.. you know.. at this point, I am sitting here, really pondering what goes though peoples head when they think that a ground breaking MMO, with never before seen features, can be put out in 2 years on a 5 million budget that comes trickling in as opposed to an upfront sum.
... I can't tell if I should laugh at the people who thought that was really going to happen, or cry that these people make up a vocal part of the gaming community.
That's a very fair point, I agree. So then did Caspian openly lie about how expensive it would be too make the game in order to make it more appealing to back? or do we laugh/cry at him since he thought it would only take a 4 million budget to release the game in 2017?
In my opinion Caspien honestly believed what he was saying. That almost makes it worse because it speaks to total naivety and ignorance of reality. This is why I always say they are lacking the adult in the room to keep them grounded. Instead they have the echo chamber reflecting back how awesome these unrealistic ideas are. Those in the Ivory Tower have done far more to harm this game’s development than any Harbinger.
Thus we end up here.. with this ridiculous “event” with many more to come.
I think you are somewhat correct in this.
From what I have gleaned from all this, is what they need is a solid Project Manager. I have no doubt Caspian is a programmer and game developer, and in many cases a PR grue being able to constantly raise money from crowed funding, so it never sat right with me about your claims they were not game developers, they are in every sense of the word. But, all too often what is overlooked is that there is a whole other field of money and time management that it seems this crew is lacking, which might be why they do not have a backer/producer and hence your feelings that the "Adult in the Room" is missing.
Makes more sense now.. when I look at it.
Missteps like SpatialOS and ElyriaMUD are not caused by lack of management expertise, they are caused by someone who lacks required technical knowledge making the technical decisions.
I am not trying to defend the guy with what I am about to say, just shedding some light here.
Given the scope of this project and how unique it appears to be, technically no one has the Technical Knowledge to know what the end result of those experiments would be.
Just want to put that out there.. before you burn the guy in effigy..
Now that I have said that.. you can light the torches and pitch forks again.
When people try to tell you that you are wasting your time with stuff like developing ElyriaMud and VoxElyria in parallel with the main game and you say you know best and mock them... then you better be right. Especially when it is OTHER PEOPLE'S MONEY that you are wasting.
SpatialOS is slightly different, but remember that HE is the one who proclaimed loudly during the Kickstarter that it was the answer to everyone's questions about how they would accomplish miracles. He said it was the fabric the game would be built on. Being wrong about that is kind of a big deal.
It really depends on WHO the people are that are telling me I am wasting my time.
Case in point, in my professional life, If another industry professional, with equal to better experience as my own tells me I am wasting my time with a proposed idea or plan, I'll listen, process their advice, and if the situation presents itself, I'll ask them deeper questions.
If they are some random person with no credentials I can validate, I am not being rude, and nothing personal with this at all, and make no mistake, I'll give almost anyone that wants to tell me their 2 cents the respect to say their bit. But reality is, unless they sound like they know their shit.. and I mean.. really know their shit, I'm not going to spend time considering what they said.
I am also not going to attack them either, there is no place for that in an professional working situation, I save that crap for inconsequential bullshit stuff like games, where it does not matter if I am right or wrong and I can speak out my ass and know I am speaking out my ass, and not care, hell I can post drunk and not care.. I'd never try that at work.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
.. you know.. at this point, I am sitting here, really pondering what goes though peoples head when they think that a ground breaking MMO, with never before seen features, can be put out in 2 years on a 5 million budget that comes trickling in as opposed to an upfront sum.
... I can't tell if I should laugh at the people who thought that was really going to happen, or cry that these people make up a vocal part of the gaming community.
That's a very fair point, I agree. So then did Caspian openly lie about how expensive it would be too make the game in order to make it more appealing to back? or do we laugh/cry at him since he thought it would only take a 4 million budget to release the game in 2017?
In my opinion Caspien honestly believed what he was saying. That almost makes it worse because it speaks to total naivety and ignorance of reality. This is why I always say they are lacking the adult in the room to keep them grounded. Instead they have the echo chamber reflecting back how awesome these unrealistic ideas are. Those in the Ivory Tower have done far more to harm this game’s development than any Harbinger.
Thus we end up here.. with this ridiculous “event” with many more to come.
I think you are somewhat correct in this.
From what I have gleaned from all this, is what they need is a solid Project Manager. I have no doubt Caspian is a programmer and game developer, and in many cases a PR grue being able to constantly raise money from crowed funding, so it never sat right with me about your claims they were not game developers, they are in every sense of the word. But, all too often what is overlooked is that there is a whole other field of money and time management that it seems this crew is lacking, which might be why they do not have a backer/producer and hence your feelings that the "Adult in the Room" is missing.
Makes more sense now.. when I look at it.
Missteps like SpatialOS and ElyriaMUD are not caused by lack of management expertise, they are caused by someone who lacks required technical knowledge making the technical decisions.
I am not trying to defend the guy with what I am about to say, just shedding some light here.
Given the scope of this project and how unique it appears to be, technically no one has the Technical Knowledge to know what the end result of those experiments would be.
Just want to put that out there.. before you burn the guy in effigy..
Now that I have said that.. you can light the torches and pitch forks again.
When people try to tell you that you are wasting your time with stuff like developing ElyriaMud and VoxElyria in parallel with the main game and you say you know best and mock them... then you better be right. Especially when it is OTHER PEOPLE'S MONEY that you are wasting.
SpatialOS is slightly different, but remember that HE is the one who proclaimed loudly during the Kickstarter that it was the answer to everyone's questions about how they would accomplish miracles. He said it was the fabric the game would be built on. Being wrong about that is kind of a big deal.
It really depends on WHO the people are that are telling me I am wasting my time.
Case in point, in my professional life, If another industry professional, with equal to better experience as my own tells me I am wasting my time with a proposed idea or plan, I'll listen, process their advice, and if the situation presents itself, I'll ask them deeper questions.
If they are some random person with no credentials I can validate, I am not being rude, and nothing personal with this at all, and make no mistake, I'll give almost anyone that wants to tell me their 2 cents the respect to say their bit. But reality is, unless they sound like they know their shit.. and I mean.. really know their shit, I'm not going to spend time considering what they said.
I am also not going to attack them either, there is no place for that in an professional working situation, I save that crap for inconsequential bullshit stuff like games, where it does not matter if I am right or wrong and I can speak out my ass and know I am speaking out my ass, and not care, hell I can post drunk and not care.. I'd never try that at work.
And if you spurned that advice, mocked the people giving it, ad then the advice proved correct... after wasting 6-7 figures of OTHER PEOPLE’S money... how should you react?
The problem here is that there are no repercussions. Nobody holds him accountable. Waste $200k? Well let’s just have another sale! It’s like Groundhog Day every day with this game as they ignore the failures of the past and just post new crazy ideas as though the failures never happened.
This is the downfall of Crowdfunded MMORPGs. There is an utter lack of accountability. Money goes into a black box and nobody knows what it’s spent on or even if it’s wasted. Some companies use it to rent nice offices, buy furniture, equipment. Some use it as a travel fund so they can go to conventions or wherever they want. Some hire their relative or spouses. Some just use it on stupid ideas like ElyriaMud and VoxElyria.
As long as people give him money through sales/events/cash grabs/whatever you call it this pattern is going to continue.
In a few days we will get the latest State of Elyria update. I’m sure he will talk about all the great progress that has been made. Might even announce the first people will get into Pre-Elyria... but I suggest anyone interested simply go back and read prior ones, what was promised/stated... and what reality turned out to be. We are now a few years into his failed statements. People should know better by now.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
And if you spurned that advice, mocked the people giving it, ad then the advice proved correct... after wasting 6-7 figures of OTHER PEOPLE’S money... how should you react?
You want me to be honest?
As I said, unless they sounded like they knew their shit, I'd chalk it up to "Even a Broken clock is right twice a day" I'm not suddenly going to adhere to their advice or seek out their wisdom until they start putting out some professional level knowledge.
A 7 figure fuck up tho.. ouch.. those hurt.. now, make no mistake, we have had a 7 figure fuck ups happen with our company, (more then I care to admit) in fact, we just had a project go 2 million over budget this summer, (Not my project thankfully!) so I have seen those kinds of screw ups happen, and make no mistake, they suck balls, they have a ripple effect though the whole company, and people get "reassigned" and "allowed to move on better things" over them.
But, even when they do happen, we turn to professionals in the field to find out where our errors were, and help us make better decisions in the future, we do not, nor shall we ever, just go wallowing to every Tom, Dick and Harry that dumped their 2 cents into the bucket and guessed right.
Just in case you were actually wondering.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
Now this is a game form.. I have started drinking.. and I am not going to talk shop anymore.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
Actions speak louder than words. @Ungood you're willing to make excuses for Caspian while he's breaking promises and blowing through other people's money. But as far as I know, you have yet to give him any money of your own for them to waste.
It would be like me going into the Star Citizen forum today, and trying to defend the delays and feature creep saying, "you guys should've known it would take longer than what was originally projected". I would have no right to defend them. I wasn't there when the promises were made years ago. I didn't back the Kickstarter or even follow the project from the start.
Point being, quit making excuses from the sidelines. Drop $500+ on a pledge package if you really think the game is going to be worth something.
Actions speak louder than words. @Ungood you're willing to make excuses for Caspian while he's breaking promises and blowing through other people's money. But as far as I know, you have yet to give him any money of your own for them to waste.
It would be like me going into the Star Citizen forum today, and trying to defend the delays and feature creep saying, "you guys should've known it would take longer than what was originally projected". I would have no right to defend them. I wasn't there when the promises were made years ago. I didn't back the Kickstarter or even follow the project from the start.
Point being, quit making excuses from the sidelines. Drop $500+ on a pledge package if you really think the game is going to be worth something.
He's either right or wrong - pledging or not doesn't have any effect on that. And he has the same right to speak his mind like everyone else.
Constantine, The Console Poster
"One of the most difficult tasks men can perform, however much others may despise it, is the invention of good games and it cannot be done by men out of touch with their instinctive selves." - Carl Jung
Some people said his timeline and budget were not feasible. Caspien mocked those people and assured us that he had his Gantt charts. Some who said his development plan was overly ambitious and that things like ElyriaMud were wasteful were branded as Harbingers by the dev team in an attempt to discredit us.
So we do agree on this point though. I also wonder what goes through people’s heads when they think a groundbreaking MMO, with never before seen featured, can be made in 2 years on a $5M budget by an inexperienced dev team. I include Caspien in this group.
So now, because of the arrogance of the developer and Ivory Tower we are in a spot where Events such as this one are tied to pocketbook size. We are stuck with systems that give you Event currency based on store spending. We are stuck with magic items being won in a lottery like fashion.
In my mind it’s far more egregious because this is all pretty much like how a lootbox works. Yet we are supposed to believe that publishers and investors were turned down because he told them a cash shop would ruin the game? @AnOldFart what are your thoughts on the above? Hasn’t this really turned into lootboxes without the box?
More... far more, of these to come so strap on and open your wallets.
Sorry I've been afk for a day.
This is most definately loot boxes, it's the only thing that came to mind when I saw it. Buy 10 supplies for $10 and win a glowing potato...
I've open my 50 free loot boxes and it's worked out quite profitable for me but it's still a loot box.
Actions speak louder than words. @Ungood you're willing to make excuses for Caspian while he's breaking promises and blowing through other people's money. But as far as I know, you have yet to give him any money of your own for them to waste.
It would be like me going into the Star Citizen forum today, and trying to defend the delays and feature creep saying, "you guys should've known it would take longer than what was originally projected". I would have no right to defend them. I wasn't there when the promises were made years ago. I didn't back the Kickstarter or even follow the project from the start.
Point being, quit making excuses from the sidelines. Drop $500+ on a pledge package if you really think the game is going to be worth something.
He's either right or wrong - pledging or not doesn't have any effect on that. And he has the same right to speak his mind like everyone else.
Words without action are meaningless. If he really thinks he's right, then why not back it up?
EDIT: I shouldn't say he doesn't have a right to share his opinion. But if he really wants to be taken seriously, it helps to put your money where your mouth is. Otherwise, it just rings hollow.
There will be a new "sale/event/raffle/pledge-a-thon" every few months in CoE.
Otherwise the project simply dies.
Jeromy Walsh said the future funding of CoE is "secure", as long as backers keep spending at the same rate as they did previously.
So Soulbound has to continuously keep on coming up with new ways for backers to spend money... and they'll have to keep it up for the next 2 to 3 years or so...
Actions speak louder than words. @Ungood you're willing to make excuses for Caspian while he's breaking promises and blowing through other people's money. But as far as I know, you have yet to give him any money of your own for them to waste.
It would be like me going into the Star Citizen forum today, and trying to defend the delays and feature creep saying, "you guys should've known it would take longer than what was originally projected". I would have no right to defend them. I wasn't there when the promises were made years ago. I didn't back the Kickstarter or even follow the project from the start.
Point being, quit making excuses from the sidelines. Drop $500+ on a pledge package if you really think the game is going to be worth something.
He's either right or wrong - pledging or not doesn't have any effect on that. And he has the same right to speak his mind like everyone else.
Words without action are meaningless. If he really thinks he's right, then why not back it up?
EDIT: I shouldn't say he doesn't have a right to share his opinion. But if he really wants to be taken seriously, it helps to put your money where your mouth is. Otherwise, it just rings hollow.
I don't think that applies in this situation mate. Because there could be a variety of reasons to not to back a project yet still one could have a valid opinion. Just as if he was a backer then it wouldn't mean on ANY level that his opinion was more correct, and vice versa.
I understand the whole 'put your money where your mouth is' but that's a sign of someone believing in what they say, not a sign being right or wrong at all.
By the way I don't think he's right! But not because he didn't back the project, that's irrelevant in my opinion.
Constantine, The Console Poster
"One of the most difficult tasks men can perform, however much others may despise it, is the invention of good games and it cannot be done by men out of touch with their instinctive selves." - Carl Jung
Actions speak louder than words. @Ungood you're willing to make excuses for Caspian while he's breaking promises and blowing through other people's money. But as far as I know, you have yet to give him any money of your own for them to waste.
It would be like me going into the Star Citizen forum today, and trying to defend the delays and feature creep saying, "you guys should've known it would take longer than what was originally projected". I would have no right to defend them. I wasn't there when the promises were made years ago. I didn't back the Kickstarter or even follow the project from the start.
Point being, quit making excuses from the sidelines. Drop $500+ on a pledge package if you really think the game is going to be worth something.
He's either right or wrong - pledging or not doesn't have any effect on that. And he has the same right to speak his mind like everyone else.
Words without action are meaningless. If he really thinks he's right, then why not back it up?
EDIT: I shouldn't say he doesn't have a right to share his opinion. But if he really wants to be taken seriously, it helps to put your money where your mouth is. Otherwise, it just rings hollow.
Whoa there horsey.
Back up a bit there son.. I never once said that I thought Caspian could pull this off.
See, that is also a part of knowing your shit, when you look at someone's plan and can make a solid call if you think they are speak out of their ass or not.
Which, to be honest, when it came to this game, I never thought he had a chance. Now with that put out.
Let me ask you two questions:
1: For the sake of argument, lets say Caspian knew he never could have pulled this off, Now my question is, if someone was dumb enough to suckered into your schemes, would you take their advice?
2: For the Sake of Argument, lets say Caspian truly believes he can pull this off. My Question is, If you were trying to build your dream, would you bother to listen to nay-sayers?
Process that for a bit and then come back to me about why you think Caspian should listen to any of you.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
Is selling something for the sole purpose of generating profits.
This is not to be confused with selling things to fund the creation of the game, keep the game running, or fund future development of the game.
Just wanted to put that out there, in case anyone actually cared.
Strange, oxford pocket dictionary states
"an undignified or unprincipled acquisition of a large sum of money with little effort."
And this is a prime example, they are using loot box mechanics in regards the supplies to get in game items (for a game not released yet). They are also doing this to aquire money to develop their game.
So yes this is a cash grab and you need to source your facts better.
Edit
Although I see in wiktionary it uses it for profits too but on the same page it also states for acquiring money.
Pocket Dictionary.. Hilarious... given the Unabridged online version has no info.
It's listed the same on the Oxford dictionary site, as well as Wikipedia (for what that's worth).
Seems as legitimate a definition as one given by a random forum poster. Even moreso?
Is selling something for the sole purpose of generating profits.
This is not to be confused with selling things to fund the creation of the game, keep the game running, or fund future development of the game.
Just wanted to put that out there, in case anyone actually cared.
Strange, oxford pocket dictionary states
"an undignified or unprincipled acquisition of a large sum of money with little effort."
And this is a prime example, they are using loot box mechanics in regards the supplies to get in game items (for a game not released yet). They are also doing this to aquire money to develop their game.
So yes this is a cash grab and you need to source your facts better.
Edit
Although I see in wiktionary it uses it for profits too but on the same page it also states for acquiring money.
Pocket Dictionary.. Hilarious... given the Unabridged online version has no info.
It's listed the same on the Oxford dictionary site, as well as Wikipedia (for what that's worth).
Seems as legitimate a definition as one given by a random forum poster. Even moreso?
I'll wait while you link me "Cash Grab" from the Oxford Dictionary Site or maybe link Wikipedia... I'd like to see that as well.
For the record, I posted the Wiktionary definition.
Which is a lot more valid then some random forum poster saying "my pocket dictionary it says" or talking about sites that I know don't have the info...
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
I wouldn't like the idea of a King anymore than i like one in real life or ANY government for that matter. The idea of ANY POWER struggle is just bad for gaming.Instead create a nice pleasant atmosphere,people helping people,people grouping together. Trying to create a sort of DEATH idea in a mmorpg is just never going to be done well and unless your actually dying then ...NO.
$$$$$<<get your own,finish the game,quit with the commercials.If that can't be done,find another hobby,game design is not in the cards.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Actions speak louder than words. @Ungood you're willing to make excuses for Caspian while he's breaking promises and blowing through other people's money. But as far as I know, you have yet to give him any money of your own for them to waste.
It would be like me going into the Star Citizen forum today, and trying to defend the delays and feature creep saying, "you guys should've known it would take longer than what was originally projected". I would have no right to defend them. I wasn't there when the promises were made years ago. I didn't back the Kickstarter or even follow the project from the start.
Point being, quit making excuses from the sidelines. Drop $500+ on a pledge package if you really think the game is going to be worth something.
He's either right or wrong - pledging or not doesn't have any effect on that. And he has the same right to speak his mind like everyone else.
Words without action are meaningless. If he really thinks he's right, then why not back it up?
EDIT: I shouldn't say he doesn't have a right to share his opinion. But if he really wants to be taken seriously, it helps to put your money where your mouth is. Otherwise, it just rings hollow.
Whoa there horsey.
Back up a bit there son.. I never once said that I thought Caspian could pull this off.
See, that is also a part of knowing your shit, when you look at someone's plan and can make a solid call if you think they are speak out of their ass or not.
Which, to be honest, when it came to this game, I never thought he had a chance. Now with that put out.
Let me ask you two questions:
1: For the sake of argument, lets say Caspian knew he never could have pulled this off, Now my question is, if someone was dumb enough to suckered into your schemes, would you take their advice?
2: For the Sake of Argument, lets say Caspian truly believes he can pull this off. My Question is, If you were trying to build your dream, would you bother to listen to nay-sayers?
Process that for a bit and then come back to me about why you think Caspian should listen to any of you.
Thanks for clearing that up! Maybe not as much in this thread, but in most topics about CoE, you have a tendency to play devil's advocate and make excuses for Caspian. Sorry to misunderstand your position.
As for your questions...
1) No, obviously not. If someone's plan was to lie and steal from their customers, they wouldn't listen to their advice.
2) If you're smart you would. Criticism is a valuable tool that allows businesses to learn and grow. The way you handle complaints can be the difference between success and failure.
The complaint is a signal that should not be ignored. When customers complain, they are giving your company an opportunity to fix what is wrong and improve your business. Why? Customers act in
their own self-interest, and they are in a unique position to tell your
company the unvarnished truth - something your employees are unlikely to
do because it might reflect negatively on their performance or they may
fear that you might "kill the messenger" rather than listen to the
message. Just about every comprehensive study done on this subject
points to greater success for companies that turn the negatives
represented by complaints into positives.
The way Caspian continues to react to criticism is part of the problem. Rather than acknowledging concerns that the game wouldn't be completed on time, he arrogantly doubled down on his position and basically said everyone who doubted his timeline was naive.
If you're going to dismiss valid criticism and boast about how you alone know best, you better D*** well be right. Caspian has not.
Lol .. some here arguing for the sake of arguing over a game that may or may not ever see the light of day ... What wasted energy ..
Dude, this a Game Form, literally, this is a outlet to wast time talking about what we do to waste time.. what were you expecting?
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
2: For the Sake of Argument, lets say Caspian truly believes he can pull this off. My Question is, If you were trying to build your dream, would you bother to listen to nay-sayers?
2) If you're smart you would. Criticism is a valuable tool that allows businesses to learn and grow. The way you handle complaints can be the difference between success and failure.
This is a solid response and well thought out.
But keep in mind that every successful person, every article, every book, every bit of advice about making your dream a reality, will all tell the same thing.. Ignore your Critics.
Every single person who has succeed in life will tell you the same thing, there will always be those that will criticize you, tell you that you will fail, they will try to stop you at every step, and tear you down, but, you need to put them aside and keep moving ahead if you have any hope to succeeded.
Now, that is not the same as just Serving your Clients.
See, a company that is simply selling a product, like a pen for example, would do well to see what their clients want and how to provide them a better pen, a pen more their liking.
But keep in mind, even those companies don't simply listen to their critics, they listen to viable fixable complaints.
So, with that long drawn out ass explication, let me ask you a question.
When you are shitting on Caspian, is there realistically anything he can do to fix your butthurt?
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
2: For the Sake of Argument, lets say Caspian truly believes he can pull this off. My Question is, If you were trying to build your dream, would you bother to listen to nay-sayers?
2) If you're smart you would. Criticism is a valuable tool that allows businesses to learn and grow. The way you handle complaints can be the difference between success and failure.
This is a solid response and well thought out.
But keep in mind that every successful person, every article, every book, every bit of advice about making your dream a reality, will all tell the same thing.. Ignore your Critics.
Every single person who has succeed in life will tell you the same thing, there will always be those that will criticize you, tell you that you will fail, they will try to stop you at every step, and tear you down, but, you need to put them aside and keep moving ahead if you have any hope to succeeded.
Now, that is not the same as just Serving your Clients.
See, a company that is simply selling a product, like a pen for example, would do well to see what their clients want and how to provide them a better pen, a pen more their liking.
But keep in mind, even those companies don't simply listen to their critics, they listen to viable fixable complaints.
So, with that long drawn out ass explication, let me ask you a question.
When you are shitting on Caspian, is there realistically anything he can do to fix your butthurt?
Deliver a fun and playable game?
Perhaps just show some evidence of actual progress on a game?
ASHES had more on display at their KSer than COE has after near 3 years.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
So, with that long drawn out ass explication, let me ask you a question.
When you are shitting on Caspian, is there realistically anything he can do to fix your butthurt?
I'm going to chalk this one up to you not really being versed in CoE's development. BTW your continued antagonistic language with phrases like " fix your butthurt" just undermines any message you may think you are sending.
Just LOOK at what he promises in each update and then LOOK at what happens a year later. It's like Groundhog Day all over again. What he needs to do is to be realistic about what can be done and what time it will take to do it.
Here is some advice given to him about a year ago after they had to layoff team members:
2: For the Sake of Argument, lets say Caspian truly believes he can pull this off. My Question is, If you were trying to build your dream, would you bother to listen to nay-sayers?
2) If you're smart you would. Criticism is a valuable tool that allows businesses to learn and grow. The way you handle complaints can be the difference between success and failure.
This is a solid response and well thought out.
But keep in mind that every successful person, every article, every book, every bit of advice about making your dream a reality, will all tell the same thing.. Ignore your Critics.
Every single person who has succeed in life will tell you the same thing, there will always be those that will criticize you, tell you that you will fail, they will try to stop you at every step, and tear you down, but, you need to put them aside and keep moving ahead if you have any hope to succeeded.
Now, that is not the same as just Serving your Clients.
See, a company that is simply selling a product, like a pen for example, would do well to see what their clients want and how to provide them a better pen, a pen more their liking.
But keep in mind, even those companies don't simply listen to their critics, they listen to viable fixable complaints.
So, with that long drawn out ass explication, let me ask you a question.
When you are shitting on Caspian, is there realistically anything he can do to fix your butthurt?
Deliver a fun and playable game?
Perhaps just show some evidence of actual progress on a game?
ASHES had more on display at their KSer than COE has after near 3 years.
Rumor has it that the State of Elyria update will feature exciting news about Pre-Elyria (formerly VoxElyria which was formerly ElyriaMud).
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
2: For the Sake of Argument, lets say Caspian truly believes he can pull this off. My Question is, If you were trying to build your dream, would you bother to listen to nay-sayers?
2) If you're smart you would. Criticism is a valuable tool that allows businesses to learn and grow. The way you handle complaints can be the difference between success and failure.
This is a solid response and well thought out.
But keep in mind that every successful person, every article, every book, every bit of advice about making your dream a reality, will all tell the same thing.. Ignore your Critics.
Every single person who has succeed in life will tell you the same thing, there will always be those that will criticize you, tell you that you will fail, they will try to stop you at every step, and tear you down, but, you need to put them aside and keep moving ahead if you have any hope to succeeded.
Now, that is not the same as just Serving your Clients.
See, a company that is simply selling a product, like a pen for example, would do well to see what their clients want and how to provide them a better pen, a pen more their liking.
But keep in mind, even those companies don't simply listen to their critics, they listen to viable fixable complaints.
So, with that long drawn out ass explication, let me ask you a question.
When you are shitting on Caspian, is there realistically anything he can do to fix your butthurt?
Deliver a fun and playable game?
Perhaps just show some evidence of actual progress on a game?
ASHES had more on display at their KSer than COE has after near 3 years.
Rumor has it that the State of Elyria update will feature exciting news about Pre-Elyria (formerly VoxElyria which was formerly ElyriaMud).
I'm tired of news, just show me some gameplay vids.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
2: For the Sake of Argument, lets say Caspian truly believes he can pull this off. My Question is, If you were trying to build your dream, would you bother to listen to nay-sayers?
2) If you're smart you would. Criticism is a valuable tool that allows businesses to learn and grow. The way you handle complaints can be the difference between success and failure.
This is a solid response and well thought out.
But keep in mind that every successful person, every article, every book, every bit of advice about making your dream a reality, will all tell the same thing.. Ignore your Critics.
Every single person who has succeed in life will tell you the same thing, there will always be those that will criticize you, tell you that you will fail, they will try to stop you at every step, and tear you down, but, you need to put them aside and keep moving ahead if you have any hope to succeeded.
Now, that is not the same as just Serving your Clients.
See, a company that is simply selling a product, like a pen for example, would do well to see what their clients want and how to provide them a better pen, a pen more their liking.
But keep in mind, even those companies don't simply listen to their critics, they listen to viable fixable complaints.
So, with that long drawn out ass explication, let me ask you a question.
When you are shitting on Caspian, is there realistically anything he can do to fix your butthurt?
Deliver a fun and playable game?
Perhaps just show some evidence of actual progress on a game?
ASHES had more on display at their KSer than COE has after near 3 years.
Rumor has it that the State of Elyria update will feature exciting news about Pre-Elyria (formerly VoxElyria which was formerly ElyriaMud).
I'm tired of news, just show me some gameplay vids.
Plenty of gameplay vids. Just none with more than 1-2 characters at a time. But that's OK because they are using SpatialOS a homegrown backend to handle it all.
Comments
Case in point, in my professional life, If another industry professional, with equal to better experience as my own tells me I am wasting my time with a proposed idea or plan, I'll listen, process their advice, and if the situation presents itself, I'll ask them deeper questions.
If they are some random person with no credentials I can validate, I am not being rude, and nothing personal with this at all, and make no mistake, I'll give almost anyone that wants to tell me their 2 cents the respect to say their bit. But reality is, unless they sound like they know their shit.. and I mean.. really know their shit, I'm not going to spend time considering what they said.
I am also not going to attack them either, there is no place for that in an professional working situation, I save that crap for inconsequential bullshit stuff like games, where it does not matter if I am right or wrong and I can speak out my ass and know I am speaking out my ass, and not care, hell I can post drunk and not care.. I'd never try that at work.
The problem here is that there are no repercussions. Nobody holds him accountable. Waste $200k? Well let’s just have another sale! It’s like Groundhog Day every day with this game as they ignore the failures of the past and just post new crazy ideas as though the failures never happened.
This is the downfall of Crowdfunded MMORPGs. There is an utter lack of accountability. Money goes into a black box and nobody knows what it’s spent on or even if it’s wasted. Some companies use it to rent nice offices, buy furniture, equipment. Some use it as a travel fund so they can go to conventions or wherever they want. Some hire their relative or spouses. Some just use it on stupid ideas like ElyriaMud and VoxElyria.
As long as people give him money through sales/events/cash grabs/whatever you call it this pattern is going to continue.
In a few days we will get the latest State of Elyria update. I’m sure he will talk about all the great progress that has been made. Might even announce the first people will get into Pre-Elyria... but I suggest anyone interested simply go back and read prior ones, what was promised/stated... and what reality turned out to be. We are now a few years into his failed statements. People should know better by now.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
As I said, unless they sounded like they knew their shit, I'd chalk it up to "Even a Broken clock is right twice a day" I'm not suddenly going to adhere to their advice or seek out their wisdom until they start putting out some professional level knowledge.
A 7 figure fuck up tho.. ouch.. those hurt.. now, make no mistake, we have had a 7 figure fuck ups happen with our company, (more then I care to admit) in fact, we just had a project go 2 million over budget this summer, (Not my project thankfully!) so I have seen those kinds of screw ups happen, and make no mistake, they suck balls, they have a ripple effect though the whole company, and people get "reassigned" and "allowed to move on better things" over them.
But, even when they do happen, we turn to professionals in the field to find out where our errors were, and help us make better decisions in the future, we do not, nor shall we ever, just go wallowing to every Tom, Dick and Harry that dumped their 2 cents into the bucket and guessed right.
Just in case you were actually wondering.
It would be like me going into the Star Citizen forum today, and trying to defend the delays and feature creep saying, "you guys should've known it would take longer than what was originally projected". I would have no right to defend them. I wasn't there when the promises were made years ago. I didn't back the Kickstarter or even follow the project from the start.
Point being, quit making excuses from the sidelines. Drop $500+ on a pledge package if you really think the game is going to be worth something.
This is most definately loot boxes, it's the only thing that came to mind when I saw it.
Buy 10 supplies for $10 and win a glowing potato...
I've open my 50 free loot boxes and it's worked out quite profitable for me but it's still a loot box.
Otherwise the project simply dies.
Jeromy Walsh said the future funding of CoE is "secure", as long as backers keep spending at the same rate as they did previously.
So Soulbound has to continuously keep on coming up with new ways for backers to spend money... and they'll have to keep it up for the next 2 to 3 years or so...
I understand the whole 'put your money where your mouth is' but that's a sign of someone believing in what they say, not a sign being right or wrong at all.
By the way I don't think he's right!
Back up a bit there son.. I never once said that I thought Caspian could pull this off.
See, that is also a part of knowing your shit, when you look at someone's plan and can make a solid call if you think they are speak out of their ass or not.
Which, to be honest, when it came to this game, I never thought he had a chance. Now with that put out.
Let me ask you two questions:
1: For the sake of argument, lets say Caspian knew he never could have pulled this off, Now my question is, if someone was dumb enough to suckered into your schemes, would you take their advice?
2: For the Sake of Argument, lets say Caspian truly believes he can pull this off. My Question is, If you were trying to build your dream, would you bother to listen to nay-sayers?
Process that for a bit and then come back to me about why you think Caspian should listen to any of you.
Ignore initially... sure
Ignore a second time... OK
Ignore after I ran out of fingers counting how many times? Well...
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Seems as legitimate a definition as one given by a random forum poster. Even moreso?
For the record, I posted the Wiktionary definition.
Which is a lot more valid then some random forum poster saying "my pocket dictionary it says" or talking about sites that I know don't have the info...
The idea of ANY POWER struggle is just bad for gaming.Instead create a nice pleasant atmosphere,people helping people,people grouping together.
Trying to create a sort of DEATH idea in a mmorpg is just never going to be done well and unless your actually dying then ...NO.
$$$$$<<get your own,finish the game,quit with the commercials.If that can't be done,find another hobby,game design is not in the cards.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
But keep in mind that every successful person, every article, every book, every bit of advice about making your dream a reality, will all tell the same thing.. Ignore your Critics.
Every single person who has succeed in life will tell you the same thing, there will always be those that will criticize you, tell you that you will fail, they will try to stop you at every step, and tear you down, but, you need to put them aside and keep moving ahead if you have any hope to succeeded.
Now, that is not the same as just Serving your Clients.
See, a company that is simply selling a product, like a pen for example, would do well to see what their clients want and how to provide them a better pen, a pen more their liking.
But keep in mind, even those companies don't simply listen to their critics, they listen to viable fixable complaints.
So, with that long drawn out ass explication, let me ask you a question.
When you are shitting on Caspian, is there realistically anything he can do to fix your butthurt?
Perhaps just show some evidence of actual progress on a game?
ASHES had more on display at their KSer than COE has after near 3 years.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
What Caspien has to do is to start to be realistic. See post from July on this: https://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/474903/when-will-caspien-get-realistic/p1
Just LOOK at what he promises in each update and then LOOK at what happens a year later. It's like Groundhog Day all over again. What he needs to do is to be realistic about what can be done and what time it will take to do it.
Here is some advice given to him about a year ago after they had to layoff team members:
https://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/471094/the-way-forward/p1
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Did you forget this stunner from the now canceled Vox Elyria? https://www.facebook.com/chroniclesofelyria/videos/a-look-at-voxelyria/1300608513399551/
Or this amazing footage from a year and a half ago from all the work they put into ElyriaMud (before cancelling it)? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cILW_XtQU98
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018