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New Caspien tantrum about news coverage

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  • StaalBurgherStaalBurgher Member UncommonPosts: 255
    Interitus said:

    I just don't see other options available to them.

    But there is. I know a lot of players who have stopped putting money in the game because they aren't seeing progress.  There are people that come here and say if you could see NDA chat you would see progress being made.

    Does no one else see how insane it is that backers are being blocked from actual information because they haven't spent enough money?  Now we have information paywalls.

    If there is actual information that in the 10k+ exclusive that shows progress or eases fears. Share that with the other backers.  Then,  they might feel better about the progress of the game and would likely be more willing to go back to buying the random items that are sold in the digital store. 
    I don't see how that has anything to do with their funding methods. They would still have to sell cash shop items or something. Whether it is from a larger percentage of the population isn't relevant.
  • goboygogoboygo Member RarePosts: 1,992
    Shaigh said:
    It would be funny if it weren't for the fact that major publishers do the same thing. Keep writing positive stuff about  games and never give out poor reviews for publishers is how ign got exclusive access to anthem. Question things and give poor reviews is how you miss out on press events.
    I would agree if the franchise in question or the developer was a proven commodity that delivers, but you cant expect this kind of treatment for an unproven asset or company.  Yes I can see someone kissing Apple or Ubisoft's ass for some sort of exclusive but "Bobs Software Studio" isn't going get that kind of treatment.
    StaalBurgherAethaeryn
  • InteritusInteritus Member UncommonPosts: 236
    edited January 31
    I don't see how that has anything to do with their funding methods. They would still have to sell cash shop items or something. Whether it is from a larger percentage of the population isn't relevant.
    Because if someone feels comfortable in a project they are more likely to suggest it to a friend.  If I'm not paying for something and decide I don't like it, I'm certainly not going to tell my friend to also pay for it.

    And I had no illusion they would close the digital store. It simply gives a larger crowd who may feel more comfortable buying items.

    And again, an information paywall is simply a poor system, Completely regardless of making money.
    Post edited by Interitus on
    GdemamiPhaserlight
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,483
    Gdemami said:
    Interitus said:
    If there is actual information that in the 10k+ exclusive that shows progress or eases fears. Share that with the other backers. 
    ...what would be a point in spending that much money if you got the same level of 'involvement' as those who spent way less?

    Just because you don't get/disagree with something does not make it insane.
    What?  I thought these backers wanted to support passion projects, not buy their way into elite little (largely superfluous) social circles..


    It's almost like these folks' primary motivation isn't an altruism to help innovative projects get funded at all, but the idea they're getting some kind of unprecedented deal for buying into the hype earlier than ever before....  Crazy.
    EponyxDamorNycteliostweedledumb99MendelSovrathIselin

    image
  • Krynt0kKrynt0k Member UncommonPosts: 241
    Thanks bruh
  • MendelMendel Member EpicPosts: 3,058
    I think right now they are struggling with the extreme technical difficulties of their design. ...
    They are locked into a lot of design choices. They are limited in what they can change to ease some of the technical sticking points.
    ...

    These are the two main points I wish to discuss here.

    First, extreme technical difficulties.  SBS/Caspien brought this on themselves with the SpatialOS fiasco.  They relied on a technology believing it did things that it didn't.  Basically, they underestimated the difficulty, had a nebulous technical plan without any backup plans.  Their technology plan appears to be woefully inadequate, built without an accurate or complete understanding the core technology they wanted to use.  SpatialOS sounded good to them, but I don't think they actually understood what it could and couldn't do.  So, when they did discover the limitations of SpatialOS, they discarded that technology as a platform, and are trying to build a platform themselves without any background, experience or aptitude for building systems-level.

    Second.  Design choices.  The only thing locking SBS/Caspien into any design choice is Caspien's own stubbornness.  He made wild claims about features of his game, and is discovering that these features may not be feasible.  He is driving on towards the cliff, despite numerous warning signs that suggest an alternate ways down.  It wasn't his original plan and he doesn't give credence to the warnings or suggestions because others told him that first.  This seems to clearly be an ego issue.  He made promises.  People criticized promises.  He thinks, "I'll show them!", and continues down the original path just to prove that his detractors were wrong.  He sees changing plans or cutting features as some kind of personal insult.  He'd lose face in his mind, and that isn't happening.

    There's a chance that I'm misreading the situation based on information hidden behind some paywall.  But this is just me analyzing the personality behind the public events that have occurred / are occurring with CoE.



    GdemamiPhaserlightSlapshot1188tweedledumb99

    Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.

  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 11,599
    edited January 31
    Mendel said:
    SBS/Caspien brought this on themselves with the SpatialOS fiasco. 

    They relied on a technology believing it did things that it didn't.

    Basically, they underestimated the difficulty, had a nebulous technical plan without any backup plans.

    Their technology plan appears to be woefully inadequate, built without an accurate or complete understanding the core technology they wanted to use.

    SpatialOS sounded good to them, but I don't think they actually understood what it could and couldn't do.

    So, when they did discover the limitations of SpatialOS.
    Can you elaborate why one could anticipate SpatialOS scripting language depriciation?

    Can you elaborate what SpatialOS couldn't do?

    Can you elaborate on their 'technical plan' - whatever that is supposed be, and provide some evidence of lack of backup plans/alternatives?

    Can you elaborate and enlighten me with complete understanding of core technology they wanted to use and where exactly their 'technical plans' were supposedly inadequate?

    Can you elaborate what SpatialOS can and can't do?

    Can you elaborate on those limitations?


    You certainly must be way past any 'paywall' to posses all that very internal knowledge of the project, not to say pro level experience in sw/game development.

    Thanks.
    parrotpholkEponyxDamorturinmacleodtweedledumb99
  • RnjypsyRnjypsy Member UncommonPosts: 62
    edited January 31
    NorseGod said:
    I recently had this discussion with @Erillion

    This thread exposes an ongoing problem with gaming journalism.

    In order to have access to studios, gaming journalist (Disclaimer: Not all of them) have to give glowing reviews or be sanctioned by the studio. And that's if  studios don't out-right pay for good reviews with their marketing budgets.

    It should be the other way around. If a studio wants glowing reviews, then make a good game.

    Studio Access = New Site Content = Site Traffic = Advertisements = $$$ = Motive

    That's why gaming journalist reviews are not proof that a game is good. Is it good? Or did they say good things because the have to?
    Absolutely agree!  People have different like and dislikes in games and that's ok, but some things can be judged objectively  with more or less standard parameters.  Caspian's temper tantrum has nothing to do with objectivity and everything to do with unrealistic expectations.  Once you start expecting people(gamers and journalists) to ignore facts and/or shady business practices then you have already lost.  If journalists are cornered into waxing poetic over a turd sandwich then the articles they write will become as useless as the occasional fodder they are obligated to cover. Stand tough mmorpg.com and don't let them wear you down!
    Gdemami
  • LokeroLokero Member RarePosts: 1,426

    The posters here have been celebrating every real or imagined problem they have had for at least the last 12 months. It is not out of the blue for him to "cut MMORPG out". *face palm* Don't get me wrong, I think it is stupid. Caspian should shut up and get on with his project. You can't punish the internet for not liking you. It's absurd. Although it is clear big publishers get an easier ride when it comes to previews. It is unfair but that is life. Moaning about it is not going to help. That is why I have to *face palm* when Caspian once again comments publicly about this rubbish. Just shut up for God's sake.

    Yet... 300 threads, man, 3-0-0 threads... for a project you all think is going nowhere because (1) project lead is incompetent, (2) design is technically impossible, (3) there is no market for it. The only thing that has kept up this posting activity is your collective dislike of Caspian.
    @Slapshot1188 - creates the majority of the threads about this game.  Ironically, his personal crusade and witch-hunt aside, he probably is the greatest PR/ally the game has on this site.

    Tbh, I wouldn't even remember this game existed if it weren't for his constant critical threads.

    I don't think anyone is "celebrating" their problems, but some folks around here do like that "I was right!" feeling.  Even Slapshot didn't start out wanting them to fail... though, I think he might have boarded the actual hate-train over time.

    You are only proving the point for why there's so much criticism of Caspien, though.  You, yourself, are *face palm*ing and saying he needs to just shut up and go make his game.

    That's kind of where most of the criticism comes from.  He just keeps saying dumb things that make him look childish and ridiculous and throwing fits whenever anyone questions him, rather than showing some kind of work.

    There's just not much else to say about the project, currently.  As it stands now, all we ever see is Caspien's big mouth.. well, there's the fundraisers too.  There just isn't much other news about CoE.

    If they ever start showing some type of actual game, or even just hire a competent PR person, then there'd be something worth having a real discussion.
    GdemamiDakeru
  • WellspringWellspring Member EpicPosts: 1,200
    Gdemami said:
    Mendel said:
    SBS/Caspien brought this on themselves with the SpatialOS fiasco. 

    They relied on a technology believing it did things that it didn't.

    Basically, they underestimated the difficulty, had a nebulous technical plan without any backup plans.

    Their technology plan appears to be woefully inadequate, built without an accurate or complete understanding the core technology they wanted to use.

    SpatialOS sounded good to them, but I don't think they actually understood what it could and couldn't do.

    So, when they did discover the limitations of SpatialOS.
    Can you elaborate why one could anticipate SpatialOS scripting language depriciation?

    Easy, by reading the SpatialOS documentation. The JavaScript language was clearly marked as "experimental". 

    https://forums.improbable.io/t/javascript-sdk-removed-in-version-12/3188
    GdemamiSlapshot1188Dakeru
    --------------------------------------------
  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 11,599
    Easy, by reading the SpatialOS documentation. The JavaScript language was clearly marked as "experimental". 
    ...and?
    parrotpholktweedledumb99EponyxDamorWargfootYV
  • parrotpholkparrotpholk Member EpicPosts: 4,602
    Gdemami said:
    Mendel said:
    SBS/Caspien brought this on themselves with the SpatialOS fiasco. 

    They relied on a technology believing it did things that it didn't.

    Basically, they underestimated the difficulty, had a nebulous technical plan without any backup plans.

    Their technology plan appears to be woefully inadequate, built without an accurate or complete understanding the core technology they wanted to use.

    SpatialOS sounded good to them, but I don't think they actually understood what it could and couldn't do.

    So, when they did discover the limitations of SpatialOS.
    Can you elaborate why one could anticipate SpatialOS scripting language depriciation?

    Easy, by reading the SpatialOS documentation. The JavaScript language was clearly marked as "experimental". 

    https://forums.improbable.io/t/javascript-sdk-removed-in-version-12/3188
    Do not engage the zoo animals or feed them!

    He is not here for any serious discussion but just to give out the LOL.  As entertaining as it is, better off just not engaging.
    Slapshot1188GdemamiDakerutweedledumb99WellspringLokeroTacticalZombehEponyxDamorManWithNoTan
  • MendelMendel Member EpicPosts: 3,058
    Gdemami said:
    Easy, by reading the SpatialOS documentation. The JavaScript language was clearly marked as "experimental". 
    ...and?
    Experimental software is one of the highest risk factors in COCOMO modelling.  Their planned use of a high risk software platform makes their plan suspect.  If you don't feel that is a factor in project success, well, that's on you.

    And, my knowledge of SpatialOS isn't the issue, SBS's is.  My opinion based on public information is that SBS clearly did not understand fully what the product did and didn't do.  Instead, it appears they projected their wishes and hopes onto a product's features.  They thought SpatialOS could do what they wanted.  When they decided it didn't fit their needs, they abandoned it.  To me, that is entirely SBS's fault.  And choosing to rebuild a  core technology when a project had intended to use an off-the-shelf solution is a major project setback, no matter what project management methodology you choose to employ.

    I don't have personal experience with SpatialOS.  I have no real need to.  I do, however, read, particularly about new technology, especially new technology pertaining to MMORPG development.

    So, in questioning me about SpatialOS, you've shown not to be capable of understanding me.  Because I was concentrating on how SBS has approached and tried to use SpatialOS, not any criticism of the product.  SBS is the one who has chosen to discard that package and not modifying their game designs that *might* be impractical or unfeasible to implement.



    GdemamiMadFrenchietweedledumb99

    Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.

  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 11,599
    edited January 31
    Mendel said:
    Because I was concentrating on how SBS has approached and tried to use SpatialOS
    Oh, so you have no idea about sw development, no clue about programming either, you don't even care whether you actually understand a technology, yet you are somehow miraculously capable to analyze whether someone else was intending to use the technology properly...

    Just....wow...

    oh, and btw. SpatialOS isn't experimental software, whatever that is supposed to be so you are just off like with the rest of your tirade..
    parrotpholktweedledumb99EponyxDamorManWithNoTan
  • DakeruDakeru Member EpicPosts: 3,708
    Why are you guys even reacting to the troll?

    I vaguely remember when Caspien declared SpatialOS to be the solution to all the amazing features he wanted, even the guys of SpatialOS told him straight, that their product can't do all that cause it was never meant to do that.

    That tells me all I need to know about SpatialOS's limitations and more importantly:
    All of Caspien's limitations
    Gdemami
    Harbinger of Fools
  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 11,599
    Dakeru said:
    even the guys of SpatialOS told him straight, that their product can't do all that cause it was never meant to do that.
    ...source?
    IselinparrotpholkEponyxDamorWargfootYVGaladourn
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,483
    edited January 31
    Guys, @Gdemami has it tough enough reconciling his edge lord desires with his CoE fanboy desires.  He's trying to delicately balance remaining apathetic enough to retain the edge lord status while simultaneously defending his favorite game (that doesn't exist yet). 

    Give him a break. :D  It's hard out here for an edge fanboy....  An edgeboy.
    parrotpholkUngoodIselinKylerantweedledumb99EponyxDamor

    image
  • BrotherMaynardBrotherMaynard Member UncommonPosts: 56
    And to think that at one point I was seriously considering supporting their Kickstarter...

    Well, at least my not doing so has resulted in a much better mood today.
    MadFrenchieKyleranGaladourn
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 10,705
    Caspien had another meltdown on Discord today because someone dared to ask him where we were on development of a feature because we were nearing the end of the development window for it.  He freaked out on the guy and said “Nobody has given a window “ to which the guy replied with a screenshot of Caspien himself literally using the word window to describe this. (Fairly epic)

    That sent him off the deep end saying he’s”done” and he’s no longer going to give any indications of when they are working on things.  He went on and on.  With “Going forward I will answer no additional questions that include the word when”.

    What the heck?  The guy literally promised to publish a schedule on his website.  He doesn’t do that , then acts like a 2 year old when someone expects him to do what he said.  And people gave this guy $5M?  What a joke. 

    IMHO he is not only incompetent but I think he knows it and that’s why he reacts like this when questioned by a customer or by the MMORPG article.  This is how someone who has no self-confidence reacts.  Whether it’s to his customers or reacting to Tim’s mild article.  
    GdemamiSBFordDakeruMendelTacticalZombehIselinWellspringEponyxDamortweedledumb99Galadourn

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

    My ignore list finally has one occupant after 12 years. I am the strongest supporter of free speech on here, but free speech does not mean forced listening. Have fun my friend. Hope you find a new stalking target.

  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,483
    Caspien had another meltdown on Discord today because someone dared to ask him where we were on development of a feature because we were nearing the end of the development window for it.  He freaked out on the guy and said “Nobody has given a window “ to which the guy replied with a screenshot of Caspien himself literally using the word window to describe this. (Fairly epic)

    That sent him off the deep end saying he’s”done” and he’s no longer going to give any indications of when they are working on things.  He went on and on.  With “Going forward I will answer no additional questions that include the word when”.

    What the heck?  The guy literally promised to publish a schedule on his website.  He doesn’t do that , then acts like a 2 year old when someone expects him to do what he said.  And people gave this guy $5M?  What a joke. 

    IMHO he is not only incompetent but I think he knows it and that’s why he reacts like this when questioned by a customer or by the MMORPG article.  This is how someone who has no self-confidence reacts.  Whether it’s to his customers or reacting to Tim’s mild article.  
    He can't handle being held accountable for how own words/actions.

    It's a glorious trainwreck of a project lead to behold.
    GdemamiSlapshot1188EponyxDamor

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  • TorrskTorrsk Member UncommonPosts: 165
    As someone that is a heavy backer of CoE. I see this forum/website as the other side of the coin. CoE forums are getting more and more echo chamber as time goes on. Anytime they release anything, like this weekly *shiny*. It's met with "OMFG this is sooo cool". While some people do normally say why it wouldn't work. That's basically the only criticism that is ever said. I got zero idea if anything more is said on discord, since I can't be bothered with it anymore.

    While Slap can go a bit on the hate train. If others weren't replying back. One person making most of the threads would go nowhere. While even within his rants, not like he isn't making sense. So big woop if he spams out making threads. 

    But seems like attacking this website is just taking away from the fact that nothing is happening. If they were getting stuff done, then no one could say anything. Even if it was slowly getting done. But so far, nothing seems to be happening, well outside of the back end. The pre-elyira/vox/mud, whichever name is goes by now, was said to be coming ages back. While I have no idea if other game companies really do such a thing to speed up time. Seems nothing has been sped up. 

    The biggest thing that should happen, is Caspian needs to get the fuck off discord and get on with the game. He clearly can't handle himself. I find it interesting they basically say they have no time to post anything on the forums. But can waste so much time in discord answering basically everything. He normally slips up and gives info away that he shouldn't be, which naturally comes back to bite him.

    Of course I do know many people that aren't happy with the game, but that just don't bother voicing their opinion. Most of them just speak with their wallet by not giving anything more. 
    IselinSlapshot1188MadFrenchieKylerantweedledumb99AnOldFartEponyxDamorStaalBurgher
  • parrotpholkparrotpholk Member EpicPosts: 4,602
    Caspien had another meltdown on Discord today because someone dared to ask him where we were on development of a feature because we were nearing the end of the development window for it.  He freaked out on the guy and said “Nobody has given a window “ to which the guy replied with a screenshot of Caspien himself literally using the word window to describe this. (Fairly epic)

    That sent him off the deep end saying he’s”done” and he’s no longer going to give any indications of when they are working on things.  He went on and on.  With “Going forward I will answer no additional questions that include the word when”.

    What the heck?  The guy literally promised to publish a schedule on his website.  He doesn’t do that , then acts like a 2 year old when someone expects him to do what he said.  And people gave this guy $5M?  What a joke. 

    IMHO he is not only incompetent but I think he knows it and that’s why he reacts like this when questioned by a customer or by the MMORPG article.  This is how someone who has no self-confidence reacts.  Whether it’s to his customers or reacting to Tim’s mild article.  
    He can't handle being held accountable for how own words/actions.

    It's a glorious trainwreck of a project lead to behold.
    Sounds like a guy where the walls are closing in on him and the stress level has to be through the roof.  I do not feel bad for him nor am I making excuses for him.  But he acts like a person who is fighting to hold on but knows the dream is all but dead.  They may release something but who knows what it will look like.  
    StaalBurgher
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 12,454
    Guys, @Gdemami has it tough enough reconciling his edge lord desires with his CoE fanboy desires.  He's trying to delicately balance remaining apathetic enough to retain the edge lord status while simultaneously defending his favorite game (that doesn't exist yet). 

    Give him a break. :D  It's hard out here for an edge fanboy....  An edgeboy.
    I'm not sure he's a COE fanboy although I agree he does try too hard to be an edge lord.

    What I think his point is - and I may be giving him too much credit thinking that there is a point there underneath his condescension -  is that only developers are qualified to criticize developers.

    A strange world view to be sure but I think that's all there is to his trolling.
    MadFrenchietweedledumb99AnOldFart
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  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 32,947
    Iselin said:
    Guys, @Gdemami has it tough enough reconciling his edge lord desires with his CoE fanboy desires.  He's trying to delicately balance remaining apathetic enough to retain the edge lord status while simultaneously defending his favorite game (that doesn't exist yet). 

    Give him a break. :D  It's hard out here for an edge fanboy....  An edgeboy.
    I'm not sure he's a COE fanboy although I agree he does try too hard to be an edge lord.

    What I think his point is - and I may be giving him too much credit thinking that there is a point there underneath his condescension -  is that only developers are qualified to criticize developers.

    A strange world view to be sure but I think that's all there is to his trolling.
    A small correction, only game developers are fit criticize other game developers. 

    All others need not apply.

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  • XanzoXanzo Member UncommonPosts: 93
    This could be the Fyre festival all over again...
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