Playing evil..

Lord.Bachus

i haven’t been able to play a real evil character since the orriginal EQ.
thats the last game where actions seemed to have real consequences.

is it that hard to make a game where actions good or evil, have real consequences?

iixviiiix

Is it not evil enough for one to murder cute animal and other human ?

Cryomatrix

Elaborate on what you mean by evil? What do you want to do?

Lord.Bachus

iixviiiix said:

Is it not evil enough for one to murder cute animal and other human ?

No it does not feel evil if no one cares..
for feeling evil, the game needs to react on your actions..

this is what orriginally in EQ where factions for..
in WoW negative faction does do nothing..
in EQ having negative faction in a main city had you k.o.s.

Scot

For me that would be more down to roleplaying, EQ2 in fact was one of the best I have seen for that.

The OP is not really talking about what should occur if you are evil, what he is talking about is do factions make a difference in MMOs, mostly they don't. So why is this what happened that made factions into colour that effected gameplay in no meaningful way? Easy mode is what happened and as part of that never making you might later regret. So factions usually had powers associated with them or special sets of gear, the grass is always greener on the other side and that's what a lot of players end up thinking.

Easymode means a player should never have to think about a choice in a game, there are no negatives so you can have no regrets. The impact this has on making MMOs seem meaningless is ignored by gaming studios, easymode must come first.

But also the degree of colour can be lacking, if they don't make a song and dance about that why bother with factions at all?

Palebane

Seems to me its harder to be a nice person in these games today. Most are indifferent, with a large amount of real assholes thrown in. If players had alignments the amount of good ones would be very lacking, imo. All you have to do to be evil is ridicule other players’ every choice and insist that all loot drops go to you.

Lord.Bachus

Palebane said:

Seems to me its harder to be a nice person in these games today. Most are indifferent, with a large amount of real assholes thrown in. If players had alignments the amount of good ones would be very lacking, imo.

Palebane said:

Seems to me its harder to be a nice person in these games today. Most are indifferent, with a large amount of real assholes thrown in. If players had alignments the amount of good ones would be very lacking, imo.

I thinkyou are mixing up things..
i can definately roleplay an evil character
and still be a nice person..
espescially in a pve game

Palebane

Lord.Bachus said:

Palebane said:

Seems to me its harder to be a nice person in these games today. Most are indifferent, with a large amount of real assholes thrown in. If players had alignments the amount of good ones would be very lacking, imo.

Palebane said:

Seems to me its harder to be a nice person in these games today. Most are indifferent, with a large amount of real assholes thrown in. If players had alignments the amount of good ones would be very lacking, imo.

I thinkyou are mixing up things..
i can definately roleplay an evil character
and still be a nice person..
espescially in a pve game

But would you trust a dickhead to roleplay a good character?

Albatroes

You can kill npcs and steal in ESO, if npcs see you doing it then guards k.o.s. depending on your bounty. Can go to the thieves guild to pay it off with gold with the amount slowly diminishing over time.

Maurgrim

One of the best aspect of SWTOR when playing a Sith, more evil things you do more evil you look in your face.

Amathe

See evil character below:

Cryomatrix

ikcin said:

Like if you are a pirate in EVE. Or in red clan in Lineage 2. Or a pirate in AA. Or a PKer in Tera, where the PK is actually rewarded. I started from the best to the worst case of RP.

Or if you are a "LOL" pirate on forums . . . 

ChildoftheShadows

Jean-Luc_Picard said:

Lord.Bachus said:

i haven’t been able to play a real evil character since the orriginal EQ.
thats the last game where actions seemed to have real consequences.

is it that hard to make a game where actions good or evil, have real consequences?

The problem is that for most "evil" MMORPG players, be it oldtimers from the UO times or younger ones, being "evil" means ganking lowbies/newbies non stop and always looking for the weakest prey to gank with as little risk as possible to increase your "evilness".

That’s how it ends up in pvp games, but EQ being evil was a role play sewn into every fabric of the game.  

Lord.Bachus

Jean-Luc_Picard said:

Lord.Bachus said:

i haven’t been able to play a real evil character since the orriginal EQ.
thats the last game where actions seemed to have real consequences.

is it that hard to make a game where actions good or evil, have real consequences?

The problem is that for most "evil" MMORPG players, be it oldtimers from the UO times or younger ones, being "evil" means ganking lowbies/newbies non stop and always looking for the weakest prey to gank with as little risk as possible to increase your "evilness".

I am not talking that kind of evil, i am stricktly talking PvE, and the world reacting to me..   there is a difference between roleplaying evil, and the game allowing it... and commiting evil acts against other players..  which is okay for me, when the game has mechanics in place that hurt players for pk-ing lowbees and other such actions...

Amathe

I remember being a wood elf in Kelethin in original EQ. There was an iksar monk who came to town to fight the guards. To my amazement he could solo them. Then he would let the loot timer expire so that newbs like me could collect what they dropped (trash to most, a fortune to a new player). He may have been "evil," but I loved that guy.

centkin

Thing is when EQ2 first came out the evil side was really oppressive and punishing.  It was FAR harder to play from the evil side than the good side which was all gumdrops and lollipops and saving cats from trees it was painful. 

The pure oppression that you felt playing evil in early EQ2 was ever-present and always tangible. 

The upshot of this was actually that the evil PCs tended to work together and the good PCs tended to steal nodes and such.  It was a very interesting psychological experiment.

Sovrath

I don't think he means "evil" so much as having a faction (whatever that faction is, including evil) and your actions will dictate how you are addressed/accepted/reacted to in the game.

So he can be "evil" do a pve evil thing and then the guards or a citadel or group will think of him as an enemy.

In truth I wish more games had this type of stuff.

Maybe a city where magic is outlawed and if a player uses magic in site of a guard or some such thing, he/she will be arrested.

Like a Han Solo character who is really wanted because of smuggling.

Amaranthar

I like the idea of a player being able to play a special evil Boss-like monster.
With allied dungeons as their "cities" and safe zones, allied to the MOBs, buying and selling to MOBs only.
And with body parts that are highly valued by players for spell components and potion and magical item creation.

Maybe with a set number of lives, like maybe 9.

Perhaps regular characters could run through special quests to reveal if they were substituted as a babe in the cradle and magically turned into a human (or other player race), and then the means to turn into their true selves, the Monster type. If they wanted to, or continue as a human or other regular player race.

iixviiiix

List of how to become evil in MMORPG

Using toxic words on everyone

Do KS and PK newbie and noob

Do ninja loot

Do RMT

Start to bot

Run mutilple box with bot

End with hax

Did that and you will become evil , enough to get ban :> whales are exception

BTW , my most evil act (not in MMORPG) steal all clothe in skyrim and make everyone go naked .

Evil don't kill , they corrupt other , to stay corrupted , target need to be alive :>

AlBQuirky

Deleted for irrelevance.

Wizardry

Lord.Bachus said:

iixviiiix said:

Is it not evil enough for one to murder cute animal and other human ?

No it does not feel evil if no one cares..
for feeling evil, the game needs to react on your actions..

this is what orriginally in EQ where factions for..
in WoW negative faction does do nothing..
in EQ having negative faction in a main city had you k.o.s.

Well two responses here.

1 I wouldn't look at Wow for ANY good game design answers because it is designed like crap,like some kid designed the systems.

2 I do not feel factions were designed around good /evil,they were simply there as the yare used by many games,to feed a GRIND system.Even though it was just a grind,yes i still like ideas like that in my games.
EQ2 had the same setup and often by aiding one faction you LOSE favor with another,except that idea is good on paper but makes no sense,how do the other factions know you are aiding other ones?

Foe me,ideas NEED to make sense or even the good ideas can be badly implemented.

"Consequences"well SWTOR gave their spin, a terribly crappy spin on the idea,i rather have no consequences than SWTOR.
To answer your question .."is it so hard"lmao,you kidding me,it is Sooooooooooo hard for devs just to get the BASIC core designs done right.If i was starting my own studio i might never hire anyone because the yall seem so incompetent to me.

So for now rather than WAIT,you try and find games that feel like bad decisions can end up real bad.Even still how is a coder/system designer going to create "consequence?"You know it will b done very simply by an automated sub program and never come off as an immersive idea,other words,it will look like computer code more so than a character in a world.