What is the appear of Realm vs Realm?

AAAMEOW

Why do people enjoy realm vs realm?  Even though I played warhammer and gw2.  I never seemed to understand why people enjoy it.

There just seemed no purpose at all.  People just running around conqueroring empty castle.  

In arena type pvp, there is at least a purpose.  People care which side wins.  No one cares in Realm vs Realm.  

AAAMEOW

DMKano said:

Because people were expecting a better version of DAoC.

It never happened. 

People are finally waking up to the fact that the originals will be unmatched by anything newer.

DAoC will remain the best RvR game of all time

I didn't play DAoC.  What exactly is the appear of DAoC.  Why do people enjoy it?  What exactly is better about it?

ZoeMcCloskey

Big problem is that all the new realm vs realm is that they are all the same classes basically.  Part of what made DaoC great was each realm was like playing a different MMO in ways.  The races, classes, and even the land and dungeons were completely different from each other.

So it generated some realm pride and wanting to go defend if the Albs or Hibs showed up, yeah I was Mid primarily.  The fact that each realm had COMPLETELY different classes from each other also made it much more paper-rock-scissors and much more fun.  You had to know on sight what class the enemy was and know if you could deal with them alone or if you should run or what.

Neither Warhammer nor GW2 came even remotely close to DaoC for the RvR.

rojoArcueid

DMKano said:

Because people were expecting a better version of DAoC.

It never happened. 

People are finally waking up to the fact that the originals will be unmatched by anything newer.

DAoC will remain the best RvR game of all time

Even the same studio will never replicate DaoC if they tried. I never tried RvR there so i don't even know what was so good about it. If it's fun then that's what counts for me.

Iselin

AAAMEOW said:

DMKano said:

Because people were expecting a better version of DAoC.

It never happened. 

People are finally waking up to the fact that the originals will be unmatched by anything newer.

DAoC will remain the best RvR game of all time

I didn't play DAoC.  What exactly is the appear of DAoC.  Why do people enjoy it?  What exactly is better about it?

You either enjoy that type of larger scale war simulation or you don't. It's also better suited for RPGs with their character development power ramps because the larger scale minimizes the effect of those inevitable imbalances. A 1v1 duel emphasizes power disparities. A 100 v 100 fight, not so much.

I find arena PvP matches in MMOs pointless. To me arena PvP is just too gamey and e-sport wannabeish for MMOs. That kind of PvP is best suited to shooters with even playing fields where everyone starts a match more or less at the same power level.

I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong but arena PvP started with WOW and was essentially an FPS cut and paste that WOW added to MMOs. Before that we fought out in the world, often in large fights.

DAoC just refined what already existed and restricted it to certain portions of the open world which they called the "frontier." They spiced things up by adding keep conquest and siege weapons in a way that worked well. Their biggest innovation, IMO, was that separation of PvP and PvE while still maintaining that open world PvP feeling in the frontiers.

By the time Warhammer online came around MMO populations were already WOWified and it was all about gaming the game. The culture in WAR was totally different than DAoC's and people mostly RvR'd there just to kill time while they were waiting for their arena PvP scenario to pop. That was hugely different from DAoC where PvP was all RvR. So the whole gamification of RvR with pointless keep swapping and avoiding fights to take undefended keeps and jack up your individual rewards started there.

I agree with Kano in that we'll probably never see RvR as good as it was in DAoC ever again but not because I think it can't be mechanically developed to be as good or better but rather because MMO players don't play games the same way as we did 20 years ago. It's all about working the angles to pad your own individual progression. Shit.... DAoC didn't even give you any individual benefits from RvR in the beginning. That came later. At first you just did it for the fun and nothing more.