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Fallout 76 Devs Want Community Feedback on In-Game Events - MMORPG.com

SBFordSBFord Former Associate EditorMember LegendaryPosts: 33,122
edited January 17 in News & Features Discussion

imageFallout 76 Devs Want Community Feedback on In-Game Events - MMORPG.com

The latest Fallout 76 "Inside the Vault" newsletter has been published and it's packed full of news and information about what the team has been working on, what players can expect in the coming weeks and months. The letter offers information about bug fixing, closing exploits, Patch 5 news and "a new way of playing the game that remove[s] PvP restrictions".

Read the full story here



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Comments

  • mnemic666mnemic666 Member UncommonPosts: 224
    TLDR: We're basically an Early Access game. Please help.

    It's a positive development and I don't want to be too shitty about this, but damn if Bethesda's handling of FO76 hasn't looked painfully amateurish from the get-go. Not what one would expect from a major AAA developer, and hopefully it's resetting peoples opinions of Bethesda to more closely align with the reality of what they are and not the fantasy of how they've historically been viewed.
    adam_noxPanserbjorne39ScotAnskierArskaaaTacticalZombeh
  • AlbatroesAlbatroes Member LegendaryPosts: 6,282
    edited January 17
    How about that in-game dev room that people keep using their alts to take items out from, dup, and sell for real money.......
    doomexRain_DeathravenArskaaa
  • maskedweaselmaskedweasel Member EpicPosts: 10,231
    I always found it disheartening that developers would often penalize people for using "glitches" in the games they create when they aren't using 3rd party apps to do them.

    I've always felt that, if the glitch or duplication can be accessed in game without need for a 3rd party application to "cheat", people shouldn't be penalized, developers should just fix their game.  

    It's like if you find out that you can kill a vendor with a special weapon and take his stuff and nobody else can use him thereafter, and then the company says "people that kill the vendor are using an exploit and will be banned"  Just make it so the vendor can't die, don't punish people for doing what they obviously are going to do in a game, find a way to get the most rewards in the least amount of time. 
    MisterZebubTorvalbartoni33Rain_DeathravenetlarPalebane



  • MisterZebubMisterZebub Member LegendaryPosts: 3,564
    I always found it disheartening that developers would often penalize people for using "glitches" in the games they create when they aren't using 3rd party apps to do them.

    I've always felt that, if the glitch or duplication can be accessed in game without need for a 3rd party application to "cheat", people shouldn't be penalized, developers should just fix their game.  

    It's like if you find out that you can kill a vendor with a special weapon and take his stuff and nobody else can use him thereafter, and then the company says "people that kill the vendor are using an exploit and will be banned"  Just make it so the vendor can't die, don't punish people for doing what they obviously are going to do in a game, find a way to get the most rewards in the least amount of time. 
    My all time favorite situation like this is when Rainz managed to assassinate Lord British during the UO beta.
    TorvalmaskedweaseletlarTacticalZombeh

    "So now I curse that raven's fire
    You made me hate, you made me burn
    He laughed aloud as he flew from Eden
    You always knew, you never learn. . . . "

  • SpottyGekkoSpottyGekko Member EpicPosts: 6,883


    I always found it disheartening that developers would often penalize people for using "glitches" in the games they create when they aren't using 3rd party apps to do them.

    I've always felt that, if the glitch or duplication can be accessed in game without need for a 3rd party application to "cheat", people shouldn't be penalized, developers should just fix their game.  

    It's like if you find out that you can kill a vendor with a special weapon and take his stuff and nobody else can use him thereafter, and then the company says "people that kill the vendor are using an exploit and will be banned"  Just make it so the vendor can't die, don't punish people for doing what they obviously are going to do in a game, find a way to get the most rewards in the least amount of time. 



    You are part of the problem, it seems...

    Exploits can't be instantly fixed. The problem needs to be clearly identified, analyzed and then a fix has to be designed and coded. Then that fix has to be tested to make sure it doesn't have unintended consequences. That can take quite while in some cases.

    There are a few players who'll discover an exploit, notify the devs and then leave it alone until it's fixed. Unfortunately, they seem to be in the minority, because they behave like responsible adults, not like spoilt children.

    IlayaetlarAnskierTacticalZombeh
  • AlomarAlomar Member RarePosts: 1,181
    My feedback: Should have labeled the game as early access, which it is, instead of lying to your costumers. Many of which have been fans for over a decade and now think severely less of you.
    bartoni33TacticalZombehPalebane
    Fortes Fortuna Iuvat

    18 year MMO veteran 
    Retired PvP Raid Leader 
    Lover of The Witcher & CD Projekt Red

  • alkarionlogalkarionlog Member RarePosts: 2,523
    I guess they could invite the 20 or so people to a discoord and ask then what they want in the game
    EldrachPhry
    FOR HONOR, FOR FREEDOM.... and for some money.
  • AlverantAlverant Member RarePosts: 1,117
    Given how they've handled themselves so far, the "feedback" will only last until someone asks, "Where are our refunds?!"
    ScotPhry
  • halfmystichalfmystic Member RarePosts: 254
    I see no more reason to hate on this. I want them to improve it and make it a great game, even though it should have been at launch.

    So I very much plan on giving feedback while I play. For all you guys beating the already horribly mush looking dead horse corpse, I suggest just forgetting this game exists until you hear it's good again then come back like lemmings.

    JJuuussstt like you did with No Man's Sky.

    The community never changes.
    Phryalkarionlog
  • AlmostLancelotAlmostLancelot Member UncommonPosts: 135
    edited January 17

    Albatroes said:

    How about that in-game dev room that people keep using their alts to take items out from, dup, and sell for real money.......




    Even worse, they claim to be banning "everyone who goes into the room" since learning about it.

    Which, unfortunately, is a complete lie. I know at least five individuals who all used third party tools to gain access to the room and not a single one of them has been banned. Myself and a few other guys in our Discord have reported them repeatedly, with evidence, and no action has been taken.

    Same story with dupers, the main group banned have been Youtubers who openly advertised themselves abusing exploits and then teaching the community how to do the same.

    I'd estimate, conservatively, that at least 80% of the population that took part in duping are still and never will be dealt with. It's comical that they are even trying to act like they care now after letting these issues knowingly run rampant for months on end.

    Bethesda, although never having had a stellar rep, has somehow managed to tank the little bit it did have from mediocre to straight up laughable.
  • maskedweaselmaskedweasel Member EpicPosts: 10,231


    I always found it disheartening that developers would often penalize people for using "glitches" in the games they create when they aren't using 3rd party apps to do them.

    I've always felt that, if the glitch or duplication can be accessed in game without need for a 3rd party application to "cheat", people shouldn't be penalized, developers should just fix their game.  

    It's like if you find out that you can kill a vendor with a special weapon and take his stuff and nobody else can use him thereafter, and then the company says "people that kill the vendor are using an exploit and will be banned"  Just make it so the vendor can't die, don't punish people for doing what they obviously are going to do in a game, find a way to get the most rewards in the least amount of time. 



    You are part of the problem, it seems...

    Exploits can't be instantly fixed. The problem needs to be clearly identified, analyzed and then a fix has to be designed and coded. Then that fix has to be tested to make sure it doesn't have unintended consequences. That can take quite while in some cases.

    There are a few players who'll discover an exploit, notify the devs and then leave it alone until it's fixed. Unfortunately, they seem to be in the minority, because they behave like responsible adults, not like spoilt children.

    If a game was created properly there wouldn't be exploits that "can't be instantly fixed". 

    To say that Fallout 76 was released in proper working order and the duping bug was something that slipped through the cracks and thereby shouldn't have been exploited, well that would be a downright incorrect statement. 

    Fallouts beta was little more than a server stress test, which, by the way, was unsuccessful because the servers to this day are still wildly unstable. Had they postponed launch for even a month, these issues would have likely been dealt with, at least the initial duping problem.  

    This is 100% on the development team, and misusing an exploit in a game, sorry, it isn't really even an exploit. It's inherent in the function of the game. Games have rules, and issues apparent in the game that allow you to circumvent the rules are part of the game. It's not as though the issues weren't reported, it's not like some underlying secret was kept from the developers.  

    This issue has been documented, and ways to duplicate items have been around since launch. For 2 months duping has been inherent in the game, and heavily documented in videos and posts.  

    Not using it doesn't make you anymore adult, and people who do aren't any more childish. Not fixing it or testing your game properly so you don't have these issues does make you less of a trustworthy developer though.



  • WBadgerWBadger Member UncommonPosts: 281


    I always found it disheartening that developers would often penalize people for using "glitches" in the games they create when they aren't using 3rd party apps to do them.

    I've always felt that, if the glitch or duplication can be accessed in game without need for a 3rd party application to "cheat", people shouldn't be penalized, developers should just fix their game.  

    It's like if you find out that you can kill a vendor with a special weapon and take his stuff and nobody else can use him thereafter, and then the company says "people that kill the vendor are using an exploit and will be banned"  Just make it so the vendor can't die, don't punish people for doing what they obviously are going to do in a game, find a way to get the most rewards in the least amount of time. 



    You are part of the problem, it seems...

    Exploits can't be instantly fixed. The problem needs to be clearly identified, analyzed and then a fix has to be designed and coded. Then that fix has to be tested to make sure it doesn't have unintended consequences. That can take quite while in some cases.

    There are a few players who'll discover an exploit, notify the devs and then leave it alone until it's fixed. Unfortunately, they seem to be in the minority, because they behave like responsible adults, not like spoilt children.

    If a game was created properly there wouldn't be exploits that "can't be instantly fixed". 

    To say that Fallout 76 was released in proper working order and the duping bug was something that slipped through the cracks and thereby shouldn't have been exploited, well that would be a downright incorrect statement. 

    Fallouts beta was little more than a server stress test, which, by the way, was unsuccessful because the servers to this day are still wildly unstable. Had they postponed launch for even a month, these issues would have likely been dealt with, at least the initial duping problem.  

    This is 100% on the development team, and misusing an exploit in a game, sorry, it isn't really even an exploit. It's inherent in the function of the game. Games have rules, and issues apparent in the game that allow you to circumvent the rules are part of the game. It's not as though the issues weren't reported, it's not like some underlying secret was kept from the developers.  

    This issue has been documented, and ways to duplicate items have been around since launch. For 2 months duping has been inherent in the game, and heavily documented in videos and posts.  

    Not using it doesn't make you anymore adult, and people who do aren't any more childish. Not fixing it or testing your game properly so you don't have these issues does make you less of a trustworthy developer though.
    I completely disagree.  This is somewhat similar to the exploit from neverwinter where people said the exploit had been there for so long that it's somewhat have become a feature.

    It's not.  If it was an inherent INTENDED function in the game would be a different story, but no matter how long has gone along that is not the case which is made clear by them banning people for it.  It's an accidental function, and sure they are incompetent for not fixing it as quickly as they should have since it's causing havoc, but that by no means give people leeway to exploit it to the ability they could.  An exploit is not given legitimacy by time, no matter how documented it is or how well known it is.  It's an exploit, and if you are using an inherently wrong piece of code in the game to get an advantage over other players, then you are wrong to do so.
  • maskedweaselmaskedweasel Member EpicPosts: 10,231
    Wankyudo said:

    I completely disagree.  This is somewhat similar to the exploit from neverwinter where people said the exploit had been there for so long that it's somewhat have become a feature.

    It's not.  If it was an inherent INTENDED function in the game would be a different story, but no matter how long has gone along that is not the case which is made clear by them banning people for it.  It's an accidental function, and sure they are incompetent for not fixing it as quickly as they should have since it's causing havoc, but that by no means give people leeway to exploit it to the ability they could.  An exploit is not given legitimacy by time, no matter how documented it is or how well known it is.  It's an exploit, and if you are using an inherently wrong piece of code in the game to get an advantage over other players, then you are wrong to do so.
    Here's the kicker though, there are a lot of functions that aren't "intended".

    It's a slippery slope.  For example, in the recent patch, they dropped XP substantially on glowing mobs, why? Because people found that was the fastest way to level, and apparently it was a bug and unintended that glowing mobs give as much XP as they do.

    SO what of the people that "exploited" those glowing mobs?  What of the "exploit" of people logging off and back on again, to get them to spawn faster than their respawn timer (which often bugged and wouldn't respawn until people did) 

    It's the same thing. It's not just "balancing" in many cases, bugs and exploits inherent in games are part of the game. Whether you spin it as intended or unintended, that's all part of it. Bugs are not intended, yet they are part of the game. With each patch and iteration those bugs change, some get fixed, some don't, but because they happen, it doesn't mean the players should be penalized for the incompetence of ... well ... the "dev team".

    Another bug that occurs, the fusion core reset bug,  if you log out in your power armor and log back in, it always refills your core power, people can easily juice power cores, as many as they want by doing that.  Unintended? You betcha. Exploit? Certainly could be considered such. But it happens and nearly everyone encounters it.... should everyone be punished for it?


    Hmmmm...
    Torvalbartoni33etlar



  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,483
    edited January 17
    Wankyudo said:

    I completely disagree.  This is somewhat similar to the exploit from neverwinter where people said the exploit had been there for so long that it's somewhat have become a feature.

    It's not.  If it was an inherent INTENDED function in the game would be a different story, but no matter how long has gone along that is not the case which is made clear by them banning people for it.  It's an accidental function, and sure they are incompetent for not fixing it as quickly as they should have since it's causing havoc, but that by no means give people leeway to exploit it to the ability they could.  An exploit is not given legitimacy by time, no matter how documented it is or how well known it is.  It's an exploit, and if you are using an inherently wrong piece of code in the game to get an advantage over other players, then you are wrong to do so.
    Here's the kicker though, there are a lot of functions that aren't "intended".

    It's a slippery slope.  For example, in the recent patch, they dropped XP substantially on glowing mobs, why? Because people found that was the fastest way to level, and apparently it was a bug and unintended that glowing mobs give as much XP as they do.

    SO what of the people that "exploited" those glowing mobs?  What of the "exploit" of people logging off and back on again, to get them to spawn faster than their respawn timer (which often bugged and wouldn't respawn until people did) 

    It's the same thing. It's not just "balancing" in many cases, bugs and exploits inherent in games are part of the game. Whether you spin it as intended or unintended, that's all part of it. Bugs are not intended, yet they are part of the game. With each patch and iteration those bugs change, some get fixed, some don't, but because they happen, it doesn't mean the players should be penalized for the incompetence of ... well ... the "dev team".

    Another bug that occurs, the fusion core reset bug,  if you log out in your power armor and log back in, it always refills your core power, people can easily juice power cores, as many as they want by doing that.  Unintended? You betcha. Exploit? Certainly could be considered such. But it happens and nearly everyone encounters it.... should everyone be punished for it?


    Hmmmm...
    There's also cases where developers have thrown their hands in the air with regards to a glitch being utilized so widely by the playerbase and is so key to the playerbase's current experience with the game that it's necessary to roll it into the "core" experience as a feature.

    Chivalry: Medieval Warfare and dragging/swing manipulation comes to mind.  It looks awful and it's so contrived there's no way the devs could've intended it to be the main tactical point of combat, yet it was so prevalent and effective they now view it as an "intended" feature.
    maskedweasel

    image
  • WBadgerWBadger Member UncommonPosts: 281
    Wankyudo said:

    I completely disagree.  This is somewhat similar to the exploit from neverwinter where people said the exploit had been there for so long that it's somewhat have become a feature.

    It's not.  If it was an inherent INTENDED function in the game would be a different story, but no matter how long has gone along that is not the case which is made clear by them banning people for it.  It's an accidental function, and sure they are incompetent for not fixing it as quickly as they should have since it's causing havoc, but that by no means give people leeway to exploit it to the ability they could.  An exploit is not given legitimacy by time, no matter how documented it is or how well known it is.  It's an exploit, and if you are using an inherently wrong piece of code in the game to get an advantage over other players, then you are wrong to do so.
    Here's the kicker though, there are a lot of functions that aren't "intended".

    It's a slippery slope.  For example, in the recent patch, they dropped XP substantially on glowing mobs, why? Because people found that was the fastest way to level, and apparently it was a bug and unintended that glowing mobs give as much XP as they do.

    SO what of the people that "exploited" those glowing mobs?  What of the "exploit" of people logging off and back on again, to get them to spawn faster than their respawn timer (which often bugged and wouldn't respawn until people did) 

    It's the same thing. It's not just "balancing" in many cases, bugs and exploits inherent in games are part of the game. Whether you spin it as intended or unintended, that's all part of it. Bugs are not intended, yet they are part of the game. With each patch and iteration those bugs change, some get fixed, some don't, but because they happen, it doesn't mean the players should be penalized for the incompetence of ... well ... the "dev team".

    Another bug that occurs, the fusion core reset bug,  if you log out in your power armor and log back in, it always refills your core power, people can easily juice power cores, as many as they want by doing that.  Unintended? You betcha. Exploit? Certainly could be considered such. But it happens and nearly everyone encounters it.... should everyone be punished for it?


    Hmmmm...
    There's a bit of a difference though between unavoidable type bugs and avoidable types.  People are going to kill glowing mobs no matter what just because those glowing mobs are more difficult with higher chance of loot.  That difficulty is proportionate to the amount of exp, so even the high amount of exp would be believable as a reasonable amount given the difficulty in killing one.  More importantly though, those mobs are in the game.  Whether their statistics or variables are glitched is irrelevant because if they are in the game, they can be killed. Same with the fusion core, anybody could accidentally happen into it and most people would simply log out in their power armor just because it's extra weight you don't need to add to your inventory.  Ultimately both are bugs on a very minor scale, at least in my opinion.

    Duping is a whole different can of worm though because you are physically creating another item that is not intended to be in the game.  Most of the time you have to go out of your way to do so, so the intent is very clear versus someone who just happened to be farming glowing mobs to get more legendary gear.  It's more akin to you taking a $20 bill, and counterfeiting it to make more $20 bills and then trying to use them as legal tender versus you going to a sales associate who always miscounts the change and gives you an extra dollar.  You don't know he always does that, so it's not your fault you got a free dollar, but you definitely know you're at fault if you are counterfeiting items.

  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 16,199
    This is ONLY happening because they took so much flak for deceiving and ripping people off.This is only their PR team saying stuff that makes them sound good but in reality,they couldn't give a crap.
    You think the CEO and top execs are sitting a their dinner table thinking,man i can't wait to hear what the community has to say?

    They care about making money,bonuses and will do it anyway they feel best suits their budget and timeline and investors demands.

    To me it s VERY simple,you do NOT need feedback,you if having ANY gaming experience at all,ANY creativity should know what would be cool and fun.You know what approach is taken 99.9% o the time?

    click some marker over a npc head then begin to grind some kind of stat number then get some reward.They do not need to add a single thing and very little code needs to happen,they can simply make the content about math and a few formula's,the amount of work it would take maybe 2/3/4 people.
    I am certain i am not alone in saying that i and MANY other people could design some really cool events that feel like an event.Another example of LAZY,transform some creature model into a 10x version of itself and call him a WORLD BOSS,then call it an EVENT...sigh.Develpers don't want to give us a single thing anymore,instead they are looking for new ways to nickle and dime us like with loot boxes or golden keys,geesh Trion tried to sell $100 loot boxes,RU serious?
    Alverant

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • adam_noxadam_nox Member UncommonPosts: 2,114
    Game is excellent. Gets a bunch of hate from people who haven't played it more than a few minutes. Enjoy your CJ guys.
    Rain_Deathraven
  • maskedweaselmaskedweasel Member EpicPosts: 10,231
    Wankyudo said:
    Wankyudo said:

    I completely disagree.  This is somewhat similar to the exploit from neverwinter where people said the exploit had been there for so long that it's somewhat have become a feature.

    It's not.  If it was an inherent INTENDED function in the game would be a different story, but no matter how long has gone along that is not the case which is made clear by them banning people for it.  It's an accidental function, and sure they are incompetent for not fixing it as quickly as they should have since it's causing havoc, but that by no means give people leeway to exploit it to the ability they could.  An exploit is not given legitimacy by time, no matter how documented it is or how well known it is.  It's an exploit, and if you are using an inherently wrong piece of code in the game to get an advantage over other players, then you are wrong to do so.
    Here's the kicker though, there are a lot of functions that aren't "intended".

    It's a slippery slope.  For example, in the recent patch, they dropped XP substantially on glowing mobs, why? Because people found that was the fastest way to level, and apparently it was a bug and unintended that glowing mobs give as much XP as they do.

    SO what of the people that "exploited" those glowing mobs?  What of the "exploit" of people logging off and back on again, to get them to spawn faster than their respawn timer (which often bugged and wouldn't respawn until people did) 

    It's the same thing. It's not just "balancing" in many cases, bugs and exploits inherent in games are part of the game. Whether you spin it as intended or unintended, that's all part of it. Bugs are not intended, yet they are part of the game. With each patch and iteration those bugs change, some get fixed, some don't, but because they happen, it doesn't mean the players should be penalized for the incompetence of ... well ... the "dev team".

    Another bug that occurs, the fusion core reset bug,  if you log out in your power armor and log back in, it always refills your core power, people can easily juice power cores, as many as they want by doing that.  Unintended? You betcha. Exploit? Certainly could be considered such. But it happens and nearly everyone encounters it.... should everyone be punished for it?


    Hmmmm...
    There's a bit of a difference though between unavoidable type bugs and avoidable types.  People are going to kill glowing mobs no matter what just because those glowing mobs are more difficult with higher chance of loot.  That difficulty is proportionate to the amount of exp, so even the high amount of exp would be believable as a reasonable amount given the difficulty in killing one.  More importantly though, those mobs are in the game.  Whether their statistics or variables are glitched is irrelevant because if they are in the game, they can be killed. Same with the fusion core, anybody could accidentally happen into it and most people would simply log out in their power armor just because it's extra weight you don't need to add to your inventory.  Ultimately both are bugs on a very minor scale, at least in my opinion.

    Duping is a whole different can of worm though because you are physically creating another item that is not intended to be in the game.  Most of the time you have to go out of your way to do so, so the intent is very clear versus someone who just happened to be farming glowing mobs to get more legendary gear.  It's more akin to you taking a $20 bill, and counterfeiting it to make more $20 bills and then trying to use them as legal tender versus you going to a sales associate who always miscounts the change and gives you an extra dollar.  You don't know he always does that, so it's not your fault you got a free dollar, but you definitely know you're at fault if you are counterfeiting items.

    The first dupe was actually something people could kind of fall into. It was extremely easy to do. The other dupe was a little tougher to come by, because it required creation of a non consumable stackable item, stacked over 300. 

    But either way, accidentally duping an item, or accidentally juicing a fusion core, and duping 1000 items and juicing 1000 fusion cores aren't that much different. One is intentional, sure, but both are inherent in the game. For 2 months. 

    While I don't agree with the duping people are doing, and selling the same items over and over again for real money, I also don't think people should be banned for it. I think some people should have account and inventory reviews, people that are selling dozens of the same legendary item...

    (you can actually get multiples of the same legendary item that do stack, but the chances of running into multiples of the same one... like 10, 20, 30 or 100 times is ... impossible at this stage in the game.) 

    But overall, duping is mostly inconsequential in FO76. 

    adam_nox said:
    Game is excellent. Gets a bunch of hate from people who haven't played it more than a few minutes. Enjoy your CJ guys.
    I'm highly critical of some of the stuff they've done in FO76 and I'm pretty sure I have more hours logged than most people. Game isn't excellent, it's fun, but it's still pretty frustrating, and not ready for prime time.
    Agent_Joseph



  • Gobstopper3DGobstopper3D Member RarePosts: 835

    adam_nox said:

    Game is excellent. Gets a bunch of hate from people who haven't played it more than a few minutes. Enjoy your CJ guys.



    Maybe that is all the time it takes to see that it wasn't/isn't ready to be released yet here we are...

    I'm not an IT Specialist, Game Developer, or Clairvoyant in real life, but like others on here, I play one on the internet.

  • syltmackasyltmacka Member UncommonPosts: 364
    ill be glad if i could even play it. get disconnected everytime. ps4.
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 11,485
    Don't worry guys by this time next year the beta will be finished you will have a game worth buying.
    Agent_JosephTacticalZombehRain_Deathraven

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  • RegnorRegnor Member UncommonPosts: 108
    You want feedback? Here's some feedback: you should have built the game from the ground up, avoiding the use of a game engine that has been used to build a single player game. With so many functions available in the game client, hackers are having a field day creating whatever kind of exploits they want, by just manipulating client-side commands. Raph Koster warned: "The client is the enemy", and that was like 10 years ago.

    And oh, please, please fix the two-minute load times. Talk about immersion breaking.

    I still can't believe what I saw at the reveal event for this new game: Todd Howard actually joking on stage about how Bethesda game have bugs. Bethesda is proud of their "heritage".
    GdemamiAgent_Joseph

    Men do not stop playing because they grow old. They grow old because they stop playing. -- Oliver Wendell Holmes

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