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What makes a game "Not Fun"

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Comments

  • UngoodUngood Member EpicPosts: 2,758
    Gorwe said:
    Ungood said:
    Gorwe said:
    Ungood said:
    Kyleran said:
    Ungood said:
    I would like to interject something.

    Yes, Fun is a subjective term. With that said, this was a matter of what individuals find "Not Fun" and I want to be clear, there is no right or wrong answer to this question.

    No one has the right to tell anyone what they should or should not enjoy.

    So bogging this thread down with semantics, is a complete waste of time, but I am sure that the people have opted to take that direction have found it fun.


    I didn't mean to bog things down, I really wasn't sure what you wanted from the OP, it was in a later post where you clarified the context I was able to better reply. 

    Semantics actually can be very important, especially if the "meaning" of words is not agreed upon.

    Try asking a question like this for some real hilarity.

    "What sandbox MMO is the best or most fun?'

    My guess is we'll need to come to an agreement on about 4 or 5 words to get a consistent response, if it would really even be possible. 

    ;)


    I agree with you here, but a lot of that rests on "Best" aspect of that, which than turns this into some kind of e-peen waving absolute, as opposed to saying "What Sandbox MMO did you have the most fun in"

    In that case, different people will have different flavors, and as opposed to an arbitrary "best" where the largest stumbling block happens, it's more a "What did you enjoy"

    I am sure I could have made a much more Hot Button topic, if I had asked "What game sucks the most" and would not even need to define "Sucks" vs "Blows" to have a SHTF discussion, as I have put an absolute into the intention of the topic.

    Which was not my goal here, I simply wanted to see what some other players do not enjoy in game, what makes a game "Not Fun" to you.. I wager, in my own negligence in that regard, I should have affixed the "To you" but I took the gamble that it was implied.

    The example by @Ganksinatra hit home with me, as I also like Arena Battle games, and when it feels like people on the other team are cheating, it just totally ruins the match and kills all the fun from the fight. It just gives me the vibe that If I wanted to fight a Bot, I'd play a PvE game, ya know?

    Apparently, fun is defined as, basically: Fun = f(pleasure). Therefore, it's very subjective. That also explains why it is rather easy to define and unify the meaning of "unfun / not fun". Because not many people enjoying grinding or being milked or heavy focus on difficulty or competition. Not many people like to being told what to do as well. Because in all those cases your basic pleasure principle gets overwritten. Also, an activity can be pleasurable, without being actually fun.

    ...in short, it's all very personal, but the words need to be defined, otherwise we're all yapping about...whatever.
    Did you have fun writing that?
    Well, it was pleasurable researching that, not necessarily fun, due to some other properties of fun. Writing isn't often pleasurable(I'm rather clumsy ; or that's how I see myself anyhow), but it needs to be stated. I'd rather speak, than write, but whatever can be done?
    Well, I guess if you can't define what is fun for yourself, then it does not matter what definition anyone else uses.

    Palebane
  • UngoodUngood Member EpicPosts: 2,758
    Equally so.. again.. Fun is Subjective. 

    You either find something fun or you Don't.. if you can't even define for yourself what Fun is, then perhaps this discussion might not be the right place for you.

    However, If you want to discuss what "Fun" means, because you would have fun getting to a semantics discussion about the term Fun, you can start your own topic and have fun there.. if starting your own topic would not be fun for you, I can start the topic for you, so you can have fun discussing the merits of the term Fun in your topic about the merits of the term fun.

    But coming here to derail the thread is uncouth.
  • GorweGorwe Member EpicPosts: 6,003
    Ungood said:
    Gorwe said:
    Ungood said:
    Gorwe said:
    Ungood said:
    Kyleran said:
    Ungood said:
    I would like to interject something.

    Yes, Fun is a subjective term. With that said, this was a matter of what individuals find "Not Fun" and I want to be clear, there is no right or wrong answer to this question.

    No one has the right to tell anyone what they should or should not enjoy.

    So bogging this thread down with semantics, is a complete waste of time, but I am sure that the people have opted to take that direction have found it fun.


    I didn't mean to bog things down, I really wasn't sure what you wanted from the OP, it was in a later post where you clarified the context I was able to better reply. 

    Semantics actually can be very important, especially if the "meaning" of words is not agreed upon.

    Try asking a question like this for some real hilarity.

    "What sandbox MMO is the best or most fun?'

    My guess is we'll need to come to an agreement on about 4 or 5 words to get a consistent response, if it would really even be possible. 

    ;)


    I agree with you here, but a lot of that rests on "Best" aspect of that, which than turns this into some kind of e-peen waving absolute, as opposed to saying "What Sandbox MMO did you have the most fun in"

    In that case, different people will have different flavors, and as opposed to an arbitrary "best" where the largest stumbling block happens, it's more a "What did you enjoy"

    I am sure I could have made a much more Hot Button topic, if I had asked "What game sucks the most" and would not even need to define "Sucks" vs "Blows" to have a SHTF discussion, as I have put an absolute into the intention of the topic.

    Which was not my goal here, I simply wanted to see what some other players do not enjoy in game, what makes a game "Not Fun" to you.. I wager, in my own negligence in that regard, I should have affixed the "To you" but I took the gamble that it was implied.

    The example by @Ganksinatra hit home with me, as I also like Arena Battle games, and when it feels like people on the other team are cheating, it just totally ruins the match and kills all the fun from the fight. It just gives me the vibe that If I wanted to fight a Bot, I'd play a PvE game, ya know?

    Apparently, fun is defined as, basically: Fun = f(pleasure). Therefore, it's very subjective. That also explains why it is rather easy to define and unify the meaning of "unfun / not fun". Because not many people enjoying grinding or being milked or heavy focus on difficulty or competition. Not many people like to being told what to do as well. Because in all those cases your basic pleasure principle gets overwritten. Also, an activity can be pleasurable, without being actually fun.

    ...in short, it's all very personal, but the words need to be defined, otherwise we're all yapping about...whatever.
    Did you have fun writing that?
    Well, it was pleasurable researching that, not necessarily fun, due to some other properties of fun. Writing isn't often pleasurable(I'm rather clumsy ; or that's how I see myself anyhow), but it needs to be stated. I'd rather speak, than write, but whatever can be done?
    Well, I guess if you can't define what is fun for yourself, then it does not matter what definition anyone else uses.

    It matters a great deal. I'm just not that focused on emotional experiences: they come, they go and I am unsure of just what I'm feeling. Let's just focus on good emotions, yeah?

    Because if it's not properly defined, everything can be anything. And that can be confusing. No reason for that.
  • UngoodUngood Member EpicPosts: 2,758
    Gorwe said:
    It matters a great deal. I'm just not that focused on emotional experiences: they come, they go and I am unsure of just what I'm feeling. Let's just focus on good emotions, yeah?

    Because if it's not properly defined, everything can be anything. And that can be confusing. No reason for that.
    If you not sure of your own feelings... the Definition of Fun:


    : what provides amusement or enjoyment

    I don't think is going to help you.
  • GorweGorwe Member EpicPosts: 6,003
    edited February 11
    Ungood said:
    Gorwe said:
    It matters a great deal. I'm just not that focused on emotional experiences: they come, they go and I am unsure of just what I'm feeling. Let's just focus on good emotions, yeah?

    Because if it's not properly defined, everything can be anything. And that can be confusing. No reason for that.
    If you not sure of your own feelings... the Definition of Fun:


    : what provides amusement or enjoyment

    I don't think is going to help you.
    Just because it helps(or does not) myself, does not in any way imply whether it can(or can not) help others. I just enjoy greatly finding out what's what. And I fully believe this can help more introspective people.
  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 6,118
    Well... It was fun until her daddy took the T-Bird away ;)

    What I personally find unfun in many games of today is the shopping. I friggin hate shopping in real life, why the heck would I want to do it in a game.

    I'm looking at you, cash shops. 


    UngoodAlBQuirky

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • UngoodUngood Member EpicPosts: 2,758
    Gorwe said:
    Ungood said:
    Gorwe said:
    It matters a great deal. I'm just not that focused on emotional experiences: they come, they go and I am unsure of just what I'm feeling. Let's just focus on good emotions, yeah?

    Because if it's not properly defined, everything can be anything. And that can be confusing. No reason for that.
    If you not sure of your own feelings... the Definition of Fun:


    : what provides amusement or enjoyment

    I don't think is going to help you.
    Just because it helps(or does not) myself, does not in any way imply whether it can(or can not) help others. I just enjoy greatly finding out what's what. And I fully believe this can help more introspective people.
    .. "Fun" is one of those terms we define at very young ages, when we first discover what we do and do not find fun. If after surviving however long you have in life, you are still unable to figure out if you are having fun or not... honestly.. I feel bad for you.
  • UngoodUngood Member EpicPosts: 2,758
    laserit said:
    Well... It was fun until her daddy took the T-Bird away ;)

    What I personally find unfun in many games of today is the shopping. I friggin hate shopping in real life, why the heck would I want to do it in a game.

    I'm looking at you, cash shops. 


    Does this also apply to NPC vendors and Auction Houses?
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 33,254
    Ungood said:
    Kyleran said:
    Ungood said:
    I would like to interject something.

    Yes, Fun is a subjective term. With that said, this was a matter of what individuals find "Not Fun" and I want to be clear, there is no right or wrong answer to this question.

    No one has the right to tell anyone what they should or should not enjoy.

    So bogging this thread down with semantics, is a complete waste of time, but I am sure that the people have opted to take that direction have found it fun.


    I didn't mean to bog things down, I really wasn't sure what you wanted from the OP, it was in a later post where you clarified the context I was able to better reply. 

    Semantics actually can be very important, especially if the "meaning" of words is not agreed upon.

    Try asking a question like this for some real hilarity.

    "What sandbox MMO is the best or most fun?'

    My guess is we'll need to come to an agreement on about 4 or 5 words to get a consistent response, if it would really even be possible. 

    ;)


    I agree with you here, but a lot of that rests on "Best" aspect of that, which than turns this into some kind of e-peen waving absolute, as opposed to saying "What Sandbox MMO did you have the most fun in"

    In that case, different people will have different flavors, and as opposed to an arbitrary "best" where the largest stumbling block happens, it's more a "What did you enjoy"

    I am sure I could have made a much more Hot Button topic, if I had asked "What game sucks the most" and would not even need to define "Sucks" vs "Blows" to have a SHTF discussion, as I have put an absolute into the intention of the topic.

    Which was not my goal here, I simply wanted to see what some other players do not enjoy in game, what makes a game "Not Fun" to you.. I wager, in my own negligence in that regard, I should have affixed the "To you" but I took the gamble that it was implied.

    The example by @Ganksinatra hit home with me, as I also like Arena Battle games, and when it feels like people on the other team are cheating, it just totally ruins the match and kills all the fun from the fight. It just gives me the vibe that If I wanted to fight a Bot, I'd play a PvE game, ya know?

    Well in my original example I think not only would posters haggle over the term best,  you would see it careen wildly off topic quite quickly.

    People would share their favorite and the battles would ensue, with players saying "game x" is not a sandbox for "reasons."

    Others would point out "game x" isn't a true MMO while others would point out it might be the most popular, or largest seller but those aren't any indicator of quality, challenge, or whatever so it can't be the best.

    Then of course, there is the word "fun" and you get people like me challenging the entire concept, as I view that word as something children do on playgrounds,  but is nothing at all why I play games. 

    Oh yeah, then some will chime in "game x" is the best especially when played with friends......yeah, like why would anyone do something so silly,  unless of course ones friends all love playing the exact same game you want to. 

    All in a forum warrior's days work.

    ;)


    UngoodAlBQuirky

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 6,118
    Ungood said:
    laserit said:
    Well... It was fun until her daddy took the T-Bird away ;)

    What I personally find unfun in many games of today is the shopping. I friggin hate shopping in real life, why the heck would I want to do it in a game.

    I'm looking at you, cash shops. 


    Does this also apply to NPC vendors and Auction Houses?
    Pretty much, All I do at NPC vendors is sell stuff and buy ammo if need be. I only go to an Auction house only if I need something. I don't browse, my search is very targeted and I don't care about playing the market in my gaming.

    I like to be immersed, I like NPC vendors that make a village or a town seem more realistic and lifelike.
    UngoodAlBQuirky

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • WargfootWargfoot Member UncommonPosts: 241
    This is a hard question to answer.

    For example, mirrored classes is a game killer for RvR (1) but I'd want that in Battlefield style game.  The less options I have in character development the more I want mirrored classes, I think.

    So fun is very contextual - a feature can be awesome in one game but annoying in another game.


    NOTES
    1: This really repels me from RvR titles.  It is okay that people like it; I do not like it.
    UngoodAlBQuirky
  • ShaighShaigh Member RarePosts: 1,986
    edited February 11
    Why do I fail to feel engaged with shooters like destiny and division while enjoying shooters like doom/wolfenstein, its simply that doom/wolfenstein had something that I felt like destiny and division were missing.

    Why did I like dragon age origins while not getting captivated by dragon age inquisitions, it was all because of gameplay being more fun in dao.

    Why do I hate manchester united so much while being a liverpool supporter even though I never been in england, I don't know anyone in those areas but i chose to support one of those teams wearing red.

    I know that it triggers me but I can't really say why it triggers me.
    Ungood
    The cynic knows the price of everything and the value of nothing.
  • UngoodUngood Member EpicPosts: 2,758
    Shaigh said:
    Why do I fail to feel engaged with shooters like destiny and division while enjoying shooters like doom/wolfenstein, its simply that doom/wolfenstein had something that I felt like destiny and division were missing.

    Why did I like dragon age origins while not getting captivated by dragon age inquisitions, it was all because of gameplay being more fun in dao.

    Why do I hate manchester united so much while being a liverpool supporter even though I never been in england, I don't know anyone in those areas but i chose to support one of those teams wearing red.

    I know that it triggers me but I can't really say why it triggers me.
    Well you are in luck.. as I am not asking anyone to be objective.. this is a purely subjective discussion.. all about your likes and.. dislikes as the case may be.
  • UngoodUngood Member EpicPosts: 2,758
    Kyleran said:
    Ungood said:
    Kyleran said:
    Ungood said:
    I would like to interject something.

    Yes, Fun is a subjective term. With that said, this was a matter of what individuals find "Not Fun" and I want to be clear, there is no right or wrong answer to this question.

    No one has the right to tell anyone what they should or should not enjoy.

    So bogging this thread down with semantics, is a complete waste of time, but I am sure that the people have opted to take that direction have found it fun.


    I didn't mean to bog things down, I really wasn't sure what you wanted from the OP, it was in a later post where you clarified the context I was able to better reply. 

    Semantics actually can be very important, especially if the "meaning" of words is not agreed upon.

    Try asking a question like this for some real hilarity.

    "What sandbox MMO is the best or most fun?'

    My guess is we'll need to come to an agreement on about 4 or 5 words to get a consistent response, if it would really even be possible. 

    ;)


    I agree with you here, but a lot of that rests on "Best" aspect of that, which than turns this into some kind of e-peen waving absolute, as opposed to saying "What Sandbox MMO did you have the most fun in"

    In that case, different people will have different flavors, and as opposed to an arbitrary "best" where the largest stumbling block happens, it's more a "What did you enjoy"

    I am sure I could have made a much more Hot Button topic, if I had asked "What game sucks the most" and would not even need to define "Sucks" vs "Blows" to have a SHTF discussion, as I have put an absolute into the intention of the topic.

    Which was not my goal here, I simply wanted to see what some other players do not enjoy in game, what makes a game "Not Fun" to you.. I wager, in my own negligence in that regard, I should have affixed the "To you" but I took the gamble that it was implied.

    The example by @Ganksinatra hit home with me, as I also like Arena Battle games, and when it feels like people on the other team are cheating, it just totally ruins the match and kills all the fun from the fight. It just gives me the vibe that If I wanted to fight a Bot, I'd play a PvE game, ya know?

    Well in my original example I think not only would posters haggle over the term best,  you would see it careen wildly off topic quite quickly.

    People would share their favorite and the battles would ensue, with players saying "game x" is not a sandbox for "reasons."

    Others would point out "game x" isn't a true MMO while others would point out it might be the most popular, or largest seller but those aren't any indicator of quality, challenge, or whatever so it can't be the best.

    Then of course, there is the word "fun" and you get people like me challenging the entire concept, as I view that word as something children do on playgrounds,  but is nothing at all why I play games. 

    Oh yeah, then some will chime in "game x" is the best especially when played with friends......yeah, like why would anyone do something so silly,  unless of course ones friends all love playing the exact same game you want to. 

    All in a forum warrior's days work.

    ;)


    You have not challenged  fun really, you have simply made it clear that you find some aspects of your work to be fun, so you find doing that same kind of thing in games also fun.. in fact I kinda envy you that what you do for a job is so much fun to you that you would seek it out even in your hobbies. Now we could disagree on what we find fun, in your example of a playground, some kids hate playgrounds, they despise them, and would rather go swimming or draw on the sidewalk with chalk, in the sense, there is no "This is Fun" there is only "This is what I fund fun" , in another example, some people might think it's great fun to have their balls whipped by a woman wearing a leather mask and I think anything hitting my balls at all sounds like a crap ton of "Not Fun", while we may disagree on what we find fun, it does not change what Fun is, and that we are both having.. what we consider fun.

    Just saying.
  • LokeroLokero Member RarePosts: 1,447
    It's mostly been covered already, but:

    • Overly repetitive gameplay (daily quests and the like are included in this section)
    • Enemies/Games that cheat.  Losing in fairness doesn't bother me, but I hate being cheated
    • Really, really, really hate QTEs -- worst game mechanic.

    I love strategy type games, but once you have unlocked all the tech/buildings, they often start to feel really repetitive.  I wish developers would find a solution to the "late game" problem.
    UngoodAlBQuirky
  • aummoidaummoid Member UncommonPosts: 80
    Kyleran said:

    Then of course, there is the word "fun" and you get people like me challenging the entire concept, as I view that word as something children do on playgrounds,  but is nothing at all why I play games. 

    Feel free to game for whatever unfun reasons you choose, but my reasons for playing games overlap very well with the reasons why kids run around playgrounds.

    So your challenge to the entire concept is a pretty remarkable bit of overreach.
    UngoodKyleranPalebane
  • UngoodUngood Member EpicPosts: 2,758
    Why does the above sound like a trap?
    KyleranAlBQuirkyWargfoot
  • Viper482Viper482 Member EpicPosts: 2,566
    I lean toward pvp in MMOs....unfun to me is so much crowd control that I cannot do anything with my toon before I die. 
    Ungood
    Make MMORPG's Great Again!
  • AlmostLancelotAlmostLancelot Member UncommonPosts: 135
    Viper482 said:
    I lean toward pvp in MMOs....unfun to me is so much crowd control that I cannot do anything with my toon before I die. 
    Sounds like someone is salty about dying to stunlocks, lol.
  • UngoodUngood Member EpicPosts: 2,758
    Viper482 said:
    I lean toward pvp in MMOs....unfun to me is so much crowd control that I cannot do anything with my toon before I die. 
    Sounds like someone is salty about dying to stunlocks, lol.
    Well if that is how you enjoy dying.. I am not going to judge.
  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Member EpicPosts: 5,238
    laserit said:
    Well... It was fun until her daddy took the T-Bird away ;)

    What I personally find unfun in many games of today is the shopping. I friggin hate shopping in real life, why the heck would I want to do it in a game.

    I'm looking at you, cash shops. 


    OMG! Beach Boys reference! (and why I "lol'd" your post).
    And she'll have fun, fun, fun 'til her daddy takes her T-Bird away!

    Otherwise, I have to totally agree with the shopping. I'm and out of stores as quickly as possible because it NOT fun. Having games herd me to their own stores is even worse, as these things I'll never use in real life.
    laseritKyleranUngood

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR

  • cheeseheadscheeseheads Member UncommonPosts: 73
    open world pvp makes a game not fun to me.  
    AlBQuirkyUngoodcraftseeker
  • TheDarkrayneTheDarkrayne Member EpicPosts: 4,979
    Daily/Weekly caps on progression are usually a deal breaker for me.

    As soon as I realised that, in Destiny, you can only earn a few powerful upgrades per week, I was pretty much done with it. (Basically, you can only increase your light level a few times per week once you are at the soft cap for anyone that hasn't played it).

    I'm not picking on Destiny, that's just one example and there's plenty more.

    Just let me play properly when I have the time, damn it.
    AlBQuirkyUngood
    I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
  • WargfootWargfoot Member UncommonPosts: 241
    I love games where I can buy a win using my credit card.

    I keep waiting for the game that will charge me $$$$$ so I can enter in a player name and press a button and that player character immediately dies and all his stuff is transferred directly to my bank box.  

    If that could be a mobile app so I can do it while sipping coffee at a Starbucks, that would be great.

    -----------------------------------------

    I really want a game where hyper-sexualized little anime girls run around flashing their underwear - or better yet, a game where impossibly endowed semi-nude porn stars take control of dragons or otherwise fight evil.  Where have all the games that show boobs, Boobs, BOOBS gone?

    And hey, let's not pick on the ladies - for the men let's have swords the size of surfboards or shoulder armor that makes the use of peripheral vision impossible - the combined weight of which, even if made of carbon fiber, would be over 500 lbs.

    -----------------------------------------

    I want a game where all the classes on each side are basically the same thing such that the only difference between the Necromancer's Hellfire spell and the Druid's Dragon's Breath spell and the Confessor's Cleansing Fire spell is the tool tip description.  Please don't bother to change the animation, it is confusing when developers do that.

    -----------------------------------------

    ^--- The only thing that would improve on a game that combined all of that would be if it was released about 2 years before it was playable where the only connection between the actual game world and the promotional videos was the name of the studio.

    KyleranAlBQuirkyTindale111
  • AmatheAmathe Member LegendaryPosts: 5,363
    Looking back over my departure from games I have played, the top five "no fun" issues are:

    5  Something better came along
    4  Real life intruded. No enough time to play.
    3  Progression opportunities dried up
    2  Nerfs 
    1  People I played with annoyed hell out of me (ding ding ding - we have a winner)
    UngoodAlBQuirkyKyleran

    EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests

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