Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
Are there any MMOs with heavy stat point influence
TheHonestPirate
UncommonPosts: 2Member
Have a strong stat point influence, I remember playing one of the P2W games back in the day where there were stat points per level and I put a bunch into CON and was able to tank noticeably better each level. I also remember having a friend in the game and when we would duel at very low levels, my high CON would negate a lot of his damage. Are there any games that are popular still have have this style of classes? Or a strong difference in tank vs dps classes? Games like WoW have the tank classes but they aren't that noticeably tankier than other classes at lower levels. I'm trying to stay away from P2W but at this point i'm just kinda looking for something to sink a little time into that i will enjoy. Any suggestions?
I've played the vast majority of MMOs that have gained any popularity in the last 12 years but I am open to be reminded of ones I have already played.
I've played the vast majority of MMOs that have gained any popularity in the last 12 years but I am open to be reminded of ones I have already played.
Comments
Lots of stat points that you can spread all over at will and making different characters, CO doesn't have that.
For OP's "where there were stat points per level and I put a bunch into CON and was able to tank noticeably better each level [...]" I'd say AO is a much better match. However, AO is somewhat limited to classes, that leads into the second part.
Building anything you want, going full tank or glass cannon, cherry-pick from all the powers in the game and create your own "class", for that CO is the place.
Not the f2p version, but FreeForm - unfortunately which is only available now through case-by-case purchases or by paying for the lifetime sub. But if you have access to FreeForm, you really can build anything you want. Free players are restricted to "classes" which are in practice pre-built power selections, by the same mechanics FreeForm uses.
(There are points you get during the leveling course, but those are for tweaking your selected powers and not for your stats. Maybe that's what Quizz mixed it with. You can adjust your stats too, in a few steps through Talents, but almost everyone goes with the optimal 5+5 increases)
Gloria Victis has 5 points per level too.
ESO but only between Health, Stamina and Magicka.. and you pretty much just dump into one for your build.
DDO and Neverwinter. You dont get stat choices every level but when you do the choice is super important. I'm sure you know DnD games, even based on modern rulesets, are more about character building and character choices than other games. You get ability points every level too and the choices are important.
Tree of Savior has a choice every level that is important. Make sure you understand the class system if you plan on trying it. You make permanent choices that aren't explained that well in the game.
Rift has a crazy skill tree system.. its not 'stat points' but your choices determine your role. If you've never tried Rift and you're after customization, definitely try it.
I think Rift, Neverwinter or DDO would be your best bet. You can really shape your characters differently depending on your choices.
So i'll try this approach.
Stat point game designs are NOT there to influence good decisions,they are only there for YOU to screw up.To again not get into a long discussion i'll keep it simple,min/max is ALWAYS the best choice.I would like to explain the simple math but it should be obvious already as to why.
Other bad designs are "energy" bars or games like Wow that remove you as a player and make it all about your gear.
ARPG's are everything that is wrong,the worst ideas for combat and character design all rolled into one game,just sad.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Games for people who like pretty colours where you have hardly a key to press and no need to do any thinking about what you do in game are where we are at.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
Because if you're talking about attributes, those were taken away due to people that shouldn't be playing MMOS, not being able to figure them out. Again, casuals changing our games.
"What!?!?! You mean my Wizard wants max INT, not STR!?!?!?!?"
The illusion of choice.
Game companies realized that they may as well not waste development time with other options if that is how players want games to be anyway.
Casuals had nothing to do with this.
>insulted and belittled anyone that did not use these perfect & ideal combos
Then you said
>Casuals had nothing to do with this
Who was insulted and belittled? Casuals? Those same people that for many reasons do not put the same amount of time into a game, but expect to be on par with those who do? Or have no idea where to put stat points? Then I agree.
You do understand why game devs studio accountants have people chase the RNG gear loot carrot, right? <psst, it's so players stay longer and spend more money>
You would never find a hardcore player running a Max Str Wizard, using a Longbow, and focusing on illusions.. but you would find casuals doing that, and having the time of their life in the process.
No it was hardcore players that removed stats from games, because they will only use the best combo, and insult anyone that does not do the same.
Now, to be honest, if they were such egotistical pricks about this, and had the maturity and decency to try to enjoy a game alongside those sub-optimal builds, we might still have choices in games.
But they weren't, and they would go to the game forums, reddit, and anywhere else that would listen to them, and cry about all these gimp and noobs that don't know how to play the game and that they suck and should never be allowed to play.
So, MMO developers removed the "bad" choices, and when you think about it, it was less work for them, so it was a Win-Win, as far as they went. We can see that hardcore were still not content by this, and would just rip apart a game till all choices were removed, and only the best Min-Max Combo for any class existed.. Hence also the rise in Gear Locked By Class, with only the best stat linked to it.
But This is all the fault of Min-Max Hardcore players that only ever wanted to play the best combo anyway, and were dicks to anyone that didn't.
again.. if they weren't major vocal and persistent jerks about it.. we might still have more games with more options.
So next time you log into an MMO and 90% of your build options don;'t exist.. you can thank a Hardcore player for that little bit of kill-joy.
Just look at the stat system in Pillars of Eternity. Every stat is important to every class. A Berserker without any intelligence is quite useless because of the extra AOE range it provides. If you don't want a dedicated tank with encounter control then it's totally viable to make sure your mages are in heavy armor with some constitution.
That alone proves that the problem was with the standardized system.. which is mainly DnDs fault.. but also every other games fault for adopting similar rules and not thinking outside the box.
Trying to get optimal build advice for Pillars is quite impossible because of all the viable options the system provides. There's just lots of opinions but no concrete 'best builds'.
(I'm talking about Pillars 1, I haven't played 2 yet)
The 3 key skills were intelligence, wisdom, and charisma and greatly affected a player's game play.
More PVE centric characters went with high charisma (with wisdom secondary,) especially after the hateful nerf (no way to respec back then) changed the number of bugbears summoned from random to being tied directly to charisma. It also impacted the number of dogs you could tame, which was a mages staple until they could summon bugbears.
High Intelligence, secondary wisdom gave the mage high alpha strike capability, so of course was a favorite of many PVPers, but some went with higher wisdom as certain high level area spells really chewed up mana.
A mage could not totally neglect strength, sometimes you just needed to whack stuff with a sword (higher level mobs which resisted magic) and it affected carry weight, which was important for looting and stacking health/ mana potions.
There were min max builds in each area, but no single build which ruled all. Couple that with some spells being incredibly rare it made them super expensive (I paid one million adena for my bugbear spell, a huge fortune I saved up for months to buy) or just impossible to get at any price.
I had the great fortune to get an invisibility spell as a drop, people offered me four million or so to sell it to them but I kept it for myself.
While bugbear builds weren't great in sieges, I would sneak in unseen and find a couple of characters furiously battling and blowing healing pots and if the enemies health was a bit low I'd uncloak, cast my bugbears and zerg the enemy to death, tossing in a spell or two as well.
Stats in builds used to matter, but WOW seemed to herald a major shift in no longer letting people create bad builds and either learning to live with their choices or rerolling and level up a new build.
I feel MMORPGs are poorer for it, but I have come to realize many changes made to improve playability came with unintended consequences which ultimately ruined the genre for some of us.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Stats can be a pro and a con. It really depends on the situation. I love games with stat allocation, but I also hate having to abide by one specific build for my class. Allowing for a more diverse playing field with multiple options in stat allocation that are viable would be ideal, but how many games have that realistically.
DAOC had weapons, armor and NPCs with strengths and weaknesses, so a stealth build around piercing weapons were great against chain, but slash builds were superior against plate and leather.
So depending on the realm you normally saw multiple builds favored for every class, and of course whenever a FOTM build truly was OP the devs nerfed it into oblivion .
There really was more variety in builds back.in the early days and catering to casuals so they couldn't screw up definitely crept into the designs along with min maxes as well.
No one factor influenced MMORPG design "de-evolution" rather was a combination of many things which ultimately goes back to most players being unable or unwilling to deal with being at a perceived disadvantage.
I say perceived because even in a MOBA players think everything is more equal but fact is most will be tragically slaughtered by the top gamers, realistically have no more chance of winning than they do in a totally P2W, gear centric game.
They just fool themselves into believing otherwise.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
You can pretend like making those "difficult" decisions somehow made you special but the reality is your build and the next guy's were within %10 of each-other.
Also, you veered way off-topic. We're talking about stat points, not skills/spell acquisition.
A casual wearing random stat greens is not ever (unless carried by a guild, good luck with that) going to get invited to group content which requires dps checks, gear checks, and timers. Hardcore players meet those requirements.
Now, please explain why hardcore players complained about stats to have them removed and not the casuals.
Equally so, some games did try to break away from a Ideal BiS Min-Max, like Dungeons and Dragon's Online. But even among them, there were Min-Max ideal build players, that had devised (by their view of things) The best build for a specific class, and all too often they are giant douches about it.
Not sure why those two things tend to go hand in hand, it's like every Min-Max player I ever met was this huge douche as well... but that just seems to be the magical nature of gamers.
But I am going to disagree with you. Players can enjoy a game,fully, and have the time of their life, and never one realize they are playing a "bad" build, simply because they don't view the game as a competition, but it is simply something to be played and enjoyed for it's entertainment value.
It was the Tryhards and Hardcore players that turned MMO's (even Purely PvE ones) into some warped competition of who could be the bigger asshole (These were the group that did not have the testicular fortitude to deal with being at a "disadvantage")... and they ruined the game for everyone around them.
When it comes to MOBA's, those are stright up PvP games and ideally in a PvP game, skill and tactics should be the division between a good gamer and a poor one in a PvP game. So if that is the division in those games, they are doing things right.
If the division is you need to max Strength with the Power Feat, and the Might Spec, and take the Cleave Trait, while using a two handed hammer with the Impact, Smash, and Bludgeoned Stat.. or else you suck.. and if that is the mentality of the players and how the game works out in functionality, then... they wasted a lot of dev time and money putting anything else in the game.
Just saying.
Tryhards and hardcore Min-Map players were the one bitching like little shits about this (and they sill are bitching like little shits about it now), not the casuals.
Not hard to figure out.
Added:
P.S: Keep bitching about the "Random Stat Greens".. and they will take that out next.
Nah, I'll just keep looking at your achievements and gear, then kick you. You're not going to waste my playtime. *shrugs*
Hope you find others to carry you. I really do. It won't be me though. Sorry.
Kudos.. you are the problem.
Edit: I play MOBA's.. I crush guys like you.