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New event / cash grab

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  • ChildoftheShadowsChildoftheShadows Member RarePosts: 909
    edited December 2018

    What I think is the prime example of a cash grab in MMO form is when you have a template for something and you spit out variations With minute differences. Korean MMOs seem to fit the bill pretty well as those companies can churn out a "new" one every week.
    You mean kind of how they used the template from the Links of Elyria event to create this "Raiders of the Lost Vault" event?  This event fits your description to a T.

    The only real difference is that now they have "enhanced" the template to allow you to directly buy lootboxes and they stripped out the "classes".     Yay for progress!

    With the exception that they are fundraising for the development of the game. Do keep in mind that I am not invested in any current games ATM and never for once thought CoE would see the light of day. I'm just advocating that when people have discussions they use correct terminology as it makes a huge difference in how the conversation goes.

    Like I said before, if the game doesn't come to fruition and it's been established that development never really started (e.g. Greedmonger), then it's a scam.
    It is a cash grab by the definition of the term.  The purpose for raising the money doesn't come into play.

    Road to hell is paved with good intentions, and all that.
    Of course it does. If someone is creating something for the sole purpose to make money then it's a cash grab. If making money is a means to do what the love, it's not.

    Is this developer doing this solely for the profits?
    It really doesn't, though.

    If a church advertises a fundraiser selling, let's say....  Quality canvas bags at the price of $60 per bag, then delivers a garbage nylon version instead, it still qualifies even if the church had proof that raising the money would resurrect the real Jesus Christ himself.  It was an unprincipled way to bring in money with as little effort and resources possible.
    That's a scam.
    Also, by definition, a cash grab.  It's unprincipled, it's an attempt to make money, and it's an attempt to do so by using as little effort/resources as possible.

    It can be both.  They aren't mutually exclusive.
    You're getting way of point anyway. What coe is doing with this, at this point, is not a cash grab. You'll still disagree I'm sure, but it doesn't change it.
  • UngoodUngood Member EpicPosts: 2,315
    Ungood said:
    It's listed the same on the Oxford dictionary site, as well as Wikipedia (for what that's worth).

    Seems as legitimate a definition as one given by a random forum poster.  Even moreso?
    I'll wait while you link me "Cash Grab" from the Oxford Dictionary Site or maybe link Wikipedia... I'd like to see that as well.

    For the record, I posted the Wiktionary definition.

    Which is a lot more valid then some random forum poster saying "my pocket dictionary it says" or talking about sites that I know don't have the info... 
    Oxford just lists it as "money grab":

    https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/us/money_grab

    "NOUN
    informal 
    • An undignified or unprincipled acquisition of a large sum of money with little effort."



    Wiktionary is Wikipedia's dictionary sister site.  You're talking semantics.

    And if you paid attention, you would have seen that Wiktionary, directly uses the term "profit" not simply "money" and also uses the Term Cash Grab.

    Anyway.. lets go with this one.. well.. anyone watching this drama festival unfold can tell that Caspian is undoubtedly putting a shit ton of effort regarding this.. so.. it does not fit the definition of "Money Grab" that you have provided.

    So you would be wrong to use the Term "Cash Grab"/"Money Grab"

    But hey.. this is the group of people that call anything they don't like P2W. So.. screwing up other terms comes as a surprise to no one.
    Kyleran
    Currently Playing Eternal Crusade, because no matter who wins, a bunch of cheaters lost.
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,096
    Ungood said:
    Ungood said:
    It's listed the same on the Oxford dictionary site, as well as Wikipedia (for what that's worth).

    Seems as legitimate a definition as one given by a random forum poster.  Even moreso?
    I'll wait while you link me "Cash Grab" from the Oxford Dictionary Site or maybe link Wikipedia... I'd like to see that as well.

    For the record, I posted the Wiktionary definition.

    Which is a lot more valid then some random forum poster saying "my pocket dictionary it says" or talking about sites that I know don't have the info... 
    Oxford just lists it as "money grab":

    https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/us/money_grab

    "NOUN
    informal 
    • An undignified or unprincipled acquisition of a large sum of money with little effort."



    Wiktionary is Wikipedia's dictionary sister site.  You're talking semantics.

    And if you paid attention, you would have seen that Wiktionary, directly uses the term "profit" not simply "money" and also uses the Term Cash Grab.

    Anyway.. lets go with this one.. well.. anyone watching this drama festival unfold can tell that Caspian is undoubtedly putting a shit ton of effort regarding this.. so.. it does not fit the definition of "Money Grab" that you have provided.

    So you would be wrong to use the Term "Cash Grab"/"Money Grab"

    But hey.. this is the group of people that call anything they don't like P2W. So.. screwing up other terms comes as a surprise to no one.
    Compared to, y'know, actually creating the MMORPG he keeps describing....  No, he isn't putting a "shit ton" of effort into it.

    image
  • AnOldFartAnOldFart Member UncommonPosts: 301
    What I think is the prime example of a cash grab in MMO form is when you have a template for something and you spit out variations With minute differences. Korean MMOs seem to fit the bill pretty well as those companies can churn out a "new" one every week.
    You mean kind of how they used the template from the Links of Elyria event to create this "Raiders of the Lost Vault" event?  This event fits your description to a T.

    The only real difference is that now they have "enhanced" the template to allow you to directly buy lootboxes and they stripped out the "classes".     Yay for progress!

    With the exception that they are fundraising for the development of the game. Do keep in mind that I am not invested in any current games ATM and never for once thought CoE would see the light of day. I'm just advocating that when people have discussions they use correct terminology as it makes a huge difference in how the conversation goes.

    Like I said before, if the game doesn't come to fruition and it's been established that development never really started (e.g. Greedmonger), then it's a scam.
    It is a cash grab by the definition of the term.  The purpose for raising the money doesn't come into play.

    Road to hell is paved with good intentions, and all that.
    Think back to when they announced how their SoulPacks would work and how some Harbingers pointed out (on here and other sites) that they were in essence loot boxes and would lead to more loot boxes.

    Some very vocal defenders were quite forceful in explaining that they were NOTHING like loot boxes and that loot boxes would be against everything the game stood for.

    Fast forward to today:  Yes another prediction has come true... loot boxes are here... and those same vocal defenders are silent.  I guess, to go along with your comment... they feel that the ends justify the means and seem happy to sell their souls (and soul packs) as long as they can keep the dream alive.


    Not all are silent... 

    This is loot boxes, loot boxes I tell ya
    Slapshot1188Wellspring
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 32,279
    Ungood said:
    Ungood said:
    It's listed the same on the Oxford dictionary site, as well as Wikipedia (for what that's worth).

    Seems as legitimate a definition as one given by a random forum poster.  Even moreso?
    I'll wait while you link me "Cash Grab" from the Oxford Dictionary Site or maybe link Wikipedia... I'd like to see that as well.

    For the record, I posted the Wiktionary definition.

    Which is a lot more valid then some random forum poster saying "my pocket dictionary it says" or talking about sites that I know don't have the info... 
    Oxford just lists it as "money grab":

    https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/us/money_grab

    "NOUN
    informal 
    • An undignified or unprincipled acquisition of a large sum of money with little effort."



    Wiktionary is Wikipedia's dictionary sister site.  You're talking semantics.

    And if you paid attention, you would have seen that Wiktionary, directly uses the term "profit" not simply "money" and also uses the Term Cash Grab.

    Anyway.. lets go with this one.. well.. anyone watching this drama festival unfold can tell that Caspian is undoubtedly putting a shit ton of effort regarding this.. so.. it does not fit the definition of "Money Grab" that you have provided.

    So you would be wrong to use the Term "Cash Grab"/"Money Grab"

    But hey.. this is the group of people that call anything they don't like P2W. So.. screwing up other terms comes as a surprise to no one.
    Compared to, y'know, actually creating the MMORPG he keeps describing....  No, he isn't putting a "shit ton" of effort into it.
    Quite honestly there is no way to tell really if he and his team have been hard at work, or just spending their days enjoying the "three B's" since we''ve not seen much nor has there been any financial reporting.

    Scam or not, can't be sure, but if true he certainly has put a ton of effort into maintaining it, far more than the Greedmonger folks and can be commended (*) at least for that.

    (*) In an evil, hall of shame manner, like the famous charlatans before him

    :D




    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,096
    Kyleran said:
    Ungood said:
    Ungood said:
    It's listed the same on the Oxford dictionary site, as well as Wikipedia (for what that's worth).

    Seems as legitimate a definition as one given by a random forum poster.  Even moreso?
    I'll wait while you link me "Cash Grab" from the Oxford Dictionary Site or maybe link Wikipedia... I'd like to see that as well.

    For the record, I posted the Wiktionary definition.

    Which is a lot more valid then some random forum poster saying "my pocket dictionary it says" or talking about sites that I know don't have the info... 
    Oxford just lists it as "money grab":

    https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/us/money_grab

    "NOUN
    informal 
    • An undignified or unprincipled acquisition of a large sum of money with little effort."



    Wiktionary is Wikipedia's dictionary sister site.  You're talking semantics.

    And if you paid attention, you would have seen that Wiktionary, directly uses the term "profit" not simply "money" and also uses the Term Cash Grab.

    Anyway.. lets go with this one.. well.. anyone watching this drama festival unfold can tell that Caspian is undoubtedly putting a shit ton of effort regarding this.. so.. it does not fit the definition of "Money Grab" that you have provided.

    So you would be wrong to use the Term "Cash Grab"/"Money Grab"

    But hey.. this is the group of people that call anything they don't like P2W. So.. screwing up other terms comes as a surprise to no one.
    Compared to, y'know, actually creating the MMORPG he keeps describing....  No, he isn't putting a "shit ton" of effort into it.
    Quite honestly there is no way to tell really if he and his team have been hard at work, or just spending their days enjoying the "three B's" since we''ve not seen much nor has there been any financial reporting.

    Scam or not, can't be sure, but if true he certainly has put a ton of effort into maintaining it, far more than the Greedmonger folks and can be commended (*) at least for that.

    (*) In an evil, hall of shame manner, like the famous charlatans before him

    :D




    If I am not mistaken, Greedmonger actually had gameplay footage to show.

    If he's worked hard trying to devise ways to collect more money for unfulfilled promises, that means nothing.  Less than nothing.  Worse than being lazy about developing the actual product but still at least making noticeable progress.

    image
  • UngoodUngood Member EpicPosts: 2,315
    Ungood said:
    Ungood said:
    It's listed the same on the Oxford dictionary site, as well as Wikipedia (for what that's worth).

    Seems as legitimate a definition as one given by a random forum poster.  Even moreso?
    I'll wait while you link me "Cash Grab" from the Oxford Dictionary Site or maybe link Wikipedia... I'd like to see that as well.

    For the record, I posted the Wiktionary definition.

    Which is a lot more valid then some random forum poster saying "my pocket dictionary it says" or talking about sites that I know don't have the info... 
    Oxford just lists it as "money grab":

    https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/us/money_grab

    "NOUN
    informal 
    • An undignified or unprincipled acquisition of a large sum of money with little effort."



    Wiktionary is Wikipedia's dictionary sister site.  You're talking semantics.

    And if you paid attention, you would have seen that Wiktionary, directly uses the term "profit" not simply "money" and also uses the Term Cash Grab.

    Anyway.. lets go with this one.. well.. anyone watching this drama festival unfold can tell that Caspian is undoubtedly putting a shit ton of effort regarding this.. so.. it does not fit the definition of "Money Grab" that you have provided.

    So you would be wrong to use the Term "Cash Grab"/"Money Grab"

    But hey.. this is the group of people that call anything they don't like P2W. So.. screwing up other terms comes as a surprise to no one.
    Compared to, y'know, actually creating the MMORPG he keeps describing....  No, he isn't putting a "shit ton" of effort into it.
    No.. no.. No.. no..

    You don't suddenly get to pull qualifiers out of your ass and make up whatever like..That Does't stop gamers from doing it however.

    Hence this asinine discussion of people not knowing how to use common words and phrases.

    So.. again.. Sorting "Cash Grab" into that fun little category of phrases that Gamers can't use correctly... oh look.. the list is slowly growing.
    Currently Playing Eternal Crusade, because no matter who wins, a bunch of cheaters lost.
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,096
    Ungood said:
    Ungood said:
    Ungood said:
    It's listed the same on the Oxford dictionary site, as well as Wikipedia (for what that's worth).

    Seems as legitimate a definition as one given by a random forum poster.  Even moreso?
    I'll wait while you link me "Cash Grab" from the Oxford Dictionary Site or maybe link Wikipedia... I'd like to see that as well.

    For the record, I posted the Wiktionary definition.

    Which is a lot more valid then some random forum poster saying "my pocket dictionary it says" or talking about sites that I know don't have the info... 
    Oxford just lists it as "money grab":

    https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/us/money_grab

    "NOUN
    informal 
    • An undignified or unprincipled acquisition of a large sum of money with little effort."



    Wiktionary is Wikipedia's dictionary sister site.  You're talking semantics.

    And if you paid attention, you would have seen that Wiktionary, directly uses the term "profit" not simply "money" and also uses the Term Cash Grab.

    Anyway.. lets go with this one.. well.. anyone watching this drama festival unfold can tell that Caspian is undoubtedly putting a shit ton of effort regarding this.. so.. it does not fit the definition of "Money Grab" that you have provided.

    So you would be wrong to use the Term "Cash Grab"/"Money Grab"

    But hey.. this is the group of people that call anything they don't like P2W. So.. screwing up other terms comes as a surprise to no one.
    Compared to, y'know, actually creating the MMORPG he keeps describing....  No, he isn't putting a "shit ton" of effort into it.
    No.. no.. No.. no..

    You don't suddenly get to pull qualifiers out of your ass and make up whatever like..That Does't stop gamers from doing it however.

    Hence this asinine discussion of people not knowing how to use common words and phrases.

    So.. again.. Sorting "Cash Grab" into that fun little category of phrases that Gamers can't use correctly... oh look.. the list is slowly growing.
    I am not wasting my time engaging your willful ignorance and warped logic.

    He supposedly has a team of folks.  Running a fucking fundraising event isn't hard for a team of folks, and definitely isn't praiee-worthy.
    Slapshot1188Kyleran

    image
  • UngoodUngood Member EpicPosts: 2,315
    Ungood said:
    Ungood said:
    Ungood said:
    It's listed the same on the Oxford dictionary site, as well as Wikipedia (for what that's worth).

    Seems as legitimate a definition as one given by a random forum poster.  Even moreso?
    I'll wait while you link me "Cash Grab" from the Oxford Dictionary Site or maybe link Wikipedia... I'd like to see that as well.

    For the record, I posted the Wiktionary definition.

    Which is a lot more valid then some random forum poster saying "my pocket dictionary it says" or talking about sites that I know don't have the info... 
    Oxford just lists it as "money grab":

    https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/us/money_grab

    "NOUN
    informal 
    • An undignified or unprincipled acquisition of a large sum of money with little effort."



    Wiktionary is Wikipedia's dictionary sister site.  You're talking semantics.

    And if you paid attention, you would have seen that Wiktionary, directly uses the term "profit" not simply "money" and also uses the Term Cash Grab.

    Anyway.. lets go with this one.. well.. anyone watching this drama festival unfold can tell that Caspian is undoubtedly putting a shit ton of effort regarding this.. so.. it does not fit the definition of "Money Grab" that you have provided.

    So you would be wrong to use the Term "Cash Grab"/"Money Grab"

    But hey.. this is the group of people that call anything they don't like P2W. So.. screwing up other terms comes as a surprise to no one.
    Compared to, y'know, actually creating the MMORPG he keeps describing....  No, he isn't putting a "shit ton" of effort into it.
    No.. no.. No.. no..

    You don't suddenly get to pull qualifiers out of your ass and make up whatever like..That Does't stop gamers from doing it however.

    Hence this asinine discussion of people not knowing how to use common words and phrases.

    So.. again.. Sorting "Cash Grab" into that fun little category of phrases that Gamers can't use correctly... oh look.. the list is slowly growing.
    I am not wasting my time engaging your willful ignorance and warped logic.

    He supposedly has a team of folks.  Running a fucking fundraising event isn't hard for a team of folks, and definitely isn't praiee-worthy.
    BING BING BING.. we have a winner.. a fundraising event

    I knew you all could figure it out if you were not being willfully obtuse.
    Currently Playing Eternal Crusade, because no matter who wins, a bunch of cheaters lost.
  • AnOldFartAnOldFart Member UncommonPosts: 301
    Ungood said:
    Ungood said:
    Ungood said:
    It's listed the same on the Oxford dictionary site, as well as Wikipedia (for what that's worth).

    Seems as legitimate a definition as one given by a random forum poster.  Even moreso?
    I'll wait while you link me "Cash Grab" from the Oxford Dictionary Site or maybe link Wikipedia... I'd like to see that as well.

    For the record, I posted the Wiktionary definition.

    Which is a lot more valid then some random forum poster saying "my pocket dictionary it says" or talking about sites that I know don't have the info... 
    Oxford just lists it as "money grab":

    https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/us/money_grab

    "NOUN
    informal 
    • An undignified or unprincipled acquisition of a large sum of money with little effort."



    Wiktionary is Wikipedia's dictionary sister site.  You're talking semantics.

    And if you paid attention, you would have seen that Wiktionary, directly uses the term "profit" not simply "money" and also uses the Term Cash Grab.

    Anyway.. lets go with this one.. well.. anyone watching this drama festival unfold can tell that Caspian is undoubtedly putting a shit ton of effort regarding this.. so.. it does not fit the definition of "Money Grab" that you have provided.

    So you would be wrong to use the Term "Cash Grab"/"Money Grab"

    But hey.. this is the group of people that call anything they don't like P2W. So.. screwing up other terms comes as a surprise to no one.
    Compared to, y'know, actually creating the MMORPG he keeps describing....  No, he isn't putting a "shit ton" of effort into it.
    No.. no.. No.. no..

    You don't suddenly get to pull qualifiers out of your ass and make up whatever like..That Does't stop gamers from doing it however.

    Hence this asinine discussion of people not knowing how to use common words and phrases.

    So.. again.. Sorting "Cash Grab" into that fun little category of phrases that Gamers can't use correctly... oh look.. the list is slowly growing.
    I am not wasting my time engaging your willful ignorance and warped logic.

    He supposedly has a team of folks.  Running a fucking fundraising event isn't hard for a team of folks, and definitely isn't praiee-worthy.
    I would just stop replying to him, I gave up arguing semantics with him along time ago, he is one of these has to be right people 
    MadFrenchieSlapshot1188Mendel
  • UngoodUngood Member EpicPosts: 2,315
    AnOldFart said:
    Ungood said:
    Ungood said:
    Ungood said:
    It's listed the same on the Oxford dictionary site, as well as Wikipedia (for what that's worth).

    Seems as legitimate a definition as one given by a random forum poster.  Even moreso?
    I'll wait while you link me "Cash Grab" from the Oxford Dictionary Site or maybe link Wikipedia... I'd like to see that as well.

    For the record, I posted the Wiktionary definition.

    Which is a lot more valid then some random forum poster saying "my pocket dictionary it says" or talking about sites that I know don't have the info... 
    Oxford just lists it as "money grab":

    https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/us/money_grab

    "NOUN
    informal 
    • An undignified or unprincipled acquisition of a large sum of money with little effort."



    Wiktionary is Wikipedia's dictionary sister site.  You're talking semantics.

    And if you paid attention, you would have seen that Wiktionary, directly uses the term "profit" not simply "money" and also uses the Term Cash Grab.

    Anyway.. lets go with this one.. well.. anyone watching this drama festival unfold can tell that Caspian is undoubtedly putting a shit ton of effort regarding this.. so.. it does not fit the definition of "Money Grab" that you have provided.

    So you would be wrong to use the Term "Cash Grab"/"Money Grab"

    But hey.. this is the group of people that call anything they don't like P2W. So.. screwing up other terms comes as a surprise to no one.
    Compared to, y'know, actually creating the MMORPG he keeps describing....  No, he isn't putting a "shit ton" of effort into it.
    No.. no.. No.. no..

    You don't suddenly get to pull qualifiers out of your ass and make up whatever like..That Does't stop gamers from doing it however.

    Hence this asinine discussion of people not knowing how to use common words and phrases.

    So.. again.. Sorting "Cash Grab" into that fun little category of phrases that Gamers can't use correctly... oh look.. the list is slowly growing.
    I am not wasting my time engaging your willful ignorance and warped logic.

    He supposedly has a team of folks.  Running a fucking fundraising event isn't hard for a team of folks, and definitely isn't praiee-worthy.
    I would just stop replying to him, I gave up arguing semantics with him along time ago, he is one of these has to be right people 
    I don't have to be right, you're just wrong.
    Currently Playing Eternal Crusade, because no matter who wins, a bunch of cheaters lost.
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,096
    edited December 2018
    When he's supposed to be making an MMORPG.  Ignore it all you like.


    He's way late and has shit to show except stupidly complex plans for "mini-game" events that are literally just ways to get people to blow more money on screenshots and bullshit design docs.

    Maybe he should focus all that strenuous effort you claim he's putting into these fundraiser events into actually making the game he promised, instead.  Backers are generally more willing to throw you money if you have literally anything of substance to show for it.


    image
  • VrikaVrika Member EpicPosts: 5,375
    Vrika said:
    What I think is the prime example of a cash grab in MMO form is when you have a template for something and you spit out variations With minute differences. Korean MMOs seem to fit the bill pretty well as those companies can churn out a "new" one every week.
    You mean kind of how they used the template from the Links of Elyria event to create this "Raiders of the Lost Vault" event?  This event fits your description to a T.

    The only real difference is that now they have "enhanced" the template to allow you to directly buy lootboxes and they stripped out the "classes".     Yay for progress!

    With the exception that they are fundraising for the development of the game. Do keep in mind that I am not invested in any current games ATM and never for once thought CoE would see the light of day. I'm just advocating that when people have discussions they use correct terminology as it makes a huge difference in how the conversation goes.

    Like I said before, if the game doesn't come to fruition and it's been established that development never really started (e.g. Greedmonger), then it's a scam.
    It is a cash grab by the definition of the term.  The purpose for raising the money doesn't come into play.

    Road to hell is paved with good intentions, and all that.
    Of course it does. If someone is creating something for the sole purpose to make money then it's a cash grab. If making money is a means to do what the love, it's not.

    Is this developer doing this solely for the profits?
    If a poor single mother works long days as a cleaner to support his family despite hating the job, then by your definition she's committing a cash grab.

    But if someone loves running a ponzi scheme then he's not committing a cash grab.
    Nah, has nothing to do with performing work.
    I'll rephrase then:

    A one person cleaning company run by a single mother to support his family is committing cash grab if the mother hates his job and just runs to company for money.

    But a ponzi scheme is not committing a cash grab if the mastermind behind it all enjoys the feeling of power and fooling people.
     
  • WellspringWellspring Member EpicPosts: 1,200
    Ungood said:
    Ungood said:
    Ungood said:
    Ungood said:
    It's listed the same on the Oxford dictionary site, as well as Wikipedia (for what that's worth).

    Seems as legitimate a definition as one given by a random forum poster.  Even moreso?
    I'll wait while you link me "Cash Grab" from the Oxford Dictionary Site or maybe link Wikipedia... I'd like to see that as well.

    For the record, I posted the Wiktionary definition.

    Which is a lot more valid then some random forum poster saying "my pocket dictionary it says" or talking about sites that I know don't have the info... 
    Oxford just lists it as "money grab":

    https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/us/money_grab

    "NOUN
    informal 
    • An undignified or unprincipled acquisition of a large sum of money with little effort."



    Wiktionary is Wikipedia's dictionary sister site.  You're talking semantics.

    And if you paid attention, you would have seen that Wiktionary, directly uses the term "profit" not simply "money" and also uses the Term Cash Grab.

    Anyway.. lets go with this one.. well.. anyone watching this drama festival unfold can tell that Caspian is undoubtedly putting a shit ton of effort regarding this.. so.. it does not fit the definition of "Money Grab" that you have provided.

    So you would be wrong to use the Term "Cash Grab"/"Money Grab"

    But hey.. this is the group of people that call anything they don't like P2W. So.. screwing up other terms comes as a surprise to no one.
    Compared to, y'know, actually creating the MMORPG he keeps describing....  No, he isn't putting a "shit ton" of effort into it.
    No.. no.. No.. no..

    You don't suddenly get to pull qualifiers out of your ass and make up whatever like..That Does't stop gamers from doing it however.

    Hence this asinine discussion of people not knowing how to use common words and phrases.

    So.. again.. Sorting "Cash Grab" into that fun little category of phrases that Gamers can't use correctly... oh look.. the list is slowly growing.
    I am not wasting my time engaging your willful ignorance and warped logic.

    He supposedly has a team of folks.  Running a fucking fundraising event isn't hard for a team of folks, and definitely isn't praiee-worthy.
    BING BING BING.. we have a winner.. a fundraising event

    I knew you all could figure it out if you were not being willfully obtuse.
    @MadFrenchie is not the person that comes to my mind when I read the word obtuse...
    MadFrenchieSlapshot1188
    --------------------------------------------
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,096
    Ungood said:
    Ungood said:
    Ungood said:
    Ungood said:
    It's listed the same on the Oxford dictionary site, as well as Wikipedia (for what that's worth).

    Seems as legitimate a definition as one given by a random forum poster.  Even moreso?
    I'll wait while you link me "Cash Grab" from the Oxford Dictionary Site or maybe link Wikipedia... I'd like to see that as well.

    For the record, I posted the Wiktionary definition.

    Which is a lot more valid then some random forum poster saying "my pocket dictionary it says" or talking about sites that I know don't have the info... 
    Oxford just lists it as "money grab":

    https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/us/money_grab

    "NOUN
    informal 
    • An undignified or unprincipled acquisition of a large sum of money with little effort."



    Wiktionary is Wikipedia's dictionary sister site.  You're talking semantics.

    And if you paid attention, you would have seen that Wiktionary, directly uses the term "profit" not simply "money" and also uses the Term Cash Grab.

    Anyway.. lets go with this one.. well.. anyone watching this drama festival unfold can tell that Caspian is undoubtedly putting a shit ton of effort regarding this.. so.. it does not fit the definition of "Money Grab" that you have provided.

    So you would be wrong to use the Term "Cash Grab"/"Money Grab"

    But hey.. this is the group of people that call anything they don't like P2W. So.. screwing up other terms comes as a surprise to no one.
    Compared to, y'know, actually creating the MMORPG he keeps describing....  No, he isn't putting a "shit ton" of effort into it.
    No.. no.. No.. no..

    You don't suddenly get to pull qualifiers out of your ass and make up whatever like..That Does't stop gamers from doing it however.

    Hence this asinine discussion of people not knowing how to use common words and phrases.

    So.. again.. Sorting "Cash Grab" into that fun little category of phrases that Gamers can't use correctly... oh look.. the list is slowly growing.
    I am not wasting my time engaging your willful ignorance and warped logic.

    He supposedly has a team of folks.  Running a fucking fundraising event isn't hard for a team of folks, and definitely isn't praiee-worthy.
    BING BING BING.. we have a winner.. a fundraising event

    I knew you all could figure it out if you were not being willfully obtuse.
    @MadFrenchie is not the person that comes to my mind when I read the word obtuse...
    If I ever do, please tell me.  I'd be more upset you folks let me look like that fool without knowing than I would be that you called me out for acting the fool. :D 

    image
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 32,279
    edited December 2018
    Ungood said:
    Ungood said:
    Ungood said:
    Ungood said:
     I knew you all could figure it out if you were not being willfully obtuse.
    @MadFrenchie is not the person that comes to my mind when I read the word obtuse...
    If I ever do, please tell me.  I'd be more upset you folks let me look like that fool without knowing than I would be that you called me out for acting the fool. :D 
    Don't you worry, I'm all too happy to call people out as fools, and if we ever get the opportunity to game together in FO76 you'll be afforded the opportunity to return the favor.

    I will say being willfully obtuse is a valid forum PVP technique, particularly when weilded by a masterful hand.

    ;)

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 32,279
    Kyleran said:
    Ungood said:
    Ungood said:
    Ungood said:
    Ungood said:
     I knew you all could figure it out if you were not being willfully obtuse.
    @MadFrenchie is not the person that comes to my mind when I read the word obtuse...
    If I ever do, please tell me.  I'd be more upset you folks let me look like that fool without knowing than I would be that you called me out for acting the fool. :D 
    Don't you worry, I'm all too happy to call people out as fools, and if we ever get the opportunity to game together in FO76 you'll be afforded the opportunity to return the favor.

    I will say being willfully obtuse is a valid forum PVP technique, particularly when weilded by a masterful hand.

    Follow my lead....

    ;)

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • ChildoftheShadowsChildoftheShadows Member RarePosts: 909
    Vrika said:
    Vrika said:
    What I think is the prime example of a cash grab in MMO form is when you have a template for something and you spit out variations With minute differences. Korean MMOs seem to fit the bill pretty well as those companies can churn out a "new" one every week.
    You mean kind of how they used the template from the Links of Elyria event to create this "Raiders of the Lost Vault" event?  This event fits your description to a T.

    The only real difference is that now they have "enhanced" the template to allow you to directly buy lootboxes and they stripped out the "classes".     Yay for progress!

    With the exception that they are fundraising for the development of the game. Do keep in mind that I am not invested in any current games ATM and never for once thought CoE would see the light of day. I'm just advocating that when people have discussions they use correct terminology as it makes a huge difference in how the conversation goes.

    Like I said before, if the game doesn't come to fruition and it's been established that development never really started (e.g. Greedmonger), then it's a scam.
    It is a cash grab by the definition of the term.  The purpose for raising the money doesn't come into play.

    Road to hell is paved with good intentions, and all that.
    Of course it does. If someone is creating something for the sole purpose to make money then it's a cash grab. If making money is a means to do what the love, it's not.

    Is this developer doing this solely for the profits?
    If a poor single mother works long days as a cleaner to support his family despite hating the job, then by your definition she's committing a cash grab.

    But if someone loves running a ponzi scheme then he's not committing a cash grab.
    Nah, has nothing to do with performing work.
    I'll rephrase then:

    A one person cleaning company run by a single mother to support his family is committing cash grab if the mother hates his job and just runs to company for money.

    But a ponzi scheme is not committing a cash grab if the mastermind behind it all enjoys the feeling of power and fooling people.
    Its was poor wording on my part, that's for sure. That often happens when communicating through a cell phone keyboard :P But these are not what I was talking about at all.

    Game development is not something that was created with the intent of making money. Most people who want to get into game development don't even think dollar signs. It doesn't mean someone can't use the idea of a good game as a scam (greedmonger), but it isn't something that is historically associated with scamming people. Sometimes things happen and people feel  like they're getting scammed, or the company was just doing it for a cash grab, but a majority of the time... shit just happens.

    Rise of Agon and Darkfall: New Dawn are often touted as being cash grabs, but when you really dig into their situation, they are both paying the owner of the original game money as well as server costs and they barely have subscribers to pay for anything, so the actual money to be "grabbed" isn't even theirs. Now, the original developer, the one leasing them the rights to the game.. that's a cash grab. They knew damn right you couldn't produce 2 copies of the same MMO and expect positive results, they just did it for as much quick cash as they could get.

    It's just a pet peeve of mine when people throw out words or phrases in the wrong context. Especially when they just say "Eh, semantics". Learn what things mean and use them correctly if you want to have a discussion. Otherwise you'll just be a fool.
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,096
    edited December 2018
    Kyleran said:
    Ungood said:
    Ungood said:
    Ungood said:
    Ungood said:
     I knew you all could figure it out if you were not being willfully obtuse.
    @MadFrenchie is not the person that comes to my mind when I read the word obtuse...
    If I ever do, please tell me.  I'd be more upset you folks let me look like that fool without knowing than I would be that you called me out for acting the fool. :D 
    Don't you worry, I'm all too happy to call people out as fools, and if we ever get the opportunity to game together in FO76 you'll be afforded the opportunity to return the favor.

    I will say being willfully obtuse is a valid forum PVP technique, particularly when weilded by a masterful hand.

    ;)
    I am under no assumptions I can't be stubborn as a mule and as wrong as a midget humping a tranny dolphin bareback, but the idea that Caspian should catch a break because he's using needlessly complex designs to pretty much merely sell shit online seems strange, considering he should be making a game, instead.

    And sure, maybe he painstakingly came up with the theme for these events and such, but that wasn't the point of this project.  Nobody kick-started a campaign to see how creative Caspian can get with fleecing his backers for more cash.
    Wellspring

    image
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 10,455
    Kyleran said:
    Ungood said:
    Ungood said:
    Ungood said:
    Ungood said:
     I knew you all could figure it out if you were not being willfully obtuse.
    @MadFrenchie is not the person that comes to my mind when I read the word obtuse...
    If I ever do, please tell me.  I'd be more upset you folks let me look like that fool without knowing than I would be that you called me out for acting the fool. :D 
    Don't you worry, I'm all too happy to call people out as fools, and if we ever get the opportunity to game together in FO76 you'll be afforded the opportunity to return the favor.

    I will say being willfully obtuse is a valid forum PVP technique, particularly when weilded by a masterful hand.

    ;)
    I am under no assumptions I can't be stubborn as a mule and as wrong as a midget humping a tranny dolphin bareback, but the idea that Caspian should catch a break because he's using needlessly complex designs to pretty much merely sell shit online seems strange, considering he should be making a game, instead.

    And sure, maybe he painstakingly came up with the theme for these events and such, but that wasn't the point of this project.  Nobody kick-started a campaign to see how creative Caspian can get with fleecing his backers for more cash.
    True.  But some of us who did not kickstart it are waiting to see how far it goes.  If you told these same fans back in 2016 that Caspien would be outright selling stuff in his store such as Legendary items they would have laughed at you.  If you told them that not only would Caspien put in LootBoxes but that they would defend/excuse them they would have called you crazy.  

    So don't get stuck following the wild deflection about what is the dictionary definition of a cash grab.  It doesn't matter what you call it.  A pile of poop by any other name is still a pile of poop.

    MadFrenchieWellspringUngood

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

    My ignore list finally has one occupant after 12 years. I am the strongest supporter of free speech on here, but free speech does not mean forced listening. Have fun my friend. Hope you find a new stalking target.

  • AnOldFartAnOldFart Member UncommonPosts: 301
    Kyleran said:
    Ungood said:
    Ungood said:
    Ungood said:
    Ungood said:
     I knew you all could figure it out if you were not being willfully obtuse.
    @MadFrenchie is not the person that comes to my mind when I read the word obtuse...
    If I ever do, please tell me.  I'd be more upset you folks let me look like that fool without knowing than I would be that you called me out for acting the fool. :D 
    Don't you worry, I'm all too happy to call people out as fools, and if we ever get the opportunity to game together in FO76 you'll be afforded the opportunity to return the favor.

    I will say being willfully obtuse is a valid forum PVP technique, particularly when weilded by a masterful hand.

    ;)
    I am under no assumptions I can't be stubborn as a mule and as wrong as a midget humping a tranny dolphin bareback, but the idea that Caspian should catch a break because he's using needlessly complex designs to pretty much merely sell shit online seems strange, considering he should be making a game, instead.

    And sure, maybe he painstakingly came up with the theme for these events and such, but that wasn't the point of this project.  Nobody kick-started a campaign to see how creative Caspian can get with fleecing his backers for more cash.
    True.  But some of us who did not kickstart it are waiting to see how far it goes.  If you told these same fans back in 2016 that Caspien would be outright selling stuff in his store such as Legendary items they would have laughed at you.  If you told them that not only would Caspien put in LootBoxes but that they would defend/excuse them they would have called you crazy.  

    So don't get stuck following the wild deflection about what is the dictionary definition of a cash grab.  It doesn't matter what you call it.  A pile of poop by any other name is still a pile of poop.

    I can confirm this is 100% factual 
    Slapshot1188MadFrenchie
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 32,279
    Kyleran said:
    Ungood said:
    Ungood said:
    Ungood said:
    Ungood said:
     I knew you all could figure it out if you were not being willfully obtuse.
    @MadFrenchie is not the person that comes to my mind when I read the word obtuse...
    If I ever do, please tell me.  I'd be more upset you folks let me look like that fool without knowing than I would be that you called me out for acting the fool. :D 
    Don't you worry, I'm all too happy to call people out as fools, and if we ever get the opportunity to game together in FO76 you'll be afforded the opportunity to return the favor.

    I will say being willfully obtuse is a valid forum PVP technique, particularly when weilded by a masterful hand.

    ;)
    I am under no assumptions I can't be stubborn as a mule and as wrong as a midget humping a tranny dolphin bareback, but the idea that Caspian should catch a break because he's using needlessly complex designs to pretty much merely sell shit online seems strange, considering he should be making a game, instead.

    And sure, maybe he painstakingly came up with the theme for these events and such, but that wasn't the point of this project.  Nobody kick-started a campaign to see how creative Caspian can get with fleecing his backers for more cash.
    True.  But some of us who did not kickstart it are waiting to see how far it goes.  If you told these same fans back in 2016 that Caspien would be outright selling stuff in his store such as Legendary items they would have laughed at you.  If you told them that not only would Caspien put in LootBoxes but that they would defend/excuse them they would have called you crazy.  

    So don't get stuck following the wild deflection about what is the dictionary definition of a cash grab.  It doesn't matter what you call it.  A pile of poop by any other name is still a pile of poop.

    Well, a pile of poop has actual substance, so far, COE, not so much.


    MadFrenchieUngood

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 10,455
    Kyleran said:
    Kyleran said:
    Ungood said:
    Ungood said:
    Ungood said:
    Ungood said:
     I knew you all could figure it out if you were not being willfully obtuse.
    @MadFrenchie is not the person that comes to my mind when I read the word obtuse...
    If I ever do, please tell me.  I'd be more upset you folks let me look like that fool without knowing than I would be that you called me out for acting the fool. :D 
    Don't you worry, I'm all too happy to call people out as fools, and if we ever get the opportunity to game together in FO76 you'll be afforded the opportunity to return the favor.

    I will say being willfully obtuse is a valid forum PVP technique, particularly when weilded by a masterful hand.

    ;)
    I am under no assumptions I can't be stubborn as a mule and as wrong as a midget humping a tranny dolphin bareback, but the idea that Caspian should catch a break because he's using needlessly complex designs to pretty much merely sell shit online seems strange, considering he should be making a game, instead.

    And sure, maybe he painstakingly came up with the theme for these events and such, but that wasn't the point of this project.  Nobody kick-started a campaign to see how creative Caspian can get with fleecing his backers for more cash.
    True.  But some of us who did not kickstart it are waiting to see how far it goes.  If you told these same fans back in 2016 that Caspien would be outright selling stuff in his store such as Legendary items they would have laughed at you.  If you told them that not only would Caspien put in LootBoxes but that they would defend/excuse them they would have called you crazy.  

    So don't get stuck following the wild deflection about what is the dictionary definition of a cash grab.  It doesn't matter what you call it.  A pile of poop by any other name is still a pile of poop.

    Well, a pile of poop has actual substance, so far, COE, not so much.


    I think you will see substance in January.  I also believe that what you see is just a tiny fraction of where they need to be if they are going to launch in 2019 as I think was the last rough date by Caspien.   What you will see is some really basic stuff like moving around, maybe some combat.  All with placeholder artwork.  Maybe some basic gathering etc...

    All stuff you can buy for a few bucks on an asset store.

    The real important stuff like having 100,000 players on the same server or having your characters function offline as though you were still there...  Yeah... not gonna see that.

    KyleranUngood

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

    My ignore list finally has one occupant after 12 years. I am the strongest supporter of free speech on here, but free speech does not mean forced listening. Have fun my friend. Hope you find a new stalking target.

  • UngoodUngood Member EpicPosts: 2,315
    Ungood said:
    Ungood said:
    Ungood said:
    Ungood said:
    It's listed the same on the Oxford dictionary site, as well as Wikipedia (for what that's worth).

    Seems as legitimate a definition as one given by a random forum poster.  Even moreso?
    I'll wait while you link me "Cash Grab" from the Oxford Dictionary Site or maybe link Wikipedia... I'd like to see that as well.

    For the record, I posted the Wiktionary definition.

    Which is a lot more valid then some random forum poster saying "my pocket dictionary it says" or talking about sites that I know don't have the info... 
    Oxford just lists it as "money grab":

    https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/us/money_grab

    "NOUN
    informal 
    • An undignified or unprincipled acquisition of a large sum of money with little effort."



    Wiktionary is Wikipedia's dictionary sister site.  You're talking semantics.

    And if you paid attention, you would have seen that Wiktionary, directly uses the term "profit" not simply "money" and also uses the Term Cash Grab.

    Anyway.. lets go with this one.. well.. anyone watching this drama festival unfold can tell that Caspian is undoubtedly putting a shit ton of effort regarding this.. so.. it does not fit the definition of "Money Grab" that you have provided.

    So you would be wrong to use the Term "Cash Grab"/"Money Grab"

    But hey.. this is the group of people that call anything they don't like P2W. So.. screwing up other terms comes as a surprise to no one.
    Compared to, y'know, actually creating the MMORPG he keeps describing....  No, he isn't putting a "shit ton" of effort into it.
    No.. no.. No.. no..

    You don't suddenly get to pull qualifiers out of your ass and make up whatever like..That Does't stop gamers from doing it however.

    Hence this asinine discussion of people not knowing how to use common words and phrases.

    So.. again.. Sorting "Cash Grab" into that fun little category of phrases that Gamers can't use correctly... oh look.. the list is slowly growing.
    I am not wasting my time engaging your willful ignorance and warped logic.

    He supposedly has a team of folks.  Running a fucking fundraising event isn't hard for a team of folks, and definitely isn't praiee-worthy.
    BING BING BING.. we have a winner.. a fundraising event

    I knew you all could figure it out if you were not being willfully obtuse.
    @MadFrenchie is not the person that comes to my mind when I read the word obtuse...
    And yet.. he just spent several posts.. defending the wrong use of a phrase.. and then showed that he knew it was the wrong phrase, knew why it was the wrong phrase.. and even that he know what the right term was.. 

    Typically... I'd call that a Troll, and just give him a 2/10 for exposing himself.

    But you know, he seemed to passionate about what he was talking about, that.. it was not just trolling for the sake of trolling... it was like he believed or really wanted it to be a cash grab.

    So maybe just... Making a Fool of himself for the sake of it?

    I'd give him a "Blinded by Hate" token excuse.. if he was a backer, because as a fellow gamer, I am well aware that irrational hate will do a lot to impair someones ability to think calmly and logically.
    Slapshot1188MadFrenchie
    Currently Playing Eternal Crusade, because no matter who wins, a bunch of cheaters lost.
  • UngoodUngood Member EpicPosts: 2,315
    The real important stuff like having 100,000 players on the same server or having your characters function offline as though you were still there...  Yeah... not gonna see that.

    Yup.. anyone could have told you that you need a game first before you would see any of that. ;)

    Currently Playing Eternal Crusade, because no matter who wins, a bunch of cheaters lost.
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