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What makes a game "Not Fun"

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Comments

  • AlbatroesAlbatroes Member LegendaryPosts: 6,292
    grinding for something only for it to be obsolete a month or 2 after getting it and seeing 'new' or 'returning' people caught up to the same point as you after a week thanks to 'catch-up.'
    AlBQuirkyCaffynatedkjempffUngoodRobokappdeniter
  • lahnmirlahnmir Member EpicPosts: 2,674
    As my time got more and more precious through the years I atarted to really dislike the carrot-stick approach many games have, the moment to moment gameplay needs to be good. This has resulted in me playing less MMOs and more games like Nioh and MHW.

    I also HATE gear resets when a new expansion or patch hits, it feels like I have wasted my time. I can do it once or twice every five years or so but not more.

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir
    KyleranUngood
    'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'

    Kyleran on yours sincerely 


    But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.

    Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 11,498
    Scot said:
    The word "fun" and gaming is now so overused. It has made the raison d'etre of all gaming as "what I immediately like" and nothing else. Do you only get fun out of playing a team sport or chess? Can gaming not have a sense of achievement, camaraderie of the team, worthwhile social activity in a guild, can players not roleplay?  There is much more to gaming than the "fun" you see so overhyped in the first ten minutes of play, but you need to be in game for a while to see that and a 20 minute review by a casual won't show you a jot of it.
    Those are all add ons. The primary purpose is entertainment. If it is not fulfilling that primary purpose most people will do something else. Those add ons can be found with any number of activities.

    Just like a car. The primary purpose is to move you. It also plays music. But if it stops moving you most people will get rid of it or fix it. If it stops playing music but still drives they may or may not get rid of it.
    But what is entertainment? Managing to control a realm, or doing the liaising between guilds to get a multi-guild group to complete a raid is not necessarily "fun" but the whole result is entertaining. By describing games only in terms of "fun" we belittle them and take away the respect that is given to sports, or more intellectual games like chess. Gaming is being infantilised by the idea it must always be fun, that's why I speak against such an idea.
    kjempff

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  • VengeSunsoarVengeSunsoar Member RarePosts: 6,540
    edited February 10
    I didn't say fun I said entertainment. People are entertained by different things depending on the mood. Fun can be entertaining, conflict can be entertaining, a mystery can be entertaining, just relaxing can be entertaining. 

    As long as you are entertained the game meets its purpose.
    KylerankjempffUngood
    Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
  • GorweGorwe Member EpicPosts: 6,003
    Scot said:
    Scot said:
    The word "fun" and gaming is now so overused. It has made the raison d'etre of all gaming as "what I immediately like" and nothing else. Do you only get fun out of playing a team sport or chess? Can gaming not have a sense of achievement, camaraderie of the team, worthwhile social activity in a guild, can players not roleplay?  There is much more to gaming than the "fun" you see so overhyped in the first ten minutes of play, but you need to be in game for a while to see that and a 20 minute review by a casual won't show you a jot of it.
    Those are all add ons. The primary purpose is entertainment. If it is not fulfilling that primary purpose most people will do something else. Those add ons can be found with any number of activities.

    Just like a car. The primary purpose is to move you. It also plays music. But if it stops moving you most people will get rid of it or fix it. If it stops playing music but still drives they may or may not get rid of it.
    But what is entertainment? Managing to control a realm, or doing the liaising between guilds to get a multi-guild group to complete a raid is not necessarily "fun" but the whole result is entertaining. By describing games only in terms of "fun" we belittle them and take away the respect that is given to sports, or more intellectual games like chess. Gaming is being infantilised by the idea it must always be fun, that's why I speak against such an idea.
    How about we try to define "fun" first so we're not talking about different things under one umbrella term.
    KyleranUngood
  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 16,204
    Seeing that a very high majority just follow the current trend/hype,i doubt many at all understand the word FUN.
    So i will try and describe it best i can because i play for FUN AND for no other reason.Fun is when i enjoy what i am doing,i do not ever need superficial reasons to warrant my enjoyment.Examples are ideals like LOOT and it's current benefactor"Division 2",i do not need RANKINGS "see BR's",i do not need MONEY "see streamers",i do not need to be SPONSORED,i do not need to do it as a JOB to get paid "see all gaming businesses",i do it because i simply enjoy myself when i am playing.

    The whole idea of gaming and FUN,came about BEFORE the internet.I like many others THOUGHT that the internet could make it even greater,enjoy gaming with others from all over the world.As soon as the internet hit gaming it began destroying it,scummy people began finding ways to take a fun enjoyable hobby and turn it into making money,turning it into a job, a business.

    There is VERY little passion anymore,nothing from the developers side and nothing from the gamer's side.Watching how easy it appears to be for businesses to exploit people reminds me of a sci-fi movie,humans have lost the ability to think,they simply follow like puppets.YES SIR..OK SIR...he said she said,go get this game NOW,don't even think about it,just buy it,look millions of others are doing,so you should to,well what are you waiting for?
    Ungood

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • DibdabsDibdabs Member RarePosts: 2,828
    Grind.  That includes Dailies, which are lazy ways to give the impression the game has more content that it actually has.

    Storylines on rails.  Where the game tells people they can be who they want and that you can forge your own path... but it's the same story and path for every player in the game no matter what you do.
    Ungood
  • kitaradkitarad Member EpicPosts: 5,067
    When my friends leave the game.
    iixviiiixUngood

  • UngoodUngood Member EpicPosts: 2,758
    I would like to interject something.

    Yes, Fun is a subjective term. With that said, this was a matter of what individuals find "Not Fun" and I want to be clear, there is no right or wrong answer to this question.

    No one has the right to tell anyone what they should or should not enjoy.

    So bogging this thread down with semantics, is a complete waste of time, but I am sure that the people have opted to take that direction have found it fun.


    Kyleran
  • GanksinatraGanksinatra Member UncommonPosts: 451
    Lately, it's been lopsided mechanics that make things "not fun" for me. My son loves Black Ops 4. I love playing with him, but absolutely hate the game. Because of the 20 or so guns, 3 reign over them all. Of the 10 or so operators, 3 rule over all. It's dumb. The rest of the choices are merely the illusion of choice, or you just suck at the game. I can reliably guess that I will be killed by a fast firing SMG, often as if it were a sniper rifle from across the map, by Prophet (the operator) at least 3 times a game. Oh, and he will do so while jumping around and 180ing around after I have shot him in the back a dozen times.

    I guess this is kind of what made me go away from WoW....I mean besides the really bad expansion. So often, I would suffer in silence with my favorite class near the bottom of the charts, then suddenly you are buffed, but to the point where everyone else suddenly rolls your class because you are WAY imba at that point. I just got tired of the nerf/buff merry go round. That and the working for gear for 3 months, then having it rendered obsolete the next day.

    I get balance is a difficult issue with gaming, but especially in the Black Ops 4 example, they just don't seem to even be trying. Hell, they have buffed sniper rifles, who are almost all one shot as it is, every single patch so far. How does a .50cal sniper rifle (Paladin) one shot people, but the .50cal machine gun (Titan) doesn't? There is no rhyme or reason.
    Ungood
  • ET3DET3D Member UncommonPosts: 297
    Ungood said:
    What makes a game "Not Fun" and Why.
    A game is not fun when it lacks fun. :)

    Or, to put it another way, I feel that the important part is finding what you like, not what you dislike. Defining what you dislike will not lead you to something good, it's not something that can be built upon. Because people have different tastes, a game whose focus isn't narrow enough to fit your particular taste will likely have things you dislike. If players focus on those, instead of on what they do like, I feel that it's their loss.

    Personally I'm looking for a bit of a story and simple mechanics. I do appreciate variety, i.e., being able to craft, house, etc., but also appreciate being able to ignore it. I like being able to play solo but having opportunities to help others.
  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Member EpicPosts: 5,238
    ET3D said:
    Ungood said:
    What makes a game "Not Fun" and Why.
    A game is not fun when it lacks fun. :)

    Or, to put it another way, I feel that the important part is finding what you like, not what you dislike. Defining what you dislike will not lead you to something good, it's not something that can be built upon. Because people have different tastes, a game whose focus isn't narrow enough to fit your particular taste will likely have things you dislike. If players focus on those, instead of on what they do like, I feel that it's their loss.

    Personally I'm looking for a bit of a story and simple mechanics. I do appreciate variety, i.e., being able to craft, house, etc., but also appreciate being able to ignore it. I like being able to play solo but having opportunities to help others.
    For me, it's a measure and degree of both. No game is perfect, so there will be "un-fun" parts as well as "fun" parts. It's when this "balance" stays too long in the "un-fun" area, or the "fun" parts aren't close enough to the top of my fun list that usually has me logging off :)

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR

  • negan16negan16 Member CommonPosts: 11
    Bugs and crashes 
    No multiplayer function
    No cross play 
    Ungood
  • Gobstopper3DGobstopper3D Member RarePosts: 839
    Grinding for any reason which is why I have pretty much moved on from MMO's and artificial difficulty introduced by just adding larger swarms or increased health (looking at you Bioware and Bethesda).
    UngoodPalebane

    I'm not an IT Specialist, Game Developer, or Clairvoyant in real life, but like others on here, I play one on the internet.

  • skadadskadad Member UncommonPosts: 372
    dailies
    Ungood
  • moguy1moguy1 Member UncommonPosts: 118
    For me it is if there isn't multiplayer options then I am out. I just cant get into playing a game without the chance of social interaction.
    Ungood
  • WarWitchWarWitch Member UncommonPosts: 251
    One shot gear score no skill pvp.  Like Black desert online, or destiny 2. Fights dont last long enough to be fun or allow players a chance with that cash shop gear and enchancing.

    heavy Pay to win games like black desert online etc.

    Ungood
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 33,254
    edited February 11
    Ungood said:
    Let me give you another example of a game that died on me. I was playing GWII, and someone posted a video of a hack program, what it could do, and how easy it was to cheat in the game.

    That killed almost all my interest in the WvW aspect of the game overnight.

    Yes, I know, people cheat in all games, but, that is a huge turn off for me, to even deal with that. It kills any investment I might put into the game.
    Definitely games reported to be (or especially if I personally observe) rife with hacking and cheating are a total turnoff which means I'll quickly leave or never start playing.

    I really enjoyed the ArchAge alpha/beta's but once the game "launched" in NA reports came in of players rampantly cheating, the worst being a bot which would outbid everyone to suck up every available parcel of land which came up for sale.

    As this would directly impact my personal gameplay to this day I've never logged into the live version.

    Also did not help Trion started the timer on my included 90 day patron status the day the game launched.

    I had incorrectly assumed it would not start until the first time I tried to login in post launch.....

    I was mistaken, they even disqualified me from receiving my alpha backer rewards saying too much time had passed (6 mo) to claim them.

    (The edit button is back, "fun" has returned to the forums)

    ;)



    Ungood

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • LithuanianLithuanian Member UncommonPosts: 389
    When there is no meaningfull activity.
    Examples of fun:
    Istaria - go chop Yew, make some boards, store lots of them, then craft keystones, store lots of them, add to some player's structure. After lots running- hurray, some building appears! Standing in New Trismus, asking newbies if anyone need help. Just running with Guild to one beautifull frozen lake.

    Lotro - for me it was Hytbold (after all, it is *me* that rebuilds entire town!) and Mordor dailies. Two days of dailies --> 1 black key and some deeds advanced. Helping newbie players. Bartering new end-game currency for new equipment.
    After N.Mirkwood: absolutely nothing to do. Almost nobody needs help. Hytbold done, Mordor dailies lost their meaning. Grinding for new end-game currency is nonsense, since it is heavily limited (10 instance runs of hardest difficulty to get 1 essence...and you need >10 essences) + new update would surely introduce new essences. Result: all my main toon parked.
    KyleranUngood
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 33,254
    Ungood said:
    I would like to interject something.

    Yes, Fun is a subjective term. With that said, this was a matter of what individuals find "Not Fun" and I want to be clear, there is no right or wrong answer to this question.

    No one has the right to tell anyone what they should or should not enjoy.

    So bogging this thread down with semantics, is a complete waste of time, but I am sure that the people have opted to take that direction have found it fun.


    I didn't mean to bog things down, I really wasn't sure what you wanted from the OP, it was in a later post where you clarified the context I was able to better reply. 

    Semantics actually can be very important, especially if the "meaning" of words is not agreed upon.

    Try asking a question like this for some real hilarity.

    "What sandbox MMO is the best or most fun?'

    My guess is we'll need to come to an agreement on about 4 or 5 words to get a consistent response, if it would really even be possible. 

    ;)


    UngoodGorwe

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • UngoodUngood Member EpicPosts: 2,758
    Kyleran said:
    Ungood said:
    I would like to interject something.

    Yes, Fun is a subjective term. With that said, this was a matter of what individuals find "Not Fun" and I want to be clear, there is no right or wrong answer to this question.

    No one has the right to tell anyone what they should or should not enjoy.

    So bogging this thread down with semantics, is a complete waste of time, but I am sure that the people have opted to take that direction have found it fun.


    I didn't mean to bog things down, I really wasn't sure what you wanted from the OP, it was in a later post where you clarified the context I was able to better reply. 

    Semantics actually can be very important, especially if the "meaning" of words is not agreed upon.

    Try asking a question like this for some real hilarity.

    "What sandbox MMO is the best or most fun?'

    My guess is we'll need to come to an agreement on about 4 or 5 words to get a consistent response, if it would really even be possible. 

    ;)


    I agree with you here, but a lot of that rests on "Best" aspect of that, which than turns this into some kind of e-peen waving absolute, as opposed to saying "What Sandbox MMO did you have the most fun in"

    In that case, different people will have different flavors, and as opposed to an arbitrary "best" where the largest stumbling block happens, it's more a "What did you enjoy"

    I am sure I could have made a much more Hot Button topic, if I had asked "What game sucks the most" and would not even need to define "Sucks" vs "Blows" to have a SHTF discussion, as I have put an absolute into the intention of the topic.

    Which was not my goal here, I simply wanted to see what some other players do not enjoy in game, what makes a game "Not Fun" to you.. I wager, in my own negligence in that regard, I should have affixed the "To you" but I took the gamble that it was implied.

    The example by @Ganksinatra hit home with me, as I also like Arena Battle games, and when it feels like people on the other team are cheating, it just totally ruins the match and kills all the fun from the fight. It just gives me the vibe that If I wanted to fight a Bot, I'd play a PvE game, ya know?

    Kyleran
  • GorweGorwe Member EpicPosts: 6,003
    edited February 11
    Ungood said:
    Kyleran said:
    Ungood said:
    I would like to interject something.

    Yes, Fun is a subjective term. With that said, this was a matter of what individuals find "Not Fun" and I want to be clear, there is no right or wrong answer to this question.

    No one has the right to tell anyone what they should or should not enjoy.

    So bogging this thread down with semantics, is a complete waste of time, but I am sure that the people have opted to take that direction have found it fun.


    I didn't mean to bog things down, I really wasn't sure what you wanted from the OP, it was in a later post where you clarified the context I was able to better reply. 

    Semantics actually can be very important, especially if the "meaning" of words is not agreed upon.

    Try asking a question like this for some real hilarity.

    "What sandbox MMO is the best or most fun?'

    My guess is we'll need to come to an agreement on about 4 or 5 words to get a consistent response, if it would really even be possible. 

    ;)


    I agree with you here, but a lot of that rests on "Best" aspect of that, which than turns this into some kind of e-peen waving absolute, as opposed to saying "What Sandbox MMO did you have the most fun in"

    In that case, different people will have different flavors, and as opposed to an arbitrary "best" where the largest stumbling block happens, it's more a "What did you enjoy"

    I am sure I could have made a much more Hot Button topic, if I had asked "What game sucks the most" and would not even need to define "Sucks" vs "Blows" to have a SHTF discussion, as I have put an absolute into the intention of the topic.

    Which was not my goal here, I simply wanted to see what some other players do not enjoy in game, what makes a game "Not Fun" to you.. I wager, in my own negligence in that regard, I should have affixed the "To you" but I took the gamble that it was implied.

    The example by @Ganksinatra hit home with me, as I also like Arena Battle games, and when it feels like people on the other team are cheating, it just totally ruins the match and kills all the fun from the fight. It just gives me the vibe that If I wanted to fight a Bot, I'd play a PvE game, ya know?

    Apparently, fun is defined as, basically: Fun = f(pleasure). Therefore, it's very subjective. That also explains why it is rather easy to define and unify the meaning of "unfun / not fun". Because not many people enjoying grinding or being milked or heavy focus on difficulty or competition. Not many people like to being told what to do as well. Because in all those cases your basic pleasure principle gets overwritten. Also, an activity can be pleasurable, without being actually fun.

    ...in short, it's all very personal, but the words need to be defined, otherwise we're all yapping about...whatever.
    Kyleran
  • UngoodUngood Member EpicPosts: 2,758
    Gorwe said:
    Ungood said:
    Kyleran said:
    Ungood said:
    I would like to interject something.

    Yes, Fun is a subjective term. With that said, this was a matter of what individuals find "Not Fun" and I want to be clear, there is no right or wrong answer to this question.

    No one has the right to tell anyone what they should or should not enjoy.

    So bogging this thread down with semantics, is a complete waste of time, but I am sure that the people have opted to take that direction have found it fun.


    I didn't mean to bog things down, I really wasn't sure what you wanted from the OP, it was in a later post where you clarified the context I was able to better reply. 

    Semantics actually can be very important, especially if the "meaning" of words is not agreed upon.

    Try asking a question like this for some real hilarity.

    "What sandbox MMO is the best or most fun?'

    My guess is we'll need to come to an agreement on about 4 or 5 words to get a consistent response, if it would really even be possible. 

    ;)


    I agree with you here, but a lot of that rests on "Best" aspect of that, which than turns this into some kind of e-peen waving absolute, as opposed to saying "What Sandbox MMO did you have the most fun in"

    In that case, different people will have different flavors, and as opposed to an arbitrary "best" where the largest stumbling block happens, it's more a "What did you enjoy"

    I am sure I could have made a much more Hot Button topic, if I had asked "What game sucks the most" and would not even need to define "Sucks" vs "Blows" to have a SHTF discussion, as I have put an absolute into the intention of the topic.

    Which was not my goal here, I simply wanted to see what some other players do not enjoy in game, what makes a game "Not Fun" to you.. I wager, in my own negligence in that regard, I should have affixed the "To you" but I took the gamble that it was implied.

    The example by @Ganksinatra hit home with me, as I also like Arena Battle games, and when it feels like people on the other team are cheating, it just totally ruins the match and kills all the fun from the fight. It just gives me the vibe that If I wanted to fight a Bot, I'd play a PvE game, ya know?

    Apparently, fun is defined as, basically: Fun = f(pleasure). Therefore, it's very subjective. That also explains why it is rather easy to define and unify the meaning of "unfun / not fun". Because not many people enjoying grinding or being milked or heavy focus on difficulty or competition. Not many people like to being told what to do as well. Because in all those cases your basic pleasure principle gets overwritten. Also, an activity can be pleasurable, without being actually fun.

    ...in short, it's all very personal, but the words need to be defined, otherwise we're all yapping about...whatever.
    Did you have fun writing that?
  • HashbrickHashbrick Member RarePosts: 1,785
    Repetition kills the fun.  Repetition that constantly wastes your time kills it faster.
    Ungood
    I'm a simple man spoiled from MMOs of the old age.  Looking for a home but deserted.  My heart and time is not worthy for the MMOs of the new age.
  • GorweGorwe Member EpicPosts: 6,003
    Ungood said:
    Gorwe said:
    Ungood said:
    Kyleran said:
    Ungood said:
    I would like to interject something.

    Yes, Fun is a subjective term. With that said, this was a matter of what individuals find "Not Fun" and I want to be clear, there is no right or wrong answer to this question.

    No one has the right to tell anyone what they should or should not enjoy.

    So bogging this thread down with semantics, is a complete waste of time, but I am sure that the people have opted to take that direction have found it fun.


    I didn't mean to bog things down, I really wasn't sure what you wanted from the OP, it was in a later post where you clarified the context I was able to better reply. 

    Semantics actually can be very important, especially if the "meaning" of words is not agreed upon.

    Try asking a question like this for some real hilarity.

    "What sandbox MMO is the best or most fun?'

    My guess is we'll need to come to an agreement on about 4 or 5 words to get a consistent response, if it would really even be possible. 

    ;)


    I agree with you here, but a lot of that rests on "Best" aspect of that, which than turns this into some kind of e-peen waving absolute, as opposed to saying "What Sandbox MMO did you have the most fun in"

    In that case, different people will have different flavors, and as opposed to an arbitrary "best" where the largest stumbling block happens, it's more a "What did you enjoy"

    I am sure I could have made a much more Hot Button topic, if I had asked "What game sucks the most" and would not even need to define "Sucks" vs "Blows" to have a SHTF discussion, as I have put an absolute into the intention of the topic.

    Which was not my goal here, I simply wanted to see what some other players do not enjoy in game, what makes a game "Not Fun" to you.. I wager, in my own negligence in that regard, I should have affixed the "To you" but I took the gamble that it was implied.

    The example by @Ganksinatra hit home with me, as I also like Arena Battle games, and when it feels like people on the other team are cheating, it just totally ruins the match and kills all the fun from the fight. It just gives me the vibe that If I wanted to fight a Bot, I'd play a PvE game, ya know?

    Apparently, fun is defined as, basically: Fun = f(pleasure). Therefore, it's very subjective. That also explains why it is rather easy to define and unify the meaning of "unfun / not fun". Because not many people enjoying grinding or being milked or heavy focus on difficulty or competition. Not many people like to being told what to do as well. Because in all those cases your basic pleasure principle gets overwritten. Also, an activity can be pleasurable, without being actually fun.

    ...in short, it's all very personal, but the words need to be defined, otherwise we're all yapping about...whatever.
    Did you have fun writing that?
    Well, it was pleasurable researching that, not necessarily fun, due to some other properties of fun. Writing isn't often pleasurable(I'm rather clumsy ; or that's how I see myself anyhow), but it needs to be stated. I'd rather speak, than write, but whatever can be done?
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