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3000 person battle?

Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 10,876

"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

My ignore list finally has one occupant after 12 years. I am the strongest supporter of free speech on here, but free speech does not mean forced listening. Have fun my friend. Hope you find a new stalking target.

tweedledumb99YashaXmeddyckAgent_Joseph
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Comments

  • tweedledumb99tweedledumb99 Member UncommonPosts: 236
    edited February 7
    Not yet it's not, sadly, at least not a lot.

    Builders can build but its in a test environment with low stakes where you cant really be attacked, and there are limited block options.

    Crafters can craft, but theres no tension to gathering materials and youre limited in what you can make and the visual differentiation.

    (EDIT: you can actually be attacked while building or crafting in your home-section of the islands, but enemies have to run a long way cause the map is freakin huge lol, so people rarely do it. So the tension is low because, while it's possible you'll be attacked at home base, I haven't seen it happen in months.)

    UI for both is placeholder.

    Combat feels alright, somewhat satisfying and visceral. And I find it easier to know what I'm doing and why I died/why I won than in ESO or GW2 despite playing both those games for 2+ years each.

    But the ability builder isnt in so we use placeholder abilities, they havent done a significant balance pass cause theres no point balancing the placeholders, groups and group abilities arent in yet, and we havent been asked to test full gameplay loops.

    So its pretty unbaked, and while I have fun, I get bored within an hour or so.

    But the good news for me (and ppl like me) is:

    These things arent much fun yet because they need to be built up more (i.e. the foundation is good feel-wise and design-wise, not just tech-wise); and not because the foundation is busted design-wise or feel-wise.

    Other people have different preferences, someone who wants more actiony or faster-paced combat may not like it, but I'm a fan of Mount and Blade, ArmA, DAoC, Skyrim Requiem Mod, and I'm very much in favour of slower, methodical, tense combat.

    (edit: I hit 'insightful' cause I didn't know there was an article up on Massively :P )

    Post edited by tweedledumb99 on
    ArteriusWaanMadFrenchieAlomarpantaroGaladournPhryAgent_Josephdruezkryntok
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 10,876
    So what you are saying is that they are 18 months out :)


    I'll have to load it up and give it my every 6 months test spin.

    tweedledumb99

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

    My ignore list finally has one occupant after 12 years. I am the strongest supporter of free speech on here, but free speech does not mean forced listening. Have fun my friend. Hope you find a new stalking target.

  • tweedledumb99tweedledumb99 Member UncommonPosts: 236
    edited January 28
    So what you are saying is that they are 18 months out :)


    I'll have to load it up and give it my every 6 months test spin.

    My guess/hope is between November 2020 and June 2021, but July 2020 would be nice too hah.

    And re: testing it out again, sweet.

    If you do it only once every 6 months and haven't been in a test in 5+ months, my (unsolicited) advice is:

    - wait for a siege test where they've got building destruction turned on, cause it's pretty damn cool.
    Phry
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 10,876
    So what you are saying is that they are 18 months out :)


    I'll have to load it up and give it my every 6 months test spin.

    My guess is between November 2020 and June 2021, but July 2020 would be nice too hah.

    And re: testing it out again, sweet.

    If you do it only once every 6 months and haven't been in a test in 5+ months, my (unsolicited) advice is:

    - wait for a test where they've got building destruction turned on, cause it's pretty damn cool lol.
    Yeah, I do not think I have seen building destruction in game yet.  I remember seeing a video but it was kind of lame in that when the base of a structure was destroyed, the remaining structure above just kind of hung there as long as there was some tenuous connection.

    I just always hate the way my character moves.  Always seems odd and off-putting.  It was getting better last time I was in, so there is hope!

    tweedledumb99

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

    My ignore list finally has one occupant after 12 years. I am the strongest supporter of free speech on here, but free speech does not mean forced listening. Have fun my friend. Hope you find a new stalking target.

  • tweedledumb99tweedledumb99 Member UncommonPosts: 236
    edited January 28
    So what you are saying is that they are 18 months out :)


    I'll have to load it up and give it my every 6 months test spin.

    My guess is between November 2020 and June 2021, but July 2020 would be nice too hah.

    And re: testing it out again, sweet.

    If you do it only once every 6 months and haven't been in a test in 5+ months, my (unsolicited) advice is:

    - wait for a test where they've got building destruction turned on, cause it's pretty damn cool lol.
    Yeah, I do not think I have seen building destruction in game yet.  I remember seeing a video but it was kind of lame in that when the base of a structure was destroyed, the remaining structure above just kind of hung there as long as there was some tenuous connection.

    I just always hate the way my character moves.  Always seems odd and off-putting.  It was getting better last time I was in, so there is hope! [my emphasis]

    Re: structures hanging/floating with no foundation, they seem to have mostly fixed that, at least as of last test I was in.

    The physics when it all comes down can look kinda hilarious, like being able to push around a 12 ton chunk of wall with a character, but that particular issue you name seems resolved.

    ---

    Re: the movement - YES! Fuck, exactly.

    At least I think I'm thinking of the same thing.

    There's a jitteryness when turning or changing angles that just puts me off.

    But it's weird, cause some of the other animations are just super buttery smooth, like the attack animations or the self-buff animations. (I playtest as a Fianna [tank]).

    Now that I think about it, it may just be cause they haven't tried to do animations for running and turning and movement transitions... at least I hope they haven't, cause it feels wonky as fuck lol.
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,483
    Not yet it's not, sadly, at least not a lot.

    Builders can build but its in a test environment with low stakes where you cant really be attacked, and there are limited block options.

    Crafters can craft, but theres no tension to gathering materials and youre limited in what you can make and the visual differentiation.

    UI for both is placeholder.

    Combat feels alright, somewhat satisfying and visceral. And I find it easier to know what I'm doing and why I died/why I won than in ESO or GW2 despite playing both those games for 2+ years each.

    But the ability builder isnt in so we use placeholder abilities, they havent done a significant balance pass cause theres no point balancing the placeholders, groups and group abilities arent in yet, and we havent been asked to test full gameplay loops.

    So its pretty unbaked, and while I have fun, I get bored within an hour or so.

    But the good news for me (and ppl like me) is:

    These things arent much fun yet because they need to be built up more (i.e. the foundation is good feel-wise and design-wise, not just tech-wise); and not because the foundation is busted design-wise or feel-wise.

    Other people have different preferences, someone who wants more actiony or faster-paced combat may not like it, but I'm a fan of Mount and Blade, ArmA, DAoC, Skyrim Requiem Mod, and I'm very much in favour of slower, methodical, tense combat.

    (edit: hit 'insightful' cause I didn't know there was an article up on Massively :P )
    This is why I can't play GW2 PvP.  The prevalence of conditions and such contribute, but it's just a mess of visual spam and little blinking icons that don't give you a good idea of what's what.  It needs a LOT of cleaning up and improvement in my opinion.
    tweedledumb99Hatefull

    image
  • tweedledumb99tweedledumb99 Member UncommonPosts: 236
    edited January 28
    So what you are saying is that they are 18 months out :)


    I'll have to load it up and give it my every 6 months test spin.

    My guess is between November 2020 and June 2021, but July 2020 would be nice too hah.

    And re: testing it out again, sweet.

    If you do it only once every 6 months and haven't been in a test in 5+ months, my (unsolicited) advice is:

    - wait for a test where they've got building destruction turned on, cause it's pretty damn cool lol.
    Yeah, I do not think I have seen building destruction in game yet.  I remember seeing a video but it was kind of lame in that when the base of a structure was destroyed, the remaining structure above just kind of hung there as long as there was some tenuous connection.

    I just always hate the way my character moves.  Always seems odd and off-putting.  It was getting better last time I was in, so there is hope!

    Erm, what access level do you have? There's an alpha test going on now with building destruction, it's an unstable build I think, but could be fun...
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 10,876
    So what you are saying is that they are 18 months out :)


    I'll have to load it up and give it my every 6 months test spin.

    My guess is between November 2020 and June 2021, but July 2020 would be nice too hah.

    And re: testing it out again, sweet.

    If you do it only once every 6 months and haven't been in a test in 5+ months, my (unsolicited) advice is:

    - wait for a test where they've got building destruction turned on, cause it's pretty damn cool lol.
    Yeah, I do not think I have seen building destruction in game yet.  I remember seeing a video but it was kind of lame in that when the base of a structure was destroyed, the remaining structure above just kind of hung there as long as there was some tenuous connection.

    I just always hate the way my character moves.  Always seems odd and off-putting.  It was getting better last time I was in, so there is hope!

    Erm, what access level do you have? There's an alpha test going on now with building destruction, it's an unstable build I think, but could be fun...
    I don't remember honestly... I know it's not IT level or whatever, but it seems like I have had access forever.

    Getting ready for a work trip so no gaming until Friday.

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

    My ignore list finally has one occupant after 12 years. I am the strongest supporter of free speech on here, but free speech does not mean forced listening. Have fun my friend. Hope you find a new stalking target.

  • WargfootYVWargfootYV Member UncommonPosts: 261
    Has anyone seen a 200+ battle in game yet that hasn't been a lagfest?
    Serious question.
  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 26,794
    Has anyone seen a 200+ battle in game yet that hasn't been a lagfest?
    Serious question.
    They did a stream where I believe they had more than that and it looked fine.
    tweedledumb99



  • tweedledumb99tweedledumb99 Member UncommonPosts: 236
    So what you are saying is that they are 18 months out :)


    I'll have to load it up and give it my every 6 months test spin.

    My guess is between November 2020 and June 2021, but July 2020 would be nice too hah.

    And re: testing it out again, sweet.

    If you do it only once every 6 months and haven't been in a test in 5+ months, my (unsolicited) advice is:

    - wait for a test where they've got building destruction turned on, cause it's pretty damn cool lol.
    Yeah, I do not think I have seen building destruction in game yet.  I remember seeing a video but it was kind of lame in that when the base of a structure was destroyed, the remaining structure above just kind of hung there as long as there was some tenuous connection.

    I just always hate the way my character moves.  Always seems odd and off-putting.  It was getting better last time I was in, so there is hope!

    Erm, what access level do you have? There's an alpha test going on now with building destruction, it's an unstable build I think, but could be fun...
    I don't remember honestly... I know it's not IT level or whatever, but it seems like I have had access forever.

    Getting ready for a work trip so no gaming until Friday.

    Ahh ok. Also, I just jumped in, the building destruction is there but probably isn't the best test. Hopefully they have something worth hopping into in the next 4-6 weeks.
  • tweedledumb99tweedledumb99 Member UncommonPosts: 236
    edited January 28
    Has anyone seen a 200+ battle in game yet that hasn't been a lagfest?
    Serious question.
    Was in a 360+ player (actual players; not bots) battle with high FPS (90+ on a 1080), low latency, with minimal (but existent) rubber-banding.
  • LokeroLokero Member RarePosts: 1,452
    The only indie-MMO that will actually be built with the foundation to be a literal MMO.

    All that extra time spent on tech has really been working in their favor, imho. 
    I'm glad they stuck with this route rather than laughably trying to cram hundreds of players into something like Unity, like Crowfall is struggling to do.
    MadFrenchieAlomartweedledumb99LobotomistGdemamiHatefull
  • tweedledumb99tweedledumb99 Member UncommonPosts: 236
    edited January 28
    Lokero said:
    The only indie-MMO that will actually be built with the foundation to be a literal MMO.

    All that extra time spent on tech has really been working in their favor, imho. 
    I'm glad they stuck with this route rather than laughably trying to cram hundreds of players into something like Unity, like Crowfall is struggling to do.
    Is Crowfall struggling with that?

    The last streams I saw from them, their PvP looked good and seemed like it had decent enough framerates, 30+ FPS at least (though obviously it wasn't on the same scale).
  • LobotomistLobotomist Member RarePosts: 5,811
    Lokero said:
    The only indie-MMO that will actually be built with the foundation to be a literal MMO.

    All that extra time spent on tech has really been working in their favor, imho. 
    I'm glad they stuck with this route rather than laughably trying to cram hundreds of players into something like Unity, like Crowfall is struggling to do.
    This



  • Truvidien88Truvidien88 Member UncommonPosts: 462
    That 23 Framerate though. On a serious note.. It's looking better and better. This is one game where I stop following it so when big news hits then I'm all aboard the hype train. 
    Ungood
  • DakeruDakeru Member EpicPosts: 3,712
    This is why I can't play GW2 PvP.  The prevalence of conditions and such contribute, but it's just a mess of visual spam and little blinking icons that don't give you a good idea of what's what.  It needs a LOT of cleaning up and improvement in my opinion.
    Actually they did that long ago.
    Pretty much all of the conditions are just damage over time now and their previous main effects are barely noticeable sideeffects now.
    tweedledumb99
    Harbinger of Fools
  • LokeroLokero Member RarePosts: 1,452
    Lokero said:
    The only indie-MMO that will actually be built with the foundation to be a literal MMO.

    All that extra time spent on tech has really been working in their favor, imho. 
    I'm glad they stuck with this route rather than laughably trying to cram hundreds of players into something like Unity, like Crowfall is struggling to do.
    Is Crowfall struggling with that?

    The last streams I saw from them, their PvP looked good and seemed like it had decent enough framerates, 30+ FPS at least (though obviously it wasn't on the same scale).
    Tbh, I don't know where Crowfall stands right now.  Scale is the issue.  They already scaled their dream of massive battles way back.
    So, they probably aren't struggling so much now.. due to smaller scale.

    @JamesGoblin or other Crowfall news-keepers:  Where are the player caps sitting at now?
    tweedledumb99
  • tweedledumb99tweedledumb99 Member UncommonPosts: 236
    Lokero said:
    Lokero said:
    The only indie-MMO that will actually be built with the foundation to be a literal MMO.

    All that extra time spent on tech has really been working in their favor, imho. 
    I'm glad they stuck with this route rather than laughably trying to cram hundreds of players into something like Unity, like Crowfall is struggling to do.
    Is Crowfall struggling with that?

    The last streams I saw from them, their PvP looked good and seemed like it had decent enough framerates, 30+ FPS at least (though obviously it wasn't on the same scale).
    Tbh, I don't know where Crowfall stands right now.  Scale is the issue.  They already scaled their dream of massive battles way back.
    So, they probably aren't struggling so much now.. due to smaller scale.

    @JamesGoblin or other Crowfall news-keepers:  Where are the player caps sitting at now?
    Ok, cool.

    I mean, that seems like a smart move on ArtCraft's part to scale back if large scale wasn't working.

    It seems like they can still have meaningful, fun, tense Guild vs. Guild or faction vs. faction battles without making it as large-scale - should still work well for the game they're designing.
  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 20,833
    Lokero said:
    The only indie-MMO that will actually be built with the foundation to be a literal MMO.

    All that extra time spent on tech has really been working in their favor, imho. 
    I'm glad they stuck with this route rather than laughably trying to cram hundreds of players into something like Unity, like Crowfall is struggling to do.
    Engine problems are caused not so much by using a particular engine as they are more specifically by using an engine without the ability to change whatever portions of it you need to change.  There's nothing wrong with using a game engine as a starting point and assuming that you'll need to redo major portions of it to make it do exactly what you want, and then doing exactly that.  It's when you try to use an off-the-shelf engine without the capability or resources to redo portions that can't handle what you need that games run into devastating problems.

    I haven't played Crowfall and don't know what they're doing for an engine.  Making your own engine certainly proves that you can, and distinguishes you from many competitors who can't.  But using considerable components of some other engine while redoing a ton of it to meet your needs won't cripple you, either.
    tweedledumb99Gdemami
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,483
    edited January 29
    Dakeru said:
    This is why I can't play GW2 PvP.  The prevalence of conditions and such contribute, but it's just a mess of visual spam and little blinking icons that don't give you a good idea of what's what.  It needs a LOT of cleaning up and improvement in my opinion.
    Actually they did that long ago.
    Pretty much all of the conditions are just damage over time now and their previous main effects are barely noticeable sideeffects now.
    Right, but it's hard to even notice who's throwing what at you, making it hard to focus fire the target that's inflicting the heaviest conditions (which you also can't tell readily).


    It still leaves a lot to be desired.  Clear feedback to the player is absolutely key, specifically to action-oriented games.

    image
  • RelampagoRelampago Member UncommonPosts: 324
    Crowfall is looking at hundreds.
    tweedledumb99
  • ThaneThane Member RarePosts: 3,338
    mark and co focused on the technical issue first. it simply wasn't possible to have what mark wanted on actual engines, so they (afaik) basically made up the whole network and game engine from scratch.

    imo fun starts at beta 2, which is about the next phase :P
    tweedledumb99

    "I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"

  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 16,221
    When i saw his first iteration of a video trying to show us several players at once,my head dropped,i felt sorry for this game.

    He had a bunch of PUNY very low poly characters on screen,NOTHING i would say looked good or even enticing me to take interest.When i have a player in a rpg,it has to look bigger than 5 pixels on a screen,the armor has to look good.If your are going to showcase some video on "the possibilities"i need to see an actual realistic.good looking character on screen to believe in any of it.
    Then the way more important side of gaming...FUN.Like this game could deliver 5 million players at one time,if the game is just doing nothing but flag players for pvp ,then why would i care about the game as a RPG?

    This game falls under the same umbrella as Crowfall,Indie games with small budgets trying to make a game that requires a lot more money and manpower.Small budgets make games like Moba's and Arpg's,Dota battle chess<<sigh,they don't deliver mmorpg's.

    Geesh large bankrolls,large teams cannot deliver a really good mmorpg.What i have seen for the past 30 years is stages,ok nice start>ok we are improving,now time to GET THERE and NOBODY is getting there.
    GdemamiKylerantweedledumb99druez

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • tweedledumb99tweedledumb99 Member UncommonPosts: 236
    Wizardry said:
    When i saw his first iteration of a video trying to show us several players at once,my head dropped,i felt sorry for this game.

    He had a bunch of PUNY very low poly characters on screen,NOTHING i would say looked good or even enticing me to take interest.When i have a player in a rpg,it has to look bigger than 5 pixels on a screen,the armor has to look good.If your are going to showcase some video on "the possibilities"i need to see an actual realistic.good looking character on screen to believe in any of it.
    Then the way more important side of gaming...FUN.Like this game could deliver 5 million players at one time,if the game is just doing nothing but flag players for pvp ,then why would i care about the game as a RPG?

    This game falls under the same umbrella as Crowfall,Indie games with small budgets trying to make a game that requires a lot more money and manpower.Small budgets make games like Moba's and Arpg's,Dota battle chess<<sigh,they don't deliver mmorpg's.

    Geesh large bankrolls,large teams cannot deliver a really good mmorpg.What i have seen for the past 30 years is stages,ok nice start>ok we are improving,now time to GET THERE and NOBODY is getting there.
    The game will have good graphics and large battles, check back in a year.

    Crowfall, Pantheon, CU are all going to deliver solid niche MMO's over the next 2-3 years, whether you care to get informed about them or not.

    Its more than flag for PvP. The whole game is built around entire realms fighting each other, everyone in your realm is on your team, everyone has a role to play (including in the RPG sense), healer, crafter, melee fighter, archer, builder, trader, assassin, scout.
    Gdemamidruez
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