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Sea of Thieves – Also Misrepresented - MMORPG.com

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  • Red_ThomasRed_Thomas Member RarePosts: 506
    crankked said:
    I hope we are not going to start praising these clowns after they released a piece of shit unfinished game and then were kind enough to give the DLC's for free. So sick of all these gaming studios flooding the market with garbage, taking months/years to fix it, but still charge full price on release. Sad state of affairs we are in today.....

    Also @Rhoklaw: Couldn't agree more on not supporting OS exclusive titles. If it's on PC, it should work on PC and not be limited to your shitty Win 10 software that no one wants, but is now being forced down our throats by Intel and MS.
    One thing to consider is that there are some technical differences between Win10 and Win7.  For one, there are directX versions and a lot of current drivers that aren't backward compatible, and end of life happens for operating systems, just like it happens for any other software.   You can spend all your time infinitely regression testing and fixing issues with older OSs.

    From a developmental standpoint, you're demanding they invest effort in supporting something that they may not get a return on their investment for.  Stuff that runs on one doesn't always run on the other, so it's not like they're writing in some code that blocks it from working on the earlier OS.  It's just not supported.  You might even still be able to get it to run if you really wanted to.

    There's nothing wrong with voting with your dollar.  I do it myself because I don't buy console games.  I want PC and I think consoles hurt video games a lot, so I don't buy games that are released on console and often won't buy them if they started on console and ported.

    I think the reverse compatibility thing might be a little bit unreasonable, though.  MS can't support Win7 forever.

    I'm super empathetic to the aversion to Win10's spyware.  I'm a cyber dude and a former intel dude, so I'm right there with you.  There are ways to disable/block all of it, though.  Just takes a little research and effort.
    TorvalTacticalZombeh
  • Viper482Viper482 Member EpicPosts: 2,561
    edited January 4

    Rhoklaw said:

    First mistake... Windows 10. Yes, I have Windows 10, but I won't support exclusive platform games. Just ask Rock Star if I bought Red Dead Redemption 2 or if I bought another Windows 10 exclusive State of Decay 2. I understand console or PC only games, but when you start doing crap like operating system exclusive, something tells me you think too much of yourself.



    Time out....am I reading this correctly? Are you implying the game is not doing well because it is PC only? And you are actually boycotting a PC only game calling it a......"operating system exclusive"?

    I'm too shocked really to completely spit my water out on my keyboard laughing at this. And to top it off...you call yourself a PC Gamer only. Please tell me if I got this wrong because if I don't.....holy hell. Reeeeaaaalllly?
    AlmostLancelot
    Make MMORPG's Great Again!
  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 20,821
    Am I the only one who thinks that the character models are ugly?  When I first saw the game, I thought it was some low-budget indie game because the character models were so bad.  I was surprised that it was supposed to be some big-budget, high graphics game.  I'll concede that the other stuff in the screenshots looks a lot better than the character models.

    Bad character models is a forgivable offense if the gameplay is good, of course.  But when your case for playing a game relies so heavily on "look how beautiful the world is", ugly characters are something of a problem.
    Tokken
  • MikehaMikeha Member EpicPosts: 8,886
    edited January 4
    3th most watched game on Twitch with only Fortnite and League Of Legends ahead of it. 
    Sea Of Thieves is ahead of games like Rainbow Six, Counter Strike, DOTA, Call Of Duty, PUBG, Overwatch and World Of Warcraft. 


    Prove these haters wrong Rare! ;)  







  • BananableBananable Member UncommonPosts: 194
    edited January 4
    "Fallout 76 – Also Misrepresented" "State of decay 2 – Also Misrepresented"

    You dont even bother with titles anymore. LOLZ.

    "Everyone loves a good pirate game."

    First of all - no. Not everyone. Second - good game? Like wildstar? 

     THE WOW KILLER. :P

    Another of these amazing MS/console exclusives. HA!
    SoT is just same stupid multiplayer pvp like any other. What so special about it?

    Btw, theres no regional prices in MS store. So its cost more than F76 or GW2.  
    LOLZ.


    I personally liked "Pirates! Gold" when i was kid. But now i think AC: Black Flag is (bad AC game :P) amazing game about pirates. But i never played it, despite i got it for free.
  • ThaneThane Member RarePosts: 3,333

    Phry said:


    Dick1232 said:

    SOT is a million times better then Atlas.  


    1 million x 0 is still 0 however. :p



    yea, but it's always a million time PLUS ONE better!

    you don't have sibblings, do you? :P
    Red_Thomas

    "I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"

  • RhoklawRhoklaw Member EpicPosts: 6,405
    Viper482 said:

    Rhoklaw said:

    First mistake... Windows 10. Yes, I have Windows 10, but I won't support exclusive platform games. Just ask Rock Star if I bought Red Dead Redemption 2 or if I bought another Windows 10 exclusive State of Decay 2. I understand console or PC only games, but when you start doing crap like operating system exclusive, something tells me you think too much of yourself.



    Time out....am I reading this correctly? Are you implying the game is not doing well because it is PC only? And you are actually boycotting a PC only game calling it a......"operating system exclusive"?

    I'm too shocked really to completely spit my water out on my keyboard laughing at this. And to top it off...you call yourself a PC Gamer only. Please tell me if I got this wrong because if I don't.....holy hell. Reeeeaaaalllly?
    No, actually you would be incorrect. I said Sea of Thieves and State of Decay 2 are Windows 10 exclusive games on the PC. It wasn't until just recently that Windows 10 outpaced Windows 7 in overall usage. It's stuff like this where Windows tries to coerce people into upgrades they don't want. I also said I have Windows 10 on my laptop, but I still chose not to purchase it.
    Asm0deus

  • rodarinrodarin Member RarePosts: 2,422
    Mikeha said:
    3th most watched game on Twitch with only Fortnite and League Of Legends ahead of it. 
    Sea Of Thieves is ahead of games like Rainbow Six, Counter Strike, DOTA, Call Of Duty, PUBG, Overwatch and World Of Warcraft. 


    Prove these haters wrong Rare! ;)  







    If Summit and his 45K viewers werent there they wouldnt have 5K people watching it.

    You get a feel for what games are consistantly top 5 or 10 and when something appears out of the blue you know someone like lirik or Cohh or some other  guy is streaming it for shits and giggles (or money).

    I suspect Summit who crucified Atlas was approached by the SoT guys and he is getting well compensated for playing that game right now. Its all about timing. I would also be remiss to say I suspect h alf of the 'viewers' Summit has are bots because he generally cant break 25K on a 'normal' night. 

    So far the best war action has been the propaganda and viewbot war between Atlas and SoT both utter failures at what they claimed to be wanting and what they actually delivered. And save the "Atlas is EA" That didnt stop them from making all the claims during the hype tour or making that movie claiming it was in game footage.
  • MikehaMikeha Member EpicPosts: 8,886
    edited January 4
    rodarin said:
    Mikeha said:
    3th most watched game on Twitch with only Fortnite and League Of Legends ahead of it. 
    Sea Of Thieves is ahead of games like Rainbow Six, Counter Strike, DOTA, Call Of Duty, PUBG, Overwatch and World Of Warcraft. 


    Prove these haters wrong Rare! ;)  







    If Summit and his 45K viewers werent there they wouldnt have 5K people watching it.


    Cool story bro, B) 

    Prove these haters wrong Rare!!!!!!!!!





  • HashbrickHashbrick Member RarePosts: 1,782
    Mikeha said:
    rodarin said:
    Mikeha said:
    3th most watched game on Twitch with only Fortnite and League Of Legends ahead of it. 
    Sea Of Thieves is ahead of games like Rainbow Six, Counter Strike, DOTA, Call Of Duty, PUBG, Overwatch and World Of Warcraft. 


    Prove these haters wrong Rare! ;)  







    If Summit and his 45K viewers werent there they wouldnt have 5K people watching it.


    Cool story bro, B) 






    Also the fact that counter-strike is on a player break.  When the tournaments start up again, it will be on back on top, so there's that as well.
    I'm a simple man spoiled from MMOs of the old age.  Looking for a home but deserted.  My heart and time is not worthy for the MMOs of the new age.
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,483
    edited January 4
    crankked said:
    I hope we are not going to start praising these clowns after they released a piece of shit unfinished game and then were kind enough to give the DLC's for free. So sick of all these gaming studios flooding the market with garbage, taking months/years to fix it, but still charge full price on release. Sad state of affairs we are in today.....

    Also @Rhoklaw: Couldn't agree more on not supporting OS exclusive titles. If it's on PC, it should work on PC and not be limited to your shitty Win 10 software that no one wants, but is now being forced down our throats by Intel and MS.
    One thing to consider is that there are some technical differences between Win10 and Win7.  For one, there are directX versions and a lot of current drivers that aren't backward compatible, and end of life happens for operating systems, just like it happens for any other software.   You can spend all your time infinitely regression testing and fixing issues with older OSs.

    From a developmental standpoint, you're demanding they invest effort in supporting something that they may not get a return on their investment for.  Stuff that runs on one doesn't always run on the other, so it's not like they're writing in some code that blocks it from working on the earlier OS.  It's just not supported.  You might even still be able to get it to run if you really wanted to.

    There's nothing wrong with voting with your dollar.  I do it myself because I don't buy console games.  I want PC and I think consoles hurt video games a lot, so I don't buy games that are released on console and often won't buy them if they started on console and ported.

    I think the reverse compatibility thing might be a little bit unreasonable, though.  MS can't support Win7 forever.

    I'm super empathetic to the aversion to Win10's spyware.  I'm a cyber dude and a former intel dude, so I'm right there with you.  There are ways to disable/block all of it, though.  Just takes a little research and effort.
    I guess the better question is: should it take independent consumer research merely to prevent the automatic harvesting of data from the user in this way?

    My opinion is no.  If every electronic app or product required such research, no one would have time to do anything but that to keep their information secure.

    image
  • Red_ThomasRed_Thomas Member RarePosts: 506
    Bananable said:
    "Fallout 76 – Also Misrepresented" "State of decay 2 – Also Misrepresented"

    You dont even bother with titles anymore. LOLZ.

    "Everyone loves a good pirate game."

    First of all - no. Not everyone. Second - good game? Like wildstar? 

     THE WOW KILLER. :P

    Another of these amazing MS/console exclusives. HA!
    SoT is just same stupid multiplayer pvp like any other. What so special about it?

    Btw, theres no regional prices in MS store. So its cost more than F76 or GW2.  
    LOLZ.


    I personally liked "Pirates! Gold" when i was kid. But now i think AC: Black Flag is (bad AC game :P) amazing game about pirates. But i never played it, despite i got it for free.
    ...I think you might be confusing authors.  I've never covered State of Decay of any version.  My last FO76 article was "Fallout 76: Uninstalled" (https://www.mmorpg.com/fallout-76/columns/fallout-76-uninstalled-1000013255)

    Also don't think I ever called Wildstar a WoW killer.   I did think (and may have said at some point) that Crowfall had a really good chance at it.  I still do to a degree, though I think WoW has largely died off to old age at this point.

    I acknowledged a few successes in my FO76 articles.  Is that maybe what you're referring to?

    ... So I guess I'm not sure what your point is.  "LOLZ"

  • Red_ThomasRed_Thomas Member RarePosts: 506
    Rhoklaw said:
    No, actually you would be incorrect. I said Sea of Thieves and State of Decay 2 are Windows 10 exclusive games on the PC. It wasn't until just recently that Windows 10 outpaced Windows 7 in overall usage. It's stuff like this where Windows tries to coerce people into upgrades they don't want. I also said I have Windows 10 on my laptop, but I still chose not to purchase it.
    Last I checked the free upgrade from 7 to 10 still worked.   They never disabled it.  Just set an end date and stopped advertising.

    Stick it to the man by getting his product for free.  =P
  • Red_ThomasRed_Thomas Member RarePosts: 506
    Hashbrick said:
    Also the fact that counter-strike is on a player break.  When the tournaments start up again, it will be on back on top, so there's that as well.
    Just no accounting for lack of taste...  =*(
  • Red_ThomasRed_Thomas Member RarePosts: 506
    I guess the better question is: should it take independent consumer research merely to prevent the automatic harvesting of data from the user in this way?

    My opinion is no.  If every electronic app or product required such research, no one would have time to do anything but that to keep their information secure.
    I'm not sure how you'd do that.  Someone would have to pay for it, and you don't want the software developer paying for it themselves.

    On top of that, there's the big question of revenue.  If you're not paying for the product, it's because you are the product (to borrow an old phrase).  There's a reason Win10 is free, just like Google, Facebook, Youtube, and all the other free stuff out there.  You're either being advertised to, or your data is being collected and sold.

    Personally, I don't really object to my data being collected and sold, but I do demand that it be anonymized.  I think THAT is where we should focus effort and be able to have some successes.  Saying a guy in San Antonio is interested in a rack-mount UPS is fine.  Saying Red Thomas at a specific address just bought a specific UPS...  That's pushing it too far.

    I think if we could define what level of detail constitutes privacy and then just have inspections to ensure more granular data isn't being collected, then companies could still develop and use those cool free tools we all love, and our privacy would still be protected.

    In the case of Win10, the data they collected was actually all about security.  They wanted to make sure you kept your system up to date and they wanted to use their systems to track the flow of malicious activity.  Noble idea, just didn't really consider the privacy concerns that would generate.
  • rodarinrodarin Member RarePosts: 2,422
    Mikeha said:
    rodarin said:
    Mikeha said:
    3th most watched game on Twitch with only Fortnite and League Of Legends ahead of it. 
    Sea Of Thieves is ahead of games like Rainbow Six, Counter Strike, DOTA, Call Of Duty, PUBG, Overwatch and World Of Warcraft. 


    Prove these haters wrong Rare! ;)  







    If Summit and his 45K viewers werent there they wouldnt have 5K people watching it.


    Cool story bro, B) 

    Prove these haters wrong Rare!!!!!!!!!





    Not sure what that second SS is supposed to represent. A lot of people are buying a bad game? Shocking....
  • Red_ThomasRed_Thomas Member RarePosts: 506
    rodarin said:
    Not sure what that second SS is supposed to represent. A lot of people are buying a bad game? Shocking....
    ...Well, if a lot of people are buying it, it's by definition not a bad game.   Any game that sells successfully enough to make the studio a profit was a good game.   If it wasn't a good game, then the target audience wouldn't buy it and the game wouldn't be profitable.

    I don't like Gears of War, but hey.  It's selling well, so it's a good game.   Just not one I care for.  I can go all day listing things I don't like about GoW, but none of it makes it a bad game if the market says otherwise.
  • rodarinrodarin Member RarePosts: 2,422
    rodarin said:
    Not sure what that second SS is supposed to represent. A lot of people are buying a bad game? Shocking....
    ...Well, if a lot of people are buying it, it's by definition not a bad game.   Any game that sells successfully enough to make the studio a profit was a good game.   If it wasn't a good game, then the target audience wouldn't buy it and the game wouldn't be profitable.

    I don't like Gears of War, but hey.  It's selling well, so it's a good game.   Just not one I care for.  I can go all day listing things I don't like about GoW, but none of it makes it a bad game if the market says otherwise.
    LMAO you must be young or something. How many tens of millions do you think games like Warhammer online, Age of Conan (the first one), and Wildstar made JUST on box sales?

    People buy shit every day. People bought FO 76 even when it was clearly a steaming pile of crap.

    I say it in the Star Citizen forums all the time, you cant underestimate the stupidity of people enough.

    Video games dont have that same ratio of 'good'/playable to money made as other things do. In fact its sometimes the opposite, the worse a game or project is the more money it makes (because it has potential or vision). Again look at Star Citizen. A true phenomenon. literally (I guess its been verified) hundreds of millions raised. What do they have? A broken tech demo test bed servers and about a hundred jpegs that havent been made into ships, and tank jpegs that will probably never be made into game assets. Along with land and anything and everything else they sold.

    The EA and kickstarter and crowdfunded games that hide behind some semantics bullshit are why the video gaming industry and MMO portion of it are where they are now and why phone games are basically taking over. Because its all a bunch of washed up never weres or try hards selling shit anyone with common sense knows isnt possible and then when the inevitable failure happens it just adds more victims to the pile of failures already realized.
  • Red_ThomasRed_Thomas Member RarePosts: 506
    rodarin said:
    LMAO you must be young or something. How many tens of millions do you think games like Warhammer online, Age of Conan (the first one), and Wildstar made JUST on box sales?

    People buy shit every day. People bought FO 76 even when it was clearly a steaming pile of crap.

    I say it in the Star Citizen forums all the time, you cant underestimate the stupidity of people enough.

    Video games dont have that same ratio of 'good'/playable to money made as other things do. In fact its sometimes the opposite, the worse a game or project is the more money it makes (because it has potential or vision). Again look at Star Citizen. A true phenomenon. literally (I guess its been verified) hundreds of millions raised. What do they have? A broken tech demo test bed servers and about a hundred jpegs that havent been made into ships, and tank jpegs that will probably never be made into game assets. Along with land and anything and everything else they sold.

    The EA and kickstarter and crowdfunded games that hide behind some semantics bullshit are why the video gaming industry and MMO portion of it are where they are now and why phone games are basically taking over. Because its all a bunch of washed up never weres or try hards selling shit anyone with common sense knows isnt possible and then when the inevitable failure happens it just adds more victims to the pile of failures already realized.
    Actually, I'm a business owner and an angel investor/venture capitalist, and I'm 40.

    I'd say I have a pretty good understanding of the economics and market around video games.

    Your mistake is that you've developed an opinion and decided that your belief constitutes absolute truth.  All other differing opinions are invalid and misguided, no matter what empirical data (eg, sales figures) say.

    Games are business.  The jobs of developers are to create something that makes the company profit.   If the game it profitable, it doesn't really matter how much you personally hate it, the game was a success.  Building games people want is good business, so teams spend a lot of time figuring out what their consumers want.   Guess what?  They've spoken very loudly that they want early access and that they don't care much about how buggy the game is when they get it.  Thus, that's what developers create.

    Their ROI is higher for features than it is for stability and consistent functionality.  That's what they work on.  The other stuff is important, too.  It all gets balanced by the executive producer to ensure developer time is spent so that the company gets the best bang for their buck.  Whatever that studio thinks that happens to be.

    Star Citizen is a good example.   It's a game I don't support.  I have a number of very serious issues with the studio, development, and personal issues with a number of involved people...   All that said, it's a successful game.  They've been profitable.  The fact that I don't like it has nothing to do with the empirical fact of the project's success.

    Funny thing about facts.  They don't really care about your opinion.
    Sovrath
  • PhryPhry Member LegendaryPosts: 10,727
    Thane said:

    Phry said:


    Dick1232 said:

    SOT is a million times better then Atlas.  


    1 million x 0 is still 0 however. :p



    yea, but it's always a million time PLUS ONE better!

    you don't have sibblings, do you? :P
    He's married so no you can't have him. :p
  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 19,375
    edited January 4
    Rhoklaw said:
    No, actually you would be incorrect. I said Sea of Thieves and State of Decay 2 are Windows 10 exclusive games on the PC. It wasn't until just recently that Windows 10 outpaced Windows 7 in overall usage. It's stuff like this where Windows tries to coerce people into upgrades they don't want. I also said I have Windows 10 on my laptop, but I still chose not to purchase it.
    Last I checked the free upgrade from 7 to 10 still worked.   They never disabled it.  Just set an end date and stopped advertising.

    Stick it to the man by getting his product for free.  =P
    The resistance to software upgrades baffles me. Most companies charge hundreds of dollars for major version upgrades. Windows licensing has effectively gotten a bit cheaper and more consistent and more robust if you consider how they can be tied to your account. Given the choice I'll use Win 10 of 7 any day, if I have to us a Windows desktop.

    I don't use Windows anymore and don't even think about using it anymore except as that workstation I remote into for work. Almost anything I could want to play is on my PS4 and if not I could get an XBox or Switch. About 80% of my Steam library works well on Ubuntu as it is. All of the games I truly care about (replay) work great so, for me, PC gaming is fine not on Windows. My file I/O is massively better that's for certain. SteamPlay and Proton rock.

    It's nice not even having to think about that much anymore. If I don't like the defaults coming in 19.04 (which I do) then I can run what I want, or change distros with very little effort. It's a completely different way of thinking that is incredibly liberating beyond the price tag (which I don't really care about).

    oops. sorry i got so OT.
    take back the hobby: https://www.reddit.com/r/patientgamers/

    traveller, interloper, anomaly
    ༼ つ ◕◕ ༽つ

  • Red_ThomasRed_Thomas Member RarePosts: 506
    Torval said:
    The resistance to software upgrades baffles me. Most companies charge hundreds of dollars for major version upgrades. Windows licensing has effectively gotten a bit cheaper and more consistent and more robust if you consider how they can be tied to your account. Given the choice I'll use Win 10 of 7 any day, if I have to us a Windows desktop.

    I don't use Windows anymore and don't even think about using it anymore except as that workstation I remote into for work. Almost anything I could want to play is on my PS4 and if not I could get an XBox or Switch. About 80% of my Steam library works well on Ubuntu as it is. All of the games I truly care about (replay) work great so, for me, PC gaming is fine not on Windows. My file I/O is massively better that's for certain. SteamPlay and Proton rock.

    It's nice not even having to think about that much anymore. If I don't like the defaults coming in 19.04 (which I do) then I can run what I want, or change distros with very little effort. It's a completely different way of thinking that is incredibly liberating beyond the price tag (which I don't really care about).

    oops. sorry i got so OT.
    As a once-upon-a-time sysad, I have more than my share of upgrade horror stories.   There are a ton of reasons why folks resist.  I hated them because so many were brittle and could (and pretty often did) take systems down. 

    The other issue is that upgrades often change the way things work, so that breaks your workflow and can be really frustrating.  Elasticsearch changed the way documents were labeled between versions 5 and 6, and that completely busted some of the tricks I was using in my logstash ingests for processing some types of cyber data.

    I think the Win10 resistance is the most legitimate of all reasons, though.  MS definitely included some really dirty stuff in Win10 that it's totally fair to be upset about.  I delayed the upgrade myself while trying to figure out how to deal with it.

    All that said, upgrades are important and everyone should be doing them.  WannaCry has been the absolute prime example of why you have to stay updated, and it's just the best example.  MS and other devs fix tons of vulns every minute and not patching just leaves you out there waiting to get pwned.

    ...and btw...   Security is ALWAYS on topic.  =P
    Torval
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,483
    edited January 4
    I guess the better question is: should it take independent consumer research merely to prevent the automatic harvesting of data from the user in this way?

    My opinion is no.  If every electronic app or product required such research, no one would have time to do anything but that to keep their information secure.
    I'm not sure how you'd do that.  Someone would have to pay for it, and you don't want the software developer paying for it themselves.

    On top of that, there's the big question of revenue.  If you're not paying for the product, it's because you are the product (to borrow an old phrase).  There's a reason Win10 is free, just like Google, Facebook, Youtube, and all the other free stuff out there.  You're either being advertised to, or your data is being collected and sold.

    Personally, I don't really object to my data being collected and sold, but I do demand that it be anonymized.  I think THAT is where we should focus effort and be able to have some successes.  Saying a guy in San Antonio is interested in a rack-mount UPS is fine.  Saying Red Thomas at a specific address just bought a specific UPS...  That's pushing it too far.

    I think if we could define what level of detail constitutes privacy and then just have inspections to ensure more granular data isn't being collected, then companies could still develop and use those cool free tools we all love, and our privacy would still be protected.

    In the case of Win10, the data they collected was actually all about security.  They wanted to make sure you kept your system up to date and they wanted to use their systems to track the flow of malicious activity.  Noble idea, just didn't really consider the privacy concerns that would generate.
    True enough, though the usage of the data here doesn't seem to indicate Win 10 users are the product; as you say, the goal seemed to be security.

    The complex issue is that most consumers, if asked individually, would tell you they want full control over their data, even if that means they're responsible for their equipment's security.  That wouldn't be an issue, except that viruses and worms don't just stick around on one system; one infected system poses a risk to any other system that can communicate with the infected system.  So, in essence, the user becomes responsible for their own equipment and, in part, others' equipment.


    In that sense, I agree with you: it's not an easy answer.  However, my point isn't so much that the collecting of data is always wrong; it's how some companies intentionally make opting out or turning sharing off an exercise in software-nerd forum surfing.  That's not a workable level of required expertise for all electronic apps and equipment modern society mandates on us, and see the net result: highly vulnerable consumers. 
    Post edited by MadFrenchie on
    Red_Thomas

    image
  • rodarinrodarin Member RarePosts: 2,422
    rodarin said:
    LMAO you must be young or something. How many tens of millions do you think games like Warhammer online, Age of Conan (the first one), and Wildstar made JUST on box sales?

    People buy shit every day. People bought FO 76 even when it was clearly a steaming pile of crap.

    I say it in the Star Citizen forums all the time, you cant underestimate the stupidity of people enough.

    Video games dont have that same ratio of 'good'/playable to money made as other things do. In fact its sometimes the opposite, the worse a game or project is the more money it makes (because it has potential or vision). Again look at Star Citizen. A true phenomenon. literally (I guess its been verified) hundreds of millions raised. What do they have? A broken tech demo test bed servers and about a hundred jpegs that havent been made into ships, and tank jpegs that will probably never be made into game assets. Along with land and anything and everything else they sold.

    The EA and kickstarter and crowdfunded games that hide behind some semantics bullshit are why the video gaming industry and MMO portion of it are where they are now and why phone games are basically taking over. Because its all a bunch of washed up never weres or try hards selling shit anyone with common sense knows isnt possible and then when the inevitable failure happens it just adds more victims to the pile of failures already realized.
    Actually, I'm a business owner and an angel investor/venture capitalist, and I'm 40.

    I'd say I have a pretty good understanding of the economics and market around video games.

    Your mistake is that you've developed an opinion and decided that your belief constitutes absolute truth.  All other differing opinions are invalid and misguided, no matter what empirical data (eg, sales figures) say.

    Games are business.  The jobs of developers are to create something that makes the company profit.   If the game it profitable, it doesn't really matter how much you personally hate it, the game was a success.  Building games people want is good business, so teams spend a lot of time figuring out what their consumers want.   Guess what?  They've spoken very loudly that they want early access and that they don't care much about how buggy the game is when they get it.  Thus, that's what developers create.

    Their ROI is higher for features than it is for stability and consistent functionality.  That's what they work on.  The other stuff is important, too.  It all gets balanced by the executive producer to ensure developer time is spent so that the company gets the best bang for their buck.  Whatever that studio thinks that happens to be.

    Star Citizen is a good example.   It's a game I don't support.  I have a number of very serious issues with the studio, development, and personal issues with a number of involved people...   All that said, it's a successful game.  They've been profitable.  The fact that I don't like it has nothing to do with the empirical fact of the project's success.

    Funny thing about facts.  They don't really care about your opinion.
    the fact that you think SC is a success negates everything. Other than if Roberts and his cronies actually have siphoned off enough money to buy the yacht he claims he doesnt own. NOTHING about SC beyond the money they have separated from saps is by any stretch a success. SO in essence its a very successful con. Maybe it didnt start that way but at this point it is. I imagine ROberts realizes they have little to no actual legit chance to release anything recognizable as "star citizen' they blew through 200+ million already and they havent got shit to show for it. So continuing to take money knowing the chances are slim to none is a con, scam, whatever you want to call it. The only defense is the white knights will claim he still thinks he can make it. Which also goes against history and common sense because the guy is doing EXACTLY the same thing he did 20 years ago when he disappeared from the gaming world. Overspending and over glitzing and never delivering.

    As for the other 'bottom line' stuff thats why there ownt ever be a decent MMO ever made again especially by companies who are worried about making money. Its also why for the most part 95% of the games put out are total trash.

    2018 was a banner year and even with some of the gems that came out this year I would say maybe 20 were actually decent. Of copurse thats all opinion but even if you took everyones opinion you couldnt come up with 35 game titles that people would think were acceptable let alone good. And that would include me saying FO 76 wasnt as bad as it was made out to be even though 90% of the people polled would say it sucked.
  • crankkedcrankked Member UncommonPosts: 76



    Torval said:
    The resistance to software upgrades baffles me. Most companies charge hundreds of dollars for major version upgrades. Windows licensing has effectively gotten a bit cheaper and more consistent and more robust if you consider how they can be tied to your account. Given the choice I'll use Win 10 of 7 any day, if I have to us a Windows desktop.

    I don't use Windows anymore and don't even think about using it anymore except as that workstation I remote into for work. Almost anything I could want to play is on my PS4 and if not I could get an XBox or Switch. About 80% of my Steam library works well on Ubuntu as it is. All of the games I truly care about (replay) work great so, for me, PC gaming is fine not on Windows. My file I/O is massively better that's for certain. SteamPlay and Proton rock.

    It's nice not even having to think about that much anymore. If I don't like the defaults coming in 19.04 (which I do) then I can run what I want, or change distros with very little effort. It's a completely different way of thinking that is incredibly liberating beyond the price tag (which I don't really care about).

    oops. sorry i got so OT.


    As a once-upon-a-time sysad, I have more than my share of upgrade horror stories.   There are a ton of reasons why folks resist.  I hated them because so many were brittle and could (and pretty often did) take systems down. 

    The other issue is that upgrades often change the way things work, so that breaks your workflow and can be really frustrating.  Elasticsearch changed the way documents were labeled between versions 5 and 6, and that completely busted some of the tricks I was using in my logstash ingests for processing some types of cyber data.

    I think the Win10 resistance is the most legitimate of all reasons, though.  MS definitely included some really dirty stuff in Win10 that it's totally fair to be upset about.  I delayed the upgrade myself while trying to figure out how to deal with it.

    All that said, upgrades are important and everyone should be doing them.  WannaCry has been the absolute prime example of why you have to stay updated, and it's just the best example.  MS and other devs fix tons of vulns every minute and not patching just leaves you out there waiting to get pwned.

    ...and btw...   Security is ALWAYS on topic.  =P



    It's not just the spyware stuff, it's the layout of WIN 10 that bothers me as well. They changed all the settings and now it seems like it's designed for stupid people who don't know how to change settings properly. I feel like they didn't want to take as many customer service calls, so they just dumbed it down. As a person who is able to make said changes without problem, that irritates me a lot.
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