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The Golden Age PvP

bcbullybcbully Westland, MIMember RarePosts: 9,423
I think we’re in it ladies and gents. Just about every multi-player game being released seems to be heavily pvp oriented. On top of that, the ones that have been released seem to be doing well. 

Some of you know i’ve been around here for awhile. Four or so years ago I looked like the crazy man standing on a crate talking about “PvErs the end is upon you”. 

My questions to you diehard dungeoneers and questateers, how are you guys taking this change? Are you still gaming? Are you holding out for the days
yore, like the cole miners? Have you began to re-educate yourself for today’s  fast paced world? 

What are your thoughts?

Yours Truly, 
The Bull
alkarionlog
«1

Comments

  • PhryPhry OxfordshireMember EpicPosts: 10,333
    Golden Age? more just lazy development, its easier, less time consuming and consequently cheaper to make a PVP game than a PVE one, not only that PVP games tend to be shorter lived than PVE ones, hence the higher degree of churn, remember h1z1, then there was PUBG, then Fortnite, and now Apex, PVP games might be easier to make, but they sure do have a limited shelf life. :p
    bcbullyRhoklawArteriusScotalkarionlogGdemamiHatefulltadams2toneAlteiir
  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIMember RarePosts: 9,423
    Phry said:
    Golden Age? more just lazy development, its easier, less time consuming and consequently cheaper to make a PVP game than a PVE one, not only that PVP games tend to be shorter lived than PVE ones, hence the higher degree of churn, remember h1z1, then there was PUBG, then Fortnite, and now Apex, PVP games might be easier to make, but they sure do have a limited shelf life. :p
    I see your not taking the change well. 
    Rhoklawalkarionlogtadams2tone
  • PhryPhry OxfordshireMember EpicPosts: 10,333
    bcbully said:
    Phry said:
    Golden Age? more just lazy development, its easier, less time consuming and consequently cheaper to make a PVP game than a PVE one, not only that PVP games tend to be shorter lived than PVE ones, hence the higher degree of churn, remember h1z1, then there was PUBG, then Fortnite, and now Apex, PVP games might be easier to make, but they sure do have a limited shelf life. :p
    I see your not taking the change well. 
    What change? In case you haven't noticed and i am guessing you haven't, games like Apex have become hugely popular, but they haven't drawn new players from PVE games like FFXIV:ARR or ESO etc. they took them from Fortnite and PUBG. I would expect EPIC to react to this fairly soon, wonder how they are handling the 'change'  :p
    bcbullyScotGdemamiHatefull
  • iixviiiixiixviiiix GSMember RarePosts: 1,773
    edited February 11
    Phry said:
    Golden Age? more just lazy development, its easier, less time consuming and consequently cheaper to make a PVP game than a PVE one, not only that PVP games tend to be shorter lived than PVE ones, hence the higher degree of churn, remember h1z1, then there was PUBG, then Fortnite, and now Apex, PVP games might be easier to make, but they sure do have a limited shelf life. :p
    Say that to dota and LOL , they last for 10 years ready . And you still see people playing CS nowadays . They all PVP focus game .

    In fact , PVE focus game is the one that have limited shelf life , because you can't put contents out as fast as people beating it .
    Post edited by iixviiiix on
    bcbullyalkarionlog
  • PhryPhry OxfordshireMember EpicPosts: 10,333
    iixviiiix said:
    Phry said:
    Golden Age? more just lazy development, its easier, less time consuming and consequently cheaper to make a PVP game than a PVE one, not only that PVP games tend to be shorter lived than PVE ones, hence the higher degree of churn, remember h1z1, then there was PUBG, then Fortnite, and now Apex, PVP games might be easier to make, but they sure do have a limited shelf life. :p
    Say that to dota and LOL , they last for 10 years ready . And you still see people playing CS nowadays . They all PVP focus game .
    Yes, they were weren't they  ;)
    Now how big are those games these days outside of the Asian market  :p
    Hatefull
  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIMember RarePosts: 9,423
    edited February 11
    Phry said:
    bcbully said:
    Phry said:
    Golden Age? more just lazy development, its easier, less time consuming and consequently cheaper to make a PVP game than a PVE one, not only that PVP games tend to be shorter lived than PVE ones, hence the higher degree of churn, remember h1z1, then there was PUBG, then Fortnite, and now Apex, PVP games might be easier to make, but they sure do have a limited shelf life. :p
    I see your not taking the change well. 
    What change? In case you haven't noticed and i am guessing you haven't, games like Apex have become hugely popular, but they haven't drawn new players from PVE games like FFXIV:ARR or ESO etc. they took them from Fortnite and PUBG. I would expect EPIC to react to this fairly soon, wonder how they are handling the 'change'  :p
    My beloved ESO. Wildstar chose the raid or die path, while ESO built Cyridil.

    You couldn’t become Emperor and change the entire world for every player running dungeons ;)
    Post edited by bcbully on
  • PhryPhry OxfordshireMember EpicPosts: 10,333
    bcbully said:
    Phry said:
    bcbully said:
    Phry said:
    Golden Age? more just lazy development, its easier, less time consuming and consequently cheaper to make a PVP game than a PVE one, not only that PVP games tend to be shorter lived than PVE ones, hence the higher degree of churn, remember h1z1, then there was PUBG, then Fortnite, and now Apex, PVP games might be easier to make, but they sure do have a limited shelf life. :p
    I see your not taking the change well. 
    What change? In case you haven't noticed and i am guessing you haven't, games like Apex have become hugely popular, but they haven't drawn new players from PVE games like FFXIV:ARR or ESO etc. they took them from Fortnite and PUBG. I would expect EPIC to react to this fairly soon, wonder how they are handling the 'change'  :p
    My beloved ESO. Wildstar chose the raid or die path, while ESO built Cyridil.

    You couldn’t become Emperor and change the entire world for ever player running dungeons ;)
    Or ignore Cyrodiil altogether and just do dungeons with friends etc. Got to have the PVE after all, or its a dead game, more dungeons in the last expac too, funny that  ;)
  • RhoklawRhoklaw Ft. Bliss, TXMember EpicPosts: 6,042
    The funny thing about PvP games is the obvious attraction of the "competitive atmosphere" which oddly enough doesn't really even exist thanks to all the people who cheat. Most of my friends who play games like Fortnite, don't even play for the PvP aspect, but rather the for the seasonal achievements or new skins to unlock.
    ArteriusbcbullyPhryHatefull

  • ArteriusArterius Member UncommonPosts: 333
    I don't mind. I like PVP every now and again. I suck at it but I find it fun. Saying that there is plenty of PVE offerings to keep me busy.

    My go to right now is FFXIV while I wait for Pantheon. Not saying that game is going to do huge numbers. I am not crazy. Recently Brad said they only need 10-20k subs to keep the lights on. I hope they can easily do 100k just from the people who are going to jump in for the nostalgia among the people who are just hyped for the game. We shall see. Depends on how long the game actually takes and how good it is at launch as well.

    So yes most MMO's are going PVP and I am fine with that as long as PVE games don't completely die. I mean I am waiting for Camelot Unchained with bated breath hoping that game turns out great. I do play PVE more though.

    So I am doing fine but don't count PVE games out. I do agree with others above. PVP is easy and cheap to make depending on the game your making of course. Not only that but it draws in huge numbers on twitch and the like. Meaning that streamers are more likely to play PVP games then a PVE game. Hence why The New World (Amazons game) I think will be mostly PVP focused.

    PVE games will never die you just don't hear about them as often anymore because they aren't whats hot at the moment. They aren't mainstream right now. Doesn't mean they aren't being made. Yoshi P (The man who makes FFXIV) said that as of right now he doesn't see a end in sight for FFXIV because SquareEnix themselves can't imagine there company without and that was only at the last fan festival. PVE games are still going strong. Even WoW though people will say differently. 

    Are they doing as well as they did. Of course not but I do believe it is still the most played MMO just look at how well battle for Azeroth sold. Even if it didn't make as much as Activision wanted. I believe it was still the most bought expansion.

    https://www.gamespot.com/articles/wows-new-expansion-battle-for-azeroth-sets-a-sales/1100-6461380/

    bcbully
  • ScotScot UKMember EpicPosts: 10,137
    There certainly a lot more PvP about, just not sure I would call in Golden.

    We have kiddified games like Fortnite and content light survival games as the new flagships of PvP. If you think that's better than a proper shooter or Realm versus Realm MMO then you need to aim higher, high enough to hit your opposition's head. :)
    Lokero

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  • CryomatrixCryomatrix Cambridge, MAMember RarePosts: 2,171
    I used to duel in diablo 2 hardcore, no hacks, no cheats in my early 20's, 10 years later, i was doing 1v1 competitively in starcraft 2 and when i lost for stupidity, i'd smash my mouse. 

    Now im a few years short of 40 and i dont have the heart to pvp any more . . . In survival games i go with pve first, perhaps because the pvp is surviving before i go against another player. 


  • WargfootWargfoot Gramsfoot, MIMember UncommonPosts: 132
    There are more MMORPGs that have PvE as a feature than MMORPGs that have PvP as a feature.

    Feel free to hang your head in shame and shuffle towards the exit.
    You'll receive a participation ribbon in the mail in 6-8 weeks.
    Phry
  • DMKanoDMKano Gamercentral, AKMember LegendaryPosts: 19,738
    If "golden age of PvP" = battle royale - then yes.

    For me personally nothing has matched DAoC vanilla and Planetside 1 (vanilla). Heck even WoW vanilla had decent PvP.

    Other games with decent PvP - (all vanilla versions) - Asherons call, AoC, Aion, ArcheAge, ESO.
    ScotPhryparrotpholkultimateducktweedledumb99laserit
  • alkarionlogalkarionlog SMember RarePosts: 2,044
    golden age of pvp was around 2k year with some MMOrpg who place a lot on pvp for a end, be it to keep forts or to get rewards, in the end people organized to a end.

    nowadays? looks more like small tribes trying to scrape by what is left from the golden ages, you just pop in try to play then move on

    op looks like is 18 mYo or something, not old enough to know what he is missing, with is kinda nice for him, he can get happy with the lazy games today

    iixviiiix said:
    Phry said:
    Golden Age? more just lazy development, its easier, less time consuming and consequently cheaper to make a PVP game than a PVE one, not only that PVP games tend to be shorter lived than PVE ones, hence the higher degree of churn, remember h1z1, then there was PUBG, then Fortnite, and now Apex, PVP games might be easier to make, but they sure do have a limited shelf life. :p
    Say that to dota and LOL , they last for 10 years ready . And you still see people playing CS nowadays . They all PVP focus game .

    In fact , PVE focus game is the one that have limited shelf life , because you can't put contents out as fast as people beating it .
    that is actually a problem, only moba who is still alive is LOL and Dota all the others come and goes
    FOR HONOR, FOR FREEDOM.... and for some money.
  • SovrathSovrath Boston Area, MAMember LegendaryPosts: 25,751
    bcbully said:
    I think we’re in it ladies and gents. Just about every multi-player game being released seems to be heavily pvp oriented. On top of that, the ones that have been released seem to be doing well. 

    Some of you know i’ve been around here for awhile. Four or so years ago I looked like the crazy man standing on a crate talking about “PvErs the end is upon you”. 

    My questions to you diehard dungeoneers and questateers, how are you guys taking this change? Are you still gaming? Are you holding out for the days
    yore, like the cole miners? Have you began to re-educate yourself for today’s  fast paced world? 

    What are your thoughts?

    Yours Truly, 
    The Bull
    I love pvp but haven't seen any pvp games worth playing.


    HatefullalkarionlogLokerolaserit



  • ThaneThane berlinMember RarePosts: 3,155
    bcbully said:
    I think we’re in it ladies and gents. Just about every multi-player game being released seems to be heavily pvp oriented. On top of that, the ones that have been released seem to be doing well. 

    Some of you know i’ve been around here for awhile. Four or so years ago I looked like the crazy man standing on a crate talking about “PvErs the end is upon you”. 

    My questions to you diehard dungeoneers and questateers, how are you guys taking this change? Are you still gaming? Are you holding out for the days
    yore, like the cole miners? Have you began to re-educate yourself for today’s  fast paced world? 

    What are your thoughts?

    Yours Truly, 
    The Bull
    errrm.... "every multi-player game"?
    shesh. your view is kinda.... restricted dude.


    Anthem, Division 2, FarCry New Dawn, Gears5, MechWarrior5, Mortal Kombat 11, Rage 2, Wolfenstein Youngblood...

    sorry, but i tend to disagree on that one.

    PvP is a niche, will always be. there are a few PvP games comming out, and even less of them which i am interested in (Camelot Unchained)...

    so... could you maybe mention all those pvp games comming? bc i must have somehow missed em

    "I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"

  • WargfootWargfoot Gramsfoot, MIMember UncommonPosts: 132
    Thane said:



    PvP is a niche, will always be. there are a few PvP games comming out, and even less of them which i am interested in (Camelot Unchained)...
    I think you can say MMORPG PvP is a niche.
    PvP games in general are huge.

    Another way of saying this: 
    Games with significant progression/customization where people can be much more powerful than new players will always be niche; whereas, face-rolling twitch-fests are very popular.
    Mendel
  • TheocritusTheocritus Gary, INMember EpicPosts: 6,524
    and I think this trend is why I am finding myself playing more single player games than multiplayer. I agree with others saying that PVP is a lazy way of making a game.
  • WargfootWargfoot Gramsfoot, MIMember UncommonPosts: 132
    I don't think it is fair to say that the PvP approach is lazy.

    It would be more accurate to say that PvP adds a great deal of challenge and replay ability for relatively little cost - up until a point.  It seems to me the pure PvP games (Battlefield) seem to go away rather quickly compared to, I dunno, a game like Runescape.

    IMHO, the big problem with MMORPGs anymore is they don't have nearly the depth or flexibility they had at one time - so now I'm wondering if the PvP focus has a bit to do with that - oh dear, I just talked myself into the lazy viewpoint.

    Disregard this post.
  • SovrathSovrath Boston Area, MAMember LegendaryPosts: 25,751
    and I think this trend is why I am finding myself playing more single player games than multiplayer. I agree with others saying that PVP is a lazy way of making a game.
    There is nothing lazy about it. One can say that creating a dull system of blithely handing out quests, have people collect them, run to the glowy area, do very little and run back, or better yet, get a popup to close out the quest, is equally lazy.

    And no, it's not hard to write up these quests.





  • parrotpholkparrotpholk Leland, NCMember RarePosts: 4,121
    If by golden age you mean hopping in and out of 10 minute BR matches then sure I guess you are welcome to call it that.  There is nothing to adjust too.  I could ramble off all the single player or pve games that were huge last year but google would take less time.

    I enjoy pvp and have played many games which are focused on it but we are not in any golden age or huge change in direction.  If anything we are regressing into 10 minute mini matches which are great for sitting on the shitter with my phone.
  • alkarionlogalkarionlog SMember RarePosts: 2,044
    Sovrath said:
    and I think this trend is why I am finding myself playing more single player games than multiplayer. I agree with others saying that PVP is a lazy way of making a game.
    There is nothing lazy about it. One can say that creating a dull system of blithely handing out quests, have people collect them, run to the glowy area, do very little and run back, or better yet, get a popup to close out the quest, is equally lazy.

    And no, it's not hard to write up these quests.


    no is not, theme park games tend to be a lot of text, with most don't read, i'm crazy enough to read all my quests given at least once, if I don't bother to read it, then the game is really short lived for my interest, with means I will quit soon

    and I don't read anyone saying pvp is lazy, we are saying the gameplay lately(last 5 years) is lazy, taht means ALL games, its the same thing over and over, with no creative thing behind, with in the end when we mention a old game saying we want that, most devs will just try to copy the way the game did(and doing it badly) but forgot the essense of what make these games great, they was teh very first to do something and put enough effort to see every detail, with we lack a lot today,

    hell I tell you this making a good pvp game is a lot harder then a themed park
    FOR HONOR, FOR FREEDOM.... and for some money.
  • SovrathSovrath Boston Area, MAMember LegendaryPosts: 25,751
    edited February 11
    Sovrath said:
    and I think this trend is why I am finding myself playing more single player games than multiplayer. I agree with others saying that PVP is a lazy way of making a game.
    There is nothing lazy about it. One can say that creating a dull system of blithely handing out quests, have people collect them, run to the glowy area, do very little and run back, or better yet, get a popup to close out the quest, is equally lazy.

    And no, it's not hard to write up these quests.


    no is not, theme park games tend to be a lot of text, with most don't read, i'm crazy enough to read all my quests given at least once, if I don't bother to read it, then the game is really short lived for my interest, with means I will quit soon

    and I don't read anyone saying pvp is lazy, we are saying the gameplay lately(last 5 years) is lazy, taht means ALL games, its the same thing over and over, with no creative thing behind, with in the end when we mention a old game saying we want that, most devs will just try to copy the way the game did(and doing it badly) but forgot the essense of what make these games great, they was teh very first to do something and put enough effort to see every detail, with we lack a lot today,

    hell I tell you this making a good pvp game is a lot harder then a themed park
    Well, this is Theocritus:" I agree with others saying that PVP is a lazy way of making a game." And that is the statement I responded to.

    I'm like you, if i don't read the text of a quest then the game is not worth playing and "yes" making a pvp game that keeps people, that gives solid reasons to pvp is very hard.
    Post edited by Sovrath on



  • coretex666coretex666 PragueMember EpicPosts: 3,542
    edited February 11
    For me, the enjoyable aspect of PvP, at least in MMOs / MMORPGs, is the politics surrounding it rather than the contest between myself and another player in itself.

    I remember in Lineage 2, there were alliances, territory control, eventual betrayals...it created a lot of drama and emotions. It was one of the best PvP experiences I ever had.

    When I just want to measure my skills against another player, I play CSGO or something similar.

    This is not the golden age of MMO / MMORPG PvP for me. Good for you that you are having fun though.
    Post edited by coretex666 on
  • iixviiiixiixviiiix GSMember RarePosts: 1,773
    edited February 11
    golden age of pvp was around 2k year with some MMOrpg who place a lot on pvp for a end, be it to keep forts or to get rewards, in the end people organized to a end.

    nowadays? looks more like small tribes trying to scrape by what is left from the golden ages, you just pop in try to play then move on

    op looks like is 18 mYo or something, not old enough to know what he is missing, with is kinda nice for him, he can get happy with the lazy games today

    iixviiiix said:
    Phry said:
    Golden Age? more just lazy development, its easier, less time consuming and consequently cheaper to make a PVP game than a PVE one, not only that PVP games tend to be shorter lived than PVE ones, hence the higher degree of churn, remember h1z1, then there was PUBG, then Fortnite, and now Apex, PVP games might be easier to make, but they sure do have a limited shelf life. :p
    Say that to dota and LOL , they last for 10 years ready . And you still see people playing CS nowadays . They all PVP focus game .

    In fact , PVE focus game is the one that have limited shelf life , because you can't put contents out as fast as people beating it .
    that is actually a problem, only moba who is still alive is LOL and Dota all the others come and goes
    That's because idk about that genre and those 2 are one who still in top condition , you sure there aren't any gem that hidden around ? for example OW is PVP , TF2 is PVP . most FPS games are PVP , RTS game too . Card games also PVP .
    I just disagree with him that he said PVP focus game have limited shelf life



    Post edited by iixviiiix on
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