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New event / cash grab

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  • ChildoftheShadowsChildoftheShadows Member RarePosts: 1,028
    Ungood said:

    Did they in fact put out an exact amount they would need to fully make the game from start to finish, and also put out the exact amount they have made so far to date?

    Also, a keynote here is if they are working on the game or trying to develop it. If not, than sure, it's just a cash grab, however, if they are putting this money into the game to continue it's development, then it's purely a fundraiser.



    As I said in my earlier post.  Despite promises of transparency IMHO there has been none. We know how much they raised but have no idea how much they spent or what they are spending it on.  We DO know they are FAR beyond what they said they needed for the fully launched game.  Don't care if you call it a cash grab, ineptitude, lying, whatever.  A rose by any other name is still a rose and shit by any other name is still shit.

    From Massively: If we’ve done the math right, you raised $900,000 in Kickstarter, plus a million in self-funding, and now you’re seeking another $3 million, for a rough total of $5 million?

    Not quite. As I mentioned before, we’ve said we’d need about $2M more to get the game out the door, but $3M would be better. Why? We felt it was better to over-state than under-estimate. Again, we’re always trying to set expectations and really didn’t see this coming as a surprise to anyone. However, and this is really important, we’re not seeking any more money right now. A large percentage of the community didn’t get to back us during Kickstarter, and a similarly large group wanted us to open the store so they could upgrade their pledges.

    We’re opening the store because it’s what the community wanted. As we said before, we have a plan to obtain the remaining funds we need. This update most definitely was not “Hey, thanks for the support, now we need $2M more money.” It was solely, “Hey all, as you know, MMOs are expensive and we’re still working to raise another $2M – $3M, but anything you want to contribute further will help.”

    Is that the total budget for the game?

    Yes. That’s what we anticipate is necessary to finish the game completely – including building all the additional content, hiring additional staff, and getting it out the door.

    https://massivelyop.com/2016/09/28/interview-chronicles-of-elyrias-jeromy-walsh-on-post-kickstarter-funding/

    As I said-  It doesn't matter what word you want to use.  Reality is that this has become a black hole that needs to suck in more and more amounts of money to survive.  They will sell anything and everything by any means.  They will sell them directly as they do now in the cash shop and they will sell them indirectly as they are doing in this "event.  They tie the events directly to the amount of money you spend in the store.


    Heaping pile of crap but feel free to name that pile of crap anything you like.  As long as people keep funding Caspien's LARPing attempt at development I guess it's all good.




    But it does matter what word is used... Calling it a cash grab is the wrong definition of a cash grab. If it turns out that this "fund raising" is not going toward the production  of the game then it's a scam. Which is what greedmonger was, my bad in that one.

    If they do produce a game and it turns out like a 100k budget game after raising 5 million then THAT is a cash grab.
    GdemamiUngood
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 10,876
    Ungood said:

    Did they in fact put out an exact amount they would need to fully make the game from start to finish, and also put out the exact amount they have made so far to date?

    Also, a keynote here is if they are working on the game or trying to develop it. If not, than sure, it's just a cash grab, however, if they are putting this money into the game to continue it's development, then it's purely a fundraiser.



    As I said in my earlier post.  Despite promises of transparency IMHO there has been none. We know how much they raised but have no idea how much they spent or what they are spending it on.  We DO know they are FAR beyond what they said they needed for the fully launched game.  Don't care if you call it a cash grab, ineptitude, lying, whatever.  A rose by any other name is still a rose and shit by any other name is still shit.

    From Massively: If we’ve done the math right, you raised $900,000 in Kickstarter, plus a million in self-funding, and now you’re seeking another $3 million, for a rough total of $5 million?

    Not quite. As I mentioned before, we’ve said we’d need about $2M more to get the game out the door, but $3M would be better. Why? We felt it was better to over-state than under-estimate. Again, we’re always trying to set expectations and really didn’t see this coming as a surprise to anyone. However, and this is really important, we’re not seeking any more money right now. A large percentage of the community didn’t get to back us during Kickstarter, and a similarly large group wanted us to open the store so they could upgrade their pledges.

    We’re opening the store because it’s what the community wanted. As we said before, we have a plan to obtain the remaining funds we need. This update most definitely was not “Hey, thanks for the support, now we need $2M more money.” It was solely, “Hey all, as you know, MMOs are expensive and we’re still working to raise another $2M – $3M, but anything you want to contribute further will help.”

    Is that the total budget for the game?

    Yes. That’s what we anticipate is necessary to finish the game completely – including building all the additional content, hiring additional staff, and getting it out the door.

    https://massivelyop.com/2016/09/28/interview-chronicles-of-elyrias-jeromy-walsh-on-post-kickstarter-funding/

    As I said-  It doesn't matter what word you want to use.  Reality is that this has become a black hole that needs to suck in more and more amounts of money to survive.  They will sell anything and everything by any means.  They will sell them directly as they do now in the cash shop and they will sell them indirectly as they are doing in this "event.  They tie the events directly to the amount of money you spend in the store.


    Heaping pile of crap but feel free to name that pile of crap anything you like.  As long as people keep funding Caspien's LARPing attempt at development I guess it's all good.




    But it does matter what word is used... Calling it a cash grab is the wrong definition of a cash grab. If it turns out that this "fund raising" is not going toward the production  of the game then it's a scam. Which is what greedmonger was, my bad in that one.

    If they do produce a game and it turns out like a 100k budget game after raising 5 million then THAT is a cash grab.
    Argue all you want. I don't care what it's called.  To me, it's like getting a pile of shit on a piece of oven baked dough and arguing over whether it's a flatbread or a pizza. 

    Lokero

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

    My ignore list finally has one occupant after 12 years. I am the strongest supporter of free speech on here, but free speech does not mean forced listening. Have fun my friend. Hope you find a new stalking target.

  • LokeroLokero Member RarePosts: 1,452
    Good Lord... you know a project has little out there worth discussing when people spend entire threads arguing over unrelated semantics.
    Slapshot1188mklinicDakeruWellspring
  • ScorchienScorchien Member LegendaryPosts: 6,781
    Life is a cash grab , if you aint doin it ... your failing
  • UngoodUngood Member EpicPosts: 2,757
    Ungood said:

    Did they in fact put out an exact amount they would need to fully make the game from start to finish, and also put out the exact amount they have made so far to date?

    Also, a keynote here is if they are working on the game or trying to develop it. If not, than sure, it's just a cash grab, however, if they are putting this money into the game to continue it's development, then it's purely a fundraiser.



    As I said in my earlier post.  Despite promises of transparency IMHO there has been none. We know how much they raised but have no idea how much they spent or what they are spending it on.  We DO know they are FAR beyond what they said they needed for the fully launched game.  Don't care if you call it a cash grab, ineptitude, lying, whatever.  A rose by any other name is still a rose and shit by any other name is still shit.

    From Massively: If we’ve done the math right, you raised $900,000 in Kickstarter, plus a million in self-funding, and now you’re seeking another $3 million, for a rough total of $5 million?

    Not quite. As I mentioned before, we’ve said we’d need about $2M more to get the game out the door, but $3M would be better. Why? We felt it was better to over-state than under-estimate. Again, we’re always trying to set expectations and really didn’t see this coming as a surprise to anyone. However, and this is really important, we’re not seeking any more money right now. A large percentage of the community didn’t get to back us during Kickstarter, and a similarly large group wanted us to open the store so they could upgrade their pledges.

    We’re opening the store because it’s what the community wanted. As we said before, we have a plan to obtain the remaining funds we need. This update most definitely was not “Hey, thanks for the support, now we need $2M more money.” It was solely, “Hey all, as you know, MMOs are expensive and we’re still working to raise another $2M – $3M, but anything you want to contribute further will help.”

    Is that the total budget for the game?

    Yes. That’s what we anticipate is necessary to finish the game completely – including building all the additional content, hiring additional staff, and getting it out the door.

    https://massivelyop.com/2016/09/28/interview-chronicles-of-elyrias-jeromy-walsh-on-post-kickstarter-funding/

    As I said-  It doesn't matter what word you want to use.  Reality is that this has become a black hole that needs to suck in more and more amounts of money to survive.  They will sell anything and everything by any means.  They will sell them directly as they do now in the cash shop and they will sell them indirectly as they are doing in this "event.  They tie the events directly to the amount of money you spend in the store.


    Heaping pile of crap but feel free to name that pile of crap anything you like.  As long as people keep funding Caspien's LARPing attempt at development I guess it's all good.




    Ummm.. they openly say in this quote that they are 2 million short of their needed goal... that's a pretty far cry from:

    All we know is that we are FAR beyond the amount stated for the full game, yet not even in Alpha.
    I mean.. maybe you may have linked the wrong thing.. but.. they openly say "No, we don't have enough to finish this game, we need at least 2 million more, and would like 3 million"

    So.. unless you have something that shows they got that 3 million.. this game is still well below the needed funds to finish it..

    Which might be why it is not in Alpha.

  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 10,876
    Ungood said:
    Ungood said:

    Did they in fact put out an exact amount they would need to fully make the game from start to finish, and also put out the exact amount they have made so far to date?

    Also, a keynote here is if they are working on the game or trying to develop it. If not, than sure, it's just a cash grab, however, if they are putting this money into the game to continue it's development, then it's purely a fundraiser.



    As I said in my earlier post.  Despite promises of transparency IMHO there has been none. We know how much they raised but have no idea how much they spent or what they are spending it on.  We DO know they are FAR beyond what they said they needed for the fully launched game.  Don't care if you call it a cash grab, ineptitude, lying, whatever.  A rose by any other name is still a rose and shit by any other name is still shit.

    From Massively: If we’ve done the math right, you raised $900,000 in Kickstarter, plus a million in self-funding, and now you’re seeking another $3 million, for a rough total of $5 million?

    Not quite. As I mentioned before, we’ve said we’d need about $2M more to get the game out the door, but $3M would be better. Why? We felt it was better to over-state than under-estimate. Again, we’re always trying to set expectations and really didn’t see this coming as a surprise to anyone. However, and this is really important, we’re not seeking any more money right now. A large percentage of the community didn’t get to back us during Kickstarter, and a similarly large group wanted us to open the store so they could upgrade their pledges.

    We’re opening the store because it’s what the community wanted. As we said before, we have a plan to obtain the remaining funds we need. This update most definitely was not “Hey, thanks for the support, now we need $2M more money.” It was solely, “Hey all, as you know, MMOs are expensive and we’re still working to raise another $2M – $3M, but anything you want to contribute further will help.”

    Is that the total budget for the game?

    Yes. That’s what we anticipate is necessary to finish the game completely – including building all the additional content, hiring additional staff, and getting it out the door.

    https://massivelyop.com/2016/09/28/interview-chronicles-of-elyrias-jeromy-walsh-on-post-kickstarter-funding/

    As I said-  It doesn't matter what word you want to use.  Reality is that this has become a black hole that needs to suck in more and more amounts of money to survive.  They will sell anything and everything by any means.  They will sell them directly as they do now in the cash shop and they will sell them indirectly as they are doing in this "event.  They tie the events directly to the amount of money you spend in the store.


    Heaping pile of crap but feel free to name that pile of crap anything you like.  As long as people keep funding Caspien's LARPing attempt at development I guess it's all good.




    Ummm.. they openly say in this quote that they are 2 million short of their needed goal... that's a pretty far cry from:

    All we know is that we are FAR beyond the amount stated for the full game, yet not even in Alpha.
    I mean.. maybe you may have linked the wrong thing.. but.. they openly say "No, we don't have enough to finish this game, we need at least 2 million more, and would like 3 million"

    So.. unless you have something that shows they got that 3 million.. this game is still well below the needed funds to finish it..

    Which might be why it is not in Alpha.

    Sometimes I wonder why I try and inform you and I do not say that to be mean, but seriously you never make any effort to educate yourself before making statements.

    That was right after the Kickstarter which should have been self-evident just from reading the quotes.  They said that they needed 2-3M more (SURPRISE!!!).  Plus the 900k Kickstarter and his stated 500k so that's 3.4-4.4 Million total.

    They are now sitting at almost $5.5M raised.  Just go to their damn website and look for yourself.


    Not surprisingly their accuracy in budgetary planning resembles their ability to project plan.  When you are Roleplaying a Developer you make quite a few mistakes along the way.  Guess it's not a big deal when you scrap ElyriaMud, VoxElyria and SpatialOS as long as other people are footing your LARPing bill.



    GdemamiWellspring

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

    My ignore list finally has one occupant after 12 years. I am the strongest supporter of free speech on here, but free speech does not mean forced listening. Have fun my friend. Hope you find a new stalking target.

  • NyteWytchNyteWytch Member UncommonPosts: 45
    So, since the game isn't out yet...is fighting over semantics of a cash grab PvP for this game?  :p
    AnOldFart
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 10,876
    NyteWytch said:
    So, since the game isn't out yet...is fighting over semantics of a cash grab PvP for this game?  :p
    Like most such efforts... most of the fun comes before launch.

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

    My ignore list finally has one occupant after 12 years. I am the strongest supporter of free speech on here, but free speech does not mean forced listening. Have fun my friend. Hope you find a new stalking target.

  • ChildoftheShadowsChildoftheShadows Member RarePosts: 1,028
    "doc said I have cancer"
    "Umm... He said it was a cyst"
    "semantics"
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 10,876
    Interesting take on the event by a "Tier 10" high level backer:

    01:29 AM - Tue Dec 18 2018

    Gunnlang

    • Member
    • Rank 10
    • 2429 Posts
    • May 2016

    A bit disappointed that OCE didn't end up getting the sunstone as well. Would have been cool to have a chance at the magically item like all the other servers. More so since this is the first magically item we have seen as well.

    Side note, getting 25k EP with that sunstone, just dam!!

    Posted By Pieoflords at 12:40 PM - Tue Dec 18 2018

    personally think there should be a way to get more supplies without just buying more. really kills the event for people who don't have extra cash lying around to shill into this thing

    All these events are the same at this rate. It's all controlled by the 1%. Can't compete against them. Even with how much I have backed, from my rank on here. Having this right before xmas, such a shitty timing. Going to take out most but the top guys.

    Gdemami

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

    My ignore list finally has one occupant after 12 years. I am the strongest supporter of free speech on here, but free speech does not mean forced listening. Have fun my friend. Hope you find a new stalking target.

  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 10,876
    "doc said I have cancer"
    "Umm... He said it was a cyst"
    "semantics"
    Way to miss the point.   Keep arguing over what to call the pile of shit as opposed to the fact that it's a pile of shit.  Seems productive.

    Gdemami

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

    My ignore list finally has one occupant after 12 years. I am the strongest supporter of free speech on here, but free speech does not mean forced listening. Have fun my friend. Hope you find a new stalking target.

  • UngoodUngood Member EpicPosts: 2,757
    Ungood said:
    Ungood said:

    Did they in fact put out an exact amount they would need to fully make the game from start to finish, and also put out the exact amount they have made so far to date?

    Also, a keynote here is if they are working on the game or trying to develop it. If not, than sure, it's just a cash grab, however, if they are putting this money into the game to continue it's development, then it's purely a fundraiser.



    As I said in my earlier post.  Despite promises of transparency IMHO there has been none. We know how much they raised but have no idea how much they spent or what they are spending it on.  We DO know they are FAR beyond what they said they needed for the fully launched game.  Don't care if you call it a cash grab, ineptitude, lying, whatever.  A rose by any other name is still a rose and shit by any other name is still shit.

    From Massively: If we’ve done the math right, you raised $900,000 in Kickstarter, plus a million in self-funding, and now you’re seeking another $3 million, for a rough total of $5 million?

    Not quite. As I mentioned before, we’ve said we’d need about $2M more to get the game out the door, but $3M would be better. Why? We felt it was better to over-state than under-estimate. Again, we’re always trying to set expectations and really didn’t see this coming as a surprise to anyone. However, and this is really important, we’re not seeking any more money right now. A large percentage of the community didn’t get to back us during Kickstarter, and a similarly large group wanted us to open the store so they could upgrade their pledges.

    We’re opening the store because it’s what the community wanted. As we said before, we have a plan to obtain the remaining funds we need. This update most definitely was not “Hey, thanks for the support, now we need $2M more money.” It was solely, “Hey all, as you know, MMOs are expensive and we’re still working to raise another $2M – $3M, but anything you want to contribute further will help.”

    Is that the total budget for the game?

    Yes. That’s what we anticipate is necessary to finish the game completely – including building all the additional content, hiring additional staff, and getting it out the door.

    https://massivelyop.com/2016/09/28/interview-chronicles-of-elyrias-jeromy-walsh-on-post-kickstarter-funding/

    As I said-  It doesn't matter what word you want to use.  Reality is that this has become a black hole that needs to suck in more and more amounts of money to survive.  They will sell anything and everything by any means.  They will sell them directly as they do now in the cash shop and they will sell them indirectly as they are doing in this "event.  They tie the events directly to the amount of money you spend in the store.


    Heaping pile of crap but feel free to name that pile of crap anything you like.  As long as people keep funding Caspien's LARPing attempt at development I guess it's all good.




    Ummm.. they openly say in this quote that they are 2 million short of their needed goal... that's a pretty far cry from:

    All we know is that we are FAR beyond the amount stated for the full game, yet not even in Alpha.
    I mean.. maybe you may have linked the wrong thing.. but.. they openly say "No, we don't have enough to finish this game, we need at least 2 million more, and would like 3 million"

    So.. unless you have something that shows they got that 3 million.. this game is still well below the needed funds to finish it..

    Which might be why it is not in Alpha.

    Sometimes I wonder why I try and inform you and I do not say that to be mean, but seriously you never make any effort to educate yourself before making statements.

    That was right after the Kickstarter which should have been self-evident just from reading the quotes.  They said that they needed 2-3M more (SURPRISE!!!).  Plus the 900k Kickstarter and his stated 500k so that's 3.4-4.4 Million total.

    They are now sitting at almost $5.5M raised.  Just go to their damn website and look for yourself.


    Not surprisingly their accuracy in budgetary planning resembles their ability to project plan.  When you are Roleplaying a Developer you make quite a few mistakes along the way.  Guess it's not a big deal when you scrap ElyriaMud, VoxElyria and SpatialOS as long as other people are footing your LARPing bill.




    .. you know.. at this point, I am sitting here, really pondering what goes though peoples head when they think that a ground breaking MMO, with never before seen features, can be put out in 2 years on a 5 million budget that comes trickling in as opposed to an upfront sum.

    ... I can't tell if I should laugh at the people who thought that was really going to happen, or cry that these people make up a vocal part of the gaming community.
    LokeroGdemami
  • Nubz_UniteNubz_Unite Member UncommonPosts: 21
    Ungood said:



    .. you know.. at this point, I am sitting here, really pondering what goes though peoples head when they think that a ground breaking MMO, with never before seen features, can be put out in 2 years on a 5 million budget that comes trickling in as opposed to an upfront sum.

    ... I can't tell if I should laugh at the people who thought that was really going to happen, or cry that these people make up a vocal part of the gaming community.
    That's a very fair point, I agree. So then did Caspian openly lie about how expensive it would be too make the game in order to make it more appealing to back? or do we laugh/cry at him since he thought it would only take a 4 million budget to release the game in 2017?
  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 11,666
    Ungood said:
    .. you know.. at this point, I am sitting here, really pondering what goes though peoples head when they think that a ground breaking MMO, with never before seen features, can be put out in 2 years on a 5 million budget that comes trickling in as opposed to an upfront sum.

    ... I can't tell if I should laugh at the people who thought that was really going to happen, or cry that these people make up a vocal part of the gaming community.
    ...so you are a software engineer, a programmer, analyst or even game developer?


    Don't be like THAT guy whos only qualification is ignorance.
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 10,876
    Ungood said:
    Ungood said:
    Ungood said:

    Did they in fact put out an exact amount they would need to fully make the game from start to finish, and also put out the exact amount they have made so far to date?

    Also, a keynote here is if they are working on the game or trying to develop it. If not, than sure, it's just a cash grab, however, if they are putting this money into the game to continue it's development, then it's purely a fundraiser.



    As I said in my earlier post.  Despite promises of transparency IMHO there has been none. We know how much they raised but have no idea how much they spent or what they are spending it on.  We DO know they are FAR beyond what they said they needed for the fully launched game.  Don't care if you call it a cash grab, ineptitude, lying, whatever.  A rose by any other name is still a rose and shit by any other name is still shit.

    From Massively: If we’ve done the math right, you raised $900,000 in Kickstarter, plus a million in self-funding, and now you’re seeking another $3 million, for a rough total of $5 million?

    Not quite. As I mentioned before, we’ve said we’d need about $2M more to get the game out the door, but $3M would be better. Why? We felt it was better to over-state than under-estimate. Again, we’re always trying to set expectations and really didn’t see this coming as a surprise to anyone. However, and this is really important, we’re not seeking any more money right now. A large percentage of the community didn’t get to back us during Kickstarter, and a similarly large group wanted us to open the store so they could upgrade their pledges.

    We’re opening the store because it’s what the community wanted. As we said before, we have a plan to obtain the remaining funds we need. This update most definitely was not “Hey, thanks for the support, now we need $2M more money.” It was solely, “Hey all, as you know, MMOs are expensive and we’re still working to raise another $2M – $3M, but anything you want to contribute further will help.”

    Is that the total budget for the game?

    Yes. That’s what we anticipate is necessary to finish the game completely – including building all the additional content, hiring additional staff, and getting it out the door.

    https://massivelyop.com/2016/09/28/interview-chronicles-of-elyrias-jeromy-walsh-on-post-kickstarter-funding/

    As I said-  It doesn't matter what word you want to use.  Reality is that this has become a black hole that needs to suck in more and more amounts of money to survive.  They will sell anything and everything by any means.  They will sell them directly as they do now in the cash shop and they will sell them indirectly as they are doing in this "event.  They tie the events directly to the amount of money you spend in the store.


    Heaping pile of crap but feel free to name that pile of crap anything you like.  As long as people keep funding Caspien's LARPing attempt at development I guess it's all good.




    Ummm.. they openly say in this quote that they are 2 million short of their needed goal... that's a pretty far cry from:

    All we know is that we are FAR beyond the amount stated for the full game, yet not even in Alpha.
    I mean.. maybe you may have linked the wrong thing.. but.. they openly say "No, we don't have enough to finish this game, we need at least 2 million more, and would like 3 million"

    So.. unless you have something that shows they got that 3 million.. this game is still well below the needed funds to finish it..

    Which might be why it is not in Alpha.

    Sometimes I wonder why I try and inform you and I do not say that to be mean, but seriously you never make any effort to educate yourself before making statements.

    That was right after the Kickstarter which should have been self-evident just from reading the quotes.  They said that they needed 2-3M more (SURPRISE!!!).  Plus the 900k Kickstarter and his stated 500k so that's 3.4-4.4 Million total.

    They are now sitting at almost $5.5M raised.  Just go to their damn website and look for yourself.


    Not surprisingly their accuracy in budgetary planning resembles their ability to project plan.  When you are Roleplaying a Developer you make quite a few mistakes along the way.  Guess it's not a big deal when you scrap ElyriaMud, VoxElyria and SpatialOS as long as other people are footing your LARPing bill.




    .. you know.. at this point, I am sitting here, really pondering what goes though peoples head when they think that a ground breaking MMO, with never before seen features, can be put out in 2 years on a 5 million budget that comes trickling in as opposed to an upfront sum.

    ... I can't tell if I should laugh at the people who thought that was really going to happen, or cry that these people make up a vocal part of the gaming community.
    Some people said his timeline and budget were not feasible.  Caspien mocked those people and assured us that he had his Gantt charts.  Some who said his development plan was overly ambitious and that things like ElyriaMud were wasteful were branded as Harbingers by the dev team in an attempt to discredit us.

    So we do agree on this point though. I also wonder what goes through people’s heads when they think a groundbreaking MMO, with never before seen featured, can be made in 2 years on a $5M budget by an inexperienced dev team.  I include Caspien in this group.

    So now, because of the arrogance of the developer and Ivory Tower we are in a spot where Events such as this one are tied to pocketbook size.  We are stuck with systems that give you Event currency based on store spending. We are stuck with magic items being won in a lottery like fashion.

    In my mind it’s far more egregious because this is all pretty much like how a lootbox works.  Yet we are supposed to believe that publishers and investors were turned down because he told them a cash shop would ruin the game? @AnOldFart what are your thoughts on the above?  Hasn’t this really turned into lootboxes without the box?

    More... far more, of these to come so strap on and open your wallets.
    Gdemami

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

    My ignore list finally has one occupant after 12 years. I am the strongest supporter of free speech on here, but free speech does not mean forced listening. Have fun my friend. Hope you find a new stalking target.

  • rodarinrodarin Member RarePosts: 2,426
    Lokero said:
    Good Lord... you know a project has little out there worth discussing when people spend entire threads arguing over unrelated semantics.
    let me redirect you....

    https://forums.mmorpg.com/categories/star-citizen

    ALL people talk there are semantics. Well the white knights anyway.
  • rodarinrodarin Member RarePosts: 2,426
    Ungood said:


    .. you know.. at this point, I am sitting here, really pondering what goes though peoples head when they think that a ground breaking MMO, with never before seen features, can be put out in 2 years on a 5 million budget that comes trickling in as opposed to an upfront sum.

    ... I can't tell if I should laugh at the people who thought that was really going to happen, or cry that these people make up a vocal part of the gaming community.
    Again let me refer you to...

    https://forums.mmorpg.com/categories/star-citizen
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 10,876
    Ungood said:



    .. you know.. at this point, I am sitting here, really pondering what goes though peoples head when they think that a ground breaking MMO, with never before seen features, can be put out in 2 years on a 5 million budget that comes trickling in as opposed to an upfront sum.

    ... I can't tell if I should laugh at the people who thought that was really going to happen, or cry that these people make up a vocal part of the gaming community.
    That's a very fair point, I agree. So then did Caspian openly lie about how expensive it would be too make the game in order to make it more appealing to back? or do we laugh/cry at him since he thought it would only take a 4 million budget to release the game in 2017?
    In my opinion Caspien honestly believed what he was saying.  That almost makes it worse because it speaks to total naivety and ignorance of reality. This is why I always say they are lacking the adult in the room to keep them grounded.  Instead they have the echo chamber reflecting back how awesome these unrealistic ideas are. Those in the Ivory Tower have done far more to harm this game’s development than any Harbinger.

    Thus we end up here.. with this ridiculous “event” with many more to come.

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

    My ignore list finally has one occupant after 12 years. I am the strongest supporter of free speech on here, but free speech does not mean forced listening. Have fun my friend. Hope you find a new stalking target.

  • rodarinrodarin Member RarePosts: 2,426
    Ungood said:



    .. you know.. at this point, I am sitting here, really pondering what goes though peoples head when they think that a ground breaking MMO, with never before seen features, can be put out in 2 years on a 5 million budget that comes trickling in as opposed to an upfront sum.

    ... I can't tell if I should laugh at the people who thought that was really going to happen, or cry that these people make up a vocal part of the gaming community.
    That's a very fair point, I agree. So then did Caspian openly lie about how expensive it would be too make the game in order to make it more appealing to back? or do we laugh/cry at him since he thought it would only take a 4 million budget to release the game in 2017?
    In my opinion Caspien honestly believed what he was saying.  That almost makes it worse because it speaks to total naivety and ignorance of reality. This is why I always say they are lacking the adult in the room to keep them grounded.  Instead they have the echo chamber reflecting back how awesome these unrealistic ideas are. Those in the Ivory Tower have done far more to harm this game’s development than any Harbinger.

    Thus we end up here.. with this ridiculous “event” with many more to come.
    Again I direct you to...

    ahh never mind. Like I said Chris Roberts syndrome has taken over the video game world. They all try and sound and say what he says (while delivering just about as much as he has).

    Look at the guys from Ashes and listen to that spin job interview, now Caspain, hell even the dark age and Pantheon guys are letting Robertisms slide into their descriptions of what theyre doing and what they want to do and how theyre going to get there.
  • UngoodUngood Member EpicPosts: 2,757
    edited December 2018
    Ungood said:



    .. you know.. at this point, I am sitting here, really pondering what goes though peoples head when they think that a ground breaking MMO, with never before seen features, can be put out in 2 years on a 5 million budget that comes trickling in as opposed to an upfront sum.

    ... I can't tell if I should laugh at the people who thought that was really going to happen, or cry that these people make up a vocal part of the gaming community.
    That's a very fair point, I agree. So then did Caspian openly lie about how expensive it would be too make the game in order to make it more appealing to back? or do we laugh/cry at him since he thought it would only take a 4 million budget to release the game in 2017?
    I think if he had gotten the money upfront, he would have been much further along then he is right now, as anyone can tell you, when you need to worry about funding as the project is ongoing that causes all kinds of unnecessary delays and problems, lack of available funds can do more damage to a project then anything else.

    If You Don't believe me, and many don't, Here is something you can do to test this idea, Try building something small, simple, and easy, like say, this Dog House, but only spend 10 dollars at a time. Then try again, with being able to buy all the materials upfront.

    We both know, you will be able to get the project done much faster and easier with the materials at the ready and the upfront budget to make it happen. Same holds true for any and every project that will ever get undertaken.

    So, with that said, his constant needs to keep funding this game from time to time, causing a trickle in of funds, no doubt will result in doubling even tripling his needed overall budget as well as adding years of delay to get this done.

    With that said, even if he got the money upfront, from what I have seen, it takes around a good 5 years to make an MMO, so, I still do not think he would be in Alpha yet, but, I think he would have been at better place, and much further along then he is right now.


    Gdemami said:
    Ungood said:
    .. you know.. at this point, I am sitting here, really pondering what goes though peoples head when they think that a ground breaking MMO, with never before seen features, can be put out in 2 years on a 5 million budget that comes trickling in as opposed to an upfront sum.

    ... I can't tell if I should laugh at the people who thought that was really going to happen, or cry that these people make up a vocal part of the gaming community.
    ...so you are a software engineer, a programmer, analyst or even game developer?


    Don't be like THAT guy whos only qualification is ignorance.
    Hi, since you asked, Analyst. I was a project estimator for a little shy of a decade.

    So, what have you done with your life that gives you any credit into this discussion?

    Don't be THAT guy that asks for cred when you don't have any.
    ConstantineMerusOG_Zorvan
  • ConstantineMerusConstantineMerus Member EpicPosts: 2,689
    Ungood said:
    Ungood said:



    .. you know.. at this point, I am sitting here, really pondering what goes though peoples head when they think that a ground breaking MMO, with never before seen features, can be put out in 2 years on a 5 million budget that comes trickling in as opposed to an upfront sum.

    ... I can't tell if I should laugh at the people who thought that was really going to happen, or cry that these people make up a vocal part of the gaming community.
    That's a very fair point, I agree. So then did Caspian openly lie about how expensive it would be too make the game in order to make it more appealing to back? or do we laugh/cry at him since he thought it would only take a 4 million budget to release the game in 2017?
    I think if he had gotten the money upfront, he would have been much further along then he is right now, as anyone can tell you, when you need to worry about funding as the project is ongoing that causes all kinds of unnecessary delays and problems, lack of available funds can do more damage to a project then anything else.

    If You Don't believe me, and many don't, Here is something you can do to test this idea, Try building something small, simple, and easy, like say, this Dog House, but only spend 10 dollars at a time. Then try again, with being able to buy all the materials upfront.

    We both know, you will be able to get the project done much faster and easier with the materials at the ready and the upfront budget to make it happen. Same holds true for any and every project that will ever get undertaken.

    So, with that said, his constant needs to keep funding this game from time to time, causing a trickle in of funds, no doubt will result in doubling even tripling his needed overall budget as well as adding years of delay to get this done.

    With that said, even if he got the money upfront, from what I have seen, it takes around a good 5 years to make an MMO, so, I still do not think he would be in Alpha yet, but, I think he would have been at better place, and much further along then he is right now.


    Gdemami said:
    Ungood said:
    .. you know.. at this point, I am sitting here, really pondering what goes though peoples head when they think that a ground breaking MMO, with never before seen features, can be put out in 2 years on a 5 million budget that comes trickling in as opposed to an upfront sum.

    ... I can't tell if I should laugh at the people who thought that was really going to happen, or cry that these people make up a vocal part of the gaming community.
    ...so you are a software engineer, a programmer, analyst or even game developer?


    Don't be like THAT guy whos only qualification is ignorance.
    Hi, since you asked, Analyst. I was a project estimator for a little shy of a decade.

    So, what have you done with your life that gives you any credit into this discussion?

    Don't be THAT guy that asks for cred when you don't have any.
    Be that as it may, one doesn't need to be an automotive engineer to realize you can't make a Portofino with a $300k budget neither. Yeah go on don't be shy, you can google Portofino! ;)
    Ungood
    Constantine, The Console Poster

    • "One of the most difficult tasks men can perform, however much others may despise it, is the invention of good games and it cannot be done by men out of touch with their instinctive selves." - Carl Jung
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  • UngoodUngood Member EpicPosts: 2,757
    Ungood said:



    .. you know.. at this point, I am sitting here, really pondering what goes though peoples head when they think that a ground breaking MMO, with never before seen features, can be put out in 2 years on a 5 million budget that comes trickling in as opposed to an upfront sum.

    ... I can't tell if I should laugh at the people who thought that was really going to happen, or cry that these people make up a vocal part of the gaming community.
    That's a very fair point, I agree. So then did Caspian openly lie about how expensive it would be too make the game in order to make it more appealing to back? or do we laugh/cry at him since he thought it would only take a 4 million budget to release the game in 2017?
    In my opinion Caspien honestly believed what he was saying.  That almost makes it worse because it speaks to total naivety and ignorance of reality. This is why I always say they are lacking the adult in the room to keep them grounded.  Instead they have the echo chamber reflecting back how awesome these unrealistic ideas are. Those in the Ivory Tower have done far more to harm this game’s development than any Harbinger.

    Thus we end up here.. with this ridiculous “event” with many more to come.
    I think you are somewhat correct in this.

    From what I have gleaned from all this, is what they need is a solid Project Manager. I have no doubt Caspian is a programmer and game developer, and in many cases a PR grue being able to constantly raise money from crowed funding, so it never sat right with me about your claims they were not game developers, they are in every sense of the word. But, all too often what is overlooked is that there is a whole other field of money and time management that it seems this crew is lacking, which might be why they do not have a backer/producer and hence your feelings that the "Adult in the Room" is missing.

    Makes more sense now.. when I look at it.
  • VrikaVrika Member EpicPosts: 5,683
    Ungood said:
    Ungood said:



    .. you know.. at this point, I am sitting here, really pondering what goes though peoples head when they think that a ground breaking MMO, with never before seen features, can be put out in 2 years on a 5 million budget that comes trickling in as opposed to an upfront sum.

    ... I can't tell if I should laugh at the people who thought that was really going to happen, or cry that these people make up a vocal part of the gaming community.
    That's a very fair point, I agree. So then did Caspian openly lie about how expensive it would be too make the game in order to make it more appealing to back? or do we laugh/cry at him since he thought it would only take a 4 million budget to release the game in 2017?
    In my opinion Caspien honestly believed what he was saying.  That almost makes it worse because it speaks to total naivety and ignorance of reality. This is why I always say they are lacking the adult in the room to keep them grounded.  Instead they have the echo chamber reflecting back how awesome these unrealistic ideas are. Those in the Ivory Tower have done far more to harm this game’s development than any Harbinger.

    Thus we end up here.. with this ridiculous “event” with many more to come.
    I think you are somewhat correct in this.

    From what I have gleaned from all this, is what they need is a solid Project Manager. I have no doubt Caspian is a programmer and game developer, and in many cases a PR grue being able to constantly raise money from crowed funding, so it never sat right with me about your claims they were not game developers, they are in every sense of the word. But, all too often what is overlooked is that there is a whole other field of money and time management that it seems this crew is lacking, which might be why they do not have a backer/producer and hence your feelings that the "Adult in the Room" is missing.

    Makes more sense now.. when I look at it.

    Missteps like SpatialOS and ElyriaMUD are not caused by lack of management expertise, they are caused by someone who lacks required technical knowledge making the technical decisions.
    AnOldFartMadFrenchie
     
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 33,282
    Ungood said:
    Vrika said:
    Vrika said:
    Raising money to develop the game is not a cash grab.
    It is when you hold an event where the team or individual that has spent most real money on your game is the winner.
    No, no it doesn't. A cash grab is when an entity creates a shitty product for the sole purpose of getting money.
    That event is like model example of a shitty product for the sole purpose of making more money.
    That would make it a fund raising event, not a cash grab.

    As long as the money is going into funding the development of the game, it cannot technically be a cash grab. 

    Just in case anyone cares about, you know, using these phrases correctly.

    If not.. well carry on then.

    I couldn't find much on Google regarding the definition of a cash grab, but it appears someone has created a cash grab simulation so we all can be like game devs too.

    Not surprisingly this game appears to a cash grab itself.

    ;)

    https://www.roblox.com/games/1283960312/Cash-Grab-Simulator
    UngoodConstantineMerus

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

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    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

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  • UngoodUngood Member EpicPosts: 2,757
    Vrika said:
    Ungood said:
    Ungood said:



    .. you know.. at this point, I am sitting here, really pondering what goes though peoples head when they think that a ground breaking MMO, with never before seen features, can be put out in 2 years on a 5 million budget that comes trickling in as opposed to an upfront sum.

    ... I can't tell if I should laugh at the people who thought that was really going to happen, or cry that these people make up a vocal part of the gaming community.
    That's a very fair point, I agree. So then did Caspian openly lie about how expensive it would be too make the game in order to make it more appealing to back? or do we laugh/cry at him since he thought it would only take a 4 million budget to release the game in 2017?
    In my opinion Caspien honestly believed what he was saying.  That almost makes it worse because it speaks to total naivety and ignorance of reality. This is why I always say they are lacking the adult in the room to keep them grounded.  Instead they have the echo chamber reflecting back how awesome these unrealistic ideas are. Those in the Ivory Tower have done far more to harm this game’s development than any Harbinger.

    Thus we end up here.. with this ridiculous “event” with many more to come.
    I think you are somewhat correct in this.

    From what I have gleaned from all this, is what they need is a solid Project Manager. I have no doubt Caspian is a programmer and game developer, and in many cases a PR grue being able to constantly raise money from crowed funding, so it never sat right with me about your claims they were not game developers, they are in every sense of the word. But, all too often what is overlooked is that there is a whole other field of money and time management that it seems this crew is lacking, which might be why they do not have a backer/producer and hence your feelings that the "Adult in the Room" is missing.

    Makes more sense now.. when I look at it.

    Missteps like SpatialOS and ElyriaMUD are not caused by lack of management expertise, they are caused by someone who lacks required technical knowledge making the technical decisions.
    I am not trying to defend the guy with what I am about to say, just shedding some light here.

    Given the scope of this project and how unique it appears to be, technically no one has the Technical Knowledge to know what the end result of those experiments would be.

    Just want to put that out there.. before you burn the guy in effigy..

    Now that I have said that.. you can light the torches and pitch forks again.
    StaalBurgher
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