.  Again it's risk to a global entity.


    When things go sideways for farmers its usually not just one. Lets not forget the 1980's as well as other periods in recent history. 


    Again, what entity are they part of? Usually "my last name Farm" which is owned by themselves, invested in by themselves.


    "In the 1980s, American farmers were hit hard by what were, at the time, the worst economic conditions since the Great Depression. Droughts ravaged the fields, property values plunged, loan interest rates soared, thousands were forced off their land and faced foreclosure and bankruptcy. The number of suicides among male farmers in the Upper Midwest reached double the national average, according to a study by the National Farm Medicine Center. And in 1985, the Los Angeles Times dubbed farm policy one of the "toughest issues confronting Congress." "

    http://content.time.com/time/arts/article/0,8599,2023006,00.html

    The Entity they were part of is called the United States of America. 



    Kind of silly logic lol. I mean if we are going to extend such poor reasoning everything is always part of an entity...you know "planet earth". Furthermore if we are going to cite "emotional" low points I guess stock brokers fall into the same category when the market crashes and they all lose everything and start committing suicide? I mean this is the standard you are attempting to set?

    Reality is Farming is hard dangerous work, it is critically vital to all of humanity, there is even immense fiscal risk when they choose the crop to plant, when to harvest, many other details they can control let alone things out of their control like weather events. That said the reason farmers are undervalued in general is it takes no special talent to be a farmer, any can do it and throughout history everyone has done it, its not until very recently that people have been afforded the luxury of not producing their own food. Farming is literally the "invention" that enabled humanity to flourish and become what it is....yet again most anyone is capable of being a farmer and thus it carries very little overall "value" to society, which is why Beyonce will make 40 million for some "silly" 10 song album" and joe farmer guy is scraping long year to year unsure when he may go bankrupt., all the while some other singer is starving barely getting by making minimal money for singing at a local tavern every day, while beyonce flies around in private jets...talk about inequality huh? and you thought CEO's where bad.
    GdemamiSBFord
  • FlyByKnightFlyByKnight Member EpicPosts: 3,967
    I think folks are confusing the words education and research. That's not even up for a semantics debate.

    But helluva OP fork/deviation gents. In a few pages I'm pretty sure we'll somehow be debating if dogs are TRULY mans best friend or if the person who came up with that saying had too much time and peanut butter.  :D
    Cant have research without education. .. . Anyway, the article states that Kotick is overpaid based on their criteria. I agree based on their metrics, i'd use different metrics, then again, he did increase profit by almost 300 million from the prior year, so all is good.

    If i get some more cash in the future and blizzard stock stays the way it is, ill buy a bunch of it. Because if they break into the mobile market big-time and make bank, that stock will shoot up. 
    The bold statement is false. It's a fundamentally clear cut distinction (and possibly what is triggering the local LOL bot).

    One doesn't need an education to perform research. Research is the chicken, education is the egg.

    I'm not even going to back and forth about this. Everyone else can have at it.

    I'll be back for the tree falling in the forest portion of the discussion.  :D
    "As far as the forum code of conduct, I would think it's a bit outdated and in need of a refre *CLOSED*" 

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 12,071
    Education leads to technological and scientific break throughs which usually have modest impact on society except for the big ones.

    Entertainment itself doesnt have that impact unless of course you argue for entertainment providing balance and thus good mental health to people to function better. 
    ....just more of the same blanket, nonsense statements.

    But yeah, asking for any rationale that would support your "opinion" is deemed as trolling...

    Um...yeah...
    parrotpholkFlyByKnight
  • SBFordSBFord Former Associate EditorMember LegendaryPosts: 33,126
    edited February 2019
    mmrv said:

    Egad its scary you were a teacher and you have just demonstrated why teaching is where its at along with the rest of this thread. Education is in an abysmal state.

    the irony of you glorifying lebron james in the same thread you are attempting to demonize "over paid CEO's". Lebron james earns somewhere around 40 million a year for bouncing a ball and probably close to 100 million in total, he gives away a minute portion of that money to "help others (aka other blacks not all people regardless of color, his racism is another story though)". Millions of other people play just as much basketball or wish they could without a dime of compensation, there is no larger pay gap you can imagine yet you glorified Lebron James ...I mean Yikes talk about grossly overpaid.
    I will not answer your post point-by-point but we certainly can begin with "agree to disagree". 

    Firstly, you know nothing about my legacy as a teacher so please don't cast aspersions where you have no leg to stand on. You disagree with my example of altruism in action. That's fine but it does not negate the hundreds of students I taught and the joy I took in doing so.

    Secondly, with regard to LeBron James. I know and understand that he makes an enormous salary and makes even more on top of it with endorsements. I further get that he doesn't give all of his money away and, in fact, what he does give to charity is probably a drop in his financial bucket. However, I still celebrate the altruistic move he has made with the school that he is funding. He's doing something extraordinary for children who would never have had such opportunities were it not for him. 

    "So shines a good deed in a weary world." as Willie Wonka so put it in the first film.

    My parents taught me to share with others, to look for need and try to fill it, even in a small way. Gestures small and large that uplift someone else are virtues that we should all champion. After all, every single one of us is a passenger on planet Earth and one day each of us may be in a position where we need a hand or we can extend one to someone else. I hope we all do, including the people on this list, as I'm sure many of them do.

    Lastly, I would never mock you or your work or your legacy if I knew what it was. I don't know you, I don't know your situation or your heart or your passion for your job or whatever it is that brings you joy in this world. I should hope you could return in kind. The world needs more kindness and less tearing down of people we do not know.
    Gdemamiparrotpholkgervaise1MadFrenchieNyteWytchTacticalZombehIselinNildenswagholeCryomatrixand 2 others.


    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 


  • FlyByKnightFlyByKnight Member EpicPosts: 3,967
    edited February 2019
    Going after athletes for "bouncing a ball" and getting paid, while minimizing their physical talents in comparison to normal folks who "wish they could", AND calling them racist for giving back "minutely" to their respective communities but absolutely ignoring the BILLIONAIRES who own the teams and the stadiums and overcharge you plebs for beer and hot dogs.

    [mod edit] This thread is paying dividend. Keep it going.  :D
    Post edited by Vaross on
    GdemamiparrotpholkMadFrenchieSBFordswaghole
    "As far as the forum code of conduct, I would think it's a bit outdated and in need of a refre *CLOSED*" 

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • NildenNilden Member EpicPosts: 3,073
    Gdemami said:
    Cryomatrix said:
    It is painfully obvious that teaching is more important than entertainment. 
    ...is it? What are your metrics? Your "feelings"...?

    It's pretty obvious whatever education system you were in has completely failed you.
    parrotpholkHatefullKyleran

    "You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon

    "classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon

    Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer



  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 17,676
    edited February 2019
    Then with more money made,they need to appear the salaries/bonuses are warranted so they will be even bigger asshats.Forcing employees to bend over backwards to keep turning out game after game as fast as possible,keep the money train going.

    What i have seen from gaming the last 10 years is that NOBODY stops and thinks "is this game actually good enough" or does half the ideas make any sense".Nope in stead i see a timeline, cost budget,play a bunch of head games/marketing and sell it as is.

    Gaming right now is a terrible market,everyone vying for gimmicks and con jobs to turn profits,nobody wants to fit a huge debt in hopes it pays off after many years.Nobody wants to build a complete well thought out game,get one idea in mind and go with it and be fast with it.

    Point is,i couldn't care less about ANY top gaming exec,they are all over paid,crap at their jobs,not worth a minute of my time.

    "LAYOFFS" lmao,i would walk into everyone of these big offices and start with the top,GTFO is what would be in the memo or more appro i would say it to their faces,door's over there bud gtfo.
    swagholeCryomatrix

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • mmrvmmrv Member RarePosts: 305
    SBFord said:
    mmrv said:

    Egad its scary you were a teacher and you have just demonstrated why teaching is where its at along with the rest of this thread. Education is in an abysmal state.

    the irony of you glorifying lebron james in the same thread you are attempting to demonize "over paid CEO's". Lebron james earns somewhere around 40 million a year for bouncing a ball and probably close to 100 million in total, he gives away a minute portion of that money to "help others (aka other blacks not all people regardless of color, his racism is another story though)". Millions of other people play just as much basketball or wish they could without a dime of compensation, there is no larger pay gap you can imagine yet you glorified Lebron James ...I mean Yikes talk about grossly overpaid.
    I will not answer your post point-by-point but we certainly can begin with "agree to disagree". 

    Firstly, you know nothing about my legacy as a teacher so please don't cast aspersions where you have no leg to stand on. You disagree with my example of altruism in action. That's fine but it does not negate the hundreds of students I taught and the joy I took in doing so.

    Secondly, with regard to LeBron James. I know and understand that he makes an enormous salary and makes even more on top of it with endorsements. I further get that he doesn't give all of his money away and, in fact, what he does give to charity is probably a drop in his financial bucket. However, I still celebrate the altruistic move he has made with the school that he is funding. He's doing something extraordinary for children who would never have had such opportunities were it not for him. 

    "So shines a good deed in a weary world." as Willie Wonka so put it in the first film.

    My parents taught me to share with others, to look for need and try to fill it, even in a small way. Gestures small and large that uplift someone else are virtues that we should all champion. After all, every single one of us is a passenger on planet Earth and one day each of us may be in a position where we need a hand or we can extend one to someone else. I hope we all do, including the people on this list, as I'm sure many of them do.

    Lastly, I would never mock you or your work or your legacy if I knew what it was. I don't know you, I don't know your situation or your heart or your passion for your job or whatever it is that brings you joy in this world. I should hope you could return in kind. The world needs more kindness and less tearing down of people we do not know.


    I know nothing of your "legacy" but I can see your thoughts and processes every day. You seem to eagerly jump into the bucket of "trashing corporate america" taking on all of the poorly and flat out incorrect tropes of the PC outrage gangs of today. I was simply pointing out how flawed some of the points you posted. To justify lebrons "altruism" with zero knowledge of any of the "mean old corporations" contributions and donations is just as silly as pointing out lebron as a poster child of "equality" when he is as big of an example of the evil CEO issue you demonize as anyone. The hypocrisy of demanding noone can comment on your lifes legacy while out the other side of your mouth condemning people you know NOTHING ABOUT you know those greedy evil people running corporations!

    You know how many people are put into poverty in the first place by lebrons greedy and endless wealth accrual?  do you understand for every box of Wheaties/t-shirt/shoes etc... with his image the price of those Wheaties increases for that average joe family he is supposedly doing so much to save by making a little school with a minuscule part of his wealth that is most likely done for tax write off reasons? Its ghastly that you hold him up as somehow "better" when you know nothing of neither him or the CEO's you condemn, yet demand you deserve what you don't practice??

    Its very myopic thinking and imho a shining example of the education systems failures for many decades now as it has been hijacked by agenda driven leftist and education and the kids and people have all suffered for it. so sorry I do have a leg to stand on when it comes to my "aspersions". You were merely a pointed example but again we have that victim mongering thing cropping up again where we have to cry foul instead of simply accept criticism.

    Guess what most everyone parents taught them similar things including mine which is why I feel compelled to question people who spew out rhetoric which seems more self serving than "generous" who is actually benefiting from the thoughts and prayers for those who lost their jobs? the people who lost the jobs or those who get to pat themselves on the backs feeling they did their part!  I am a great person look at me trying to help out with some kind words.

    Lastly you did mock me as you painted me as some terrible human casting unwarranted aspersions about a stranger (you), but apparently thats okay because well you say so. If you were opening minded you would have read my post seen the wisdom in the words instead of try to turn into into a "personal attack" when you were only briefly mentioned. You might learn something about the world you seem to eager to condemn and all of the amazing people who don't get "poor soul signed random internet person comments" that persist through every day struggles. the world is a complicated place and simplistic  rhetoric like EVIL ceo but WORLD SAVIOR LEBRON! are a shallow insult to many of us and our families, a teacher should be the last type of person that should be espousing such shallow doctrines.

    PS I often see you being the person to introduce complex/political issues into gaming which I think is great and interesting, but then you are also the first person to shut down the continuation on that subject matter by posters when it doesn't align with your beliefs (which I think isnt good).

    In the end I think my point stands though you might disagree in its presentation, that people in the world who are exceptional at uncommon talents will draw the most "payment" whatever that payment be money/resources/fame. People who have exception talents at running large companies are rare compared to say being a school teacher and that makes them a rare commodity which is why they get paid so much no different that top actors, writers, musicians, athletes etc that most people blindly give a pass while attacking "corporate america" or CEO's. This is the way the world has always been long before "evil corporations" came along. Feel free to present some alternative thoughts I would love to have the discussion and hopefully garner some personal learning and growth.
    Gdemami
  • mmrvmmrv Member RarePosts: 305
    Wizardry said:
    Then with more money made,they need to appear the salaries/bonuses are warranted so they will be even bigger asshats.Forcing employees to bend over backwards to keep turning out game after game as fast as possible,keep the money train going.

    What i have seen from gaming the last 10 years is that NOBODY stops and thinks "is this game actually good enough" or does half the ideas make any sense".Nope in stead i see a timeline, cost budget,play a bunch of head games/marketing and sell it as is.

    Gaming right now is a terrible market,everyone vying for gimmicks and con jobs to turn profits,nobody wants to fit a huge debt in hopes it pays off after many years.Nobody wants to build a complete well thought out game,get one idea in mind and go with it and be fast with it.

    Point is,i couldn't care less about ANY top gaming exec,they are all over paid,crap at their jobs,not worth a minute of my time.

    "LAYOFFS" lmao,i would walk into everyone of these big offices and start with the top,GTFO is what would be in the memo or more appro i would say it to their faces,door's over there bud gtfo.
    I would agree with you, and I put the responsibility onto the customers. Why would they ever improve their products when we keep lining up to purchase at higher and higher rates of their garbage? I mean there are endless people spewing out money for "pre alpha" trash at this point, I took my stand a while ago refuse to buy into this crap in hopes the market might change but alas here is the real crux of the gaming industry THE PRIMARY CUSTOMERS ARE KIDS AND IMMATURE PEOPLE who by their nature have low self control and are impulsive, so they not only feed into it but also lack the characteristics needed to impose change. I honestly cannot think of another product or service that can get away with such utter irresponsibility and incompetence as the gaming industry. Not even just the products its the service people being banned for "toxic" behavior you ever heard of another industry banning adults for the be anything you say "toxic behavior"?? I mean imagine going to Walmart talking to your friend on the phone and being told you are no longer aloud to enter any Walmart because a customer complained about the content of your conversation with your friend.

    Its utterly disgusting what the gaming industry is getting away with right now.
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 14,312
    SBFord said:
    mmrv said:

    Egad its scary you were a teacher and you have just demonstrated why teaching is where its at along with the rest of this thread. Education is in an abysmal state.

    the irony of you glorifying lebron james in the same thread you are attempting to demonize "over paid CEO's". Lebron james earns somewhere around 40 million a year for bouncing a ball and probably close to 100 million in total, he gives away a minute portion of that money to "help others (aka other blacks not all people regardless of color, his racism is another story though)". Millions of other people play just as much basketball or wish they could without a dime of compensation, there is no larger pay gap you can imagine yet you glorified Lebron James ...I mean Yikes talk about grossly overpaid.
    I will not answer your post point-by-point but we certainly can begin with "agree to disagree". 

    Firstly, you know nothing about my legacy as a teacher so please don't cast aspersions where you have no leg to stand on. You disagree with my example of altruism in action. That's fine but it does not negate the hundreds of students I taught and the joy I took in doing so.

    Secondly, with regard to LeBron James. I know and understand that he makes an enormous salary and makes even more on top of it with endorsements. I further get that he doesn't give all of his money away and, in fact, what he does give to charity is probably a drop in his financial bucket. However, I still celebrate the altruistic move he has made with the school that he is funding. He's doing something extraordinary for children who would never have had such opportunities were it not for him. 

    "So shines a good deed in a weary world." as Willie Wonka so put it in the first film.

    My parents taught me to share with others, to look for need and try to fill it, even in a small way. Gestures small and large that uplift someone else are virtues that we should all champion. After all, every single one of us is a passenger on planet Earth and one day each of us may be in a position where we need a hand or we can extend one to someone else. I hope we all do, including the people on this list, as I'm sure many of them do.

    Lastly, I would never mock you or your work or your legacy if I knew what it was. I don't know you, I don't know your situation or your heart or your passion for your job or whatever it is that brings you joy in this world. I should hope you could return in kind. The world needs more kindness and less tearing down of people we do not know.
    Well said.

    It takes the lowest of space wasting low life scum to throw a lol on that post.
    NildenGdemami[Deleted User]Hatefull
    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

    "... the "influencers" which is the tech name we call sell outs now..."
    __ Wizardry, 2020
  • goboygogoboygo Member RarePosts: 2,140
    Their not getting overpaid if that's what their making and the inverse is also true.
    GdemamiCryomatrix
  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 6,284
    mmrv said:

    laserit said:


    Hashbrick said:


    laserit said:


    Hashbrick said:


    laserit said:


    Hashbrick said:

    Usually the pay is determined by risk not by is it important for our society or not.  To name a few.

    CEO - Deals with all company's runnings and decisions, is the poster child of the company. If they screw up the company suffers for their decisions and behavior.

    Athlete - High pressure to perform on a daily basis until the athlete break of each sport. High danger to themselves and others when playing said game.  Risk of being disabled high.  A face for the organization they are part of, what they say and do does effect the organization even when outside the game.

    Teacher - Generally considered low risk and easy to replace. Unless popular among the community what they say/do does not effect the school as a whole.

    Farmer - Keeps to themselves their only risk is of their own equipment and fiances, does not have anything to do with a public image.

    Stocker/Fast Food - Easy to replace, zero effect to the company, issues are quickly taken care of and everyone forgets about what ever out burst happened within a week.

    Whether I think it is right or wrong doesn't matter, it just matters that everything follows the common theme of risk for pay.



    Also, @sbford, you are incorrect in giving that poster a "wtf". What he says is 100% true.


    No one is incorrect to express their feelings, you'd do well to remember that.


    A farmer takes huge risks, risks that they have no control over.

    Weather


    As a farmer for 12yrs of my life.  I completely understand what you are talking about.  However, my point is the farmer is their own risk they are not a global face for anything.  If farmer A went bankrupt no one would notice, there would be no news about it.  Again it's risk to a global entity.


    When things go sideways for farmers its usually not just one. Lets not forget the 1980's as well as other periods in recent history. 


    Again, what entity are they part of? Usually "my last name Farm" which is owned by themselves, invested in by themselves.


    "In the 1980s, American farmers were hit hard by what were, at the time, the worst economic conditions since the Great Depression. Droughts ravaged the fields, property values plunged, loan interest rates soared, thousands were forced off their land and faced foreclosure and bankruptcy. The number of suicides among male farmers in the Upper Midwest reached double the national average, according to a study by the National Farm Medicine Center. And in 1985, the Los Angeles Times dubbed farm policy one of the "toughest issues confronting Congress." "

    http://content.time.com/time/arts/article/0,8599,2023006,00.html

    The Entity they were part of is called the United States of America. 



    Kind of silly logic lol. I mean if we are going to extend such poor reasoning everything is always part of an entity...you know "planet earth". Furthermore if we are going to cite "emotional" low points I guess stock brokers fall into the same category when the market crashes and they all lose everything and start committing suicide? I mean this is the standard you are attempting to set?

    Reality is Farming is hard dangerous work, it is critically vital to all of humanity, there is even immense fiscal risk when they choose the crop to plant, when to harvest, many other details they can control let alone things out of their control like weather events. That said the reason farmers are undervalued in general is it takes no special talent to be a farmer, any can do it and throughout history everyone has done it, its not until very recently that people have been afforded the luxury of not producing their own food. Farming is literally the "invention" that enabled humanity to flourish and become what it is....yet again most anyone is capable of being a farmer and thus it carries very little overall "value" to society, which is why Beyonce will make 40 million for some "silly" 10 song album" and joe farmer guy is scraping long year to year unsure when he may go bankrupt., all the while some other singer is starving barely getting by making minimal money for singing at a local tavern every day, while beyonce flies around in private jets...talk about inequality huh? and you thought CEO's where bad.


    Isn't part of being a citizen and a country looking out for one another? Or is it seeing your country men as prey?

    Stock holders have been bailed out many, many, times. 

    https://projects.propublica.org/bailout/list

    When it comes to being a CEO, its just as much who you know as it is what you know. 

    FYI:

    I'm a business owner: Metal fabrication and manufacturing.

    I pay myself about 3 times the average salary of my employees and I also have other investments that pay quite handsomely on my scale. I don't like stocks, I like industrial real estate.  I own my business like I own my shoes, as in I owe nothing. My father always said: in the good times prepare for the bad times because they always come. He also said the bigger you get the more head aches you have.

    If things go sideways there will be no bailouts for me. 
    GdemamiCryomatrixHashbrick

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • esc-joconnoresc-joconnor Member RarePosts: 1,097

    swaghole said:



    SBFord said:




    swaghole said:
    btdt said:
    Reality check my friend... in the grand scheme of things a farmer is more valuable to the planet than any game designer, graphic artist or CEO of a game company. 





    One of a million farmers compared to the one and only CEO of a multi-million dollar game company. It's called logic, my guy.






    And someone has to feed and teach that "one and only" who became such as a result.

    Look, I don't begrudge CEOs good salaries, but there is only so much money a person can spend in a lifetime. I've always thought that if I were ever so fortunate, I'd be an altruist. When I was teaching, I always dreamed of having enough cash to run a school with all the modern trimmings missing in public education (where I taught, btw) and where teachers were valued for their importance to all kids -- pretty much what LeBron James is doing. :)

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/30/sports/basketball/lebron-james-akron-school.html

    I hope some of these CEOs are doing similar. If they aren't, they should.






    And does anyone here know how these two CEOs are using their money? No? Okay then, thanks for showing your concern.



    I understand that someone has to be taught/fed to live and learn, but crying over how much the two top ranking members of a company with a $7 billion revenue? Absurd to me, especially when you compare them to teachers or farmers, two very common jobs at this point in time.



    Yes, you are more important to society if you're a teacher,farmer, etc. But you do not deserve as much pay as these CEOs. Your comparisons are idiotic if you actually think them through.



    Yes, that's not fair at all.
    Teachers and farmers actually add value to the world. 99% of CEOs could disappear and that would probably add value to the world.
    Gdemami
  • mmrvmmrv Member RarePosts: 305
    laserit said:
    mmrv said:

    laserit said:



    Also, @sbford, you are incorrect in giving that poster a "wtf". What he says is 100% true.


    No one is incorrect to express their feelings, you'd do well to remember that.


    A farmer takes huge risks, risks that they have no control over.

    Weather


    As a farmer for 12yrs of my life.  I completely understand what you are talking about.  However, my point is the farmer is their own risk they are not a global face for anything.  If farmer A went bankrupt no one would notice, there would be no news about it.  Again it's risk to a global entity.


    When things go sideways for farmers its usually not just one. Lets not forget the 1980's as well as other periods in recent history. 


    Again, what entity are they part of? Usually "my last name Farm" which is owned by themselves, invested in by themselves.


    "In the 1980s, American farmers were hit hard by what were, at the time, the worst economic conditions since the Great Depression. Droughts ravaged the fields, property values plunged, loan interest rates soared, thousands were forced off their land and faced foreclosure and bankruptcy. The number of suicides among male farmers in the Upper Midwest reached double the national average, according to a study by the National Farm Medicine Center. And in 1985, the Los Angeles Times dubbed farm policy one of the "toughest issues confronting Congress." "

    http://content.time.com/time/arts/article/0,8599,2023006,00.html

    The Entity they were part of is called the United States of America. 



    Kind of silly logic lol. I mean if we are going to extend such poor reasoning everything is always part of an entity...you know "planet earth". Furthermore if we are going to cite "emotional" low points I guess stock brokers fall into the same category when the market crashes and they all lose everything and start committing suicide? I mean this is the standard you are attempting to set?

    Reality is Farming is hard dangerous work, it is critically vital to all of humanity, there is even immense fiscal risk when they choose the crop to plant, when to harvest, many other details they can control let alone things out of their control like weather events. That said the reason farmers are undervalued in general is it takes no special talent to be a farmer, any can do it and throughout history everyone has done it, its not until very recently that people have been afforded the luxury of not producing their own food. Farming is literally the "invention" that enabled humanity to flourish and become what it is....yet again most anyone is capable of being a farmer and thus it carries very little overall "value" to society, which is why Beyonce will make 40 million for some "silly" 10 song album" and joe farmer guy is scraping long year to year unsure when he may go bankrupt., all the while some other singer is starving barely getting by making minimal money for singing at a local tavern every day, while beyonce flies around in private jets...talk about inequality huh? and you thought CEO's where bad.


    Isn't part of being a citizen and a country looking out for one another? Or is it seeing your country men as prey?

    Stock holders have been bailed out many, many, times. 

    https://projects.propublica.org/bailout/list

    When it comes to being a CEO, its just as much who you know as it is what you know. 

    FYI:

    I'm a business owner: Metal fabrication and manufacturing.

    I pay myself about 3 times the average salary of my employees and I also have other investments that pay quite handsomely on my scale. I don't like stocks, I like industrial real estate.  I own my business like I own my shoes, as in I owe nothing. My father always said: in the good times prepare for the bad times because they always come. He also said the bigger you get the more head aches you have.

    If things go sideways there will be no bailouts for me. 

    I'm not sure anymore what being a citizen means, it once did mean what you said but I think you are more likely to be beaten, or robbed by a fellow citizen now adays than helped, and what about the government who keeps taking the citizens tax money and dishing it out to support illegal aliens and foreign governments instead of the citizens? I'm not really sure where you are going with this but if its to defend the statement of the "entity being america" Again if thats the standard then well we got the planet and isnt that what it means to be part of the human race....sorry it was simply a poor point you made.

    Again though make no mistake farmers have also been bailed out many many times as well, and i will disagree with your generalization on what being a CEO means and that its only who you know lol. Make no mistake people are not throwing millions and millions at some baffoon who knows nothing but a friend of a friend put in a good word ROFL. Its the easy out to pretend there is not a very special skill that only some people have which is required to build/organize and run a large corporation. Its not a issue about importance, its an issue of supply. trust me if there were 1 million dudes chilling out who were just as good at basketball as lebron james he too would only be making 50k a year its not the case though he is 1 in billions level talent (however you want to describe talent) and so he makes 50 million.

    FYI I also own my own business, I also owe nothing and there will be no bailouts for me and I was raised by a single dirt poor mother who was bouncing around terrible foster homes by age 12 and her mother  shared food with the farm animals they were so poor, which means nothing to this conversation does it?
    laseritCryomatrixesc-joconnor
  • mmrvmmrv Member RarePosts: 305
    Going after athletes for "bouncing a ball" and getting paid, while minimizing their physical talents in comparison to normal folks who "wish they could", AND calling them racist for giving back "minutely" to their respective communities but absolutely ignoring the BILLIONAIRES who own the teams and the stadiums and overcharge you plebs for beer and hot dogs.

    Sounds about white. This thread is paying dividend. Keep it going.  :D
    lol huh? the topic was overpaid employees, its a valid comparison. Its kind of bizarre you somehow will validate the value of someone physical talent over the common man but ignore "mental" talents which as a matter of fact are also a manifestation of your physical talents as the brain is a physical organic organ no different than muscle twitch. Even more odd is that was my entire point the main issue in lopsided income in an economic environment like the USA is Talent and the supply and demand of it. Its why lebron gets 50 million to play ball and i get nothing, its why taylor swift makes 50 million to make music and I make nothing, and its why this kotek fellow makes 28 million to run blizzard and I get nothing. They all have more talent in their respective areas and that talent is so exceptional and rare it commands such a value. Its simply delusional to be in denial that a top CEO doesnt have a special talent that is rare and thus commands such a price.

    Owners of companies is an entire separate topic imho. Billionaires give back to communities as well... and ya I think  your racist when you chose to only help people of a certain color skin its pretty much the definition of racism.
    GdemamiCryomatrixHashbrick
  • HatefullHatefull Member EpicPosts: 2,297
    Gdemami said:
    Hatefull said:
    Without someone to teach others how to be entertainers (in any discipline) they would not be entertainers.
    ...if there is no desire for entertainers, there is no need for "entertainer teachers". Kinda chicken and egg problem, isn't it?
    Scientific advancements and new technology and breakthroughs were the result of people being taught shit. 

    ...or they are a by-product/tools of other desires? Self-preservation, warfare, power, wealth...entertainment...?

    So again, what is your metrics of importance?
    No, it is not a chicken or egg situation. Where are you from that your basic education did not include logic or critical thinking? You are doing an amazing job of proving my points however, I will explain it again.

    At some point, way back before electricity, someone did something others thought was entertaining. And it occurred to this... let's call it the creator of entertainment for conversation purposes or simply creator, that hey! Maybe I can do this and charge people shiny rocks to watch me do it. So, the creator did just that. Creator enjoyed great success also.

    Eventually, let's say many years later, Creator realized that he could entertain anyone anywhere. One day Creator is walking down the street and he sees a younger version of himself. Let's call this person "wannabe". So Creator watches Wannabe and realizes that while Wannabe has the desire, Wannabe just has no talent. So the Creator has an epiphany. And he tells Wannabe, hey Wannabe, all the things you are going to have to figure out, in order to be entertaining, I already know. I can teach you, but it will cost you one shiny stone a week. Instead of taking years of work, we can get you entertaining in a few weeks time. What do you think?

    So Wannabe has a decision to make. Either take the training from Creator, or suffer through all of those lessons Creator had to go through over years. Because Wannabe wants his own shiny rocks, he takes the training. Maybe eventually Wannabe becomes a Master Entertainer and improves on Creators techniques and passes those improved lessons down to the next Wannabe. rinse and repeat, we have Video games.

    You can apply this rather oversimplified opus (don't laugh Suzie) to about anything that is taught today. Most people would rather learn at least theory in a classroom and then go out and get practical experience. Ergo Colleges, Universities, and Trade schools are pretty popular. As well as of course Primary education.

    Education is the cornerstone of civilized society. That is not an opinion, that is a fact that was established...well a long time before electricity came out a hole in your wall.

    GdemamiCryomatrixSBFordHashbrick

    If you want a new idea, go read an old book.

  • HatefullHatefull Member EpicPosts: 2,297
    lahnmir said:
    Gdemami said:
    Hatefull said:
    Without someone to teach others how to be entertainers (in any discipline) they would not be entertainers.
    ...if there is no desire for entertainers, there is no need for "entertainer teachers". Kinda chicken and egg problem, isn't it?
    Scientific advancements and new technology and breakthroughs were the result of people being taught shit. 

    ...or they are a by-product/tools of other desires? Self-preservation, warfare, power, weatlth...entertainment...?

    So again, what if your metrics of importance?
    So, a debate for the sake of a debate it is. Insulting to more then 50% of the world population too poor to enjoy education to get a better life, escaping temporarily into entertainment because they can’t afford better.

    You truly don’t have a clue about the actual world. Come talk to me when you have seen children dying of hunger, when you see people starving just so they can put ONE kid through college, when you have seen the necessity for child labor in India because families can’t do without it, when you have seen six year olds take ten mile trips to school and back, when you have visited these schools, have talked to local councils in third world countries. A small hint, I have done ALL of the above, your ignorance and verbal masturbation is an insult.

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir
    It appears we may have walked some of the same trails. 
    lahnmirSBFordKyleran

    If you want a new idea, go read an old book.

  • FlyByKnightFlyByKnight Member EpicPosts: 3,967
    mmrv said:
    Going after athletes for "bouncing a ball" and getting paid, while minimizing their physical talents in comparison to normal folks who "wish they could", AND calling them racist for giving back "minutely" to their respective communities but absolutely ignoring the BILLIONAIRES who own the teams and the stadiums and overcharge you plebs for beer and hot dogs.

    Sounds about white. This thread is paying dividend. Keep it going.  :D
    lol huh? the topic was overpaid employees, its a valid comparison. Its kind of bizarre you somehow will validate the value of someone physical talent over the common man but ignore "mental" talents which as a matter of fact are also a manifestation of your physical talents as the brain is a physical organic organ no different than muscle twitch. Even more odd is that was my entire point the main issue in lopsided income in an economic environment like the USA is Talent and the supply and demand of it. Its why lebron gets 50 million to play ball and i get nothing, its why taylor swift makes 50 million to make music and I make nothing, and its why this kotek fellow makes 28 million to run blizzard and I get nothing. They all have more talent in their respective areas and that talent is so exceptional and rare it commands such a value. Its simply delusional to be in denial that a top CEO doesnt have a special talent that is rare and thus commands such a price.

    Owners of companies is an entire separate topic imho. Billionaires give back to communities as well... and ya I think  your racist when you chose to only help people of a certain color skin its pretty much the definition of racism.


    It's not a valid comparison because it's moronically lacking context of the markets and industry. Bringing up Lebron James while ignoring Dan Gilbert or Mickey Arison is dumb AF and absolutely typical.

    The conversation is about the growing pay ratio disparity between employees and executives and how when cutting corners and min/maxing the executives take home is never taken into consideration.

    If you think Lebron James is racist for giving back to his community, on top of thinking he discriminates in his charitable donations you're a fucking idiot. I won't be too surprised at any foolery that comes out your fingers beyond this point.
    GdemamiSBFordesc-joconnor
    "As far as the forum code of conduct, I would think it's a bit outdated and in need of a refre *CLOSED*" 

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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