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MMORPGs dead? Nonsense! This is the most exciting time for upcoming games that I can remember.

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  • VesaviusVesavius Member RarePosts: 7,883
    edited January 11
    Luiden said:
    Sorry, it's never been worse.  The MMORPG has been dead for quite some time now

    If you want to do a deeper dive into why MMORPGs are so bad just look at the developers who build them.  To be blunt, today's generation does not have...

    I think the reality is that there are 2 things that have to change..

    1.  The business model where they spend massive amount of resources on figuring out how to rape players for every penny they can.

    2.  Time.. it's going to be a few more years before the millennials age out of game development and a new generation...

    Yeah, I normally stop at the get off my lawn 'this generation' stuff. Of course millenials can build and launch great games. Thinking that they can't is a ridiculous mindset.

    But, look, I get the monetisation complaints. I was one of the few voices here that was hardline anti cash shop here on mmorpg.com when they and the rot of the F2P model were appearing in western MMORPGs. I was always of the view that they were anti consumer and unethical exploitation, even when the majority of the forum members were 100% on board the hype train of it all and cash shops were being hailed as the saviour of gaming by most. The threads we had arguing this were huge and the pro sub people were a small minority. I agree that cash shops are not ideal and I still won't play a game with loot boxes. I get it, but I also have to say... I tried telling everyone this would all happen years ago and very few listened. At this point I am... Well, mmorpg players made their bed, time to lay in it. But, yes, the current state of monetisation is shitty.

    But, I just don't see the upcoming crop of games being overly weighed down by unethical revenues, or suffering from having to put resources into building a cash shop. I don't think the complaint is that justified.
    Post edited by Vesavius on
    craftseeker
  • Tatsuya9411Tatsuya9411 Member UncommonPosts: 24
    edited January 11
    Vesavius said:
    Now, I admit... I toook some time away from mainstream MMORPGs because the whole thing was boring to me, preferring to play classic Everquest, but I have to say... The future looks so bright to me. So many choices from Ashes of Creation to Hytale to watch grow and maybe eventually play.

    I think I am back!

    Why is the general vibe in the genre so deflated and negative? I don't get it.

    remember when people said that Bless Online will totally be awesome and all that jazz?

    Remember when people were hyped for Ark?

    Please excuse my cynism but talking and promises are cheap.

    OG_ZorvanAsm0deuscraftseekerAlBQuirkyThupli
  • cheyanecheyane Member EpicPosts: 6,043
    edited January 11
    I am playing Fallen Earth. I got invited to a very nice clan and someone in the clan gave me a great rifle. The game has no classes and the combat can be clunky if you're not used to it and I am pretty dumb at new things. I am old so I learn things slowly. I am almost level 8.

    I love the crafting. The fact is you just wander around as it is an open world, it has many good quests and the game is surprisingly deep because of the skill system. Of course I am very low level and I have done a few quests but they have been well written and interesting. Of course being a pack rat is my ultimate downfall.

    I know it is an old game, 2009 but hey if I never played it before so it is new to me.

    I threw some money at it since I was enjoying it and I want the game to continue and I believe in supporting what you want to succeed and persist especially since I am making an investment of my precious time.
    MadFrenchieblamo2000AlBQuirkyThupli
    image
  • Tatsuya9411Tatsuya9411 Member UncommonPosts: 24
    edited January 11
    Arterius said:
    See I take a different stance.
     I am not jaded or let down by crowdfunding or whatever. I am just done with the same game with a different skin repeat. Over and over again. The mmorpg never evolved. It just rehashed the same mechanics and gameplay over and over again.  I have been there done that for over 20 years with no real change it has just grown stale for me. There are just other hybrid model games that have come along and taken over and pushed the mmorpg aside. 
    Millions of prior mmorpg players have left the genre behind as the genre could not keep up and continue to change. 
    Many things in life are cyclical so perhaps the mmorpg will reinvent itself at some point but I hardly think it will resemble what many of us from the golden age would recognize. 
    What we once knew is gone.  
    This is what made me excited for AoC. It felt like an evolution of the MMO genre. They promised PVE, dungeons, raids, and PVP. Everything I could ever want with new dynamic things that could shake up the MMO genre and now I am scared they will just focus on there BR if it successful. 

    you mean just like how Epic dropped everything when they saw the succes of the BR mode?
  • DMKanoDMKano Member LegendaryPosts: 19,870
    edited January 11
    Studios closing down.
    Major studios struggling financially 
    Mmo devs specifically leaving the industry in droves (most have moved on already)

    And yet OP says... future looks bright?

    Is this one of those "alternate universe" threads where OP is posting from a parallel universe where the twin towers are still standing and CoH never got shut down?
    Post edited by DMKano on
    blueturtle13OG_ZorvanDekahncraftseekerTrolldefender99TheScavengerAlBQuirkypoorbabyMrMelGibson
  • cheyanecheyane Member EpicPosts: 6,043
    DMKano said:
    Studios closing down.
    Major studios struggling financially 
    Mmo devs specifically leaving the industry in droves (most have moved on already)

    And yet OP says... future looks bright?

    Is this one of those "alternate universe" threads where OP is posting from a parallel universe where the twin towers are still standing and CoH never got shot down?
    It still stings the loss of City of Heroes /Villains

    AlBQuirky
    image
  • VesaviusVesavius Member RarePosts: 7,883
    DMKano said:
    Studios closing down.
    Major studios struggling financially 
    Mmo devs specifically leaving the industry in droves (most have moved on already)

    And yet OP says... future looks bright?

    Is this one of those "alternate universe" threads where OP is posting from a parallel universe where the twin towers are still standing and CoH never got shot down?

    yes, I do. Studios have always shut down, that's just part of the churn of the industry.

    I look at the current croop of upcoming games and say, for me, that the future looks bright. Yes.

    Can't live in the past forever DM
    craftseekerThupli
  • ScotScot Member EpicPosts: 10,378
    The indie MMOs are where we may get something different that excites, but wait for the reviews. The genre evolved, gaining some good elements but losing too much on the way.

     25 Agrees

    You received 25 Agrees. You're posting some good content. Great!

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    Now Doesn't That Make You Feel All Warm And Fuzzy Inside? :P

  • VesaviusVesavius Member RarePosts: 7,883
    edited January 11

    remember when people said that Bless Online will totally be awesome and all that jazz?

    Remember when people were hyped for Ark?

    Please excuse my cynism but talking and promises are cheap.


    I remember when games waaaaay before those were hyped and failed to deliver. Failed games as a thing didn't start recently.

    But, along the way, among all the fails, I have had great games to play and a ton of fun in mmorpgs... If I hadn't, I would have left the genre a long time ago, not being a masochist and all.

    The trick is to look at the fun you have had and not just focus on failures, because just seeing the failures kind of twists your perspective until you end up thinking that there is no good in the (gaming) world.
  • VesaviusVesavius Member RarePosts: 7,883
    What this thread has mainly been so far...

    Guy posts to say that Ihe is happy and excited for the future.

    The rest of the forum posts to say, well... We can't have that.
    Thupli
  • DMKanoDMKano Member LegendaryPosts: 19,870
    edited January 11
    Vesavius said:
    What this thread has mainly been so far...

    Guy posts to say that Ihe is happy and excited for the future.

    The rest of the forum posts to say, well... We can't have that.

    Dont look for validation for your happiness in public forums.

    Happiness is a feeling that you create yourself inside of you - enjoy it. 

    By looking for external validation you only let others diminish your own happiness 

    If you seek validation, do so with your close friends that will gladly support your excitement 
    RhygarthcraftseekerTrolldefender99TheScavengerAlBQuirkypoorbaby
  • VesaviusVesavius Member RarePosts: 7,883
    edited January 11
    DMKano said:
    Vesavius said:
    What this thread has mainly been so far...

    Guy posts to say that Ihe is happy and excited for the future.

    The rest of the forum posts to say, well... We can't have that.

    Dont look for validation for your happiness in public forums.



    oh, good lord DM... I am not looking for 'validation'. I don't value the opinion of posters here nearly that much lol.

    I am observing a pattern of behaviour in a playful manner.

    It just struck me as funny. It was meant to be a light hearted comment that I thought people might find a little bit amusing.

    But, yes, throw this reply on the pile.
    TorvalThupli
  • MisterZebubMisterZebub Member EpicPosts: 3,187
    DMKano said:
    Studios closing down.
    Major studios struggling financially 
    Mmo devs specifically leaving the industry in droves (most have moved on already)

    And yet OP says... future looks bright?

    Is this one of those "alternate universe" threads where OP is posting from a parallel universe where the twin towers are still standing and CoH never got shut down?
    I agree it doesn't look bright for the mainstream gaming industry. However for these smaller companies that are building games that don't need hundreds of thousands or millions of players to be financially viable, don't spend millions on advertising alone, and aren't chasing the rainbow with everyone else, and instead are shooting for a niche and sticking there, they might do just fine. And in fact may be better off. Why? Because while the fanbase for these types of games may not be very large, they do tend to be loyal.
    AlBQuirkyThupli


    “I was, in days gone by, a believer. But, alas, I came to this beleaguered land and the God in me just … evaporated. Let us change our toast, then, to the God that has forgotten us.”

  • iixviiiixiixviiiix Member RarePosts: 1,809
    DMKano said:
    Studios closing down.
    Major studios struggling financially 
    Mmo devs specifically leaving the industry in droves (most have moved on already)

    And yet OP says... future looks bright?

    Is this one of those "alternate universe" threads where OP is posting from a parallel universe where the twin towers are still standing and CoH never got shut down?
    If what you said was truth then the future looks bright indeed . For the players .



  • TheocritusTheocritus Member EpicPosts: 6,591
    Everything looks great when little is known about it...Those of us that have been around for years have seen MMOs come and go, many with big promise that didn't deliver. Recently, we look no further than the mess Bless is. It was supposed to be great too.
    AlBQuirky
  • VesaviusVesavius Member RarePosts: 7,883
    edited January 11

    While people keep saying that mainstream gaming is in some type of trouble, I have had a great year playing; God of War, Spider-Man, RDR2, Pillars of Eternity II, Subnautica, Hitman 2, Shadow of the Tomb Raider, and quite a few others.

    Sure there has been drama, there has been bad behaviour, sure some studios have closed (and some have opened, as it ever is), but it's largely passed me by beyond being something to gawk at on YT. In the meantime this often proclaimed end of times hasn't been felt by me at all. Games are, IMO, better than ever when looking at them broadly.

    As an aside, I think YT 'influencers' have tapped into, and feed, a culture of doom and negativity though because doom, failure, and negativity gets drama views. So many YT gaming channels make everything look much worse than it is, because they know people love to watch a car crash. Though it has value, for sure, YT is kind of a bad influence on gaming culture, tbh. It feeds off and feeds into and amplifies the worst behaviours and mindsets, but... that's a topic for another thread.

    But.. I must fit in with the recieved wisdom, I guess... Soo... Doom! Gloom! Doo0o0o0m!

    But, this talk of games outside of mmorpgs is off topic and not the point of this thread at all. So i won't be commenting on it past this much.


  • VesaviusVesavius Member RarePosts: 7,883
    Everything looks great when little is known about it...Those of us that have been around for years have seen MMOs come and go, many with big promise that didn't deliver. Recently, we look no further than the mess Bless is. It was supposed to be great too.

    Dude, I have been on this forum since '04, I have been in mmorpgs since '99, I haven't ever stopped playing the genre. I have done my homework on Pantheon, AoC, and others over the past week. I hardly am a newb or uninformed.

    I am sorry Bless let you down, I am glad I missed that particular car crash, but don't try and paint me as some fresh of the boat newb lol
  • blueturtle13blueturtle13 Member LegendaryPosts: 11,327
    Vesavius said:

    While people keep saying that mainstream gaming is in some type of trouble, I have had a great year playing; God of War, Spider-Man, RDR2, Pillars of Eternity II, Subnautica, Hitman 2, Shadow of the Tomb Raider, and quite a few others.

    Sure there has been drama, there has been bad behaviour, sure some studios have closed (and some have opened, as it ever is), but it's largely passed me by beyond being something to gawk at on YT. In the meantime this often proclaimed end of times hasn't been felt by me at all. Games are, IMO, better than ever when looking at them broadly.

    As an aside, I think YT 'influencers' have tapped into, and feed, a culture of doom and negativity though because doom, failure, and negativity gets drama views. So many YT gaming channels make everything look much worse than it is, because they know people love to watch a car crash. Though it has value, for sure, YT is kind of a bad influence on gaming culture, tbh. It feeds off and feeds into and amplifies the worst behaviours and mindsets, but... that's a topic for another thread.

    But.. I must fit in with the recieved wisdom, I guess... Soo... Doom! Gloom! Doo0o0o0m!

    But, this talk of games outside of mmorpgs is off topic and not the point of this thread at all. So i won't be commenting on it past this much.


    Not sure anyone thinks or said mainstreaming gaming is dead.
    In fact, for me personally, 2018 was one of my favorite gaming years of all time. 

    I think many believe big budget mmorpgs are dead. Not big budget games in general. 
    The mmorpg genre is stale. Not gaming as a whole. 
    I say let the genre wither away until hardly anything is left. Then allow for new talent and new ideas and a new vision to take hold and focus on virtual worlds and not the 'idea' of a mmorpg. 
    The next leap in virtual world technology will have to come from A.I. and interaction.  
    SovrathiixviiiixDMKanoIselinAsm0deusMadFrenchieAlBQuirkyConstantineMerusMrMelGibson

    거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다












  • MisterZebubMisterZebub Member EpicPosts: 3,187
    Everything looks great when little is known about it...Those of us that have been around for years have seen MMOs come and go, many with big promise that didn't deliver. Recently, we look no further than the mess Bless is. It was supposed to be great too.
    Sorry mate but Bless was not supposed to be great. People just stupidly bought into the hype and completely ignored that it was just another assembly line Asian cash grab MMO.


    “I was, in days gone by, a believer. But, alas, I came to this beleaguered land and the God in me just … evaporated. Let us change our toast, then, to the God that has forgotten us.”

  • DMKanoDMKano Member LegendaryPosts: 19,870
    Vesavius said:

    While people keep saying that mainstream gaming is in some type of trouble, I have had a great year playing; God of War, Spider-Man, RDR2, Pillars of Eternity II, Subnautica, Hitman 2, Shadow of the Tomb Raider, and quite a few others.

    Sure there has been drama, there has been bad behaviour, sure some studios have closed (and some have opened, as it ever is), but it's largely passed me by beyond being something to gawk at on YT. In the meantime this often proclaimed end of times hasn't been felt by me at all. Games are, IMO, better than ever when looking at them broadly.

    As an aside, I think YT 'influencers' have tapped into, and feed, a culture of doom and negativity though because doom, failure, and negativity gets drama views. So many YT gaming channels make everything look much worse than it is, because they know people love to watch a car crash. Though it has value, for sure, YT is kind of a bad influence on gaming culture, tbh. It feeds off and feeds into and amplifies the worst behaviours and mindsets, but... that's a topic for another thread.

    But.. I must fit in with the recieved wisdom, I guess... Soo... Doom! Gloom! Doo0o0o0m!

    But, this talk of games outside of mmorpgs is off topic and not the point of this thread at all. So i won't be commenting on it past this much.


    Not sure anyone thinks or said mainstreaming gaming is dead.
    In fact, for me personally, 2018 was one of my favorite gaming years of all time. 

    I think many believe big budget mmorpgs are dead. Not big budget games in general. 
    The mmorpg genre is stale. Not gaming as a whole. 
    I say let the genre wither away until hardly anything is left. Then allow for new talent and new ideas and a new vision to take hold and focus on virtual worlds and not the 'idea' of a mmorpg. 
    The next leap in virtual world technology will have to come from A.I. and interaction.  

    So much this.

    Big budget mmorpgs = done and gone

    Mainstream gaming = doing awesome 
    Trolldefender99TheScavengerpoorbaby
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 12,063
    The next leap in virtual world technology will have to come from A.I. and interaction.  
    For me that was the saddest part of the EQN cancellation. Dave Mark and Sorybricks were trying to do just that in a AAA MMORPG project.

    That lecture was meant, at the time, to be a thought experiment — what would happen if we actually did put decent AI in MMOs? In it, I challenged a lot of tropes that the MMO scene had fallen into: the Holy Trinity (specifically as it applied to ridiculously contrived aggro systems), static, unchanging (and unchangeable) worlds, simplistic “big bag of hit points” enemies that operated more like a mechanical wind-up toy than an intelligent being, etc. My point was that we could do better in many facets

    That's a quote from Dave summarizing his 2009 GDC lecture on MMO AI.

    http://intrinsicalgorithm.com/IAonAI/2016/03/on-everquest-next-and-ai-driven-mmos/

    MadFrenchieAlBQuirkyMrMelGibson
    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED
  • VesaviusVesavius Member RarePosts: 7,883
    edited January 11
    TBH gu


    I think many believe big budget mmorpgs are dead. Not big budget games in general. 
    The mmorpg genre is stale. Not gaming as a whole. 
    I say let the genre wither away until hardly anything is left. Then allow for new talent and new ideas and a new vision to take hold and focus on virtual worlds and not the 'idea' of a mmorpg. 
    The next leap in virtual world technology will have to come from A.I. and interaction.  

    Sure, but it was DMkano bringing gaming in general into the conversation that I was replying to.

    I am actually 100% behind the return to grass roots development, much of the kind we are seeing with Pantheon and others. I have been saying this for 5 years plus. The AAA mmorpg has been a cancer that has almost killed the genre.

    I agree a huge leap in mmorpgs won't be seen until new tech becomes mainstream and an every household thing, but in the meantime the games coming up look fun to play to me and I am excited for the near future.

    That's all I am saying. Revolutionary thought around these parts, I know.
    Thupli
  • LonzoLonzo Member UncommonPosts: 273
    Actually it is bad times right now for mmorpgs. All our hopes were on some games like Crowfall, Pantheon, CU to name some of them. All of these games wont come out or are absolutely dated when they come out, because the development of these games take too long. It seems that they just take the money from crowdfunding to fund their jobs and try to make it last as long as they can. Crowdfunding was a big mistake in gaming industry. 

    image
  • VesaviusVesavius Member RarePosts: 7,883
    edited January 16
    Lonzo said:
    Actually it is bad times right now for mmorpgs. All our hopes were on some games like Crowfall, Pantheon, CU to name some of them. All of these games wont come out or are absolutely dated when they come out, because the development of these games take too long. It seems that they just take the money from crowdfunding to fund their jobs and try to make it last as long as they can. Crowdfunding was a big mistake in gaming industry. 

    No offense, but this is probably the weakest post of the thread yet. CU and Pantheon, for example, show no signs of being 'outdated'. Part of their charm is that they are side stepping mainstream trends and this places them outside of being 'dated' or not.

    In all honesty, you just seem annoyed that they weren't created in a couple of years, when their dev cycles have been perfectly normal.

    The truth is that crowdfunding is only a mistake because it involves entitle impatient backers from an early stage, and this means being visible for far longer than they used to be, feeding that impatience. The other truth is that crowdfunding, while ofc has gone wrong, has also gone very very right in the gaming industry. Crowdfunding has delivered some amazing games that the AAA devs would never have touched. While I am critical of each project on it's own merits, I am actually quite an avid crowdfunding advocate for the power it gives grass roots passion led devs. It's too easy to constantly look at the negatives in everything and just moan.


    AlBQuirky
  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 20,374
    Lonzo said:
    Actually it is bad times right now for mmorpgs. All our hopes were on some games like Crowfall, Pantheon, CU to name some of them. All of these games wont come out or are absolutely dated when they come out, because the development of these games take too long. It seems that they just take the money from crowdfunding to fund their jobs and try to make it last as long as they can. Crowdfunding was a big mistake in gaming industry. 
    If they wouldn't feel dated if they launched today, but do feel dated by the time they actually launch, it will be because of those other games that launch in the meantime.  And in that case, those other games might be very interesting.
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