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Some PvE Players Are A Cult

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Comments

  • WargfootYVWargfootYV Member UncommonPosts: 109
    Bloodaxes said:
    Not to side with @Kyleran or anything, but I also was suspicious with your inclinations from the very few replies on top of your absurd accusations in the OP.

    For someone who says he's a "PVE player" you're trying way too hard to enforce your view on PVE players being the "bad guys" on others.

    Just my 2 cents.

    IF YOU SIDE WITH KYLERAN THEN YOU MUST DIE!

    That aside...

    I think the word "some" in the title is key.
    If you don't like PvE and you play PvE games you're awesome.

    Where it gets weird is when a PvE player buys a PvP game, log into a PvP server, enter a PvP zone, find the hotspot in the PvP zone and then complain when PvP happens - and insist the developers are stupid, the PKs are bad people, and civil rights are being violated.

    Normal, healthy people have that happened and think "OMG, I got into the wrong game for me".

    The cultists think "OMG, I HAVE TO CHANGE THIS GAME AND SHOW ALL THESE PEOPLE THE LIGHT".  Because for some reason, for the cultist, PvP happening anywhere is fundamentally immoral and they should be able to enter any zone in any game anywhere at anytime and be free from it.

    Most PvE players aren't like that.
    Most PvE players aren't cultists.
    Most PvE players read the box and think "no way in hell, I hate that crap".

    I just get tired of reading endless tears on the forums by the cultists that failed to read the box.  I long for a developer to just say, "You don't get it. Please leave."
    Trolldefender99
  • rojoArcueidrojoArcueid Member EpicPosts: 9,496
    edited January 10

    There is no cult.
    Denial of this sort is the hallmark of a cult.
    So, do you guys use goat blood or do you find the rabbit's easier to clean up?
    You must be smoking something. I even agreed with you about keeping people where they want to be (PvPers on PvP servers and PvEers on PvE servers), and you come up with this meaningless crap.

    Just move on, man.

    EDIT: and virgin's blood is tastier.
    Post edited by rojoArcueid on
    SandmanjwKyleranGobstopper3D




  • WargfootYVWargfootYV Member UncommonPosts: 109
    Sovrath said:

    Well, in fairness, when lord of the rings online was being developed, there was a huge thread about how the game needed pvp and now it was made for pvp. I can't remember if people were getting insulting but there were very heated debates among those who wanted pvp and then wanted it to be world pvp.

    Oh... good catch.

    This reminds me of my own mental gymnastics - because really, this thread is very much about myself (as any thread worth reading on this forum would be).

    You see, back in 1999 I complained endlessly about PKs in UO.  I had a list of arguments as long as my arm about how they were all sick children and that they were ruining the game and that there was so much they didn't understand about gaming.

    I didn't read the box.

    And then, oddly enough, I totally reversed this position in LOTRO.  I bought the game for PvE but found the Ettenmoors (PVP Zone) to be much more fun.  (Hence the name: Wargfoot).  I complained on the forums endlessly about how poor the PvP was in that game and acted as if the PvE crowd was ruining the game - again, the 'they' were the problem.

    I didn't read the box.

    It is very freeing to get to the point were you ignore the lore, marketing, and hype and decide: "Hey, here is what I want in a game" and then go find THAT.  If you cannot find what you want then decide to what extent you can compromise.  If you do that then you can avoid a poop ton of drama on the forums - and you can leave the cultist nonsense behind.
    Trolldefender99
  • WargfootYVWargfootYV Member UncommonPosts: 109

    Just move on, man.
    I read that as "Just move in, man" - which gave me chills.
    Let's say you won this debate and avoid each other from now on.

    Peace out.
    Trolldefender99
  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 25,540
     I long for a developer to just say, "You don't get it. Please leave."
    Well, some do. But then some change their minds.

    Worlds Adrift initially stated that they wouldn't have pve worlds but have since changed their minds.


    Kyleran



  • WargfootYVWargfootYV Member UncommonPosts: 109
    Sovrath said:
     I long for a developer to just say, "You don't get it. Please leave."
    Well, some do. But then some change their minds.

    Worlds Adrift initially stated that they wouldn't have pve worlds but have since changed their minds.


    The cult got to 'em.

    I view asking for a separate world to be a reasonable request.
    Changing the game for everyone is unreasonable.
    Trolldefender99
  • BloodaxesBloodaxes Member RarePosts: 3,868
    Sovrath said:
     I long for a developer to just say, "You don't get it. Please leave."
    Well, some do. But then some change their minds.

    Worlds Adrift initially stated that they wouldn't have pve worlds but have since changed their minds.

    Only reason I have over 1k hours in Conan Exiles was due to being able to build to my heart's desires and exploring at my own pace without being hindered by some pesky players who enjoy ruining other's fun. I still played on a server that also had pvp, but only limited to a few hours and no building damage. I'll pvp when I want, not when some random guy decides.

    They should have considered them from the very beginning.
    rojoArcueidKyleran

  • BloodaxesBloodaxes Member RarePosts: 3,868
    Bloodaxes said:
    Not to side with @Kyleran or anything, but I also was suspicious with your inclinations from the very few replies on top of your absurd accusations in the OP.

    For someone who says he's a "PVE player" you're trying way too hard to enforce your view on PVE players being the "bad guys" on others.

    Just my 2 cents.

    IF YOU SIDE WITH KYLERAN THEN YOU MUST DIE!

    That aside...

    I think the word "some" in the title is key.
    If you don't like PvE and you play PvE games you're awesome.

    Where it gets weird is when a PvE player buys a PvP game, log into a PvP server, enter a PvP zone, find the hotspot in the PvP zone and then complain when PvP happens - and insist the developers are stupid, the PKs are bad people, and civil rights are being violated.

    Normal, healthy people have that happened and think "OMG, I got into the wrong game for me".

    The cultists think "OMG, I HAVE TO CHANGE THIS GAME AND SHOW ALL THESE PEOPLE THE LIGHT".  Because for some reason, for the cultist, PvP happening anywhere is fundamentally immoral and they should be able to enter any zone in any game anywhere at anytime and be free from it.

    Most PvE players aren't like that.
    Most PvE players aren't cultists.
    Most PvE players read the box and think "no way in hell, I hate that crap".

    I just get tired of reading endless tears on the forums by the cultists that failed to read the box.  I long for a developer to just say, "You don't get it. Please leave."
    Which again brings me to my previous notion; How do you know they're pve players? Many pvp players also want pve elements in their games.

  • WoeToTheVanquishedWoeToTheVanquished Member UncommonPosts: 216
    the quality of pvp is circumstantial to the implementation. I can understand why a majority of players dislike pvp, but I doubt they view it from the perspective that I view it -- and I personally enjoy switching between e/p. 

    when pvp is enabled in areas where the best loot drops or bosses spawn, this creates a reason for immeasurable gangbanging. this has always been the case -- and it would harm the quality of the game simply due to the community making these areas off limits to the ungeared or smaller groups. this makes the player feel as though they're being violated or imprisoned -- it's pretty bad. also circumstantial to the implementation of escape mechanics, pvp flagging, overall combat system -- which most games have some sort of CC or burst damage -- and this should clarify why it becomes strenuous on a player just trying to flourish in the virtual world: if a player can harass you with pvp, they will most certainly do this.

    so some games completely demolish the value of pvp because the developer has no clue how to fix it, balance it, make it feel right. most likely this is due to the nature of latency, hardware in previous times -- currently -- the future, 3d gaming and twitch combat being lackluster due to latency differentiation. not to mention the drop in fps during large-scale combat (and continued differentiation of player rigs). pvp most likely will never be fair in any of our lifetimes because it's too complex. giving pvp a value makes people abuse it, but not having pvp lowers the longevity of the game.

    so yes, I understand why some people shun pvp completely. it's circumstantial to the game, although it's completely on the developer to properly code and balance these things. 
    KyleranlaseritGobstopper3D
  • FlyByKnightFlyByKnight Member EpicPosts: 3,218
    I wish people who join OWPVP games and do the obnoxious passive-aggressive carebear thing saw how ridiculous they are being.

    It's not one of those behaviors that is easily counter pointed or has an equal opposite.


    WargfootYVKyleran
    Raging Demons for all flowchart "Kens". This is a metaphor.
  • WargfootYVWargfootYV Member UncommonPosts: 109
    Bloodaxes said:

    Which again brings me to my previous notion; How do you know they're pve players? Many pvp players also want pve elements in their games.
    So a PvP player buys a PvP game, enters a PvP server, enters a PvP zone, enters a PvP hotspot and complains that he gets PvP?

    I don't care what the persons preferences are, if you complain about getting PvP there you're still making a mistake.
    Trolldefender99
  • PhryPhry Member EpicPosts: 10,212
    Kind of disappointed that they started a cult and didn't invite me  :'(
    SovrathWargfootYVblueturtle13Kyleran
  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 25,540
    Bloodaxes said:

    Which again brings me to my previous notion; How do you know they're pve players? Many pvp players also want pve elements in their games.
    So a PvP player buys a PvP game, enters a PvP server, enters a PvP zone, enters a PvP hotspot and complains that he gets PvP?

    I don't care what the persons preferences are, if you complain about getting PvP there you're still making a mistake.
    I will agree that people should "read the box" and know what they are getting into. I've said that numerous times before.

    I just think that, again, bad players are bad players.
    AlBQuirky



  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 7,393

    you just confirmed my comment. Sour PvPers came up with the term.
    ..after PvE players petitioned to change the fundamental nature of a game that they (PvP types) were enjoying.

    And no, I didn't confirm your comment.
    You said that PvP players harassing people on PvE game forums happens all of the time.

    You moved the goalposts there, buddy.
    Nope, because if it were purely a PvP game, progression would be limited to PvP activities.

    The bench doesn't make football non-contact because the bench isn't part of the sport.  It's just a seat for folks not currently in the game.
    AlBQuirky

    image
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 7,393
    edited January 10
    Bloodaxes said:
    Not to side with @Kyleran or anything, but I also was suspicious with your inclinations from the very few replies on top of your absurd accusations in the OP.

    For someone who says he's a "PVE player" you're trying way too hard to enforce your view on PVE players being the "bad guys" on others.

    Just my 2 cents.

    IF YOU SIDE WITH KYLERAN THEN YOU MUST DIE!

    That aside...

    I think the word "some" in the title is key.
    If you don't like PvE and you play PvE games you're awesome.

    Where it gets weird is when a PvE player buys a PvP game, log into a PvP server, enter a PvP zone, find the hotspot in the PvP zone and then complain when PvP happens - and insist the developers are stupid, the PKs are bad people, and civil rights are being violated.

    Normal, healthy people have that happened and think "OMG, I got into the wrong game for me".

    The cultists think "OMG, I HAVE TO CHANGE THIS GAME AND SHOW ALL THESE PEOPLE THE LIGHT".  Because for some reason, for the cultist, PvP happening anywhere is fundamentally immoral and they should be able to enter any zone in any game anywhere at anytime and be free from it.

    Most PvE players aren't like that.
    Most PvE players aren't cultists.
    Most PvE players read the box and think "no way in hell, I hate that crap".

    I just get tired of reading endless tears on the forums by the cultists that failed to read the box.  I long for a developer to just say, "You don't get it. Please leave."
    You're starting to become more and more trollish.  You point out some, but then can't comprehend that "some" applies to all tastes, and PvE has no special place there.

    EDIT- for a poignant example of how this isn't unique to any particular gamer group, we have a forum regular here who insists PvE is useless and dead and all games moving forward should he exclusively focused on PvP.
    Post edited by MadFrenchie on

    image
  • WargfootYVWargfootYV Member UncommonPosts: 109

    You're starting to become more and more trollish.  You point out some, but then can't comprehend that "some" applies to all tastes, and PvE has no special place there.

    EDIT- for a poignant example of how this isn't unique to any particular gamer group, we have a forum regular here who insists PvE is useless and dead and all games moving forward should he exclusively focused on PvP.
    I think the thread title limits it to PvE but doing so doesn't excuse poor behavior on the part of the PvP crowd.  The PvE crowd (the sick ones, not the healthy PvE types) just seem particularly controlling and demanding.
    MadFrenchie
  • WargfootYVWargfootYV Member UncommonPosts: 109

    EDIT- for a poignant example of how this isn't unique to any particular gamer group, we have a forum regular here who insists PvE is useless and dead and all games moving forward should he exclusively focused on PvP.
    To me that seems to be merely expressing an opinion (ignorant, but just an opinion) which is altogether different than judging other people as psychopathic because they PvP in a PvP game and then demanding everything be changed to accommodate your taste because anything less would be immoral.

  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 31,496
    Sovrath said:
    While I agree with your position that a person should buy games they want and not games that have features they don't want, I think there are as many pvp players who can also be "cultish" or even a bit psychopathic.

    In short, there are bad people in all walks of life.
    True.
    However, I'm not aware of this happening:

    1: Buys a PvE only game.
    2: Enters a PvE only server.
    3: Enters a PvE only zone.
    4: Find as PvE hotspot.
    5: Has an unskilled PvE character.
    6: Logs onto the forums and complains when PvP doesn't happen - tries to get the rules rewritten to support PvP - refers to the PvE crowd as "crazy".

    Probably does happen though - I've just not seen it.
    It happens all the time. Who do you think brought the carebear moniker from a cartoon into mmos? Sour PvPers. :wink:
    The term 'carebear' arose in UO (or earlier) when players who wanted only PvE complained endlessly about getting ganked.  The PKs called the whiners 'carebears'.  This was before PvE MMORPGs were available.

    Show me a single PvE game forum where there are hoards of PvP players complaining about the lack of PvP…. calling the developers unfair and stupid.  I'm not talking about politely requesting it.  I'm talking about the drama - the OMG THIS GAME IS GONNA FAIL YOU ALL SUCK DIE IN A FIRE hysteria that the PvE crowd pulls on nearly every PvP game forum.

    Just one.
    First I will have to figure out if their actually are any MMORPGs out there still open which are purely PVE and aren't over 10 years old.

    Hmm, FFXI maybe...Ryzom, Horizons?

    I dunno, not coming up with much atm, can you point me to any?


    "I should run a marathon backwards. So I could see what second place look like" Royce da 5'9"

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing FO76 ATM.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 31,496
    WargfootYV said:vestihal

    There is no cult.
    Denial of this sort is the hallmark of a cult.
    So, do you guys use goat blood or do you find the rabbit's easier to clean up?
    Vestal virgin of course, don't you know anything?


    Phry

    "I should run a marathon backwards. So I could see what second place look like" Royce da 5'9"

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing FO76 ATM.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 31,496
    I agree completely with the OP. Developers will say their focus is PvP and then players will complain about how they hate PvP and the game won't succeed because the of the PvP focus. Its their game, and they know players want pvp. There is plenty of PvE games out there, go play those and quit trying to ruin PvP games that many people have been waiting for.
    Previously asked question, please name a few of the PVE centric MMORPGs released in the past 10 years, as a bonus especially the more open world, sandbox style ones.

    Go ahead,  I'll wait.

    :D
    BloodaxesTorvalAlBQuirky

    "I should run a marathon backwards. So I could see what second place look like" Royce da 5'9"

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing FO76 ATM.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • VinterkrigVinterkrig Member UncommonPosts: 1,759
    Kyleran said:
    I agree completely with the OP. Developers will say their focus is PvP and then players will complain about how they hate PvP and the game won't succeed because the of the PvP focus. Its their game, and they know players want pvp. There is plenty of PvE games out there, go play those and quit trying to ruin PvP games that many people have been waiting for.
    Previously asked question, please name a few of the PVE centric MMORPGs released in the past 10 years, as a bonus especially the more open world, sandbox style ones.

    Go ahead,  I'll wait.

    :D
     
    Most MMORPGS that have PVP, have implemented it as an afterthought and you know it. I remember when ESO looked like it was gonna be the "one" that had everything done right, remember the trailer, we were going to battle for the center keep, massive fighting for control, and it was blocked off for what, almost 2 years before they made something of that spot, it cost money, wasn't really pvp focused and had no real impact on anything... ghost town these days, and that's about all they've done with PVP outside of lower cap #s and adding a battleground, ESO is a PVE centric MMO.

    Really the same could be said about Guild Wars 2.

    Final Fantasy is PVE centric, and so are all the Eastern mmos, though they do have PVP, they are all endless PVE time sinks.
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 31,496
    I wish people who join OWPVP games and do the obnoxious passive-aggressive carebear thing saw how ridiculous they are being.

    It's not one of those behaviors that is easily counter pointed or has an equal opposite.


    I'm appreciating the irony of your post, well played sir.


    "I should run a marathon backwards. So I could see what second place look like" Royce da 5'9"

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing FO76 ATM.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 31,496
    Sovrath said:
    Bloodaxes said:

    Which again brings me to my previous notion; How do you know they're pve players? Many pvp players also want pve elements in their games.
    So a PvP player buys a PvP game, enters a PvP server, enters a PvP zone, enters a PvP hotspot and complains that he gets PvP?

    I don't care what the persons preferences are, if you complain about getting PvP there you're still making a mistake.
    I will agree that people should "read the box" and know what they are getting into. I've said that numerous times before.

    I just think that, again, bad players are bad players.
    Yes we are.....oh, you weren't talking about players with bad PVP skills were you?

    Never mind. 
    AlBQuirky

    "I should run a marathon backwards. So I could see what second place look like" Royce da 5'9"

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing FO76 ATM.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • BloodaxesBloodaxes Member RarePosts: 3,868
    Kyleran said:
    I agree completely with the OP. Developers will say their focus is PvP and then players will complain about how they hate PvP and the game won't succeed because the of the PvP focus. Its their game, and they know players want pvp. There is plenty of PvE games out there, go play those and quit trying to ruin PvP games that many people have been waiting for.
    Previously asked question, please name a few of the PVE centric MMORPGs released in the past 10 years, as a bonus especially the more open world, sandbox style ones.

    Go ahead,  I'll wait.

    :D
     
    Most MMORPGS that have PVP, have implemented it as an afterthought and you know it. I remember when ESO looked like it was gonna be the "one" that had everything done right, remember the trailer, we were going to battle for the center keep, massive fighting for control, and it was blocked off for what, almost 2 years before they made something of that spot, it cost money, wasn't really pvp focused and had no real impact on anything... ghost town these days, and that's about all they've done with PVP outside of lower cap #s and adding a battleground, ESO is a PVE centric MMO.

    Really the same could be said about Guild Wars 2.

    Final Fantasy is PVE centric, and so are all the Eastern mmos, though they do have PVP, they are all endless PVE time sinks.
    Being the PVP an afterthought, bad or whatever, still doesn't make the game a PVE centric game. If players are able to attack other players even if they don't want to engage in those scenarios, it's NOT a pve game.

    Guild Wars 2, FFXIV and ESO (This one I could be mistaken, as I believe there was an expansion before that had some pvp in it) are few of the recent mmos that let you PVE all the way without having to jump hoops or become solid snake to avoid pvp.
    TorvalVinterkrigAlBQuirky

  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 31,496

    You're starting to become more and more trollish.  You point out some, but then can't comprehend that "some" applies to all tastes, and PvE has no special place there.

    EDIT- for a poignant example of how this isn't unique to any particular gamer group, we have a forum regular here who insists PvE is useless and dead and all games moving forward should he exclusively focused on PvP.
    I think the thread title limits it to PvE but doing so doesn't excuse poor behavior on the part of the PvP crowd.  The PvE crowd (the sick ones, not the healthy PvE types) just seem particularly controlling and demanding.
    Forget gaming forums, until you've been a member of a WOW 40 man (or other high tier) PVE raiding guild you haven't even begun to see truly bad and cult like behaviors.

    Never was there a more demanding and controlling group of gamers, totally burned me out from raiding forever.

    ;)

    PhryAlBQuirky

    "I should run a marathon backwards. So I could see what second place look like" Royce da 5'9"

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing FO76 ATM.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






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