Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

CIG publishes financials for years 2012 - 2017

124

Comments

  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member LegendaryPosts: 7,610
    Max, let's not act like the employees making up the company aren't making salaries.

    Even if they break even, that means the employees all profited.  That's one of the positives of the investor; now they have parties that actually do need to see a successful product to get theirs.
    We are not talking about individuals, we are talking about the company itself, the company as is bleeds money yearly because they as last year data shown had to spend 5-6 million out of reserves to cope with the costs.

    The point I was making against posts that is ignorant to this fact, is that the investors have nothing to profit on right now from their investment but the sale prospects of the title so they actually see a profit.
    MadFrenchie
  • RedempRedemp Member UncommonPosts: 1,136
    rodarin said:

    You all have this mental illness like all liberals and bleeding hearts...you all think you can SPEND your way out of problems. Its impossible, especially when you dont have the core self control to manage more funds than you needed in the first place.


    *Looks at Reagan* *Looks at Bush* *Looks at Trump* 

    Image result for you serious gif

    Sure let's pretend liberals are the only "spenders". 
    MadFrenchieBabuinixFlyByKnight
  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member LegendaryPosts: 7,610
    Redemp said:

    *Looks at Reagan* *Looks at Bush* *Looks at Trump* 

    Sure let's pretend liberals are the only "spenders". 
    I hate when they somehow manage to have a go at the SC fans by bringing up liberals, I sure hope not all SC "naysayers" over here are hard conservatives because that'd be weird.
  • sgelsgel Member EpicPosts: 2,197
    MaxBacon said:
    Redemp said:

    *Looks at Reagan* *Looks at Bush* *Looks at Trump* 

    Sure let's pretend liberals are the only "spenders". 
    I hate when they somehow manage to have a go at the SC fans by bringing up liberals, I sure hope not all SC "naysayers" over here are hard conservatives because that'd be weird.
    You should take a walk through the SA SC thread and see some of the quoted posts from the SC subreddit. Then you'll be surprised how many Trump fanatics and hardcore conservatives you'll be flying around with.


    rpmcmurphy

    ..Cake..

  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member LegendaryPosts: 7,610
    sgel said:
    MaxBacon said:
    Redemp said:

    *Looks at Reagan* *Looks at Bush* *Looks at Trump* 

    Sure let's pretend liberals are the only "spenders". 
    I hate when they somehow manage to have a go at the SC fans by bringing up liberals, I sure hope not all SC "naysayers" over here are hard conservatives because that'd be weird.
    You should take a walk through the SA SC thread and see some of the quoted posts from the SC subreddit. Then you'll be surprised how many Trump fanatics and hardcore conservatives you'll be flying around with.
    I don't pay attention to the crazy, but on this forum specifically, I've noticed multiple times posters having a go at the SC fans bringing it up with having a go at liberals as well.

    It's that and that implication (that is also one of the usual rodarin arguments) that SC fans here are bad persons because we supposedly don't support charities and spend all our money on virtual ships and such, such... cringe O_o
    Babuinix
  • sgelsgel Member EpicPosts: 2,197
    There's bad people and good people everywhere.
    Maybe stop behaving like children saying that all SC fans are bad and the other that all SC fans are good.

    You don't need to defend SC against every single claim.. just like other people don't need to shit on SC about every single thing.



    mmoloulaseritOctagon7711gervaise1

    ..Cake..

  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member LegendaryPosts: 7,610
    edited December 2018
    I'm don't bother much with that, just that when rodarin has to broadly throw jab at all fans here at every chance he gets just for the sake of vilification and ridicule. The lowest level of those examples are the "bad persons" and "I pity you" type of stupid arguments.

    Anyway, @parrotpholk from what I have noticed, there is a huge interest on SC beyond that space sim niche because SC focus gameplay on as on-foot as FPS as ship flight and dogfighting in a rather equal matter, FPS on SC is not secondary gameplay it's fully embedded into the game, and that is what manages to get SC burst the space sim niche bubble, and make it attractive to that more mainstream audience.

    They will have, however, to find a balance between the intended simulation and not being overwhelming to the more casual play.

    When I see around the web I see most people who check into SC do not own it yet, are waiting until it either releases or becomes more complete, so I'd have to say the prospect of sale of SC is big.

    Mind a sale of SC is not where the money is, is on the monetization model of the MMO once it gets to it, currently, they just fund ongoing dev operations.


    But the biggest prospect, is and will be SQ42, its cast alone is a colossal marketing point and if they are smart they'll also port to consoles and multiple potential sales, and this may be what the newest investors are aiming at. 
  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member LegendaryPosts: 7,610
    Max beyond the fact I give this project a ton of crap which I believe is justified and I have zero love for Roberts, I want to play the game and hope it does succeed.  I play on the free flight weekends and to this point it has been very hit or miss.  I think SQ42 is the more likely of the two titles to be big as I am not sure they will be able to balance the tedium in the MMO as I believe that CR sees this as a true living in space sim more than a game.  But hey people loved Microsoft Flight Simulator so shows what I know.

    I still think we are looking at least 450 million or a bit more just in development if they continue to expand staff and blow though money as they have been.  I do not remember the number he mentioned in the original pitch back in 2011 or whatever but I thought the dollar amount to bring these to market was much less.  They cannot however continue to operate in the red as they appear to now be doing just for development and if they continue to add investors then the pressure to release something...hell anything will start and the walls will close in on him.
    The vision CR always pushed was always on the lines of the virtual immersive universe where things happen and you decide what to do. It's both pushing on the simulation in one area, and the sandbox of its gameplay in the other.

    To hit the nail the game needs is to not be overwhelming and over-complex to people at the start and have a good learning curve, because I think the direction the game goes does open different types of play that appeal to different people, for example I'm bad a ship flight and dogfight so playing with my guild we're just sharing missions and FPS crew or manning turrets on multi-crew and earning money with it too, that is what to me is SC's biggest appeal, it can't be a daunting "solo" experience yet push on getting players together to add much more dynamic.

    The whole fear monger of peeps like rodarin is just stuff that makes no sense, the company as stated before would scale to income if they need to, and up until now they managed to sustain their scale even if on the red on past years, with the stable funding and comparing the gap on last year was 5-6 million they would just scale down some to adapt if they must, they have more maneuverability than typical game dev that plays with fixed budgets set by publisher.
  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 7,591
    sgel said:
    There's bad people and good people everywhere.
    Maybe stop behaving like children saying that all SC fans are bad and the other that all SC fans are good.

    You don't need to defend SC against every single claim.. just like other people don't need to shit on SC about every single thing.



    In a perfect world ;)

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • Octagon7711Octagon7711 Member LegendaryPosts: 8,996
    Wonder if this has to do with the court proceedings?  Either way, the backers better get to buying those ships if I'm reading it correctly.  They've exhausted almost half of the "buffered" crowdfunding income over the past 3 years, and it's my understanding that they don't even have all the features they wish to test in the alpha at this point.
    I recently read that full disclosure is needed by Canadian investors as it's the law up there.  Which would explain some things.

    "We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa      "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are."  SR Covey

  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member LegendaryPosts: 7,610
    Wonder if this has to do with the court proceedings?  Either way, the backers better get to buying those ships if I'm reading it correctly.  They've exhausted almost half of the "buffered" crowdfunding income over the past 3 years, and it's my understanding that they don't even have all the features they wish to test in the alpha at this point.
    I recently read that full disclosure is needed by Canadian investors as it's the law up there.  Which would explain some things.
    They are not Canadian. Neither CIG neither the investors, the entities involved show registered on California.
    Erillion
  • ArglebargleArglebargle Member EpicPosts: 3,167
    Erillion said:
    >>>
    He wasnt actually working there when it released was he?
    >>>

    Incorrect.


    Have fun


    PS:
    I think you confuse Wing Commander with Freelancer


    Chris Roberts worked at Origin Systems between 1989 and 1996

    Wing Commander released for MS-DOS on September 26, 1990

    Co-producer on Wing Commander?  Warren Spector.   I suspect he got brought on to get the thing out the door when Roberts couldn't.  I'll ask him next time I see him.

    If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.

  • ArglebargleArglebargle Member EpicPosts: 3,167
    MaxBacon said:
    Kefo said:
    MaxBacon said:
    Erillion said:
    Well, one of them made it into the Guiness Book of Records and one of the computer games Hall of Fame.

    The other ... didn't. 


    Have fun
    One HAS released a major successful hit on the genre when he was an employee with bosses over him to reign him in, that is what got him his name on gaming of course.
    Fixed it for ya lol
    No, you didn't, he had both WC that was his own creation all the way, the creation of that IP was his merit. And I really don't have to tell you this as you know it.
    Have you folks actually looked back at WC with any real critical eye not obscured by nostalgia goggles?   Story, characters, dialogue, situations were pure comfort food.  Not some brilliant innovation.   The villains, the kilrathi, are directly stolen from Larry Niven's kzinti; and in a way  like fresh chum, that would summon circling shark lawyers nowadays.   

    The conviction that 3D gaming would be extremely popular was the salient boundary pushed by Roberts.   Talking to someone who was at the very first WC team meeting, he recounted that Chris had been playing LucasArts WWII aircraft games and wanted to do one in space.  While he often gets credit for them, he didn't do Wing Commander 2, Privateer, Freelancer, Starlancer.  His filmed cut scenes in the later WC series were also an innovation of sorts.  But as WC the Movie showed, when in charge, his ability to deliver the goods was....less than perfect.   Not to mention the whole Digital Anvil debacle, something that I still suspect will end up similar to the final denouement for CIG.  
    KefoPhaserlightSlyLoK

    If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.

  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member LegendaryPosts: 7,610
    edited December 2018
    Have you folks actually looked back at WC with any real critical eye not obscured by nostalgia goggles?   Story, characters, dialogue, situations were pure comfort food.  Not some brilliant innovation.   The villains, the kilrathi, are directly stolen from Larry Niven's kzinti; and in a way  like fresh chum, that would summon circling shark lawyers nowadays.   

    The conviction that 3D gaming would be extremely popular was the salient boundary pushed by Roberts.   Talking to someone who was at the very first WC team meeting, he recounted that Chris had been playing LucasArts WWII aircraft games and wanted to do one in space.  While he often gets credit for them, he didn't do Wing Commander 2, Privateer, Freelancer, Starlancer.  His filmed cut scenes in the later WC series were also an innovation of sorts.  But as WC the Movie showed, when in charge, his ability to deliver the goods was....less than perfect.   Not to mention the whole Digital Anvil debacle, something that I still suspect will end up similar to the final denouement for CIG.  
    I don't even bother enough about this petty argumentation aimed at attacking CR career in every way possible, I'll leave you to go down that rabbit hole with someone else to bother enough to feed you on this.

    Your opinions be your opinions ofc. But CR is the creator of WC IP, it exists because of him, and what he invested on back then earned him merits of have pushed the cinematic story-telling on a game like that. That is just history, so is and will be SC either way that goes.
  • Octagon7711Octagon7711 Member LegendaryPosts: 8,996
    MaxBacon said:
    Wonder if this has to do with the court proceedings?  Either way, the backers better get to buying those ships if I'm reading it correctly.  They've exhausted almost half of the "buffered" crowdfunding income over the past 3 years, and it's my understanding that they don't even have all the features they wish to test in the alpha at this point.
    I recently read that full disclosure is needed by Canadian investors as it's the law up there.  Which would explain some things.
    They are not Canadian. Neither CIG neither the investors, the entities involved show registered on California.
    Ah, thanks for the correction.  I got the law requirement thing from here but it didn't say anything about them being Canadian.  Don't know where that came from.

    While the decision to release the company’s UK and U.S. financials on Thursday was driven in part by news of the new investment, Roberts said that the company has been releasing financials for the UK side of the business since the company opened offices there, a requirement under UK law.
    https://variety.com/2018/gaming/news/star-citizen-cloud-imperium-games-valuation-1203093999/

    "We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa      "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are."  SR Covey

  • ArglebargleArglebargle Member EpicPosts: 3,167
    MaxBacon said:
    Have you folks actually looked back at WC with any real critical eye not obscured by nostalgia goggles?   Story, characters, dialogue, situations were pure comfort food.  Not some brilliant innovation.   The villains, the kilrathi, are directly stolen from Larry Niven's kzinti; and in a way  like fresh chum, that would summon circling shark lawyers nowadays.   

    The conviction that 3D gaming would be extremely popular was the salient boundary pushed by Roberts.   Talking to someone who was at the very first WC team meeting, he recounted that Chris had been playing LucasArts WWII aircraft games and wanted to do one in space.  While he often gets credit for them, he didn't do Wing Commander 2, Privateer, Freelancer, Starlancer.  His filmed cut scenes in the later WC series were also an innovation of sorts.  But as WC the Movie showed, when in charge, his ability to deliver the goods was....less than perfect.   Not to mention the whole Digital Anvil debacle, something that I still suspect will end up similar to the final denouement for CIG.  
    I don't even bother enough about this petty argumentation aimed at attacking CR career in every way possible, I'll leave you to go down that rabbit hole with someone else to bother enough to feed you on this.

    Your opinions be your opinions ofc. But CR is the creator of WC IP, it exists because of him, and what he invested on back then earned him merits of have pushed the cinematic story-telling on a game like that. That is just history, so is and will be SC either way that goes.
    You hold this idealized vision of how things worked, past, present, and future.   I talk to people who worked with Roberts in the past.  They were there.  Present and future are up to question, but it does not appear to me that the fellow in question has changed his stripes.  For you, a positive note.  For me, a warning sign.  

    And, oh, I would love to see the financials from Digital Anvil.   

    If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.

  • strykr619strykr619 Member UncommonPosts: 282
    rodarin said:
    And they sold 10% to and investor for 46 million  and they released the SQ 42 roadmap. No wonder the fanbois havent posted nay of this.

    Project is now officially swirling down the drain at this point.

    Whenever ANY 'indie' developer adds an investor (whether they want to spin it as marketing or not) theyre done. And why would they need to sell 10% for 46 million when they have raised over 210 million?

    SQ 42 roadmap is also gold. Its at least 3 years away from release by their best guess estimates.

    Really cant make this stuff up.
    Swirling down the drain? Um they have an actual playable client , you act as if its vaporware when they have actual running builds. Clearly they have a rabid fan base and have their own goals. Your just starting to sound salty at this point. 

    Oh fyi i've only done the base $50 pledge and feel no need to purchase any further. Let the game flesh out I have no problem at all waiting .
    BabuinixPhaserlight
  • strykr619strykr619 Member UncommonPosts: 282
    If I was a VC I'd throw money at this because the return is great. The cult members with disposable income are growing and the others are ideological dummies who will press on regardless of logic. It's generated almost a quarter billion dollars and will continue to. It's powered by stupid and there's enough stupid to push this thing to half a billy or more.

    Investor money doesn't get lumped in with the stupids money. Investor dollars get to profit off of the stupids money.

    I actually believe this game will release now, don't know when but it will. Will it release per anything they've said? No, but who cares? The most brilliant thing about this project isn't the game, it's the ruse. CIG should do an ICO while they're at it.
    Someone gets it. This is pretty much going to be a printing press when its all said and done, they bluffed their way into actually making a working product (aka they bluffed with the vision people bought it and they were able to eventually start matching the tech for their vision). 

    They went from a vaporware fraud to a working model LOL. It was a risky gamble. 
  • DurzaxDurzax Member UncommonPosts: 87
    Ah, yes the rampant and feavorish Lamentations of the yearly year end CIG bashings.
    All, the more hilarious, do to the fact that 2018 has been a record breaking year.
    It is okay goons maybe next year you will crash it for real, hahahahahahahaha.
    Yeah, best of luck with that.
    rpmcmurphyBabuinixNorseGod
  • FlyByKnightFlyByKnight Member EpicPosts: 3,967
    MaxBacon said:
    @FlyByKnight another post out of ignorance... Go check the financials here: https://cloudimperiumgames.com/blog/corporate/cfo-comment-2012-2017-financials

    The operative costs of the company are higher than their yearly income, there is no monetary return for investors to cash in, the invested money would just strengthen the money reserves that they have, last year they had to use 5-6 million of that money to cover the 2017 operative cost.

    Investors don't make money because the company technically is not making money, it would if they kept costs under the income. That makes it so the investment is falling over positive sale prospects of the game, specifically SQ42.
    Are you obtuse naturally or working? A venture capitalists purpose is to make money on their investment. The numb nuts who spent $5K on spaceships for a game that "isn't done yet" version 3.9.1.25.A.B Alpha Closed Test Patron Server don't.

    Whatever this elaborate unfinished cluster bomb is, it's generating absurd amounts of coin off of literal space cadets. So explain the ignorance of me saying that.

    What? You don't like knowing the fact that goofies w/ disposable income are the commodity not some slow paced space sim from a dev operating at a loss (according to you). CIG is a religion/mega church now. They could release unfinished, or some reneged version and you all will be right here twisting yourselves into pretzels to lamb-splain it.

    Chris Roberts is the Jimmy Swaggart of PC gaming now. Doesn't matter if the product is real or not. $$$$$$$$$$$$



    MaxBacon
    "As far as the forum code of conduct, I would think it's a bit outdated and in need of a refre *CLOSED*" 

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member LegendaryPosts: 7,610
    edited December 2018
    Are you obtuse naturally or working? A venture capitalists purpose is to make money on their investment. The numb nuts who spent $5K on spaceships for a game that "isn't done yet" version 3.9.1.25.A.B Alpha Closed Test Patron Server don't.

    Whatever this elaborate unfinished cluster bomb is, it's generating absurd amounts of coin off of literal space cadets. So explain the ignorance of me saying that.

    What? You don't like knowing the fact that goofies w/ disposable income are the commodity not some slow paced space sim from a dev operating at a loss (according to you). CIG is a religion/mega church now. They could release unfinished, or some reneged version and you all will be right here twisting yourselves into pretzels to lamb-splain it.

    Chris Roberts is the Jimmy Swaggart of PC gaming now. Doesn't matter if the product is real or not. $$$$$$$$$$$$

    You're the one being obtuse it seems, of course vc will want to make money, they just won't be making money out of the thing you were implying, the company financials are clear, they do not make a profit out of the crowdfund, in fact, they run on the red these past years because operative costs are higher than income.

    So the implying any investor would jump at this to get a piece of the action is just out of ignorance to the financial facts of the company. Making it so the investment can only profit on future prospects of sales, they need to earn more than what they spend, that is the moment there is actual profit and such has not happened yet.
  • cylon8cylon8 Member UncommonPosts: 362
    the only reason this happened is because they were sued
    ErillionNorseGod

    so say we all

  • KefoKefo Member EpicPosts: 4,229
    MaxBacon said:
    Are you obtuse naturally or working? A venture capitalists purpose is to make money on their investment. The numb nuts who spent $5K on spaceships for a game that "isn't done yet" version 3.9.1.25.A.B Alpha Closed Test Patron Server don't.

    Whatever this elaborate unfinished cluster bomb is, it's generating absurd amounts of coin off of literal space cadets. So explain the ignorance of me saying that.

    What? You don't like knowing the fact that goofies w/ disposable income are the commodity not some slow paced space sim from a dev operating at a loss (according to you). CIG is a religion/mega church now. They could release unfinished, or some reneged version and you all will be right here twisting yourselves into pretzels to lamb-splain it.

    Chris Roberts is the Jimmy Swaggart of PC gaming now. Doesn't matter if the product is real or not. $$$$$$$$$$$$

    You're the one being obtuse it seems, of course vc will want to make money, they just won't be making money out of the thing you were implying, the company financials are clear, they do not make a profit out of the crowdfund, in fact, they run on the red these past years because operative costs are higher than income.

    So the implying any investor would jump at this to get a piece of the action is just out of ignorance to the financial facts of the company. Making it so the investment can only profit on future prospects of sales, they need to earn more than what they spend, that is the moment there is actual profit and such has not happened yet.
    You forget they could probably liquidate the company and the VC would get all their money back and then some. And article 12 of their company sounds like CR is on a short leash
  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member LegendaryPosts: 7,610
    edited December 2018
    Kefo said:
    You forget they could probably liquidate the company and the VC would get all their money back and then some. And article 12 of their company sounds like CR is on a short leash
    I'm not forgetting anything, that being speculative doom talk over breaching the agreements set with investors. As investments are not loans they do still have their securities and agreements especially to ensure that is mostly the accountability over any misuse of investment money.

    As in terms of what is present fact, the 46 million investment and the fact the company is not earning proper profit as its operative cost is over their income, the investors are not investing to take a piece of a pie that doesn't really exist right now (if they crowdfund 30 million and have to pay 30 million in salaries the investors are not seeing that money), yet can only on future prospects when the company actually starts making money.

    I once said likely 2 years or so ago and I think it was with you and you lol'd at me then, that if they were smart they would get SQ42 behind publishers or investors to sustain a large marketing campaign behind it, up to even a console port, and one in I think the other will come to be as well.
    Post edited by MaxBacon on
  • TheocritusTheocritus Member LegendaryPosts: 9,267
    It does surprise me though that more people arent a little leary of this with that much money involved and no release 6 years later.
    NorseGod
Sign In or Register to comment.