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  • delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 5,220
    Sovrath said:
    The original post and the posts that follow have no cohesive purpose. It is just a collection of nonsensical ramblings.
    Well, then, welcome to the club. B)
    I'm the founder  :o
    SovrathConstantineMerusTorval
  • Hawkaya399Hawkaya399 Member UncommonPosts: 321
    edited January 11
    It really does boil down to them having to please the largest audience. This means compromises are made. If you're extreme or marginal in some areas, you won't be satisfied. This is why niche or indie games exist. Older games sometimes are niche but mostly by mistake. This is because they weren't made to be niche, but  the gaming population in those days was smaller. The niche population is smaller, so what happened is it meets old games accidentally sometimes.

    I will add some old games were intentionally niche, like simulation games. Back then you had to pour through the manual to have any chance in the game. I played many simulation games in HS and in my college years. Sometimes I miss that. It's nice to  have a manual in front of you while playing. Digital manuals aren't the same, unless they're on a separate mobile, maybe. It's not convenient for me having to alt-tab to the manual and back to the game. And it's nice to take manuals with me.

    The manuals back then were beautiful. Seems to me like nowadays everything is digital or in tutorials, and it's just... not... the... same.

    I'm playing Neverwinter atm. Waiting to see when it gets hard. The trouble is, I don't expect it to get much harder until I'm in the higher levels. Seems like they're all made to be easy at first and tha'ts exactly what I don't want. Difficulties breed immersion. Story doesn't do it for me. Graphics don't. Danger does. Like I remember when I first started playing Wurm Online. Monster lurked everywhere to kill you. And you didn't know where to go. You had to hunt for things and always be looking over your shoulder. And if you died? You had to remember where your corpse was. It wasn't easy, at least for me. I fall asleep when I don't need to pay attention. I lose interest. These MMO's that tell me where to go and don't have any consequences, leave me feeling bored. It was like that in DDO until I figured out how to play dungeons in elite. But even that got boring when players would just rush it like a marathon and never smell the roses. There was never any time to talk or examine things. You had to constantly be following so as not to fall behind. Frankly, I had more fun trying to solo those because it was more thoughtful, or,  if i was lucky, to find others who hadn't done it before or were still learning how. My best memories from DDO were in smaller inexperienced groups. We were learning hte ropes. It was FUN.
    Post edited by Hawkaya399 on
    Sovrath
  • ScotScot Member EpicPosts: 9,876
    Sovrath said:
    The original post and the posts that follow have no cohesive purpose. It is just a collection of nonsensical ramblings.
    Well, then, welcome to the club. B)
    I'm the founder  :o
    Yes, but you have to make sure you don't say these threads must be a certain way or the accusations of only wanting threads made your way will start, after all we have to go with what most posters want. :D

     25 Agrees

    You received 25 Agrees. You're posting some good content. Great!

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    Now Doesn't That Make You Feel All Warm And Fuzzy Inside? :P

  • TillerTiller Member EpicPosts: 7,212
    edited January 12
    Seriously this should be @delete5230 avatar



    Post edited by Tiller on
    delete5230parrotpholkTorval


  • blamo2000blamo2000 Member UncommonPosts: 613
    Great post OP.  I completely agree.  I think its insane people will fly off the hooks if a game's animations is a little off, but everyone does cartwheels when combat is literally designed to be easy for seven year old children.  Its a mad world. 
    delete5230
  • VengeSunsoarVengeSunsoar Member RarePosts: 6,475
    edited January 12
    In older games i generally had to move to a harder area sometimes in the same zone sometimes in a different zone in order to fight harder NPCs.

    In modern games if I want to fight harder NPCs I...have to move to a new area. 

    Yes the zone that is made for my level is easier than an old but the above principle still applies.
    Post edited by VengeSunsoar on
    delete5230
    Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
  • UngoodUngood Member EpicPosts: 1,775
    My question:  
    Since all mmorpg's are JUST above motor skill function.  And adults are playing them.  Obviously easy.  Are you enjoying this third generation of "combat not being the object" of the game ?    

    Notice I'm not trying to belittle anyone by saying you can't handle combat made for 7 years old.  YOU KNOW I'm not saying that.... Just asking if you prefer this way.
    ya know.. most 4 - 7 year olds can play baseball as well.. and yet I am going to bet even as an adult, with such simple motions as "throw a ball" "swing a bat" and "catch a ball" and "run in a straight line" you are not really that good at it, and going to bet you are not able to do it really competitively.. and yet 4 to 7 year olds can play it, even play it competitively. 

    ya know.. lifting weights, I have seen toddlers do that stuff, pick up an object and put it down and do that a few more times. Gottna bet you are not anywhere near a competitive weight lifter, even if the motions to do the task are so simple even a toddler can do them.

    See, the simplicity of the motion, holds less meaning when it's done competitively.
    VengeSunsoarJean-Luc_Picard
    There is no Truth, only the Illusions we wish to Cling to. Knowing this, why do we all cling to such shitty illusions?
    Currently Playing Eternal Crusade, because killing people with a Chainsword is more fun then a sniper rifle.
  • ScotScot Member EpicPosts: 9,876
    Ungood said:
    My question:  
    Since all mmorpg's are JUST above motor skill function.  And adults are playing them.  Obviously easy.  Are you enjoying this third generation of "combat not being the object" of the game ?    

    Notice I'm not trying to belittle anyone by saying you can't handle combat made for 7 years old.  YOU KNOW I'm not saying that.... Just asking if you prefer this way.
    ya know.. most 4 - 7 year olds can play baseball as well.. and yet I am going to bet even as an adult, with such simple motions as "throw a ball" "swing a bat" and "catch a ball" and "run in a straight line" you are not really that good at it, and going to bet you are not able to do it really competitively.. and yet 4 to 7 year olds can play it, even play it competitively. 

    ya know.. lifting weights, I have seen toddlers do that stuff, pick up an object and put it down and do that a few more times. Gottna bet you are not anywhere near a competitive weight lifter, even if the motions to do the task are so simple even a toddler can do them.

    See, the simplicity of the motion, holds less meaning when it's done competitively.
    We have to be carful or those amazing children will take over the world. :)

     25 Agrees

    You received 25 Agrees. You're posting some good content. Great!

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    Now Doesn't That Make You Feel All Warm And Fuzzy Inside? :P

  • delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 5,220
    Ungood said:
    My question:  
    Since all mmorpg's are JUST above motor skill function.  And adults are playing them.  Obviously easy.  Are you enjoying this third generation of "combat not being the object" of the game ?    

    Notice I'm not trying to belittle anyone by saying you can't handle combat made for 7 years old.  YOU KNOW I'm not saying that.... Just asking if you prefer this way.
    ya know.. most 4 - 7 year olds can play baseball as well.. and yet I am going to bet even as an adult, with such simple motions as "throw a ball" "swing a bat" and "catch a ball" and "run in a straight line" you are not really that good at it, and going to bet you are not able to do it really competitively.. and yet 4 to 7 year olds can play it, even play it competitively. 

    ya know.. lifting weights, I have seen toddlers do that stuff, pick up an object and put it down and do that a few more times. Gottna bet you are not anywhere near a competitive weight lifter, even if the motions to do the task are so simple even a toddler can do them.

    See, the simplicity of the motion, holds less meaning when it's done competitively.
    And right you are,
    I teach children Martial Arts (I have, we only accept adults now)
    1) They must be 5 years old
    2) all can do a full split, without even thinking
    3) unlike adults, you can string ten movements together

    I asked the head instructor "how can this be ? ".  Kids minds are not full of crap, they soak information easily.


    mmorpg's are made for exactly them
  • Jean-Luc_PicardJean-Luc_Picard Member LegendaryPosts: 7,756
    edited January 12
    Since MMORPGs are supposedly so easy even a 5 years old can play them without dying, I suggest the OP proves it to us with the following challenge.

    - Roll a character in WoW, since it's a game he supposedly knows quite well.
    - Get to max level. Of course, using a boost is forbidden.
    - Post a screenshot showing the character's level and the statistic panel showing 0 deaths. Also include the panel with the kills and the one with quests completed, so we can see you didn't use any boost. We may ask more proof if in doubt (other panels).

    Note that I'm not holding my breath.

    Good luck.
    Post edited by Jean-Luc_Picard on
    "The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn in Star Wars.
    After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that nor does the ability to write.
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  • delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 5,220
    Since MMORPGs are supposedly so easy even a 5 years old can play them without dying, I suggest the OP proves it to us with the following challenge.

    - Roll a character in WoW, since it's a game he supposedly knows quite well.
    - Get to max level. Of course, using a boost is forbidden.
    - Post a screenshot showing the character's level and the statistic panel showing 0 deaths. Also include the panel with the kills and the one with quests completed, so we can see you didn't use any boost. We may ask more proof if in doubt (other panels).

    Note that I'm not holding my breath.

    Good luck.
    Ok,
    But first can I buy the "Elixir of Rapid Mind" in the cash shop for $19.99 ?

    That should make it A LOT easer.  Than God for cash shops :) 

     

  • UngoodUngood Member EpicPosts: 1,775
    Ungood said:
    My question:  
    Since all mmorpg's are JUST above motor skill function.  And adults are playing them.  Obviously easy.  Are you enjoying this third generation of "combat not being the object" of the game ?    

    Notice I'm not trying to belittle anyone by saying you can't handle combat made for 7 years old.  YOU KNOW I'm not saying that.... Just asking if you prefer this way.
    ya know.. most 4 - 7 year olds can play baseball as well.. and yet I am going to bet even as an adult, with such simple motions as "throw a ball" "swing a bat" and "catch a ball" and "run in a straight line" you are not really that good at it, and going to bet you are not able to do it really competitively.. and yet 4 to 7 year olds can play it, even play it competitively. 

    ya know.. lifting weights, I have seen toddlers do that stuff, pick up an object and put it down and do that a few more times. Gottna bet you are not anywhere near a competitive weight lifter, even if the motions to do the task are so simple even a toddler can do them.

    See, the simplicity of the motion, holds less meaning when it's done competitively.
    And right you are,
    I teach children Martial Arts (I have, we only accept adults now)
    1) They must be 5 years old
    2) all can do a full split, without even thinking
    3) unlike adults, you can string ten movements together

    I asked the head instructor "how can this be ? ".  Kids minds are not full of crap, they soak information easily.


    mmorpg's are made for exactly them
    If your point of this was to explain that children have better manual dexterity, memory muscle, and the ability to learn things faster than adults.. then I suppose I should never feel bad about playing games designed for that demographic.
    immodiumJean-Luc_Picard
    There is no Truth, only the Illusions we wish to Cling to. Knowing this, why do we all cling to such shitty illusions?
    Currently Playing Eternal Crusade, because killing people with a Chainsword is more fun then a sniper rifle.
  • UngoodUngood Member EpicPosts: 1,775
    Scot said:
    Ungood said:
    My question:  
    Since all mmorpg's are JUST above motor skill function.  And adults are playing them.  Obviously easy.  Are you enjoying this third generation of "combat not being the object" of the game ?    

    Notice I'm not trying to belittle anyone by saying you can't handle combat made for 7 years old.  YOU KNOW I'm not saying that.... Just asking if you prefer this way.
    ya know.. most 4 - 7 year olds can play baseball as well.. and yet I am going to bet even as an adult, with such simple motions as "throw a ball" "swing a bat" and "catch a ball" and "run in a straight line" you are not really that good at it, and going to bet you are not able to do it really competitively.. and yet 4 to 7 year olds can play it, even play it competitively. 

    ya know.. lifting weights, I have seen toddlers do that stuff, pick up an object and put it down and do that a few more times. Gottna bet you are not anywhere near a competitive weight lifter, even if the motions to do the task are so simple even a toddler can do them.

    See, the simplicity of the motion, holds less meaning when it's done competitively.
    We have to be carful or those amazing children will take over the world. :)
    They gonna take over the world...



    They have the rage technique mastered.. as well.


    Scot
    There is no Truth, only the Illusions we wish to Cling to. Knowing this, why do we all cling to such shitty illusions?
    Currently Playing Eternal Crusade, because killing people with a Chainsword is more fun then a sniper rifle.
  • btdtbtdt Member RarePosts: 418
    btdt said:

    BUT, and I'll stress this people on average don't carry guns.  
    Hehe, just goes to prove how out of touch you really are.

    My sister-in-law carries a taser and a gun.  She's not a gun rights advocate, in fact she is a God fearing woman.  You'd never suspect in a thousand years that she has them.

    Then you have my co-worker who thinks an AK-47 is a target rifle.  Another non-gun rights advocate.  Sweetest guy you'd ever meet.  He just likes automatic weapons in the same way someone likes fast cars.

    These are average people from everyday life.  I don't know how many people own guns, but I certainly would never assume someone with a gun is a nut case waiting to happen. 


    A noveist with a gun is dangerous. 

    <A quite from Law and Order>
    Most people get their gun taken away from them !

    Sounds like the sister-in-law and the co-worker may fall into this category.

    Having the guts to do whats necessary, gun or no gun is few and far between this day and age.
    There you go making assumptions again. 

    Remember, the word starts with ass for a reason.
  • delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 5,220
    btdt said:
    btdt said:

    BUT, and I'll stress this people on average don't carry guns.  
    Hehe, just goes to prove how out of touch you really are.

    My sister-in-law carries a taser and a gun.  She's not a gun rights advocate, in fact she is a God fearing woman.  You'd never suspect in a thousand years that she has them.

    Then you have my co-worker who thinks an AK-47 is a target rifle.  Another non-gun rights advocate.  Sweetest guy you'd ever meet.  He just likes automatic weapons in the same way someone likes fast cars.

    These are average people from everyday life.  I don't know how many people own guns, but I certainly would never assume someone with a gun is a nut case waiting to happen. 


    A noveist with a gun is dangerous. 

    <A quite from Law and Order>
    Most people get their gun taken away from them !

    Sounds like the sister-in-law and the co-worker may fall into this category.

    Having the guts to do whats necessary, gun or no gun is few and far between this day and age.
    There you go making assumptions again. 

    Remember, the word starts with ass for a reason.
    Sweetest guy and guns don't mix   :*
  • goboygogoboygo Member RarePosts: 1,803
    edited January 12
    Xasapis said:
    I thought they change it to facilitate transition to controller based combat. The only mmorpg that still maintains a big amount of skills and is also playable by a controller is Final Fantasy Online.
    I totally agree , combat has been significantly streamlined and simplified for controllers, and most all PC games are victims of these new mechanics.  I also agree with the OP and would argue that as more developers emerge they are simply a product of their environment. These are kids that grew up on controllers, grew up on combat centered around controllers, so they design their own systems in that vein.  Those of us that remember deep complex combat mechanics and strategies really notice a difference.  Now days combat depth is measured by chaining together left right left up down left right button spamming creating "combo chains".  Not selecting from say 20 unique skills to be used at the correct moment.

    In other words you can teach a monkey to hit the same 5 keys in a row for a reward, but you cant teach him to hit 5 different buttons every time based on real-time feedback from the battle environment.  I think that's what the OP means by childlike.
    Post edited by goboygo on
  • AAAMEOWAAAMEOW Member UncommonPosts: 757
    So where's the video showing off the OP's superior video game skill?

    If you guys think games are so easy.  Would like to see some video of it.
  • delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 5,220
    AAAMEOW said:
    So where's the video showing off the OP's superior video game skill?

    If you guys think games are so easy.  Would like to see some video of it.
    See, I don't get it ?
    Games are so child like a 4 to 7 year old could play play them. 
    Sure this could be a players style.  To each their own.

    But because I'm calling games like they are, people assume I think I'm a great player.... What does my skill have to do with anything ?
  • GruntyGrunty Member RarePosts: 8,516
    TorvalMisterZebubAmathe
    "I used to think the worst thing in life was to be all alone.  It's not.  The worst thing in life is to end up with people who make you feel all alone."  Robin Williams
  • UngoodUngood Member EpicPosts: 1,775
    AAAMEOW said:
    So where's the video showing off the OP's superior video game skill?

    If you guys think games are so easy.  Would like to see some video of it.
    See, I don't get it ?
    Games are so child like a 4 to 7 year old could play play them. 
    Sure this could be a players style.  To each their own.

    But because I'm calling games like they are, people assume I think I'm a great player.... What does my skill have to do with anything ?
    It means you are getting owned by 4 year olds... 
    Kylerandelete5230Jean-Luc_Picard
    There is no Truth, only the Illusions we wish to Cling to. Knowing this, why do we all cling to such shitty illusions?
    Currently Playing Eternal Crusade, because killing people with a Chainsword is more fun then a sniper rifle.
  • AAAMEOWAAAMEOW Member UncommonPosts: 757
    AAAMEOW said:
    So where's the video showing off the OP's superior video game skill?

    If you guys think games are so easy.  Would like to see some video of it.
    See, I don't get it ?
    Games are so child like a 4 to 7 year old could play play them. 
    Sure this could be a players style.  To each their own.

    But because I'm calling games like they are, people assume I think I'm a great player.... What does my skill have to do with anything ?
    I'd like to see your time in dark soul 3 no hit taken speed run.  Or pvp profile in any mmorpg.
    Jean-Luc_Picard
  • HorusraHorusra Member RarePosts: 3,957
    Since MMORPGs are supposedly so easy even a 5 years old can play them without dying, I suggest the OP proves it to us with the following challenge.

    - Roll a character in WoW, since it's a game he supposedly knows quite well.
    - Get to max level. Of course, using a boost is forbidden.
    - Post a screenshot showing the character's level and the statistic panel showing 0 deaths. Also include the panel with the kills and the one with quests completed, so we can see you didn't use any boost. We may ask more proof if in doubt (other panels).

    Note that I'm not holding my breath.

    Good luck.
    Ok,
    But first can I buy the "Elixir of Rapid Mind" in the cash shop for $19.99 ?

    That should make it A LOT easer.  Than God for cash shops :) 

     

    Unless you are sarcastic that does not exist.
  • TheocritusTheocritus Member EpicPosts: 6,479
    Well it started with WoW,,,,We want to be entertained and not challenged you said, and the companies heard you...now 5 year olds can play them.
  • PalebanePalebane Member UncommonPosts: 3,264
    edited January 13
    Well it started with WoW,,,,We want to be entertained and not challenged you said, and the companies heard you...now 5 year olds can play them.
    But can they choose the correct gear or stats? When I started ESO I chose my gear based on stats and ignored item level. By level 15 I was struggling. After some research I discovered that is a big deal and within the next few item drops I was back to manageble combat. What 5 year old would do that? Or even a 13 year old these days?
    Post edited by Palebane on

    Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.

  • delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 5,220
    Palebane said:
    Well it started with WoW,,,,We want to be entertained and not challenged you said, and the companies heard you...now 5 year olds can play them.
    But can they choose the correct gear or stats? When I started ESO I chose my gear based on stats and ignored item level. By level 15 I was struggling. After some research I discovered that is a big deal and within the next few item drops I was back to manageble combat. What 5 year old would do that? Or even a 13 year old these days?
    Because a 5 year old will go by the "simple" thing like item level.

    Just think simple next time.  The modern mmorpg is not designed for thinking deeply or off putting variables.... In what your saying, it almost sounds like stats are a fake prop that may not do anything. 
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