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  • JeffSpicoliJeffSpicoli Member EpicPosts: 2,849
    mcrippins said:
    1. They've kept it pretty quiet in regards to showing us actual content. There's some out there, but not much. Not gonna lie - I kinda love this.

    2. There's a lot of ppl who do not like the developers because of some mistakes with Ark. Personally I could care less and loved Ark. It is a game that's way ahead of its time, and can't wait to see what these devs do here.
    Yeah nothing is better in gaming then walking into a game of this scale blind. You can really spoil a game for yourself by learning every facet of play. I always felt like this was No Mans Sky undoing when it first launched, they released to much info over the course of a year and then people just focused on what wasn't there.

      As far as Atlas goes the trailer looks amazing, I just hope the lack of gameplay footage is devs wanting us to walk in blind and be blown away as opposed to avoiding game play footage because the game is boarder line unplayable.

    Either way this is a day one purchase for me. Personally i think this will launch in a messy state and then become something special a year from now much like Conan Exiles
    mcrippins
    • Aloha Mr Hand ! 

  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member EpicPosts: 7,275
    rodarin said:
    Its not being a carebear its watching a dying genre continue to strangle itself completely out of existence by trying to force PvP (and open world full loot PvP to boot) on people.

    There has never ever been (and they have certainly tried) a PvP centric let alone a full on PvP gankfest full loot campers delight game even be close to viable let alone popular. How many PvP games have there been? A half a dozen at least, and just as many still in development now. They dont work they wont work and they never will work.

    It shows a special kind of stupid for these people for continually trying to ram it down our throats. I suspect they think because a bunch of sociopaths love these battle royal type games its a green light that a PvP focused MMO still has a chance. That basically shows how completely out of touch they are with reality.

    If your favorite game ever was even close to the point where their gameplay choices were worth debating then they would be just the next example of complete disconnect with reality.

    ANY game, I dont care what it is that has a full fledged open world (not specific zones but every area of the map) where PvP is allowed it has ZERO ZERO ZERO chance of being any sort of profitable title. Unless of course they do what youre guys are doing, stay in perpetual development rip 500 million from 'backers' and spend 50 million on something and call it a game.
    The dying genre is not related to PvP or PvE, it is related to lack of ambitious game developers and a formula that has been over-milked and people are tired of.

    The PvP experience that a game like LiF MMO and Atlas aim for, is actually on demand and the reason why say LiF didn't turn well is because their game was broken due to the awful engine, NOT because the game design and idea was wrong.

    The only thing that is missing, is for a developer to do a decently polished open-world sandbox PvEvP MMO, because that was not been properly done yet.

    Amazon's New World is one with a good shot at it, their engine is good, far more polished game experience that I played that they have to continuously develop and expand. That will be attractive.

    Games like Conqueror's Blade also PvP MMO also snatching quite the interest when they did the main beta event, also while linear experience it is decently polished too.

    So no, there IS demand for PvP focused MMO's, especially with the sandbox/survival aspect that has been for so long contained to small MP servers that due to limited MP scale can't achieve a good guild-play/conquest and economy.
    JeffSpicoliSovrathKyleranpoobin420
  • LokeroLokero Member RarePosts: 1,514
    Kyleran said:
    rodarin said:
    rodarin said:
    MaxBacon said:
    This site is full of PvE Carebears that have to shoot down any upcoming PvP MMO, something I can't understand the vast majority of MMO's already is PvE focused, there is lack of varied offer on the PvP setting not the PvE one.

    The New World by Amazon is another one on this thing, that MMO in dev gets shot down for being PvP focused too, having game loops more on trade, guild play and territorial conquest.
    Its not being a carebear its watching a dying genre continue to strangle itself completely out of existence by trying to force PvP (and open world full loot PvP to boot) on people.

    There has never ever been (and they have certainly tried) a PvP centric let alone a full on PvP gankfest full loot campers delight game even be close to viable let alone popular. How many PvP games have there been? A half a dozen at least, and just as many still in development now. They dont work they wont work and they never will work.

    It shows a special kind of stupid for these people for continually trying to ram it down our throats. I suspect they think because a bunch of sociopaths love these battle royal type games its a green light that a PvP focused MMO still has a chance. That basically shows how completely out of touch they are with reality.

    If your favorite game ever was even close to the point where their gameplay choices were worth debating then they would be just the next example of complete disconnect with reality.

    ANY game, I dont care what it is that has a full fledged open world (not specific zones but every area of the map) where PvP is allowed it has ZERO ZERO ZERO chance of being any sort of profitable title. Unless of course they do what youre guys are doing, stay in perpetual development rip 500 million from 'backers' and spend 50 million on something and call it a game.

    Most of the PVP focused games include MASSIVE grinds that are not fun for PVE or PVP folk, and have been led by small teams that were unable to find a good balance. There are certainly games that have been difficult that have been popular, like Ultima Online, still running strong and there are tons of EMU servers up.

    And seriously, a fk'ing nough of calling fans of PVP sociopaths, because they like competition against real people. Honestly, it's people like you who cause them to get "toxic" and push the stick up the backdoor a little harder.. it just becomes comical. And speaking of reality, the most popular games are centered around player vs player combat, so maybe you need to look around a little more because you have ZERO ZERO ZERO clue on what you're talking about.
    LOL you must miss all the streams where streamers go mental (over a game) if they lose. Or ones where guys beat up their wives live. Or guys go to streamers houses to threaten them. And any other completely deranged thing people who play these games do on a daily basis.

    Oh and lets all forget about Jacksonville while we are at it
    Or all the "swell" videos of streamers being "SWATTED", there's even a top 10 list. 

    Sure it can happen in a PVE focused game, but far lower risk of it occurring,  unless someone ninja loots the dragon.....

    ;)
    That's true in the sense that it's more likely to happen in a PVP focused game.

    It's silly to assume, however, that there are proportionately more sociopaths playing those PVP games.  Crazy people have varied interests, same as anyone else.
    In other words, the PVP games may have more of a chance than PVE to set crazy people off due to the competition.  But, that doesn't signify that sociopaths are drawn to one particular interest or whatever.

    You simply don't see the nuts playing PVE snap as much in those games, because those games don't offer as many outlet triggers towards other people.  But, they are still there and still getting set off by other stuff and doing crazy crap IRL.  We just don't hear about it.

    You hear about the PVP ones more, because they are direct player-to-player confrontations over long distance(the only way to lash out against another player is through long distance means -- swatting, etc.) and because they are video-game related aggressions.  The media eats video-game related incidents up.

    While some PVP player is in the news being reported for swattings, some PVE player is equally snapping and killing someone in a parking lot because he stole his parking space.

    As for Twitch guy, that could just as easily have been some dude streaming a raid in a PVE setting.  That was just domestic violence and completely unrelated to the activity(other than the fact that he wouldn't stop).
    Kyleran
  • VinterkrigVinterkrig Member UncommonPosts: 1,862
    edited December 2018
    MaxBacon said:
    rodarin said:
    Its not being a carebear its watching a dying genre continue to strangle itself completely out of existence by trying to force PvP (and open world full loot PvP to boot) on people.

    There has never ever been (and they have certainly tried) a PvP centric let alone a full on PvP gankfest full loot campers delight game even be close to viable let alone popular. How many PvP games have there been? A half a dozen at least, and just as many still in development now. They dont work they wont work and they never will work.

    It shows a special kind of stupid for these people for continually trying to ram it down our throats. I suspect they think because a bunch of sociopaths love these battle royal type games its a green light that a PvP focused MMO still has a chance. That basically shows how completely out of touch they are with reality.

    If your favorite game ever was even close to the point where their gameplay choices were worth debating then they would be just the next example of complete disconnect with reality.

    ANY game, I dont care what it is that has a full fledged open world (not specific zones but every area of the map) where PvP is allowed it has ZERO ZERO ZERO chance of being any sort of profitable title. Unless of course they do what youre guys are doing, stay in perpetual development rip 500 million from 'backers' and spend 50 million on something and call it a game.
    The dying genre is not related to PvP or PvE, it is related to lack of ambitious game developers and a formula that has been over-milked and people are tired of.

    The PvP experience that a game like LiF MMO and Atlas aim for, is actually on demand and the reason why say LiF didn't turn well is because their game was broken due to the awful engine, NOT because the game design and idea was wrong.

    The only thing that is missing, is for a developer to do a decently polished open-world sandbox PvEvP MMO, because that was not been properly done yet.

    Amazon's New World is one with a good shot at it, their engine is good, far more polished game experience that I played that they have to continuously develop and expand. That will be attractive.

    Games like Conqueror's Blade also PvP MMO also snatching quite the interest when they did the main beta event, also while linear experience it is decently polished too.

    So no, there IS demand for PvP focused MMO's, especially with the sandbox/survival aspect that has been for so long contained to small MP servers that due to limited MP scale can't achieve a good guild-play/conquest and economy.

    I'd say MMOs are dying in general because of the lack of ambitious game developers, yes. I wouldn't say that's really what he's getting at. He's talking about games like Dark Fall, and ultimately games like that fail because the only way you could be competitive in a game like that was to leave your character online 24/7 leveling skills while AFK. If you join in late, you have no chance. 


    But this guy likes to use anecdotal evidence to claim people who enjoy PVP are sociopaths, so really who gives two flying fks about what he thinks.
  • mcrippinsmcrippins Member RarePosts: 1,453
    For those concerned about this being a PvP only game - taken from the description of the game on Steam:

    MMO On the Grandest Scale

    Physically sail in real-time across the vast oceans with the proprietary server network technology. Explorers will voyage to over 700 unique landmasses across 45,000 square kilometers, with thousands of Discovery Zones, and ten distinct world regions each having their own unique resources, creatures, secrets, and environment hazards! There is a separate PvE ATLAS for players who don't wish to play any PVP. 
    MadFrenchieEvilGeekdeniter
  • rodarinrodarin Member EpicPosts: 2,562
    MaxBacon said:
    rodarin said:
    Its not being a carebear its watching a dying genre continue to strangle itself completely out of existence by trying to force PvP (and open world full loot PvP to boot) on people.

    There has never ever been (and they have certainly tried) a PvP centric let alone a full on PvP gankfest full loot campers delight game even be close to viable let alone popular. How many PvP games have there been? A half a dozen at least, and just as many still in development now. They dont work they wont work and they never will work.

    It shows a special kind of stupid for these people for continually trying to ram it down our throats. I suspect they think because a bunch of sociopaths love these battle royal type games its a green light that a PvP focused MMO still has a chance. That basically shows how completely out of touch they are with reality.

    If your favorite game ever was even close to the point where their gameplay choices were worth debating then they would be just the next example of complete disconnect with reality.

    ANY game, I dont care what it is that has a full fledged open world (not specific zones but every area of the map) where PvP is allowed it has ZERO ZERO ZERO chance of being any sort of profitable title. Unless of course they do what youre guys are doing, stay in perpetual development rip 500 million from 'backers' and spend 50 million on something and call it a game.
    The dying genre is not related to PvP or PvE, it is related to lack of ambitious game developers and a formula that has been over-milked and people are tired of.

    The PvP experience that a game like LiF MMO and Atlas aim for, is actually on demand and the reason why say LiF didn't turn well is because their game was broken due to the awful engine, NOT because the game design and idea was wrong.

    The only thing that is missing, is for a developer to do a decently polished open-world sandbox PvEvP MMO, because that was not been properly done yet.

    Amazon's New World is one with a good shot at it, their engine is good, far more polished game experience that I played that they have to continuously develop and expand. That will be attractive.

    Games like Conqueror's Blade also PvP MMO also snatching quite the interest when they did the main beta event, also while linear experience it is decently polished too.

    So no, there IS demand for PvP focused MMO's, especially with the sandbox/survival aspect that has been for so long contained to small MP servers that due to limited MP scale can't achieve a good guild-play/conquest and economy.
    LMAO LIF has the best engine ever made WTF are you talking about? There isnt an engine anywhere that lets you do what that one does. Your fascination with engines is awesome especially since you dont know WTF youre talking about half the time and cling to the worst engine ever made for MMOS and your  prophet Chris Roberts continuing to try and make it work for his disaster of a project. Disaster only in terms of actually making a playable game not in term of milking players. Which you also ironically love to mention all the time. And cite said engine again here with Amazons failure waiting to release project.

    Youre as Myopic and egocentric as these clowns making video games, as if theyre going to be THE ONE who FINALLY 'gets it right'. And make THE end all be all of PvP MMOS and everyone will flock to it.

    LiF MMO had the open everything goes full loot system PvP window and that is why most people didnt want anything to do with it. Who wants to spend the hours it takes in that game grinding only to lose stuff during their magic hour or two or whatever it was? Also if you died you lost hours of progression on your character as well. On the private servers in the Your Own version thousands of people were playing it until it got old and stale due to them not developing that portion anymore to focus on the MMO. All anyone has to do is look at every single game there is like ARK and LiF and whatever other 'survival' type games that allow server hosting and looking at the populations on PvP one and PvE ones. And the more harsh the PvP setting the lower the population across every game like that with no exceptions. But the irony is those games need some sort of PvP, but not full on full loot forced PvP.

    As far as the grind in other MMOs. Thats an excuse. People like shooters because theyre filled with these ADD people who cant focus on anything for more than 20-30 minutes tops and with nothing 'invested' they dont care. So getting killed in them (unless they are in a top 10 or something) doesnt mean anything. Thats why I say these people have mental problems because getting killed instantly doesnt bother them but if they put even a little time in get close and die THEN they lose their minds. So the breakdown is related to how much time and 'effort' they pout into it. But on a grand scale they arent putting much of anything into these BR games. MMOS are fundamentally about advancing and goals (or they used to be). People dont want to put days weeks months into something and then have some asshat come along and destroy it.

    ARK proved it out. Even a short term input of time and effort on the official PvP type servers sucked when someone or a group came and destroyed everything you built and killed all the dinosaurs you spent hours taming. There has to be a balance between risk and reward and no open world PvP game has it or ever will because people are stuck with shit they 'learned' 20 years ago.

    Look at the only games right now with populations even worth talking about...WoW, ESO, BDO, GW 2, FFXIV. What do they all have in common? They all have PvP but they all separate it from PvE and its all voluntary with the exception of WoW assuming of course there are still PvP zones in it. Where you might have to cross one to do something but going in is still a voluntary act.

    People can make any game anyway they want. But if they want people to buy it and play it they have to smarten up. LiF was one of the best concepts ever. I was in on it from the beginning. I dont know how many posts we had telling those guys the huge mistakes they were making with their MMO direction and how they absolutely refused to listen to anything and had a complete hardline stance on how they were going to make their game. And we saw what happened.
  • rodarinrodarin Member EpicPosts: 2,562
    mcrippins said:
    For those concerned about this being a PvP only game - taken from the description of the game on Steam:

    MMO On the Grandest Scale

    Physically sail in real-time across the vast oceans with the proprietary server network technology. Explorers will voyage to over 700 unique landmasses across 45,000 square kilometers, with thousands of Discovery Zones, and ten distinct world regions each having their own unique resources, creatures, secrets, and environment hazards! There is a separate PvE ATLAS for players who don't wish to play any PVP. 
    Problem is these games get boring really fast without some sort of PvP. Thats the whole point. ALL or NOTHING doesnt work. With a map that big, as I said before there is ample room to have areas of PvP and areas of PvE on the same map. Either theyre not smart enough to figure it out (the most likely reason) or theyre too lazy to do it or they dont have the money to do it.
  • rodarinrodarin Member EpicPosts: 2,562
    Lokero said:

    While some PVP player is in the news being reported for swattings, some PVE player is equally snapping and killing someone in a parking lot because he stole his parking space.


    If you dont see the complete difference between those two examples then I dont know what to say.
  • KajidourdenKajidourden Member EpicPosts: 3,019
    Why would there be?  It's going to be another grief-fest shit-show unoptimized buggy mess like ARK, except....pirates; big whoop.
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,505
    Lokero said:
    Kyleran said:
    rodarin said:
    rodarin said:
    MaxBacon said:
    This site is full of PvE Carebears that have to shoot down any upcoming PvP MMO, something I can't understand the vast majority of MMO's already is PvE focused, there is lack of varied offer on the PvP setting not the PvE one.

    The New World by Amazon is another one on this thing, that MMO in dev gets shot down for being PvP focused too, having game loops more on trade, guild play and territorial conquest.
    Its not being a carebear its watching a dying genre continue to strangle itself completely out of existence by trying to force PvP (and open world full loot PvP to boot) on people.

    There has never ever been (and they have certainly tried) a PvP centric let alone a full on PvP gankfest full loot campers delight game even be close to viable let alone popular. How many PvP games have there been? A half a dozen at least, and just as many still in development now. They dont work they wont work and they never will work.

    It shows a special kind of stupid for these people for continually trying to ram it down our throats. I suspect they think because a bunch of sociopaths love these battle royal type games its a green light that a PvP focused MMO still has a chance. That basically shows how completely out of touch they are with reality.

    If your favorite game ever was even close to the point where their gameplay choices were worth debating then they would be just the next example of complete disconnect with reality.

    ANY game, I dont care what it is that has a full fledged open world (not specific zones but every area of the map) where PvP is allowed it has ZERO ZERO ZERO chance of being any sort of profitable title. Unless of course they do what youre guys are doing, stay in perpetual development rip 500 million from 'backers' and spend 50 million on something and call it a game.

    Most of the PVP focused games include MASSIVE grinds that are not fun for PVE or PVP folk, and have been led by small teams that were unable to find a good balance. There are certainly games that have been difficult that have been popular, like Ultima Online, still running strong and there are tons of EMU servers up.

    And seriously, a fk'ing nough of calling fans of PVP sociopaths, because they like competition against real people. Honestly, it's people like you who cause them to get "toxic" and push the stick up the backdoor a little harder.. it just becomes comical. And speaking of reality, the most popular games are centered around player vs player combat, so maybe you need to look around a little more because you have ZERO ZERO ZERO clue on what you're talking about.
    LOL you must miss all the streams where streamers go mental (over a game) if they lose. Or ones where guys beat up their wives live. Or guys go to streamers houses to threaten them. And any other completely deranged thing people who play these games do on a daily basis.

    Oh and lets all forget about Jacksonville while we are at it
    Or all the "swell" videos of streamers being "SWATTED", there's even a top 10 list. 

    Sure it can happen in a PVE focused game, but far lower risk of it occurring,  unless someone ninja loots the dragon.....

    ;)
    That's true in the sense that it's more likely to happen in a PVP focused game.

    It's silly to assume, however, that there are proportionately more sociopaths playing those PVP games.  Crazy people have varied interests, same as anyone else.
    In other words, the PVP games may have more of a chance than PVE to set crazy people off due to the competition.  But, that doesn't signify that sociopaths are drawn to one particular interest or whatever.

    You simply don't see the nuts playing PVE snap as much in those games, because those games don't offer as many outlet triggers towards other people.  But, they are still there and still getting set off by other stuff and doing crazy crap IRL.  We just don't hear about it.

    You hear about the PVP ones more, because they are direct player-to-player confrontations over long distance(the only way to lash out against another player is through long distance means -- swatting, etc.) and because they are video-game related aggressions.  The media eats video-game related incidents up.

    While some PVP player is in the news being reported for swattings, some PVE player is equally snapping and killing someone in a parking lot because he stole his parking space.

    As for Twitch guy, that could just as easily have been some dude streaming a raid in a PVE setting.  That was just domestic violence and completely unrelated to the activity(other than the fact that he wouldn't stop).
    The type of experience (competitive or cooperative) does attract gamers with differing personalities.  That's not to say the two are mutually exclusive, but those who are not attracted to competitive games as opposed to cooperative ones are likely attracted to that same competition in other aspects of life.

    Competition naturally lends itself to confrontation more than cooperation.

    Additionally, both are results of extrinsic pressures on behavior, as opposed to completely intrinsic ones.  As such, I agree we should exercise caution when we try to prescribe precise attributes to groups of people who enjoy one type or another.

    image
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 36,165
    edited December 2018
    Lokero said:
    Kyleran said:
    rodarin said:
    rodarin said:
    MaxBacon said:
    This site is full of PvE Carebears that have to shoot down any upcoming PvP MMO, something I can't understand the vast majority of MMO's already is PvE focused, there is lack of varied offer on the PvP setting not the PvE one.

    The New World by Amazon is another one on this thing, that MMO in dev gets shot down for being PvP focused too, having game loops more on trade, guild play and territorial conquest.
    Its not being a carebear its watching a dying genre continue to strangle itself completely out of existence by trying to force PvP (and open world full loot PvP to boot) on people.

    There has never ever been (and they have certainly tried) a PvP centric let alone a full on PvP gankfest full loot campers delight game even be close to viable let alone popular. How many PvP games have there been? A half a dozen at least, and just as many still in development now. They dont work they wont work and they never will work.

    It shows a special kind of stupid for these people for continually trying to ram it down our throats. I suspect they think because a bunch of sociopaths love these battle royal type games its a green light that a PvP focused MMO still has a chance. That basically shows how completely out of touch they are with reality.

    If your favorite game ever was even close to the point where their gameplay choices were worth debating then they would be just the next example of complete disconnect with reality.

    ANY game, I dont care what it is that has a full fledged open world (not specific zones but every area of the map) where PvP is allowed it has ZERO ZERO ZERO chance of being any sort of profitable title. Unless of course they do what youre guys are doing, stay in perpetual development rip 500 million from 'backers' and spend 50 million on something and call it a game.

    Most of the PVP focused games include MASSIVE grinds that are not fun for PVE or PVP folk, and have been led by small teams that were unable to find a good balance. There are certainly games that have been difficult that have been popular, like Ultima Online, still running strong and there are tons of EMU servers up.

    And seriously, a fk'ing nough of calling fans of PVP sociopaths, because they like competition against real people. Honestly, it's people like you who cause them to get "toxic" and push the stick up the backdoor a little harder.. it just becomes comical. And speaking of reality, the most popular games are centered around player vs player combat, so maybe you need to look around a little more because you have ZERO ZERO ZERO clue on what you're talking about.
    LOL you must miss all the streams where streamers go mental (over a game) if they lose. Or ones where guys beat up their wives live. Or guys go to streamers houses to threaten them. And any other completely deranged thing people who play these games do on a daily basis.

    Oh and lets all forget about Jacksonville while we are at it
    Or all the "swell" videos of streamers being "SWATTED", there's even a top 10 list. 

    Sure it can happen in a PVE focused game, but far lower risk of it occurring,  unless someone ninja loots the dragon.....

    ;)
    That's true in the sense that it's more likely to happen in a PVP focused game.

    It's silly to assume, however, that there are proportionately more sociopaths playing those PVP games.  Crazy people have varied interests, same as anyone else.
    In other words, the PVP games may have more of a chance than PVE to set crazy people off due to the competition.  But, that doesn't signify that sociopaths are drawn to one particular interest or whatever.

    You simply don't see the nuts playing PVE snap as much in those games, because those games don't offer as many outlet triggers towards other people.  But, they are still there and still getting set off by other stuff and doing crazy crap IRL.  We just don't hear about it.

    You hear about the PVP ones more, because they are direct player-to-player confrontations over long distance(the only way to lash out against another player is through long distance means -- swatting, etc.) and because they are video-game related aggressions.  The media eats video-game related incidents up.

    While some PVP player is in the news being reported for swattings, some PVE player is equally snapping and killing someone in a parking lot because he stole his parking space.

    As for Twitch guy, that could just as easily have been some dude streaming a raid in a PVE setting.  That was just domestic violence and completely unrelated to the activity(other than the fact that he wouldn't stop).
    I know the crazies are everywhere, it's just most PVE centric game present fewer opportunities for people to show their bad side.

    Being a long time EVE player (yet firmly a carebear) I've found the game to have the best community out of most MMOs I've played, mostly as cooperating with others is important and pissing off others unnecessarily can have unwanted consequences.


    Lokero

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing FO76 at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • LokeroLokero Member RarePosts: 1,514
    Kyleran said:
    I know the crazies are everywhere, it's just most PVE centric game present fewer opportunities for people to show their bad side.

    Being a long time EVE player (yet firmly a carebear) I've found the game to have the best community out of most MMOs I've played, mostly as cooperating with others is important and pissing off others unnecessarily can have unwanted consequences.
    MadFrenchie said:

    Competition naturally lends itself to confrontation more than cooperation.

    That brings up a more interesting topic, imo, really, though.

    Depending on the environment, it's well-known that a competitive atmosphere can actually increase cooperation and social commitment.
    Sure, in an individualized situation, you'll likely have more confrontation, because it's every man for himself. 
    But, in any type of situation where teaming up nets a benefit, people tend to become quite cooperative and willing to ally and bond and even defend each other.

    As Kyleran is saying, cooperation is important for personal success in many competitive situations.  I think most people widely consider EVE to be a pretty hardcore PVP-centric game.

    I've often found that to be the case in competitive games, sports, etc.
    Sure, you have the angry psychopaths who are going to snap.  And, we are all familiar with the griefer type personalities.
    But, they tend to be the internet version of the "vocal minority".

    On topic to the actual game the thread is about:

    In theory, and yes, it's pure theory... If Atlas set up the game in the right way, to where land ownership and territory control and such actually had a real purpose, other than an excuse to fight, it could potentially breed a cooperative atmosphere.

    P.S.
    I wonder how counterproductive and well-received some of the other mechanics will be, though -- ex. characters dying of old age.
    The only game I ever remember playing with a successful aging mechanic was The Guild, but that was a single-player family dynasty game.
  • HeretiqueHeretique Member RarePosts: 1,500
    Not too fond of the developers but they do have great ideas, just need them to execute properly. Just hard to get hyped when you know it will be a buggy mess, it's pretty much their M.O. at the moment.
    TorvalKyleran
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 36,165
    Heretique said:
    Not too fond of the developers but they do have great ideas, just need them to execute properly. Just hard to get hyped when you know it will be a buggy mess, it's pretty much their M.O. at the moment.
    Its pretty clear Snail Games intends to reskin and relaunch their survival game assets every 6 months or so in a new theme.

    Dinos, High Fantasy, Heroes and now Pirates. 

    Reminds me of how Sergi T. operates,  Smail just does it better.
    Vinterkrig

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing FO76 at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 19,934
    Kyleran said:
    Heretique said:
    Not too fond of the developers but they do have great ideas, just need them to execute properly. Just hard to get hyped when you know it will be a buggy mess, it's pretty much their M.O. at the moment.
    Its pretty clear Snail Games intends to reskin and relaunch their survival game assets every 6 months or so in a new theme.

    Dinos, High Fantasy, Heroes and now Pirates. 

    Reminds me of how Sergi T. operates,  Smail just does it better.
    That's basically what the Total War franchise does with a few mechanical differences between games. I don't have a problem with that if it is done well. It can be done well or it can end up a cash grab. It's hard to tell until you dive in. This is why every game should have a trial demo.
    VinterkrigKyleran
    Fedora - A modern, free, and open source Operating System. https://getfedora.org/

    traveller, interloper, anomaly, iteration


  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,505
    Torval said:
    Kyleran said:
    Heretique said:
    Not too fond of the developers but they do have great ideas, just need them to execute properly. Just hard to get hyped when you know it will be a buggy mess, it's pretty much their M.O. at the moment.
    Its pretty clear Snail Games intends to reskin and relaunch their survival game assets every 6 months or so in a new theme.

    Dinos, High Fantasy, Heroes and now Pirates. 

    Reminds me of how Sergi T. operates,  Smail just does it better.
    That's basically what the Total War franchise does with a few mechanical differences between games. I don't have a problem with that if it is done well. It can be done well or it can end up a cash grab. It's hard to tell until you dive in. This is why every game should have a trial demo.
    Yeah, that kinda rubs me wrong with Total War sometimes (the massive amounts of civ packs they dice up and charge individually is not incredibly consumer-friendly), but if you compare titles like Shogun and Warhammer, they are significantly different.

    Kinda gotta wait and see with the TW franchise.

    image
  • Panther2103Panther2103 Member EpicPosts: 5,556
    rodarin said:
    rodarin said:
    MaxBacon said:
    This site is full of PvE Carebears that have to shoot down any upcoming PvP MMO, something I can't understand the vast majority of MMO's already is PvE focused, there is lack of varied offer on the PvP setting not the PvE one.

    The New World by Amazon is another one on this thing, that MMO in dev gets shot down for being PvP focused too, having game loops more on trade, guild play and territorial conquest.
    Its not being a carebear its watching a dying genre continue to strangle itself completely out of existence by trying to force PvP (and open world full loot PvP to boot) on people.

    There has never ever been (and they have certainly tried) a PvP centric let alone a full on PvP gankfest full loot campers delight game even be close to viable let alone popular. How many PvP games have there been? A half a dozen at least, and just as many still in development now. They dont work they wont work and they never will work.

    It shows a special kind of stupid for these people for continually trying to ram it down our throats. I suspect they think because a bunch of sociopaths love these battle royal type games its a green light that a PvP focused MMO still has a chance. That basically shows how completely out of touch they are with reality.

    If your favorite game ever was even close to the point where their gameplay choices were worth debating then they would be just the next example of complete disconnect with reality.

    ANY game, I dont care what it is that has a full fledged open world (not specific zones but every area of the map) where PvP is allowed it has ZERO ZERO ZERO chance of being any sort of profitable title. Unless of course they do what youre guys are doing, stay in perpetual development rip 500 million from 'backers' and spend 50 million on something and call it a game.

    Most of the PVP focused games include MASSIVE grinds that are not fun for PVE or PVP folk, and have been led by small teams that were unable to find a good balance. There are certainly games that have been difficult that have been popular, like Ultima Online, still running strong and there are tons of EMU servers up.

    And seriously, a fk'ing nough of calling fans of PVP sociopaths, because they like competition against real people. Honestly, it's people like you who cause them to get "toxic" and push the stick up the backdoor a little harder.. it just becomes comical. And speaking of reality, the most popular games are centered around player vs player combat, so maybe you need to look around a little more because you have ZERO ZERO ZERO clue on what you're talking about.
    LOL you must miss all the streams where streamers go mental (over a game) if they lose. Or ones where guys beat up their wives live. Or guys go to streamers houses to threaten them. And any other completely deranged thing people who play these games do on a daily basis.

    Oh and lets all forget about Jacksonville while we are at it
    So what you are saying is, streamers who are bad people, are still bad people even while streaming? Weird.

    Just because bad people get attention, doesn't mean everyone who likes a specific type of game are all bad people. I love PvP games, but I'm not out curb stomping people who beat me in them. 
    Vinterkrig
  • VinterkrigVinterkrig Member UncommonPosts: 1,862
    rodarin said:
    rodarin said:
    MaxBacon said:
    This site is full of PvE Carebears that have to shoot down any upcoming PvP MMO, something I can't understand the vast majority of MMO's already is PvE focused, there is lack of varied offer on the PvP setting not the PvE one.

    The New World by Amazon is another one on this thing, that MMO in dev gets shot down for being PvP focused too, having game loops more on trade, guild play and territorial conquest.
    Its not being a carebear its watching a dying genre continue to strangle itself completely out of existence by trying to force PvP (and open world full loot PvP to boot) on people.

    There has never ever been (and they have certainly tried) a PvP centric let alone a full on PvP gankfest full loot campers delight game even be close to viable let alone popular. How many PvP games have there been? A half a dozen at least, and just as many still in development now. They dont work they wont work and they never will work.

    It shows a special kind of stupid for these people for continually trying to ram it down our throats. I suspect they think because a bunch of sociopaths love these battle royal type games its a green light that a PvP focused MMO still has a chance. That basically shows how completely out of touch they are with reality.

    If your favorite game ever was even close to the point where their gameplay choices were worth debating then they would be just the next example of complete disconnect with reality.

    ANY game, I dont care what it is that has a full fledged open world (not specific zones but every area of the map) where PvP is allowed it has ZERO ZERO ZERO chance of being any sort of profitable title. Unless of course they do what youre guys are doing, stay in perpetual development rip 500 million from 'backers' and spend 50 million on something and call it a game.

    Most of the PVP focused games include MASSIVE grinds that are not fun for PVE or PVP folk, and have been led by small teams that were unable to find a good balance. There are certainly games that have been difficult that have been popular, like Ultima Online, still running strong and there are tons of EMU servers up.

    And seriously, a fk'ing nough of calling fans of PVP sociopaths, because they like competition against real people. Honestly, it's people like you who cause them to get "toxic" and push the stick up the backdoor a little harder.. it just becomes comical. And speaking of reality, the most popular games are centered around player vs player combat, so maybe you need to look around a little more because you have ZERO ZERO ZERO clue on what you're talking about.
    LOL you must miss all the streams where streamers go mental (over a game) if they lose. Or ones where guys beat up their wives live. Or guys go to streamers houses to threaten them. And any other completely deranged thing people who play these games do on a daily basis.

    Oh and lets all forget about Jacksonville while we are at it
    So what you are saying is, streamers who are bad people, are still bad people even while streaming? Weird.

    Just because bad people get attention, doesn't mean everyone who likes a specific type of game are all bad people. I love PvP games, but I'm not out curb stomping people who beat me in them. 

    Exactly, my wife is an avid pvp'er, she doesn't do a whole lot but that... she's an amazing nurse practitioner, and is beyond compassionate and goes an extra few miles (for no extra pay) to help her people out...really she's probably nicer to them than she is to me.. haha
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 36,165
    rodarin said:
    rodarin said:
    MaxBacon said:
    This site is full of PvE Carebears that have to shoot down any upcoming PvP MMO, something I can't understand the vast majority of MMO's already is PvE focused, there is lack of varied offer on the PvP setting not the PvE one.

    The New World by Amazon is another one on this thing, that MMO in dev gets shot down for being PvP focused too, having game loops more on trade, guild play and territorial conquest.
    Its not being a carebear its watching a dying genre continue to strangle itself completely out of existence by trying to force PvP (and open world full loot PvP to boot) on people.

    There has never ever been (and they have certainly tried) a PvP centric let alone a full on PvP gankfest full loot campers delight game even be close to viable let alone popular. How many PvP games have there been? A half a dozen at least, and just as many still in development now. They dont work they wont work and they never will work.

    It shows a special kind of stupid for these people for continually trying to ram it down our throats. I suspect they think because a bunch of sociopaths love these battle royal type games its a green light that a PvP focused MMO still has a chance. That basically shows how completely out of touch they are with reality.

    If your favorite game ever was even close to the point where their gameplay choices were worth debating then they would be just the next example of complete disconnect with reality.

    ANY game, I dont care what it is that has a full fledged open world (not specific zones but every area of the map) where PvP is allowed it has ZERO ZERO ZERO chance of being any sort of profitable title. Unless of course they do what youre guys are doing, stay in perpetual development rip 500 million from 'backers' and spend 50 million on something and call it a game.

    Most of the PVP focused games include MASSIVE grinds that are not fun for PVE or PVP folk, and have been led by small teams that were unable to find a good balance. There are certainly games that have been difficult that have been popular, like Ultima Online, still running strong and there are tons of EMU servers up.

    And seriously, a fk'ing nough of calling fans of PVP sociopaths, because they like competition against real people. Honestly, it's people like you who cause them to get "toxic" and push the stick up the backdoor a little harder.. it just becomes comical. And speaking of reality, the most popular games are centered around player vs player combat, so maybe you need to look around a little more because you have ZERO ZERO ZERO clue on what you're talking about.
    LOL you must miss all the streams where streamers go mental (over a game) if they lose. Or ones where guys beat up their wives live. Or guys go to streamers houses to threaten them. And any other completely deranged thing people who play these games do on a daily basis.

    Oh and lets all forget about Jacksonville while we are at it
    So what you are saying is, streamers who are bad people, are still bad people even while streaming? Weird.

    Just because bad people get attention, doesn't mean everyone who likes a specific type of game are all bad people. I love PvP games, but I'm not out curb stomping people who beat me in them. 

    Exactly, my wife is an avid pvp'er, she doesn't do a whole lot but that... she's an amazing nurse practitioner, and is beyond compassionate and goes an extra few miles (for no extra pay) to help her people out...really she's probably nicer to them than she is to me.. haha
    Hmm, not sure how I feel about a nurse who is really into PVP. 

    Her name isn't Jackie is it?

    ;)
    VinterkrigConstantineMerus

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing FO76 at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 36,165
    Torval said:
    Kyleran said:
    Heretique said:
    Not too fond of the developers but they do have great ideas, just need them to execute properly. Just hard to get hyped when you know it will be a buggy mess, it's pretty much their M.O. at the moment.
    Its pretty clear Snail Games intends to reskin and relaunch their survival game assets every 6 months or so in a new theme.

    Dinos, High Fantasy, Heroes and now Pirates. 

    Reminds me of how Sergi T. operates,  Smail just does it better.
    That's basically what the Total War franchise does with a few mechanical differences between games. I don't have a problem with that if it is done well. It can be done well or it can end up a cash grab. It's hard to tell until you dive in. This is why every game should have a trial demo.
    Never played any games under such a model, doubt I would enjoy such, but good to know.


    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing FO76 at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member EpicPosts: 7,275
    edited December 2018
    rodarin said:
    LMAO LIF has the best engine ever made WTF are you talking about? There isnt an engine anywhere that lets you do what that one does. Your fascination with engines is awesome especially since you dont know WTF youre talking about half the time and cling to the worst engine ever made for MMOS and your  prophet Chris Roberts continuing to try and make it work for his disaster of a project. Disaster only in terms of actually making a playable game not in term of milking players. Which you also ironically love to mention all the time. And cite said engine again here with Amazons failure waiting to release project.

    LiF MMO had the open everything goes full loot system PvP window and that is why most people didnt want anything to do with it. Who wants to spend the hours it takes in that game grinding only to lose stuff during their magic hour or two or whatever it was? Also if you died you lost hours of progression on your character as well. On the private servers in the Your Own version thousands of people were playing it until it got old and stale due to them not developing that portion anymore to focus on the MMO. All anyone has to do is look at every single game there is like ARK and LiF and whatever other 'survival' type games that allow server hosting and looking at the populations on PvP one and PvE ones. And the more harsh the PvP setting the lower the population across every game like that with no exceptions. But the irony is those games need some sort of PvP, but not full on full loot forced PvP.
    Huge amount of BS.  LiF MMO was a very weak engine, I played it before the MMO and on the MMO and the amount of workarounds they used to just have it minimally work is gg, like animals and water, climbing walls by clipping placeables, etc.. .etc.. Ridiculous exploits such as when some people found an easy way that the devs were aware of but didn't fix, to delete an entire massive alliance from the US MMO server lol. Lots of shenanigans.

    We had a big alliance going on LiF MMO until we got hacked by Russians, clipped through everything, stole everything (OUTSIDE the PvP hours that allowed to raid inner claims), and people just started flocking away from the game, there was no point if we couldn't stand a chance against guilds that purposedly exploited the game for advantage.

    Those guilds on the MMO were also famous to lag their claims a HELL LOT with tree farms and such, so the FPS drop would be so intense near their claims it would by itself discourage others from attacking their claim.

    If that wasn't enough when we got attacked we also have to play in slow-motion frame-rates even if it's 10-15 enemies.

    So you don't know wtf you're talking about, their engine was weak, had to do massive giveaways on mechanics so they could get features to work, such as feature-less AI; or the fact the large majority of actions had timers so it cheats the network cost... While things like the combat action couldn't escape the ridiculous pings of well over 1000ms during the open PvP ruleset hours.

    "best engine ever made"... Oh boy... //eyeroll

    What we need is a game like LiF MMO done with a capable engine, and while Ark's engine is wonky, put under one MMO scale it's far better than what LiF achieved.

    And Lumberyard's engine with The New World MMO by Amazon is an even better one because that one achieves good visuals with good optimization over its play mechanic, they need is the MMO server scaling backend that is a future thing for that title.

    KyleranVinterkrigLokero
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 36,165
    People always seem to forget Max actually knows something of which he speaks.

    ;)

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing FO76 at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • Tindale111Tindale111 Member UncommonPosts: 276
    The other important thing besides there being pvp and pve servers is they have said there will be 1st and 3rd person view this is important to me anyway as 1st person tends to give me motion sickness 
    mcrippins
  • VinterkrigVinterkrig Member UncommonPosts: 1,862
    Kyleran said:
    rodarin said:
    rodarin said:
    MaxBacon said:
    This site is full of PvE Carebears that have to shoot down any upcoming PvP MMO, something I can't understand the vast majority of MMO's already is PvE focused, there is lack of varied offer on the PvP setting not the PvE one.

    The New World by Amazon is another one on this thing, that MMO in dev gets shot down for being PvP focused too, having game loops more on trade, guild play and territorial conquest.
    Its not being a carebear its watching a dying genre continue to strangle itself completely out of existence by trying to force PvP (and open world full loot PvP to boot) on people.

    There has never ever been (and they have certainly tried) a PvP centric let alone a full on PvP gankfest full loot campers delight game even be close to viable let alone popular. How many PvP games have there been? A half a dozen at least, and just as many still in development now. They dont work they wont work and they never will work.

    It shows a special kind of stupid for these people for continually trying to ram it down our throats. I suspect they think because a bunch of sociopaths love these battle royal type games its a green light that a PvP focused MMO still has a chance. That basically shows how completely out of touch they are with reality.

    If your favorite game ever was even close to the point where their gameplay choices were worth debating then they would be just the next example of complete disconnect with reality.

    ANY game, I dont care what it is that has a full fledged open world (not specific zones but every area of the map) where PvP is allowed it has ZERO ZERO ZERO chance of being any sort of profitable title. Unless of course they do what youre guys are doing, stay in perpetual development rip 500 million from 'backers' and spend 50 million on something and call it a game.

    Most of the PVP focused games include MASSIVE grinds that are not fun for PVE or PVP folk, and have been led by small teams that were unable to find a good balance. There are certainly games that have been difficult that have been popular, like Ultima Online, still running strong and there are tons of EMU servers up.

    And seriously, a fk'ing nough of calling fans of PVP sociopaths, because they like competition against real people. Honestly, it's people like you who cause them to get "toxic" and push the stick up the backdoor a little harder.. it just becomes comical. And speaking of reality, the most popular games are centered around player vs player combat, so maybe you need to look around a little more because you have ZERO ZERO ZERO clue on what you're talking about.
    LOL you must miss all the streams where streamers go mental (over a game) if they lose. Or ones where guys beat up their wives live. Or guys go to streamers houses to threaten them. And any other completely deranged thing people who play these games do on a daily basis.

    Oh and lets all forget about Jacksonville while we are at it
    So what you are saying is, streamers who are bad people, are still bad people even while streaming? Weird.

    Just because bad people get attention, doesn't mean everyone who likes a specific type of game are all bad people. I love PvP games, but I'm not out curb stomping people who beat me in them. 

    Exactly, my wife is an avid pvp'er, she doesn't do a whole lot but that... she's an amazing nurse practitioner, and is beyond compassionate and goes an extra few miles (for no extra pay) to help her people out...really she's probably nicer to them than she is to me.. haha
    Hmm, not sure how I feel about a nurse who is really into PVP. 

    Her name isn't Jackie is it?

    ;)

    Haha nope, and anyone would be lucky to have her as a nurse or a member of their squad in a game (she's pretty damn good) to be honest.
    Kyleran
  • BloodaxesBloodaxes Member EpicPosts: 4,270
    The problem of these games is even if they offer pve servers, most certainly they expect people to make the content (Aka pvp).

    Also I find it funny people get riled up when pvp is frowned upon, but calling us who enjoy pve carebears is fine.
    Vinterkrig

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