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SBFordSBFord Former Associate EditorMember LegendaryPosts: 33,127
edited January 2019 in News & Features Discussion EXPOSED -

Two weeks ago, the fans of this site got to look behind the curtain of the MMORPG news media and they didn’t like what they saw. Factual, admittedly heavy-hearted coverage led to the revocation of access. I’d hoped to move beyond that subject this week but, with my integrity called into question, I feel an explanation of the writing process is owed to our readers.

Read the full story here




  • jahlonjahlon Member UncommonPosts: 387
    Two weeks ago, the fans of this site got to look behind the curtain of the MMORPG news media and they didn’t like what they say?

    Should that end with saw?

  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 29,840
    I'm confused. What didn't they like?
    bartoni33NycteliosOctagon7711ThaharBananable[Deleted User]KlikaeMrMelGibsonGorweYashaXand 2 others.
  • immoralthangimmoralthang Member UncommonPosts: 282
    edited January 2019
    I like this site because it focuses on the games. There is no virtue signaling or activism, just MMORPGs. Keep up the good work!
    WhiteLanternRolanStormTierlessTuor7PhaedruslivesOctagon7711IlayaThaharAmatheUkurvand 18 others.
  • alloinalloin Member UncommonPosts: 133
    It's not what it used to be, all I see are biased posts and sponsored content.... You can lie about it, but it's still there...
    SBFordWhiteLanternKalebGraysonPanther2103KyleranmmolouAzothWhiskeydustTaneoniamspamicusand 14 others.
    We are all satoshi!
  • AeanderAeander Member LegendaryPosts: 6,631
    edited January 2019
    I think that, in general, there is a consumer vs. critic disconnect that is odd and unsettling considering consumers rely on critics for protection, while critics rely on consumers for revenue and recognition.

    And both sides are at fault. We as consumers label virtually every journalism site (especially IGN, Polygon, and Kotaku from my experience) negatively, often for petty reasons or the gradual addition of isolated reviews devoid of context. Meanwhile, journalists tend to lump us all into the same angry, unintelligent hate mob. Both forces cause a mutual breakdown in respect and communication, and both harm the consumer. The only ones to benefit from this are the companies that can discredit critical reviews and keep costumers in a blind, ravenous stupor.

    I think we need to remember that all gaming review outlets are an amalgamation of many people with many different opinions. They aren't one hivemind, and there are always going to be inconsistencies as a result, which don't imply an overall bias or agenda for the site as a whole. Mike, Bill, Susie, Tim, and the others are each different people with different opinions, that just happen to work for the same outlet. Just imagine if Jim Sterling, Angry Joe, Yong Yea, SidAlpha, and the late Totalbiscuit all worked under one umbrella, and what a variation of opinions and reactions that would cause.
    bartoni33MadFrenchieEponyxDamorMeleconOctagon7711MendelThaharGobstopper3DJimWraithwingoodand 7 others.
  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 29,840
    edited January 2019
    alloin said:
    It's not what it used to be, all I see are biased posts and sponsored content.... You can lie about it, but it's still there...
    So here's a thought, you are basically making a claim that no one can defend against. if you don't like what they say you can easily say they are selling out AND they are lying no matter what.

    Couldn't we do the same about you? You are from other sites, other developers and you are here to sew discord/disparage the games on this site. You can lie about it but we know it's true.

    there you see?

    It's ridiculous.

    It doesn't foster good discussion and just seems like a dysfunctional way of operating.

    Do they have sponsored content? Yes absolutely. They do mark it as such.

    Some people have had issue as to where that message is located and it seems that is more about growing pains than anything else. Lately you see it in the title.

    Other than that I have no problem accepting that people have different tastes and that not everyone has to see eye to eye on everything. Just because you have your own tastes and disagree with people from the site doesn't mean that these people are being paid to put one over on you.

    Because that's a seems bit paranoid. Unless of course you truly paid to attack columnists and other games. ;)
    ApollosWillPanther2103bartoni33SailorMomRobsolfTuor7MadFrenchieTorvalKyleranTyranusPrimeand 22 others.
  • k61977k61977 Member RarePosts: 1,374
    Personally haven't really seen anything bad with the writing on this site. Sometimes the bad things do seem to be skimmed/glossed over but that is the case for any site that is trying to stay on the good side of the developers for the reasons mentioned in the article. If the forum users want to blast the negative things they can create forum post themselves and do just that, and by god they do, sometimes to many.

    About the only thing I can say in a negative tone is some of the ads that this site allows to run. There have been a few lately that have been extremely bad as effecting performance when posting and god knows what else. I run script blocker and ad blockers on this site now, at one point I didn't, that says a lot. My advice is worry more about that then people complaining because not enough articles are written about the bad things in games.
  • WhiteLanternWhiteLantern Member RarePosts: 3,179
    Not exactly sure what caused this article, but ok. Too much cynicism in the world today. Especially if "first blush" doesn't agree with "point of veiw".

    I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil

  • halfmystichalfmystic Member RarePosts: 318
    This is a confusing article. I'm going to pretend I didn't click on it.
    TierlessmeddyckAlomarRidelynnFacelessSavior[Deleted User]VinterkrigKlikaedraetlininfomatzand 3 others.
  • MeleconMelecon Member UncommonPosts: 74

    alloin said:

    It's not what it used to be, all I see are biased posts and sponsored content.... You can lie about it, but it's still there...

    If that's all you see, then there is nothing here for you and please move along. You don't need to make a post, you don't need to announce you are leaving just go. No one will miss you, no one will care.
  • BloodaxesBloodaxes Member EpicPosts: 4,523
    This must have something to do with that developer who didn't like what people said about his game and won't cover news here any more.

    With that said, while I understand the notion of this story, there are times that it seems like it. The "issue" for me at least, is when opinions are clearly evident in the narrative despite the issues are real. I don't know about you, but when certain articles are written (Obviously not all types mainly talking about reviews or when addressing blatant issues widely known), and problems are glossed over simply because the writer enjoys the game it's not going to bode well.

    I've been on this site for years now, and I understand how it had to evolve to keep relevant since mmos are a dying breed (sadly). That however shouldn't affect the way reviews are conducted. They should be impartial, and your opinion should NOT be the main factor of the article.

    All I have to say. Take it however you like it.

  • BlueThunderBearBlueThunderBear Member RarePosts: 228
    edited January 2019

    alloin said:

    It's not what it used to be, all I see are biased posts and sponsored content.... You can lie about it, but it's still there...

    You do realize that its literally impossible to review something without bias right? Reviews are literally just explanations of your opinions on something and your reason for holding those opinions. Edit: nevermind. I see a couple people seem to believe reviews are supposed to be based on... Cold unfeeling science i guess? This is basically the mentality that anything they agree with is objective but anything they dont like is either biased or shilling.
  • XarkoXarko Member EpicPosts: 1,172
    I don't think so, Tim.
  • Panther2103Panther2103 Member EpicPosts: 5,653

    alloin said:

    It's not what it used to be, all I see are biased posts and sponsored content.... You can lie about it, but it's still there...

    Biased posts are going to happen no matter who you are or where you go. Everyone has a bias, no matter what. Every impression you have on something causes you to create a bias.

    Also sponsored content is definitely necessary to keep a site afloat. I don't know where you go to get news, but I guarantee that they also have quite a bit of sponsored content.
  • TierlessTierless ColumnistMember EpicPosts: 3,379

    jahlon said:

    Two weeks ago, the fans of this site got to look behind the curtain of the MMORPG news media and they didn’t like what they say?

    Should that end with saw?

    Yeah but this writer is a hack so it works. ;)
    bartoni33BlueThunderBearWhiteLanternTorvalNeonSaruFacelessSaviorKlikaeThupliJimbobausinfomatzand 3 others.
    But not all men seek rest and peace; some are born with the spirit of the storm in their blood, restless harbingers, knowing no other path.
  • Roman291Roman291 Member UncommonPosts: 103
    I've reading articles on here since I got into MMORPGs before I joined the site in 2006. I will probably never lose trust in this site. Even if i don't agree with a columnist, because I always loved the site's honesty, and integrity. And honestly, i trust this site the most with all my gaming news.
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  • AeanderAeander Member LegendaryPosts: 6,631
    TimEisen said:

    jahlon said:

    Two weeks ago, the fans of this site got to look behind the curtain of the MMORPG news media and they didn’t like what they say?

    Should that end with saw?

    Yeah but this writer is a hack so it works. ;)
    From your writings, I'm not sure if you just enjoy self-depreciation or if you actually have depression. Either way, I see some of myself in you and think I respect you for it. 
  • PapaprikaPapaprika Member UncommonPosts: 55
    edited January 2019
    The problem is you are in the wrong business if you are looking for non biased methods. You can have good people in bad companies. You seem to hold yourself to a degree, of opinion and bias, as you say "I try and keep it to my standards", but then you say you have shaved your true intents in the name of "professionalism" I am curious, is mmorpg a sustainable job or do you work at other places? So obviously you are not schilling for big bucks, but what people tell themselves to work a regular job can be just as bad....
    You can't write any piece of literature without bias or an angle...(English 101). Hence the difficulty of essay writting...
    I don't get the white nighting for mmorpg. com, it's a game website. The game market is corrupted and obviously in a bizzare place where everyone seems to be getting sued or losing money after betting high or just running with it...what product are you trying to show as "good" here? It is like trying to protect cocaine dealers XD

    Any ways, the "fans" that visited obviously felt and saw something. I as a reader cann easily point out the short comings of this corrupt site. Back when Guild Wars 2 was about to launch. This site fan boied it up so hard... I had early access to game, and would post both pros and cons...and I would get perma banned for the "cons" I listed (which were never vulgar or breaking ToS).
    I had life bans on the first account, so I came back with a second thinking it's an error, and started discussing again. BAnned again. The only comments allowed were super fan boi "this is a wow killer" comments.
    When I asked why in a fourth account, the response was: "Baiting for trolling".... With no example... So critique , fair and balanced, was considered life time ban because it made other readers go toxic.
    The cherry on cake was one topic I had posted that lead to ban title "Is there a WoW killer got removed and I was told bagging on wow was a bannable offense...and year later, after staff changes, I see main feed titles bagging on WoW....*face palm* Guild wars 2 remained top of the ranked list ... for years. I had life banns on 4 email accounts and decided to stop coming here .
    I then went on to write for another mmorpg site, and made decent cash, some games toss you several hundred dollars to do a review... my first assignment was to do a review on an autoplay mobile mmorpg. I dooked all over it and showed pics and videos how I could swing my mouse around in the air as the game played itself LOL. I got 200 dollars from the company for bad mouthing the game.
    Over at mmos . Com they honostly said a chinese game was crap from a sponsor, and they got over 20K for just covering it despite bad mouthing it. So this whole "I have to be professional" is BS.
    Say what you want to say, unless mmorpg silencing you.

    Any ways, I came back here after the comment section was rehauled, and it seemed the staff changes took place.... I felt less hunted by the admins,

    Long story short. This site is not innocent. Don't hold yourself to a gold standard in the swamp of doo doo XD
  • KalebGraysonKalebGrayson Member RarePosts: 430
    I'm not sure I ever made a decision on buying or not buying a game based on someone's opinion from this site.  I read the article and then make up my own mind, based on my own research, reading of articles, and watching of videos.  I like this site.  I've been visiting this site for years.  I've never once questioned any staff members integrity here.  Haven't had reason to do so.  I see the same staff members and same posters here for the most part and value everyone's opinion.
  • BlueThunderBearBlueThunderBear Member RarePosts: 228

    TimEisen said:

    jahlon said:

    Two weeks ago, the fans of this site got to look behind the curtain of the MMORPG news media and they didn’t like what they say?

    Should that end with saw?

    Yeah but this writer is a hack so it works. ;)

    Yeah. I hear the fellow who wrote this article is secretly a Chupacabra masquerading as a journalist. Im not entirely sure I can trust a mythological goat demon for my news.
  • DragnelusDragnelus Member EpicPosts: 3,314
    edited January 2019
    I dont like the forums now, I like the old layout. 

    Edit: the mobile one

  • bartoni33bartoni33 Member RarePosts: 2,044
    edited January 2019
    Not sure what prompted this article but I will say this about what I have seen here in the last few years that is odd:

    A staff member creates an article that attempts to create a discourse on a RL issue that affects gaming, almost always a social issue. When that discussion inevitably starts to include input from those on the other side of the issue it gets shut down very quickly. It seems that some staff editorials are not intended to be commented on by those on the opposite sides of their opinion. They are not wanted. That seems VERY unprofessional to say the least. You have to know that when you create topics that are decisive you will hear from both sides. But you seem to not be prepared for it when it happens. Almost like you are surprised that someone actually sees things in the light you are negatively editorializing on.

    Just my 2p. Other that that this is one of the few sites I visit on a daily basis. Thank you for what you folks do!

    EDIT: If this is off-topic ( I guess it is, I don't really understand what the topic is) please delete it. I won't get mad. Just don't ban me!

    Bartoni's Law definition: As an Internet discussion grows volatile, the probability of a comparison involving Donald Trump approaches 1.

  • AeanderAeander Member LegendaryPosts: 6,631
    Dragnelus said:
    I dont like the forums now, I like the old layout. 

    Edit: the mobile one
    Agreed. The mobile site is completely fucked now and is already having a huge negative effect on my experience.
  • casdegerecasdegere Member UncommonPosts: 15
    edited January 2019
    So Tim, to sum up. You regurgitate what you, the writer learn from the developer first. I.E. facts about the game that you've been exposed to from the developers perspective (and we all know you can't control if these facts are true or not), THEN, give your opinion about these facts good or bad. I think what is at issue here is not this part so much. This is kind of the standard no?

    What appears to me anyway, to be at issue is a bit of pandering to the game developers when something really sounds like dog excrement. (And we do know why this occurs) Many of us come here to get the real skinny on upcoming games. We read your articles and to a degree, rely on your foreknowledge. To depart from this, to pander, may effect game hype and divert attention from other, more deserving games. I think you have the right to use 'loaded dice' if you feel you need to. Just don't expect everyone to be ok with it when you're caught. That said I still read the articles to get a sense of whats coming out and your impressions since 2004.
  • RobsolfRobsolf Member RarePosts: 4,597
    I think the problem lies in the fact that some people are too self involved to understand: a reviewer can like or dislike a game more than the reader does, and that that can absolutely occur without any conspiratorial agenda.

    It should go without saying, but these days, it clearly doesn't.

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