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SQ 42 roadmap updated

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  • rodarinrodarin Member EpicPosts: 2,576
    Its so bad that one of their most 'faithful' streamers BadnewsBaron literally quit mid stream today because he couldnt with a straight face spin anything positive about anything that has come out today. That and he was playing on the PTU and literally everything he tried to do was bugged. Just a sad day for all the SC faithful when a dose of reality starts hitting them in the face.
  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member EpicPosts: 7,275
    edited December 2018
    ... moved
    Post edited by MaxBacon on
  • Octagon7711Octagon7711 Member LegendaryPosts: 8,967
    This is from the email I got.  I'm thinking 2022 for release.  Alpha will probably be a year and beta also a year plus unforeseen delays.

    As we look forward to the holidays, I want to give you all a couple of updates. The first item of news is that the Squadron 42 public roadmap is going live today. As with our Persistent Universe roadmap, this is linked to our company’s internal JIRA tracking system, so you can see at a glance the work remaining to complete the game. It was a lot of work to make sure every remaining task was broken down in detail and estimated to the best of our ability.

    The same caveats will apply to the Squadron 42 roadmap as they do to the PU's, but our plan is to be feature and content complete by the end of 2019, with the first 6 months of 2020 for Alpha (balance, optimization, and polish) and then Beta.

    "We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa      "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are."  SR Covey

  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,505
    edited December 2018
    This is a lot of info, so correct me if I get something wrong:

    They exhausted approximately 40-45% of their reserved cash over the past three years.  SQ42, the less ambitious project, still has another year and a half to beta at best, meaning final SC release is likely 3+ years out (that sound fair?).

    At the rate they were burning through the reserve cash, they would likely fall short of covering expenses by the release year of SC (assuming a stable rate of cash burn that doesn't decrease or increase year over year).

    Does it seem to anyone else like the investor money was as much pragmatic necessity as anything else?  And, if so, that tacit admission that, after hundreds of millions of dollars from backers, CIG will burn through it all without actually having completed a single title...  Does that rub any backers here the wrong way?

    image
  • rodarinrodarin Member EpicPosts: 2,576
    Yeah so hilarious I cant wait for all the white knights who were saying how it was right around the corner will try and spin this.

    With everything that was dropped on people today it was probably worse news than if Crytek had won the lawsuit against them.

    Because now the lights are on and the dirty corners of this fiasco are getting exposed.

    And if theyre willing to admit Q4 (which lets face it means Dec) 2020 or whatever for the beta then tack on at least another year or two to that. So another 3 years at least more than likely 4. So that makes it just over a decade from the first interview and the release of a SINGLE player game that they did the voice acting for 2 or 3 years ago. How much longer for the Multiplayer portion?
  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member EpicPosts: 7,275
    edited December 2018
    ... moved

    Post edited by MaxBacon on
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,505
    MaxBacon said:
    @MadFrenchie well one thing we always knew is that the SC engine is SQ42's engine, so what was missing for SC and how developed and polished its mechanics are do represent the status of SQ42 as well.

    That's why 2020 does not surprise me and when I was speculating myself I already told even 2019 was edgy because you look at the state of the gameplay mechanics on SC and then you know this will take more than that otherwise SQ42 would be pushed with FPS/Flight Mechanics feeling raw.

    I have no idea how far could SC be from SQ42, that depends a lot on how much content will they want to add before release, how many solar systems, etc... Because as they need to finish the gameplay mechanics to release SQ42 that implies those mechanics will also be on late-dev by that time, so that's why I'm saying it depends on the amount of content they want to ship with.

    Does it bother you at all that they've spent the amount of money they have and have nothing close to a finished product?

    I don't remember any part of the crowdfunding campaign mentioning that they were crowdfunding to get to the point where they could grab an investor.  I thought the reasoning behind the extravagant cash CIG was accepting from backers was to avoid needing to sell up parts of the company and/or make commitments that leave them beholden to an investor like this.  What if the investor exercises their influence to pressure CIG on a certain issue, such as cutting scope back?  Would you be okay with that?

    image
  • Panther2103Panther2103 Member EpicPosts: 5,569
    I just think it's crazy, that the original plan was to start development in 2011, release a full game by 2014. It is now 2018, they are now pushing the non full version of their game to 2020 for BETA, and no end in sight for the SC launch. 

    9 Years to develop a beta for a non complete version of the game. This is literally going into the territory of longest development time. 
    MadFrenchie
  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member EpicPosts: 7,275
    edited December 2018
    ... moved
    Post edited by MaxBacon on
    MadFrenchie
  • AethaerynAethaeryn Member RarePosts: 3,104
    Well that is disappointing.  I still wish they had made a base game. .released it and added on after.  Do sequals or DLC.  it is a huge gamble to add all of the features etc. and everything relies on it all coming together. . still.

    Wa min God! Se æx on min heafod is!

  • rodarinrodarin Member EpicPosts: 2,576
    https://www.forbes.com/sites/mattperez/2018/12/20/billionaire-clive-calder-and-son-invest-46-million-in-studio-behind-crowdfunded-game-star-citizen/#2868855f1aad

    great article, they basically had 14 million left in the bank of the 210 million. So lets call the tech demo guys are playing in 200 million bucks. So awesome I cant stop laughing.

    I am not the guy...ahh shit who am I kidding...I TOLD YOU SO.

    So their 14 million and this guys 46 million they now have 60 million (two years worth of salaries). How does an investor curb future ship sales? I think it will be a lot. Of course the die hards will still throw money at it but I imagine the people who were living the dream wont.

    After reading everything I suspect that they will be all hands on deck to release SQ 42 (which I said should have been their priority three years ago.) However now, instead of using those sales to fund SC, I think those sales will go directly to pay off the guy who just basically bailed them out.

    I suspect they were much better at selling SQ 42 release (with all those famous actors voicing it) and said once we release that you will get your money back.

    But even so I suspect it was a wink and a nod and they made up a figure and called it a valuation and basically the guy really has nothing (because he doesnt) because as I said CIG has almost no assets. Guy is gambling, and more than likely the 46 million comes with a 75 or 100 million dollar pay back price tag (assuming SQ 42 is a success). Of course that wont make it into any press releases.
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,505
    MaxBacon said:
    Does it bother you at all that they've spent the amount of money they have and have nothing close to a finished product?

    I don't remember any part of the crowdfunding campaign mentioning that they were crowdfunding to get to the point where they could grab an investor.  I thought the reasoning behind the extravagant cash CIG was accepting from backers was to avoid needing to sell up parts of the company and/or make commitments that leave them beholden to an investor like this.  What if the investor exercises their influence to pressure CIG on a certain issue, such as cutting scope back?  Would you be okay with that?
    No, it's not news for me there's a reason why the crowdfund kept ongoing, they kept investing the money back into the company, hiring more, opening new studios, it was already admitted before the ongoing crowdfund sustains the ongoing operations at the scale that they are.

    Considering they retain 10% of the company I don't think they won't have any big influence, one thing is when the publisher who pretty much is 100% of either owning the studio or detaining the money the studio depends on, that is nowhere close the reality of CIG that retains control by having the crowdfund mean the vast majority of their income; the one with most money has the bigger voice, aka investments xD
    The question remains of whether this will be the last investment deal they make.  3 years is a long time, and the crowdfunding doesn't seem to have covered the ballooned costs of development CIG has created by scaling up to such a point.  And if they do, what caveats will they be willing to acquiesce to in order to secure the cash they need to finish the game?

    The entire idea of this project was to avoid the traditional funding and, so, avoid pressures from investors.  If they start taking on traditional investors, the biggest reason CR stated for taking all this money from gamers is moot and invalid.

    This is an interesting development.


    image
  • rodarinrodarin Member EpicPosts: 2,576
    MaxBacon said:
    Does it bother you at all that they've spent the amount of money they have and have nothing close to a finished product?

    I don't remember any part of the crowdfunding campaign mentioning that they were crowdfunding to get to the point where they could grab an investor.  I thought the reasoning behind the extravagant cash CIG was accepting from backers was to avoid needing to sell up parts of the company and/or make commitments that leave them beholden to an investor like this.  What if the investor exercises their influence to pressure CIG on a certain issue, such as cutting scope back?  Would you be okay with that?
    No, it's not news for me there's a reason why the crowdfund kept ongoing, they kept investing the money back into the company, hiring more, opening new studios, it was already admitted before the ongoing crowdfund sustains the ongoing operations at the scale that they are.

    Considering they retain 10% of the company I don't think they won't have any big influence, one thing is when the publisher who pretty much is 100% of either owning the studio or detaining the money the studio depends on, that is nowhere close the reality of CIG that retains control by having the crowdfund mean the vast majority of their income; the one with most money has the bigger voice, aka investments xD
    The question remains of whether this will be the last investment deal they make.  3 years is a long time, and the crowdfunding doesn't seem to have covered the ballooned costs of development CIG has created by scaling up to such a point.  And if they do, what caveats will they be willing to acquiesce to in order to secure the cash they need to finish the game?

    The entire idea of this project was to avoid the traditional funding and, so, avoid pressures from investors.  If they start taking on traditional investors, the biggest reason CR stated for taking all this money from gamers is moot and invalid.

    This is an interesting development.


    If the investor was smart, and he just might be. He would have had an exclusivity clause built in. Which means they wont be able to get investors or if they do HIS money is guaranteed first before any other investors get anything.

    Of course Roberts being what (I think he is) could still broker deals with the full intention of defaulting on everything in a desperate attempt to complete his vision.

    But I suspect these investors are all in on SQ 42 and more than likely have a  clause that says no one else other than no stake pledge givers can 'invest' in SQ 42. That would be what I would do. If I actually was willing to gamble on something like this. SQ 42 MIGHT be worth it if the incentives were enough. I laid out what I think would be enough.

    I would start at full recoup of my initial 46 million if they sell 2 million copies. (less than the number of 'citizens' they have.) Then I would graduate it it in comparison to other games. Ending with something like 5 million which is what GW 2 and a few other games sold which is basically a top 10 scenario I wold want 60 million. For 10 million sold I would want 75 million. If they outsold Minecraft at around 29 million and became the number one PC game of all time I would want 100 million. I might throw a 25 million in there for a safety net for 80 million.

    But really I Shouldnt be making up nonsense like that the reality of it all is entertaining enough.
  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member EpicPosts: 7,275
    edited December 2018
    ... moved
    Post edited by MaxBacon on
  • rodarinrodarin Member EpicPosts: 2,576
    edited December 2018
    MaxBacon said:
    The question remains of whether this will be the last investment deal they make.  3 years is a long time, and the crowdfunding doesn't seem to have covered the ballooned costs of development CIG has created by scaling up to such a point.  And if they do, what caveats will they be willing to acquiesce to in order to secure the cash they need to finish the game?

    The entire idea of this project was to avoid the traditional funding and, so, avoid pressures from investors.  If they start taking on traditional investors, the biggest reason CR stated for taking all this money from gamers is moot and invalid.

    This is an interesting development.
    Yes but we are talking about this year itself beating the record crowdfunding year, so that front is shown stable, that together with the 46 million extra... They don't really have much of a problem.

    They crowdfunded 43 million dollars in 2017 from all the sources, they show to have spent close to 49 million dollars.

    So their income is not off from the operative cost when you add this investment over it, then they have more than enough maneuverability with this investment in upcoming years.
    go read that Forbes article they had 14 million left of the 210 or so they had raised. They were running on fumes. this money was a complete and total bail out. More than likely going ot be a tax right off before its all said and done. But the guy could still win the lottery have SQ 42 make it to release and he gets his money back, and as I have outlined a incentive laden pay scale beyond that.


    FGrom the article:

    By the end of 2017, the company brought in a total of $207 million and had spent $193 million since 2012. Capital on hand at the end of 2017 fell 26% to $14 million from the prior year. Total income—made up from fan pledges, its subscription pass and fan events like its annual CitizenCon event—has been consistent the past three years, with the company bringing in $44 million in 2017.
  • rodarinrodarin Member EpicPosts: 2,576
    actually they were in the red this year for 5 million so they may have actually only had 9 million left as of right now (not counting ht 46 million)
  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member EpicPosts: 7,275
    edited December 2018
    ... moved
  • rodarinrodarin Member EpicPosts: 2,576
    OK I want to make the pig and rabbits head explode. What if they release SQ 42 on consoles first? Now THAT would be awesome. But would definitely make it easier for the investor(s) to get the money back.
  • rodarinrodarin Member EpicPosts: 2,576
    or better yet....mobile bwwahaahaaahaaa OK Ok I will stop I am killing myself here
  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member EpicPosts: 7,275
    edited December 2018
    My head isn't exploding you might want to drink some tea or something and read to room lol
  • PigozzPigozz Member UncommonPosts: 865
    edited December 2018
    rodarin said:

    FGrom the article:

    By the end of 2017, the company brought in a total of $207 million and had spent $193 million since 2012. Capital on hand at the end of 2017 fell 26% to $14 million from the prior year. Total income—made up from fan pledges, its subscription pass and fan events like its annual CitizenCon event—has been consistent the past three years, with the company bringing in $44 million in 2017.
    Wait...is this for real?
    Do they really have only $14 million to spent, with the 46millions going only into marketing?

    I want MaxBacon or Erilion confirm, its a simply yes/no question:

    Do they have right now $14 million for development and 46 for marketing? +-1million (to cut of any "we dont know exactly" BS excuses)

    Yes or no? 

    MMOs played chronologically:
    Runescape,Lineage II, WoW,Tabula Rasa, AoC,Eve Online,Guild Wars, Rift(beta only),SWTOR(beta only),Star Trek Online
    Most fun: Tabula Rasa
    image

  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member EpicPosts: 7,275
    edited December 2018
    Pigozz said:
    rodarin said:

    FGrom the article:

    By the end of 2017, the company brought in a total of $207 million and had spent $193 million since 2012. Capital on hand at the end of 2017 fell 26% to $14 million from the prior year. Total income—made up from fan pledges, its subscription pass and fan events like its annual CitizenCon event—has been consistent the past three years, with the company bringing in $44 million in 2017.
    Wait...is this for real?
    Do they really have only $14 million to spent, with the 46millions going only into marketing?

    I want MaxBacon or Erilion confirm, its a simply yes/no question:

    Do they have right now $14 million for development and 46 for marketing? +-1million (to cut of any "we dont know exactly" BS excuses)

    Yes or no? 

    The financials are here: https://cloudimperiumgames.com/blog/corporate/cfo-comment-2012-2017-financials

    It's on Cumulative Net Position, CIG uses the ongoing crowdfund to cover most of the operative cost, only keeping a cash reserve for costs beyond that income.

    Thread for this here: https://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/478267/cig-publishes-financials-for-years-2012-2017/p1
  • sgelsgel Member EpicPosts: 2,197
    Pigozz said:
    rodarin said:

    FGrom the article:

    By the end of 2017, the company brought in a total of $207 million and had spent $193 million since 2012. Capital on hand at the end of 2017 fell 26% to $14 million from the prior year. Total income—made up from fan pledges, its subscription pass and fan events like its annual CitizenCon event—has been consistent the past three years, with the company bringing in $44 million in 2017.
    Wait...is this for real?
    Do they really have only $14 million to spent, with the 46millions going only into marketing?

    I want MaxBacon or Erilion confirm, its a simply yes/no question:

    Do they have right now $14 million for development and 46 for marketing? +-1million (to cut of any "we dont know exactly" BS excuses)

    Yes or no? 

    I doubt anyone believes they need that 46million just for marketing 2 years before they release.
    I'm sure a lot have said they believe it :)

    ..Cake..

  • parrotpholkparrotpholk Member EpicPosts: 4,644
    rodarin said:
    MaxBacon said:
    The question remains of whether this will be the last investment deal they make.  3 years is a long time, and the crowdfunding doesn't seem to have covered the ballooned costs of development CIG has created by scaling up to such a point.  And if they do, what caveats will they be willing to acquiesce to in order to secure the cash they need to finish the game?

    The entire idea of this project was to avoid the traditional funding and, so, avoid pressures from investors.  If they start taking on traditional investors, the biggest reason CR stated for taking all this money from gamers is moot and invalid.

    This is an interesting development.
    Yes but we are talking about this year itself beating the record crowdfunding year, so that front is shown stable, that together with the 46 million extra... They don't really have much of a problem.

    They crowdfunded 43 million dollars in 2017 from all the sources, they show to have spent close to 49 million dollars.

    So their income is not off from the operative cost when you add this investment over it, then they have more than enough maneuverability with this investment in upcoming years.
    go read that Forbes article they had 14 million left of the 210 or so they had raised. They were running on fumes. this money was a complete and total bail out. More than likely going ot be a tax right off before its all said and done. But the guy could still win the lottery have SQ 42 make it to release and he gets his money back, and as I have outlined a incentive laden pay scale beyond that.


    FGrom the article:

    By the end of 2017, the company brought in a total of $207 million and had spent $193 million since 2012. Capital on hand at the end of 2017 fell 26% to $14 million from the prior year. Total income—made up from fan pledges, its subscription pass and fan events like its annual CitizenCon event—has been consistent the past three years, with the company bringing in $44 million in 2017.
    Here is the thing on the idea that a release will generate a ton of new revenue and that is all the backers already get the game for backing it.  Question is how many people out there are still left who would be interested in the game?  It is a niche market the space sim and they are going out of the way to make it as realistic and tedious as possible.  For a segment of the gaming population this is awesome and fulfills that fantasy as a kid of being in Star Wars or whatever.  

    I absolutely think it will sell copies but how many would be very interesting to see.  At the point of release all the backers become players and not revenue creators like they are now.
  • BabuinixBabuinix Member EpicPosts: 3,063
    edited December 2018
    Most backers already have Squadron 42 in their package but very few have included the 2nd episode (6$million reward) and there's also a 3rd episoded planned.
    Post edited by Babuinix on
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