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1999, the Promise of Virtual Worlds Revisited

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Comments

  • Mars_OrbitalMars_Orbital Member UncommonPosts: 330
    edited February 4
    The fact that a player can "come home" to a house that has an actual building and door in the rreeal world is pretty awesome. You see people coming and going, mounts lined up around the city because they don't vanish when you get off them, people chatting , ect. 

    Even though you are instanced in your house you can open the windows and see the world , I step out onto my balcony and it puts me back in the game world as I watch players go here or there. 

    People get so fixated on gear , and #o# is largly responsible for this, they simply don't think there is anything else in BDO, because they don't got the epics gear . I personally am chilling in my Life Skill clothes 3 quarters of my time :D. Just reached a new level in farming and got some clothes for free :D

    LotRO is my most played mmo, Age of Conan my second, now BDO coming in 3rd. I expect BDO is the last mmorpg I'll every play. Yes a lot of great games coming, but none have the scope and features  of BDO and I believe BDO may get a cross over into Eve., but we will see.
    Post edited by Mars_Orbital on
    Azaron_NightbladeKyleranCryomatrixOctagon7711
    "Killed just about everything that walked or crawled at one time or another,and I'm here to kill you Little Bill, for what you did to Ned" - William Munny / Unforgiven .
  • MendelMendel Marietta, GAMember EpicPosts: 2,764
    I agree, EQ1 in 1999 was amazing.  But that feeling of an amazing virtual world just never evolved.  Sure, there have been games with much better graphics, but the actual environment hasn't changed very much since the early days.  The amount of interaction with the environment is almost identical.  About the only things that have really been added are the various 'world containers' that serve as either resource collection nodes or random in-world containers that periodically spawn a bit of loot.

    Worse yet, the scope of the game world is frequently imbued with technology that takes the multi-player aspects out of the game.  What is the point for having a graphic appear on my screen and not on another person's if it isn't to encourage solo player actions?  Sure, the technology to allow multiple, but different instances of the environment is nifty, another something that wasn't in the 1st generation MMORPGs, but it does more to support single player activity than multi-player.

    Even Virtual Reality devices haven't tried to address the fundamental representation of the world you travel in.  Until the computerized environment changes significantly, I don't see a real purpose in VR technology.  If VR intends to use the same models, with the same possible interactions, I'd rather invest my money in a quality monitor, graphics card and precision mouse.

    RPG-type games haven't changed enough at several levels.  Certainly not enough to reproduce that same awe as it did 20 years ago.



    KyleranVermillion_RaventhallaseritPalebane

    Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.

  • AmatheAmathe Miami, FLMember EpicPosts: 4,398
    You say this, but I'm doing that exact thing in Black Desert Online.  Black Desert housing makes it possible to feel apart of a world, I have a house tht is my central point every time I log in; I rarely log out of the game anywhere but at my house; it is my house with usuable furnishing, In town there's markets, inns and other places where I can get items or sell items. From my house I travel across the lands to  fight monsters in untold stories, and then I head back to my 3 story house in Hiedel. For the past few days I've done farming, fishing , gather ' around my central hub" hiedel.  At this very second I'm brewing beer for my workers.

    That is where people miss out in Black Desert in my opinion. People who come from games like WoW assume the game is about the epic gear grind grind grind until they hit the soft cap ( and their faces melt of the effort it takes to become epic ), that is only a small part of the game .

    If one doesn't get into thew housing in any game, then yes, your view would be correct, but to generals that we are "all" in this lull of mmos is a person subjective opinion, one for which I don't share, at all. 


    This year is year 3 for me in BDO
    I'm not going to knock BDO, as I have not played it. And I'm glad for you and for anyone else who has found a game they truly like. 

    But just from what you posted, making beer for my workers so they can gather what I need to play house is not the fantasy adventure I am seeking. 

    I get that your house is also a jumpoff point to go fight monsters. But it also seems much like WoW's garrison, which I didn't really care for. 
    MrMelGibson

    EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests

  • Mars_OrbitalMars_Orbital Member UncommonPosts: 330
    edited February 5
    Amathe said:
    You say this, but I'm doing that exact thing in Black Desert Online.  Black Desert housing makes it possible to feel apart of a world, I have a house tht is my central point every time I log in; I rarely log out of the game anywhere but at my house; it is my house with usuable furnishing, In town there's markets, inns and other places where I can get items or sell items. From my house I travel across the lands to  fight monsters in untold stories, and then I head back to my 3 story house in Hiedel. For the past few days I've done farming, fishing , gather ' around my central hub" hiedel.  At this very second I'm brewing beer for my workers.

    That is where people miss out in Black Desert in my opinion. People who come from games like WoW assume the game is about the epic gear grind grind grind until they hit the soft cap ( and their faces melt of the effort it takes to become epic ), that is only a small part of the game .

    If one doesn't get into thew housing in any game, then yes, your view would be correct, but to generals that we are "all" in this lull of mmos is a person subjective opinion, one for which I don't share, at all. 


    This year is year 3 for me in BDO
    I'm not going to knock BDO, as I have not played it. And I'm glad for you and for anyone else who has found a game they truly like. 

    But just from what you posted, making beer for my workers so they can gather what I need to play house is not the fantasy adventure I am seeking. 

    I get that your house is also a jumpoff point to go fight monsters. But it also seems much like WoW's garrison, which I didn't really care for. 

    The house is a house. It is on a street in Hiedel with a street number. Insdie I have Cooking  and chemistry all usaable. The top floor is my bedroom I got three beds incase of company.  My workers are real in game world ,npcs that I can spot traveling  to their work areas. 

    I just looked at #0# gari/sson , nothing like that all. IO don't "jump off " from house in BDO because that is where I live. It is myty permant house in the game world, it serves as my home in BDO . 

    THis is kind of what I'm talking about, the "epic looters" who have no real desire to RP in a MMORPG , but simply gain recognition  because of "fats loots".  People wonder why they will never be happy, it is simply because if you started with #o# or even thought #0# was remotely good you really aren't an mmorgp player imho. 
    Post edited by Mars_Orbital on
    MrMelGibson
    "Killed just about everything that walked or crawled at one time or another,and I'm here to kill you Little Bill, for what you did to Ned" - William Munny / Unforgiven .
  • KyleranKyleran Paradise City, FLMember LegendaryPosts: 31,783
    Amathe said:
    You say this, but I'm doing that exact thing in Black Desert Online.  Black Desert housing makes it possible to feel apart of a world, I have a house tht is my central point every time I log in; I rarely log out of the game anywhere but at my house; it is my house with usuable furnishing, In town there's markets, inns and other places where I can get items or sell items. From my house I travel across the lands to  fight monsters in untold stories, and then I head back to my 3 story house in Hiedel. For the past few days I've done farming, fishing , gather ' around my central hub" hiedel.  At this very second I'm brewing beer for my workers.

    That is where people miss out in Black Desert in my opinion. People who come from games like WoW assume the game is about the epic gear grind grind grind until they hit the soft cap ( and their faces melt of the effort it takes to become epic ), that is only a small part of the game .

    If one doesn't get into thew housing in any game, then yes, your view would be correct, but to generals that we are "all" in this lull of mmos is a person subjective opinion, one for which I don't share, at all. 


    This year is year 3 for me in BDO
    I'm not going to knock BDO, as I have not played it. And I'm glad for you and for anyone else who has found a game they truly like. 

    But just from what you posted, making beer for my workers so they can gather what I need to play house is not the fantasy adventure I am seeking. 

    I get that your house is also a jumpoff point to go fight monsters. But it also seems much like WoW's garrison, which I didn't really care for. 

    The house is a house. It is on a street in Hiedel with a street number. Insdie I have Cooking  and chemistry all usaable. The top floor is my bedroom I got three beds incase of company.  My workers are real in game world ,npcs that I can spot traveling  to their work areas. 

    I just looked at #0# gari/sson , nothing like that all. IO don't "jump off " from house in BDO because that is where I live. It is myty permant house in the game world, it serves as my home in BDO . 

    THis is kind of what I'm talking about, the "epic looters" who have no real desire to RP in a MMORPG , but simply gain recognition  because of "fats loots".  People wonder why they will never be happy, it is simply because if you started with #o# or even thought #0# was remotely good you really aren't an mmorgp player imho. 
    All kinds of role playing, I never had much use for crafting or setting up a house, too much like real life I guess.

    Chasing loot is the strawman you keep building for yourself,  in my case I fancy myself more of a soldier of fortune, explorer or adventurer.

    I role played to the extreme as a member of the "kobo" hordes, right down to a special language and a totally communal shared resources society where the clan owned everything, and provided for all of our needs.




    laseritPhaserlight

    "I should run a marathon backwards. So I could see what second place look like" Royce da 5'9"

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing FO76 ATM.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • WizardryWizardry Ontario, CanadaMember EpicPosts: 15,419
    I started we had 14.4 modems and even when we hit 56k playing online was not good.I enjoyed UT99 but really only versus other 56k players.Some,a few were able to secure DSL back in 99 wile it was still being installed over time in many areas of the world.
    56k versus DSL was no contest,it took an extremely skilled player to beat a DSL player.I was one of the last 56k players,inspired by maybe the greatest 56k gamer ever "Destrukt" as he would constantly prove he could beat a DSL gamer with 56k.

    We hung out NO not in Battle.net but in Heat.net a more versatile gaming outlet that also allowed you to create your own private game servers...for FREE.In the chat rooms i constantly had people bugging me to play EQ1,i was like i don't really like much about that game and on 56k would be a nightmare to play.To think anyone would be playing on 28.8 is almost laughable.

    Yes heading online was very much so an excitement back then,geesh i remember playing Unreal98 while i was on AOL and my ping would be like 5000 LOL,unplayable but i was so excited to be out there i actually would get in some frags like maybe 4 or 5 in a game up to 30,quite a feat for 5k to  10k pings.

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • WizardryWizardry Ontario, CanadaMember EpicPosts: 15,419
    Even funnier is how we hear all the complaints now a days about UI configurations and difficulty of singing up at websites,example Square Enix was a nightmare to register with.

    Well back in the 90's we had to configure our sound card,our memory,our computers to actually start up and run to play these games.We had to create batch files,config files because some of our hardware was not fully compatible with that game .The lack of patience i see now,lol most these gamers would quit gaming if they had to go through what we did back then.
    The thought of adding the real human element to games was pure enjoyment,NOW..lol people want to get internet,logon to games to play SOLO....say what?

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • Vermillion_RaventhalVermillion_Raventhal Oxon Hill, MDMember EpicPosts: 3,279
    I always thought games would be like UO or SWG.  I do remember the wonder and hope with games up until after WoW.  At certain point you just understood the game.
    To be fair, WoW has some nice worlds too.
    Well I was saying after WoW.  I think WoW was a well crafted game.  Especially compared to the clones.
    Hatefulliixviiiixlaserit
  • Azaron_NightbladeAzaron_Nightblade KingsmouthMember EpicPosts: 4,568
    I always thought games would be like UO or SWG.  I do remember the wonder and hope with games up until after WoW.  At certain point you just understood the game.
    To be fair, WoW has some nice worlds too.
    Well I was saying after WoW.  I think WoW was a well crafted game.  Especially compared to the clones.
    Oh! My bad!
    For some reason I interpreted that as WoW being the game that made you lose that wonder and hope. :blush:

    My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)

    https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/Callaron/

  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Sioux City, IAMember RarePosts: 4,668
    I love the feeling of being in a virtual world, but I feel a lot of single player games deliver that at least as well as MMOs do.  But, maybe I just have a good imagination, since I felt like I was in a virtual world way back when I played Final Fantasy 7 for the first time.  No, even before that, when I played Myst for the first time.
    I agree and can name a few single player games that had/have wonderful worlds.

    What MMOs bring is the "unknown factor." Other players add something to the game, many times even good things :)

    Single player games are all scripted to the last line of code. There is no randomness at all to those worlds. They certainly give the illusion of randomness, but really aren't. Single player games, more-so today, also like to cutscene us into to oblivion. It's a lot harder for MMOs to work in cut scenes, though some have tried :)

    I tried to heal a Mammoth in Skyrim, fighting some Sabrecats. That silly elephant left the cats and  attacked me! In an MMO, I may get attacked for a drive by heal or not.

    Why I like MMORPGs is the other players adding to the game. All NPC talk is canned, whether in single player or MMOs. Chat with another player has no bounds, good or bad. Other players can give minor tasks to lower level players, like gathering spell components. You could be losing in a fight and MMOs allow other players to ask, "Do you need or want help?" Never seen that in a single player game :)

    Don't get me wrong. My game time is spent almost 99.9% with single player games these days, as MMOs are not for me anymore. I enjoy the worlds some of these single player games have created. But they are canned with very few surprises. I enjoy Skyrim so much because it so vast I still find new things in the game with each new game. But those things were there from the beginning, not added later or by another player.

    I hope that long-winded reply made sense :)
    laseritKyleranPhaserlight

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR

  • AmatheAmathe Miami, FLMember EpicPosts: 4,398

    THis is kind of what I'm talking about, the "epic looters" who have no real desire to RP in a MMORPG , but simply gain recognition  because of "fats loots".  People wonder why they will never be happy, it is simply because if you started with #o# or even thought #0# was remotely good you really aren't an mmorgp player imho. 
    So you went from me not wanting to play in an online house to my being an "epic looter"  who isn't a "mmorpg player?" That's quite a leap. 

    Judging from your post, I don't think you know what a WoW Garrison is.


    EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests

  • Mars_OrbitalMars_Orbital Member UncommonPosts: 330
    Amathe said:

    THis is kind of what I'm talking about, the "epic looters" who have no real desire to RP in a MMORPG , but simply gain recognition  because of "fats loots".  People wonder why they will never be happy, it is simply because if you started with #o# or even thought #0# was remotely good you really aren't an mmorgp player imho. 
    So you went from me not wanting to play in an online house to my being an "epic looter"  who isn't a "mmorpg player?" That's quite a leap. 

    Judging from your post, I don't think you know what a WoW Garrison is.


    Truthfully, I don't a give a crap what anything #0# is.
    "Killed just about everything that walked or crawled at one time or another,and I'm here to kill you Little Bill, for what you did to Ned" - William Munny / Unforgiven .
  • Mars_OrbitalMars_Orbital Member UncommonPosts: 330
    Kyleran said:
    Amathe said:
    You say this, but I'm doing that exact thing in Black Desert Online.  Black Desert housing makes it possible to feel apart of a world, I have a house tht is my central point every time I log in; I rarely log out of the game anywhere but at my house; it is my house with usuable furnishing, In town there's markets, inns and other places where I can get items or sell items. From my house I travel across the lands to  fight monsters in untold stories, and then I head back to my 3 story house in Hiedel. For the past few days I've done farming, fishing , gather ' around my central hub" hiedel.  At this very second I'm brewing beer for my workers.

    That is where people miss out in Black Desert in my opinion. People who come from games like WoW assume the game is about the epic gear grind grind grind until they hit the soft cap ( and their faces melt of the effort it takes to become epic ), that is only a small part of the game .

    If one doesn't get into thew housing in any game, then yes, your view would be correct, but to generals that we are "all" in this lull of mmos is a person subjective opinion, one for which I don't share, at all. 


    This year is year 3 for me in BDO
    I'm not going to knock BDO, as I have not played it. And I'm glad for you and for anyone else who has found a game they truly like. 

    But just from what you posted, making beer for my workers so they can gather what I need to play house is not the fantasy adventure I am seeking. 

    I get that your house is also a jumpoff point to go fight monsters. But it also seems much like WoW's garrison, which I didn't really care for. 

    The house is a house. It is on a street in Hiedel with a street number. Insdie I have Cooking  and chemistry all usaable. The top floor is my bedroom I got three beds incase of company.  My workers are real in game world ,npcs that I can spot traveling  to their work areas. 

    I just looked at #0# gari/sson , nothing like that all. IO don't "jump off " from house in BDO because that is where I live. It is myty permant house in the game world, it serves as my home in BDO . 

    THis is kind of what I'm talking about, the "epic looters" who have no real desire to RP in a MMORPG , but simply gain recognition  because of "fats loots".  People wonder why they will never be happy, it is simply because if you started with #o# or even thought #0# was remotely good you really aren't an mmorgp player imho. 
    All kinds of role playing, I never had much use for crafting or setting up a house, too much like real life I guess.

    Chasing loot is the strawman you keep building for yourself,  in my case I fancy myself more of a soldier of fortune, explorer or adventurer.

    I role played to the extreme as a member of the "kobo" hordes, right down to a special language and a totally communal shared resources society where the clan owned everything, and provided for all of our needs.




    "A straw man is a form of argument and an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while actually refuting anargument that was not presented by that opponent."

     just so you understand what a strawman is, because it is obvious you don't have clue but use the term like a fallcy. 

    In order to have a straman argument one must be providing information as an objective fact. I have not and maintained my "opinion" view . Unlike your rebuttal which is in fact a strawman because you are using the term "strawman "as an anchor of legitimacy or "truth".  Just so you know.
    Kyleran
    "Killed just about everything that walked or crawled at one time or another,and I'm here to kill you Little Bill, for what you did to Ned" - William Munny / Unforgiven .
  • KyleranKyleran Paradise City, FLMember LegendaryPosts: 31,783
    Kyleran said:
    Amathe said:
    You say this, but I'm doing that exact thing in Black Desert Online.  Black Desert housing makes it possible to feel apart of a world, I have a house tht is my central point every time I log in; I rarely log out of the game anywhere but at my house; it is my house with usuable furnishing, In town there's markets, inns and other places where I can get items or sell items. From my house I travel across the lands to  fight monsters in untold stories, and then I head back to my 3 story house in Hiedel. For the past few days I've done farming, fishing , gather ' around my central hub" hiedel.  At this very second I'm brewing beer for my workers.

    That is where people miss out in Black Desert in my opinion. People who come from games like WoW assume the game is about the epic gear grind grind grind until they hit the soft cap ( and their faces melt of the effort it takes to become epic ), that is only a small part of the game .

    If one doesn't get into thew housing in any game, then yes, your view would be correct, but to generals that we are "all" in this lull of mmos is a person subjective opinion, one for which I don't share, at all. 


    This year is year 3 for me in BDO
    I'm not going to knock BDO, as I have not played it. And I'm glad for you and for anyone else who has found a game they truly like. 

    But just from what you posted, making beer for my workers so they can gather what I need to play house is not the fantasy adventure I am seeking. 

    I get that your house is also a jumpoff point to go fight monsters. But it also seems much like WoW's garrison, which I didn't really care for. 

    The house is a house. It is on a street in Hiedel with a street number. Insdie I have Cooking  and chemistry all usaable. The top floor is my bedroom I got three beds incase of company.  My workers are real in game world ,npcs that I can spot traveling  to their work areas. 

    I just looked at #0# gari/sson , nothing like that all. IO don't "jump off " from house in BDO because that is where I live. It is myty permant house in the game world, it serves as my home in BDO . 

    THis is kind of what I'm talking about, the "epic looters" who have no real desire to RP in a MMORPG , but simply gain recognition  because of "fats loots".  People wonder why they will never be happy, it is simply because if you started with #o# or even thought #0# was remotely good you really aren't an mmorgp player imho. 
    All kinds of role playing, I never had much use for crafting or setting up a house, too much like real life I guess.

    Chasing loot is the strawman you keep building for yourself,  in my case I fancy myself more of a soldier of fortune, explorer or adventurer.

    I role played to the extreme as a member of the "kobo" hordes, right down to a special language and a totally communal shared resources society where the clan owned everything, and provided for all of our needs.




    "A straw man is a form of argument and an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while actually refuting anargument that was not presented by that opponent."

     just so you understand what a strawman is, because it is obvious you don't have clue but use the term like a fallcy. 

    In order to have a straman argument one must be providing information as an objective fact. I have not and maintained my "opinion" view . Unlike your rebuttal which is in fact a strawman because you are using the term "strawman "as an anchor of legitimacy or "truth".  Just so you know.
    Your first strawman presented as fact to support your opinion on why people don't get BDO. "That is where people miss out in Black Desert in my opinion. People who come from games like WoW assume the game is about the epic gear grind grind grind until they hit the soft cap ( and their faces melt of the effort it takes to become epic ), that is only a small part of the game ."

    2nd strawman came here, arguing something I never said or even implied in my OP or its follow-ups.  "Your attempt to draw some conclusion that "no games" fits your standard so the whole genre is shit argument is old boring and redundant to the 21st century of gaming."

    3rd Strawman, again never stating such, just a projection on your part,  "But I guess the world revolves around you .... #snooze thread "

    The next strawman is a rant against WOW which again wasn't put forth by anyone in this thread but you.  "People get so fixated on gear , and #o# is largly responsible for this, they simply don't think there is anything else in BDO, because they don't got the epics gear." 

    Just so you know, gamers have been fixated on gear since the earliest RPGs, and certainly most of us gear chased in early MMORPGs. 

    In fact, DAOC was the first game I used spreadsheets to calculate spell crafting charges for optimization of crafted gear and who didn't want Dragon raid loot including weapon dyes, glowies and respec stones?

    Finally, to this point, "In order to have a straman argument one must be providing information as an objective fact."

    Where did you pull this from?  First definition I come across is

    "A straw man is a form of argument and an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while actually refuting an argument that was not presented by that opponent. One who engages in this fallacy is said to be "attacking a straw man." 

    I've clearly shown you arguing against points no one here including me ever made, which as I said I'm not interested in debating.

    Perhaps if you quit trying so hard to come across as an aggrieved party for issues entirely fabricated by you and trying to belittle my understanding of a term the conversation might be more productive.

    Just so you know, I can do this all year.

    :D
    MendelAmatheMrMelGibson

    "I should run a marathon backwards. So I could see what second place look like" Royce da 5'9"

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing FO76 ATM.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • Mars_OrbitalMars_Orbital Member UncommonPosts: 330
    edited February 5
    think instead of going through the redundacy , i will simply block you. it makes it easier to negate rreally bad trolling.
    Post edited by Mars_Orbital on
    "Killed just about everything that walked or crawled at one time or another,and I'm here to kill you Little Bill, for what you did to Ned" - William Munny / Unforgiven .
  • KyleranKyleran Paradise City, FLMember LegendaryPosts: 31,783
    edited February 5
    think instead of going through the redundacy , i will simply block you. it makes it easier to negate rreally bad trolling.
    And with this move,  I win. Often happens when you back them into a corner.

    Awesome.  :D
    Post edited by Kyleran on
    MrMelGibson

    "I should run a marathon backwards. So I could see what second place look like" Royce da 5'9"

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing FO76 ATM.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • AmatheAmathe Miami, FLMember EpicPosts: 4,398
    *You are in Hiedel.*

    *The smell of cooking and chemistry wafts down the street from a three bedroom house.*

    *You hear a small child crying.*

    "@Kyleran stole my strawman and won't give it back."
    KyleranMrMelGibson

    EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests

  • Mars_OrbitalMars_Orbital Member UncommonPosts: 330
    edited February 6
    The wonder of any mmo imho is a persons imgimation.
    Post edited by Mars_Orbital on
    Kyleran
    "Killed just about everything that walked or crawled at one time or another,and I'm here to kill you Little Bill, for what you did to Ned" - William Munny / Unforgiven .
  • SephirosoSephiroso Marietta, GAMember RarePosts: 2,003
    edited February 5
    Asm0deus said:
    For myself that feeling we had back then is now in the VR realm for me.   mmo or game back then I felt were like windows into another world/reality...your basic form of escapism to get away from real life and live in another.

    I think with VR it bring back some of the amazeballs factor because the immersion can be so much more though I grant there still a long way to go for VR.
    VR is a game changer (pun intended).

    I let my 5 year old try on my Gear VR for a minute the other day, and his sense of wonder was immediate and palpable.  His reaction was more or less I can't believe it... I'm inside Minecraft?

    I made him take it off after literally a minute as there are warnings in the owner manual and on starting up the system that it's not for children under 13 due to uncertainty in how it might affect developing eyesight.

    Looking forward to the release of the Quest.
    Wake me up when we got .hack//sign or Log Horizon level VR. That to me is what VR is, not what we call "VR".
    Post edited by Sephiroso on
    Phaserlight

    image
    Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!

  • Vermillion_RaventhalVermillion_Raventhal Oxon Hill, MDMember EpicPosts: 3,279
    AlBQuirky said:
    I love the feeling of being in a virtual world, but I feel a lot of single player games deliver that at least as well as MMOs do.  But, maybe I just have a good imagination, since I felt like I was in a virtual world way back when I played Final Fantasy 7 for the first time.  No, even before that, when I played Myst for the first time.
    I agree and can name a few single player games that had/have wonderful worlds.

    What MMOs bring is the "unknown factor." Other players add something to the game, many times even good things :)

    Single player games are all scripted to the last line of code. There is no randomness at all to those worlds. They certainly give the illusion of randomness, but really aren't. Single player games, more-so today, also like to cutscene us into to oblivion. It's a lot harder for MMOs to work in cut scenes, though some have tried :)

    I tried to heal a Mammoth in Skyrim, fighting some Sabrecats. That silly elephant left the cats and  attacked me! In an MMO, I may get attacked for a drive by heal or not.

    Why I like MMORPGs is the other players adding to the game. All NPC talk is canned, whether in single player or MMOs. Chat with another player has no bounds, good or bad. Other players can give minor tasks to lower level players, like gathering spell components. You could be losing in a fight and MMOs allow other players to ask, "Do you need or want help?" Never seen that in a single player game :)

    Don't get me wrong. My game time is spent almost 99.9% with single player games these days, as MMOs are not for me anymore. I enjoy the worlds some of these single player games have created. But they are canned with very few surprises. I enjoy Skyrim so much because it so vast I still find new things in the game with each new game. But those things were there from the beginning, not added later or by another player.

    I hope that long-winded reply made sense :)
    I loved early MMORPG because of the unknown and unpredictability.  The genre is now very predictable and not really a journey or establishment of my character.  

    One reason why I hope someone can bring meaningful player conflict and back away from easy content of questing, insane power progression and loot. These are usually just empty and boring events just to string us along because there usually isn't anything to the games.  They usually aren't fun things but work justified by sparklies.
    AlBQuirkyPalebaneSteelhelm
  • iixviiiixiixviiiix GSMember RarePosts: 1,774
    edited February 6
    Sephiroso said:
    Asm0deus said:
    For myself that feeling we had back then is now in the VR realm for me.   mmo or game back then I felt were like windows into another world/reality...your basic form of escapism to get away from real life and live in another.

    I think with VR it bring back some of the amazeballs factor because the immersion can be so much more though I grant there still a long way to go for VR.
    VR is a game changer (pun intended).

    I let my 5 year old try on my Gear VR for a minute the other day, and his sense of wonder was immediate and palpable.  His reaction was more or less I can't believe it... I'm inside Minecraft?

    I made him take it off after literally a minute as there are warnings in the owner manual and on starting up the system that it's not for children under 13 due to uncertainty in how it might affect developing eyesight.

    Looking forward to the release of the Quest.
    Wake me up when we got .hack//sign or Log Horizon level VR. That to me is what VR is, not what we call "VR".
    We ready at .hack//sign and Log Horizon level , it just that there are no game yet .
    And Log Horizon is not VR but another world , the game version itself is just PC one .

    .Hack// is using HMD head mounted display and use controller to control character . The HMD using in .hack// is 3DoF , same level with oculus go that connect with PC . The game itself i think is same with skyrim using 3DoF VR on console .

    Instead of big world , .Hack// use zones . So i think you can run less than 1000 players in one zone with action FPS combat easy .

    ih .hack// most people using same character skins so i think it's pretty light to run compare to heavy custom character games .
    Post edited by iixviiiix on
    Phaserlight
  • Vermillion_RaventhalVermillion_Raventhal Oxon Hill, MDMember EpicPosts: 3,279
    I don't Log Horizon was VR.
  • SephirosoSephiroso Marietta, GAMember RarePosts: 2,003
    I don't Log Horizon was VR.
    Yep, they were playing a VR mmorpg called Elder Tale and something happened during an expansion update to where the people who were online during it got permanently stuck there.

    image
    Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!

  • WarmakerWarmaker San Diego, CAMember UncommonPosts: 2,241
    I remember the first years of MMORPGs were a joy.  Multiplayer worlds with other people was a new, novel thing.  Everyone was excited about it.  Players were a lot more social back then.  Groups were the norm.  I remember in Star Wars Galaxies, if I wasn't in a group, even if it was composed fully of strangers, it was a weird occasion.  I log in, eventually I typically found my way in a group.  Whether it was in a hunting party on some place like Dathomir, Lok, etc., or one of the starter areas where I took my well established, equipped character and helped out new players learn the game.  I did that the same way some veteran player showed me the ropes when he saw me struggle with stuff out in the middle of nowhere.  I remember during those long hunting groups, there would be breaks, someone would setup a camp.  People actually... You know... TALKED to each to each other.

    Things started changing in the mid 2000s.  Devs started implementing penalties to groups (less XPs being a very annoying one), characters being more self sufficient in all cases and no longer needing the aid of other players, class types.  MMORPGs even got to a point where you can play from start thru endgame and not require any other player at any time to group up with.  A few even gave companion NPCs in an MMORPG so you don't even need to form a player party at all.

    The players also became more anti-social with groups.  If you found an MMORPG where groups were actually formed, as soon as the quest is done, the group instantly disperses, most not even saying, "Bye!"


    IMO, MMORPGs today are a farce, especially as time has gone on.  They are closer to an SPRPG that requires a constant internet connection to play.
    AlBQuirky

    "I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)

  • SephirosoSephiroso Marietta, GAMember RarePosts: 2,003
    iixviiiix said:
    Sephiroso said:
    Asm0deus said:
    For myself that feeling we had back then is now in the VR realm for me.   mmo or game back then I felt were like windows into another world/reality...your basic form of escapism to get away from real life and live in another.

    I think with VR it bring back some of the amazeballs factor because the immersion can be so much more though I grant there still a long way to go for VR.
    VR is a game changer (pun intended).

    I let my 5 year old try on my Gear VR for a minute the other day, and his sense of wonder was immediate and palpable.  His reaction was more or less I can't believe it... I'm inside Minecraft?

    I made him take it off after literally a minute as there are warnings in the owner manual and on starting up the system that it's not for children under 13 due to uncertainty in how it might affect developing eyesight.

    Looking forward to the release of the Quest.
    Wake me up when we got .hack//sign or Log Horizon level VR. That to me is what VR is, not what we call "VR".
    We ready at .hack//sign and Log Horizon level , it just that there are no game yet .
    And Log Horizon is not VR but another world , the game version itself is just PC one .

    .Hack// is using HMD head mounted display and use controller to control character . The HMD using in .hack// is 3DoF , same level with oculus go that connect with PC . The game itself i think is same with skyrim using 3DoF VR on console .

    Instead of big world , .Hack// use zones . So i think you can run less than 1000 players in one zone with action FPS combat easy .

    ih .hack// most people using same character skins so i think it's pretty light to run compare to heavy custom character games .
    You know what i think you're right on both of those. I gave terrible examples, just grabbed at the easiest thing most would recognize but over the years my memory has blurred and i forgot that you're right in both of those anime's it was mentioned that it was essentially a PC game that they were playing(i remember Subaru crying in front of her pc now).

    A better example of what i'm wanting but lesser known due to no anime is a korean novel Overgeared. Players logged onto that vr mmorpg by getting inside of a capsule, their bodies essentially asleep. The game had accelerated time, i believe it was set to 3x the time of irl. So, it was all in  your head basically. Another example of yet another korean novel is Rebirth of the Thief Who Roamed the World, which like the first one i mentioned players would connect to the game via a capsule with no controller whatsoever.

    image
    Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!

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