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What makes a game "Not Fun"

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Comments

  • PalebanePalebane Tucson, AZMember UncommonPosts: 3,370
    One thing that always immediately turns me off in a game, is being told what (not) to do. Tutorials are good and all, but when I play a game I like, I like to play with that game; do unconventional things, test limits, etc. If I can't do that in a game, it gets boring pretty fast usually.
    Ungood

    Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.

  • foppoteefoppotee Member UncommonPosts: 50
    A personal lack of progression.  I'm sure it is a difficult balance for a game creator making it too steep could cause a player to concede in playing or lose interest but also not too easy as well whereas all the created content gets consumed too quickly.

    Grinding isn't progression & exposes a lack of innovation.  I'm not stating to rid the grinding altogether but when it is doing circles for the sake of content filler that plummets my interest in that game.

    Bottom line is a game is exactly that a game & just like when we were children we played games for fun & maybe we learned a little in the process.  It is entertainment & that can be conveyed in a multitude of methods like story lines, interactive combat, engaging with fellow players, or just coasting along enjoying the game's atmosphere.

    Nowadays, too many games think that having "gambling" mechanics is a fun part of gaming.  It isn't.  That's gambling & sooner or later regulations will catch-up & end these unregulated, unaccountable, nontransparent casinos with a staged mini-game as a front.
    UngoodVermillion_Raventhal
  • UngoodUngood Member EpicPosts: 2,101
    Scot said:
    The word "fun" and gaming is now so overused. It has made the raison d'etre of all gaming as "what I immediately like" and nothing else. Do you only get fun out of playing a team sport or chess? Can gaming not have a sense of achievement, camaraderie of the team, worthwhile social activity in a guild, can players not roleplay?  There is much more to gaming than the "fun" you see so overhyped in the first ten minutes of play, but you need to be in game for a while to see that and a 20 minute review by a casual won't show you a jot of it.
    Well, I suppose once I get my edit button back, I could change it to say "What makes a game Not Fun to you" as I am sure we all have different tastes in what we like and what we don't like.

    There is no Truth, only the Illusions we wish to Cling to. Knowing this, why do we all cling to such shitty illusions?
    Currently Playing Eternal Crusade, because killing people with a Chainsword is more fun then a sniper rifle.
  • VengeSunsoarVengeSunsoar Member RarePosts: 6,490
    Scot said:
    The word "fun" and gaming is now so overused. It has made the raison d'etre of all gaming as "what I immediately like" and nothing else. Do you only get fun out of playing a team sport or chess? Can gaming not have a sense of achievement, camaraderie of the team, worthwhile social activity in a guild, can players not roleplay?  There is much more to gaming than the "fun" you see so overhyped in the first ten minutes of play, but you need to be in game for a while to see that and a 20 minute review by a casual won't show you a jot of it.
    Those are all add ons. The primary purpose is entertainment. If it is not fulfilling that primary purpose most people will do something else. Those add ons can be found with any number of activities.

    Just like a car. The primary purpose is to move you. It also plays music. But if it stops moving you most people will get rid of it or fix it. If it stops playing music but still drives they may or may not get rid of it.
    Ungood
    Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
  • GorweGorwe Ald'RuhnMember EpicPosts: 5,525
    Palebane said:
    One thing that always immediately turns me off in a game, is being told what (not) to do. Tutorials are good and all, but when I play a game I like, I like to play with that game; do unconventional things, test limits, etc. If I can't do that in a game, it gets boring pretty fast usually.
    I'm the opposite. Don't expect me to run around like a hyperactive headless chicken "pushing boundaries". I like very nice directed experiences. Unfortunately for me, with the advent of "open" world plague, this has suffered greatly.
    Ungood
  • sumdumguy1sumdumguy1 A galaxy far far awayMember UncommonPosts: 1,228
    For me the following things make a game not fun.

    1.  PVP without a choice
    2. Being ganked by higher levels in game without a choice
    3.  Bad story, unable to get immersed
    4. Problems/Bugs in game
    5.  Too much repetition in terms of multiple things looking and feeling the same
    6.  Poor combat and action
    UngoodAeolyn
  • Tindale111Tindale111 croydonMember UncommonPosts: 253
    mmos that let you get to max level inside a week ,wows Legion expansion when you get the fort it should be for all your characters of a high enough level .Aholes in chat but at least i can ignore them and the biggest gripe making games easier ie  adding mercenarys or removing cooldowns ,reducing mob difficulties leaving a general feeling of lack of achievment in a game .i wont harp on about EQ1 being a great game but i will say when i managed to do anything meaningful kill a certain boss etc i felt a great deal of satisfaction unlike most of todays games .
    Ungoodk61977AlBQuirky
  • KyleranKyleran Paradise City, FLMember LegendaryPosts: 31,784
    Galadourn said:
    Galadourn said:
    Having a very clear goal in a game is fun; if you embellish the journey to that goal with trivia that add flavor without distracting from the main objective, you make it even funner. See what Classic did: it's basically a "level up and get better gear" game, but so fun in the process...
    You know. I think this is my problem three days. I don't really have a goal in any of the games I play anymore. other than getting more powerful to get more powerful to get more powerful.hmmm
    what other type of goal could you have in a game except getting more powerful/ better (depending on the type of game)? it's only a game after all, not a reality simulator.
    There needs to be a purpose to acquiring more power,  which is why only games involving territory control really have any appeal to me.

    Otherwise it all seems rather pointless.


    UngoodVengeSunsoar

    "I should run a marathon backwards. So I could see what second place look like" Royce da 5'9"

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing FO76 ATM.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • MasoodVoonMasoodVoon Member UncommonPosts: 49
    Games are most fun when I am downloading them for the first time not knowing how disappointed I will be 2 weeks later.
    UngoodAlBQuirkyKyleran
  • aummoidaummoid Member UncommonPosts: 64
    Scot said:
    The word "fun" and gaming is now so overused.
    This is the single best sentence I have read all year.
    KyleranAlBQuirky
  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 20,209
    It's easy to make a game not fun.  For games to be not fun is the natural state of the universe.  The more interesting question is what makes a game fun.  That takes some real work to do.
    AlBQuirky
  • UngoodUngood Member EpicPosts: 2,101
    What prompted this question on my part, was I playing an MMO with some friends that dropped out rather quick, and I asked them why they did so. And they said, paraphrased, that while it was a well made game, and it was not so much that there was something directly wrong with it, but they they simply were not having fun playing it.

    And I know I have been in the same place more than once, where is was not a bad game, but I was simply not having fun.

    Which is what made me wonder, what makes a game "Not Fun"

    Hence this question.. and thank you all for the great replies so far.
    There is no Truth, only the Illusions we wish to Cling to. Knowing this, why do we all cling to such shitty illusions?
    Currently Playing Eternal Crusade, because killing people with a Chainsword is more fun then a sniper rifle.
  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 20,209
    Ungood said:
    What prompted this question on my part, was I playing an MMO with some friends that dropped out rather quick, and I asked them why they did so. And they said, paraphrased, that while it was a well made game, and it was not so much that there was something directly wrong with it, but they they simply were not having fun playing it.

    And I know I have been in the same place more than once, where is was not a bad game, but I was simply not having fun.

    Which is what made me wonder, what makes a game "Not Fun"

    Hence this question.. and thank you all for the great replies so far.
    There are at least two common reasons for that to happen.  One is that a game did very well what it set out to do.  In that sense, the game is good.  The problem is that I dislike what it set out to do.  If you give me the best first person shooter ever made, I won't like it because I don't like first person shooters.  I might concede that it's a very good game, but that doesn't mean that I'll want to play it.

    The other problem is similarities between games.  Suppose that game A is really good.  So you play it a lot.  Then eventually you get sick of it and quit.  So you go play game B instead.  Game B is very similar to game A.  It's also a very good game in its own right.  You might well love game B if you had never played game A.  But because it's so similar to something that you're already sick of, you're not far from being sick of game B, too.  That makes game B not fun.
    KyleranUngoodVengeSunsoarAlBQuirky
  • UngoodUngood Member EpicPosts: 2,101
    Quizzical said:
    Ungood said:
    What prompted this question on my part, was I playing an MMO with some friends that dropped out rather quick, and I asked them why they did so. And they said, paraphrased, that while it was a well made game, and it was not so much that there was something directly wrong with it, but they they simply were not having fun playing it.

    And I know I have been in the same place more than once, where is was not a bad game, but I was simply not having fun.

    Which is what made me wonder, what makes a game "Not Fun"

    Hence this question.. and thank you all for the great replies so far.
    There are at least two common reasons for that to happen.  One is that a game did very well what it set out to do.  In that sense, the game is good.  The problem is that I dislike what it set out to do.  If you give me the best first person shooter ever made, I won't like it because I don't like first person shooters.  I might concede that it's a very good game, but that doesn't mean that I'll want to play it.

    The other problem is similarities between games.  Suppose that game A is really good.  So you play it a lot.  Then eventually you get sick of it and quit.  So you go play game B instead.  Game B is very similar to game A.  It's also a very good game in its own right.  You might well love game B if you had never played game A.  But because it's so similar to something that you're already sick of, you're not far from being sick of game B, too.  That makes game B not fun.
    That sounds reasonable for games that we drop out of quickly.

    But also, sometimes games can start out fun, and then become Not Fun.

    So I would like to ask what makes a game "Not Fun" for you.. maybe share a personal story of how a game went from fun to not fun, or how you walked into a game, and while.. not a bad game, simply not a game you were having fun playing.


    There is no Truth, only the Illusions we wish to Cling to. Knowing this, why do we all cling to such shitty illusions?
    Currently Playing Eternal Crusade, because killing people with a Chainsword is more fun then a sniper rifle.
  • UngoodUngood Member EpicPosts: 2,101
    Quizzical said:
    It's easy to make a game not fun.  For games to be not fun is the natural state of the universe.  The more interesting question is what makes a game fun.  That takes some real work to do.
    I could have swore the whole point of a game was to have fun.. otherwise we would love work and hate games.... which does not sound right.. unless the paradox here that you wanted to play out was, Games are not Fun, Work is Not Fun, Nothing is Fun.. die unhappy and funless. ?
    There is no Truth, only the Illusions we wish to Cling to. Knowing this, why do we all cling to such shitty illusions?
    Currently Playing Eternal Crusade, because killing people with a Chainsword is more fun then a sniper rifle.
  • KyleranKyleran Paradise City, FLMember LegendaryPosts: 31,784
    Ungood said:
    Quizzical said:
    It's easy to make a game not fun.  For games to be not fun is the natural state of the universe.  The more interesting question is what makes a game fun.  That takes some real work to do.
    I could have swore the whole point of a game was to have fun.. otherwise we would love work and hate games.... which does not sound right.. unless the paradox here that you wanted to play out was, Games are not Fun, Work is Not Fun, Nothing is Fun.. die unhappy and funless. ?
    People often chide me for stating I don't play games "for fun."

    I actually enjoy games which are a lot like work, and have spent countless hours on activities which many would consider "not fun."

    I play for the satisfaction I receive setting personal goals and achieving them, which is also how I work as well, so not surprising. 
    CryomatrixUngoodAlBQuirky

    "I should run a marathon backwards. So I could see what second place look like" Royce da 5'9"

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing FO76 ATM.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • CryomatrixCryomatrix Cambridge, MAMember RarePosts: 2,173
    Kyleran said:
    Ungood said:
    Quizzical said:
    It's easy to make a game not fun.  For games to be not fun is the natural state of the universe.  The more interesting question is what makes a game fun.  That takes some real work to do.
    I could have swore the whole point of a game was to have fun.. otherwise we would love work and hate games.... which does not sound right.. unless the paradox here that you wanted to play out was, Games are not Fun, Work is Not Fun, Nothing is Fun.. die unhappy and funless. ?
    People often chide me for stating I don't play games "for fun."

    I actually enjoy games which are a lot like work, and have spent countless hours on activities which many would consider "not fun."

    I play for the satisfaction I receive setting personal goals and achieving them, which is also how I work as well, so not surprising. 
    Im similar to you bro. But a few shades less on the degree. 
    Ungood
  • KyleranKyleran Paradise City, FLMember LegendaryPosts: 31,784
    Quizzical said:
    Ungood said:
    What prompted this question on my part, was I playing an MMO with some friends that dropped out rather quick, and I asked them why they did so. And they said, paraphrased, that while it was a well made game, and it was not so much that there was something directly wrong with it, but they they simply were not having fun playing it.

    And I know I have been in the same place more than once, where is was not a bad game, but I was simply not having fun.

    Which is what made me wonder, what makes a game "Not Fun"

    Hence this question.. and thank you all for the great replies so far.
    There are at least two common reasons for that to happen.  One is that a game did very well what it set out to do.  In that sense, the game is good.  The problem is that I dislike what it set out to do.  If you give me the best first person shooter ever made, I won't like it because I don't like first person shooters.  I might concede that it's a very good game, but that doesn't mean that I'll want to play it.

    The other problem is similarities between games.  Suppose that game A is really good.  So you play it a lot.  Then eventually you get sick of it and quit.  So you go play game B instead.  Game B is very similar to game A.  It's also a very good game in its own right.  You might well love game B if you had never played game A.  But because it's so similar to something that you're already sick of, you're not far from being sick of game B, too.  That makes game B not fun.
    Similarities in games definitely makes me leave them, more and more quickly as I kept repeating the same game play again and again.

    First time I ran into this was LOTRO, I had just come off a couple of years of WOW and a short stint in Vanguard I think.

    I rolled two characters during the beta head start,  a Minstrel to group with my son, and a Dwarf tank of some sorts.

    I recall running down the road one day a month or so post launch to do some  faction grinding and it hit like a brick,  this game was just like WOW and equally pointless, so I immediately logged out and never went back.

    It was then I sought out EVE, which I left from time to time, but each new MMO I tried, Rift, SWTOR,  Aion, TERA,  SW, all just seemed like retreads of WOW so back to EVE I would go until the next "big thing" came out.


    UngoodAlBQuirky

    "I should run a marathon backwards. So I could see what second place look like" Royce da 5'9"

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing FO76 ATM.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • kjempffkjempff Member RarePosts: 1,568
    Fun is 100% subjective. What one person find fun someone else find boring. Could anyone disagree on this? Of course, this is the mmorpg forums, but whatever.

    For me, the best word to describe not fun is GAMEY, this applies to mmos only because of how and reasons that I play a mmo; for other genres gamey is fine because I don't need them to immerse me.
    k61977UngoodGorweAlBQuirky
  • k61977k61977 Pendleton, SCMember RarePosts: 1,101
    mmos that let you get to max level inside a week ,wows Legion expansion when you get the fort it should be for all your characters of a high enough level .Aholes in chat but at least i can ignore them and the biggest gripe making games easier ie  adding mercenarys or removing cooldowns ,reducing mob difficulties leaving a general feeling of lack of achievment in a game .i wont harp on about EQ1 being a great game but i will say when i managed to do anything meaningful kill a certain boss etc i felt a great deal of satisfaction unlike most of todays games .
    Your first few words are ones that I didn't even think about that I hate today.  I want a game where you have to play for months to get to max level.  Where you have to actually put in some time and effort.  I can remember when WoW first came out saving up that gold to buy the mount took forever an it totally changed the game when you finely got it.  It took me about 3 or 4 months to hit max level because I was running around exploring, I wasn't concerned about reaching the highest level either, unlike almost every game that is released today.  So that is a big one for me.  I love leveling, can't stand it when there isn't anything other than do but grind gear.
    UngoodTindale111AlBQuirkyKyleran
  • Octagon7711Octagon7711 Chicago, ILMember EpicPosts: 8,335
    For me, besides a lot of what was already said.  When work doesn't equal reward.  From taking a half hour to kill a boss that has the same drops as regular mobs or sometimes none (Devs say it's because the glory of victory should be enough), to having to micro-manage a class  by rotating multiple skills and combos that ends up doing the same amount of DPS another class does by repeatedly spamming three skills.  Plus the, every zone and special event has its own currency thing, yuck.
    Ungood

    "We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa      "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are."  SR Covey

  • KyleranKyleran Paradise City, FLMember LegendaryPosts: 31,784
    Ungood said:
    Quizzical said:
    Ungood said:
    What prompted this question on my part, was I playing an MMO with some friends that dropped out rather quick, and I asked them why they did so. And they said, paraphrased, that while it was a well made game, and it was not so much that there was something directly wrong with it, but they they simply were not having fun playing it.

    And I know I have been in the same place more than once, where is was not a bad game, but I was simply not having fun.

    Which is what made me wonder, what makes a game "Not Fun"

    Hence this question.. and thank you all for the great replies so far.
    There are at least two common reasons for that to happen.  One is that a game did very well what it set out to do.  In that sense, the game is good.  The problem is that I dislike what it set out to do.  If you give me the best first person shooter ever made, I won't like it because I don't like first person shooters.  I might concede that it's a very good game, but that doesn't mean that I'll want to play it.

    The other problem is similarities between games.  Suppose that game A is really good.  So you play it a lot.  Then eventually you get sick of it and quit.  So you go play game B instead.  Game B is very similar to game A.  It's also a very good game in its own right.  You might well love game B if you had never played game A.  But because it's so similar to something that you're already sick of, you're not far from being sick of game B, too.  That makes game B not fun.
    That sounds reasonable for games that we drop out of quickly.

    But also, sometimes games can start out fun, and then become Not Fun.

    So I would like to ask what makes a game "Not Fun" for you.. maybe share a personal story of how a game went from fun to not fun, or how you walked into a game, and while.. not a bad game, simply not a game you were having fun playing.


    So, I shared in the past why I loved DAOC and EVE, playing them more than all others and about the only MMORPGs I returned to again and again.

    Yet, to what you asked, my time in DAOC and EVE came to an end for the same reason,  changes in the gameplay designs which impacted my progression goals caused me to quit.

    In DAOC it was the Trials of Atlantis Expansion, it introduced raiding for the first time, a mechanic I had never experienced before, and I did not like it.

    One reason many played DAOC was to escape EQ1s raiding so truth is, most of us were not any good at it.

    The need to grind up some sort of legendary weapon, complete all of the raid content to gain invaluable (and over powered) in RVR, and I was on Mordred, the FFA PVP server where frequent interruption by other guilds really grew wearisome so I walked away after 3.5 yrs.

    I've gone back many times, but never to the live version, once to the classic servers they had, and several freeshards. 
    Ungood

    "I should run a marathon backwards. So I could see what second place look like" Royce da 5'9"

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing FO76 ATM.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • DMKanoDMKano Gamercentral, AKMember LegendaryPosts: 19,742
    For me - mindless questing.

    NPC1 and NPC2 are about 15 feet apart 

    NPC1 - *wall of text* take a loaf of bread to NPC2

    ...take it to him yourself you lazy sack of poop - he is right there...



    Or run for 20 minutes to so something that takes 15seconds.... and then have to run back for 20min to the damn NPC?

    Hell no.

    Questing has just deteriorated to absolute mindless shit after WoW popularized "quest grind" type of gameplay 
    UngoodGorweAlBQuirkydave6660
  • UngoodUngood Member EpicPosts: 2,101
    Let me give you another example of a game that died on me. I was playing GWII, and someone posted a video of a hack program, what it could do, and how easy it was to cheat in the game.

    That killed almost all my interest in the WvW aspect of the game overnight.

    Yes, I know, people cheat in all games, but, that is a huge turn off for me, to even deal with that. It kills any investment I might put into the game.
    PalebaneKyleran
    There is no Truth, only the Illusions we wish to Cling to. Knowing this, why do we all cling to such shitty illusions?
    Currently Playing Eternal Crusade, because killing people with a Chainsword is more fun then a sniper rifle.
  • KyleranKyleran Paradise City, FLMember LegendaryPosts: 31,784
    Ungood said:
    Quizzical said:
    Ungood said:
    What prompted this question on my part, was I playing an MMO with some friends that dropped out rather quick, and I asked them why they did so. And they said, paraphrased, that while it was a well made game, and it was not so much that there was something directly wrong with it, but they they simply were not having fun playing it.

    And I know I have been in the same place more than once, where is was not a bad game, but I was simply not having fun.

    Which is what made me wonder, what makes a game "Not Fun"

    Hence this question.. and thank you all for the great replies so far.
    There are at least two common reasons for that to happen.  One is that a game did very well what it set out to do.  In that sense, the game is good.  The problem is that I dislike what it set out to do.  If you give me the best first person shooter ever made, I won't like it because I don't like first person shooters.  I might concede that it's a very good game, but that doesn't mean that I'll want to play it.

    The other problem is similarities between games.  Suppose that game A is really good.  So you play it a lot.  Then eventually you get sick of it and quit.  So you go play game B instead.  Game B is very similar to game A.  It's also a very good game in its own right.  You might well love game B if you had never played game A.  But because it's so similar to something that you're already sick of, you're not far from being sick of game B, too.  That makes game B not fun.
    That sounds reasonable for games that we drop out of quickly.

    But also, sometimes games can start out fun, and then become Not Fun.

    So I would like to ask what makes a game "Not Fun" for you.. maybe share a personal story of how a game went from fun to not fun, or how you walked into a game, and while.. not a bad game, simply not a game you were having fun playing.


    So, it's hour number 6.5 of the wedding / reception that just will never freaking end, so here goes another story.

    I quit EVE two years ago over a fairly insignificant change, one with consequences CCP did anticipate, but botched in their solution to mitigate. (IMO)

    I was really enjoying making ISK as a miner, trained up 6 pilots to support, with quite a few months of skill points training into flying a specific class of Mining boosting ship. 

    I was perfectly content to pay CCP $15 a month just to put a character in this ship and park it in a POS, to do nothing else but provide mining boosts to my fleet and corpmates.

    CCP decided Rorqs should no longer sit protected in a POS and changed it so they no longer could.

    I did not care for their "compensations" and asked if they would please refund the skill points I had invested many months training up two accounts to fly a Rorq.

    They have declined twice, saying the "can't" which is total horseshit as they've refunded skill points several times during the games career, most notably when they eliminated the "education" mechanic but on other occasions when they eliminated a few other items. 

    So I'm done with EVE for now, unless I find some other appealing activity to pursue there.

    This months update?  Moving cyno fields into their own view.  Whoo hoo, yeah, that's not it.

    Begging my wife now to "let the people go."...





    Ungood

    "I should run a marathon backwards. So I could see what second place look like" Royce da 5'9"

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing FO76 ATM.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






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