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  • KalebGraysonKalebGrayson Member RarePosts: 430
    Full loot on PVP.  No thanks.  I'll pass.  If PVP games were so popular, then WoW wouldn't be the biggest MMORPG now would it.  It has PVP, but it's PVE "Carebear" focused...  I get it.  Some of you all LOVE the PVP.  It's awesome that yall found something you enjoy.  Some don't care for it though. 
  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member LegendaryPosts: 7,650
    Torval said:
    Then those PvP MMOs should stop marketing to PvE players and this wouldn't happen. No one complains that DOTA and LOL aren't PvE games because they don't try and sell themselves as that to milk a few extra dollars.  There are two halves to the coin and it's a shared blame and responsibility.
    They are marketing to the MMO genre, that is a mix of PvP and PvE, and in fact Atlas does show to have both PvP and PvE servers so it makes sense to advertise they provide that option within the MMO server scale they are going for.
  • KalebGraysonKalebGrayson Member RarePosts: 430
    Sovrath said:
    Sal1 said:
    I am not hyped because it's an open world PVP game. I hate those. So I won't be playing this title.
    The advertised world is so large that odds are that pvp can be avoided for the most part.
    That's not really fair. I think people who don't want pvp just don't want pvp.

    There are going to be squads of people who will make it their game play experience to scour the world for those who just want to go about their business.

    What we need to have are people who don't like pvp "not" playing games with pvp.
    Although I do agree, unfortunately they made the world so large that just the pvp crowd will make it feel as empty as darkfall.  People of all types will be needed to make this thing successful.  

    I think they overestimated the MMO FFA PVP base.


    This!  So much this!!!  Even I know that these full on PVP games are not that big of a draw.  I just don't get it.  PVP players do their thing, drive the PVE players away, then wonder why no one is around to PVP.
    poobin420
  • KalebGraysonKalebGrayson Member RarePosts: 430
    MaxBacon said:
    Torval said:
    Then those PvP MMOs should stop marketing to PvE players and this wouldn't happen. No one complains that DOTA and LOL aren't PvE games because they don't try and sell themselves as that to milk a few extra dollars.  There are two halves to the coin and it's a shared blame and responsibility.
    They are marketing to the MMO genre, that is a mix of PvP and PvE, and in fact Atlas does show to have both PvP and PvE servers so it makes sense to advertise they provide that option within the MMO server scale they are going for.
    If there are PVE servers, then I'll give the game a try.  Based on the little bit of skimming I did, I didn't see that there were.  Thanks for the info.
    Kyleran
  • Viper482Viper482 Member LegendaryPosts: 3,924
    Done with buzz, done with hype, about done with MMO's at this point. I have gotten too excited about too many titles only to be let down.
    Make MMORPG's Great Again!
  • alkarionlogalkarionlog Member EpicPosts: 3,584
    meh another pirate game, maybe wait they launch it to start to see if you will like, its a new early access, later people wonder why things like 76 are made
    FOR HONOR, FOR FREEDOM.... and for some money.
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 41,487
    MaxBacon said:
    This site is full of PvE Carebears that have to shoot down any upcoming PvP MMO, something I can't understand the vast majority of MMO's already is PvE focused, there is lack of varied offer on the PvP setting not the PvE one.

    The New World by Amazon is another one on this thing, that MMO in dev gets shot down for being PvP focused too, having game loops more on trade, guild play and territorial conquest.
    You do realize quite a few upcoming indie MMOs are PVP focused right? 

    Probabaly can use one hand to count the new PVE centric titles and still will have several fingers left over.


    [Deleted User]

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 41,487
    edited December 2018
    Sovrath said:
    Sal1 said:
    I am not hyped because it's an open world PVP game. I hate those. So I won't be playing this title.
    The advertised world is so large that odds are that pvp can be avoided for the most part.
    That's not really fair. I think people who don't want pvp just don't want pvp.

    There are going to be squads of people who will make it their game play experience to scour the world for those who just want to go about their business.

    What we need to have are people who don't like pvp "not" playing games with pvp.
    Although I do agree, unfortunately they made the world so large that just the pvp crowd will make it feel as empty as darkfall.  People of all types will be needed to make this thing successful.  

    I think they overestimated the MMO FFA PVP base.


    This!  So much this!!!  Even I know that these full on PVP games are not that big of a draw.  I just don't get it.  PVP players do their thing, drive the PVE players away, then wonder why no one is around to PVP.
    In all fairness, survival titles such as Rust, Ark, Conan Exiles and H1Z1 have all been proven money makers,  same with Fortnight, PUBG and a host of other BRs.

    Atlas is likely to share more with the above than a traditional progression based MMORPG where PVP has proven unpopular in most cases.

    [Deleted User][Deleted User]

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • rodarinrodarin Member EpicPosts: 2,605
    MaxBacon said:
    This site is full of PvE Carebears that have to shoot down any upcoming PvP MMO, something I can't understand the vast majority of MMO's already is PvE focused, there is lack of varied offer on the PvP setting not the PvE one.

    The New World by Amazon is another one on this thing, that MMO in dev gets shot down for being PvP focused too, having game loops more on trade, guild play and territorial conquest.
    Its not being a carebear its watching a dying genre continue to strangle itself completely out of existence by trying to force PvP (and open world full loot PvP to boot) on people.

    There has never ever been (and they have certainly tried) a PvP centric let alone a full on PvP gankfest full loot campers delight game even be close to viable let alone popular. How many PvP games have there been? A half a dozen at least, and just as many still in development now. They dont work they wont work and they never will work.

    It shows a special kind of stupid for these people for continually trying to ram it down our throats. I suspect they think because a bunch of sociopaths love these battle royal type games its a green light that a PvP focused MMO still has a chance. That basically shows how completely out of touch they are with reality.

    If your favorite game ever was even close to the point where their gameplay choices were worth debating then they would be just the next example of complete disconnect with reality.

    ANY game, I dont care what it is that has a full fledged open world (not specific zones but every area of the map) where PvP is allowed it has ZERO ZERO ZERO chance of being any sort of profitable title. Unless of course they do what youre guys are doing, stay in perpetual development rip 500 million from 'backers' and spend 50 million on something and call it a game.
    [Deleted User]KalebGrayson
  • rodarinrodarin Member EpicPosts: 2,605
    rodarin said:
    MaxBacon said:
    This site is full of PvE Carebears that have to shoot down any upcoming PvP MMO, something I can't understand the vast majority of MMO's already is PvE focused, there is lack of varied offer on the PvP setting not the PvE one.

    The New World by Amazon is another one on this thing, that MMO in dev gets shot down for being PvP focused too, having game loops more on trade, guild play and territorial conquest.
    Its not being a carebear its watching a dying genre continue to strangle itself completely out of existence by trying to force PvP (and open world full loot PvP to boot) on people.

    There has never ever been (and they have certainly tried) a PvP centric let alone a full on PvP gankfest full loot campers delight game even be close to viable let alone popular. How many PvP games have there been? A half a dozen at least, and just as many still in development now. They dont work they wont work and they never will work.

    It shows a special kind of stupid for these people for continually trying to ram it down our throats. I suspect they think because a bunch of sociopaths love these battle royal type games its a green light that a PvP focused MMO still has a chance. That basically shows how completely out of touch they are with reality.

    If your favorite game ever was even close to the point where their gameplay choices were worth debating then they would be just the next example of complete disconnect with reality.

    ANY game, I dont care what it is that has a full fledged open world (not specific zones but every area of the map) where PvP is allowed it has ZERO ZERO ZERO chance of being any sort of profitable title. Unless of course they do what youre guys are doing, stay in perpetual development rip 500 million from 'backers' and spend 50 million on something and call it a game.

    Most of the PVP focused games include MASSIVE grinds that are not fun for PVE or PVP folk, and have been led by small teams that were unable to find a good balance. There are certainly games that have been difficult that have been popular, like Ultima Online, still running strong and there are tons of EMU servers up.

    And seriously, a fk'ing nough of calling fans of PVP sociopaths, because they like competition against real people. Honestly, it's people like you who cause them to get "toxic" and push the stick up the backdoor a little harder.. it just becomes comical. And speaking of reality, the most popular games are centered around player vs player combat, so maybe you need to look around a little more because you have ZERO ZERO ZERO clue on what you're talking about.
    LOL you must miss all the streams where streamers go mental (over a game) if they lose. Or ones where guys beat up their wives live. Or guys go to streamers houses to threaten them. And any other completely deranged thing people who play these games do on a daily basis.

    Oh and lets all forget about Jacksonville while we are at it
    [Deleted User]
  • LokeroLokero Member RarePosts: 1,514
    rodarin said:
    rodarin said:
    MaxBacon said:
    This site is full of PvE Carebears that have to shoot down any upcoming PvP MMO, something I can't understand the vast majority of MMO's already is PvE focused, there is lack of varied offer on the PvP setting not the PvE one.

    The New World by Amazon is another one on this thing, that MMO in dev gets shot down for being PvP focused too, having game loops more on trade, guild play and territorial conquest.
    Its not being a carebear its watching a dying genre continue to strangle itself completely out of existence by trying to force PvP (and open world full loot PvP to boot) on people.

    There has never ever been (and they have certainly tried) a PvP centric let alone a full on PvP gankfest full loot campers delight game even be close to viable let alone popular. How many PvP games have there been? A half a dozen at least, and just as many still in development now. They dont work they wont work and they never will work.

    It shows a special kind of stupid for these people for continually trying to ram it down our throats. I suspect they think because a bunch of sociopaths love these battle royal type games its a green light that a PvP focused MMO still has a chance. That basically shows how completely out of touch they are with reality.

    If your favorite game ever was even close to the point where their gameplay choices were worth debating then they would be just the next example of complete disconnect with reality.

    ANY game, I dont care what it is that has a full fledged open world (not specific zones but every area of the map) where PvP is allowed it has ZERO ZERO ZERO chance of being any sort of profitable title. Unless of course they do what youre guys are doing, stay in perpetual development rip 500 million from 'backers' and spend 50 million on something and call it a game.

    Most of the PVP focused games include MASSIVE grinds that are not fun for PVE or PVP folk, and have been led by small teams that were unable to find a good balance. There are certainly games that have been difficult that have been popular, like Ultima Online, still running strong and there are tons of EMU servers up.

    And seriously, a fk'ing nough of calling fans of PVP sociopaths, because they like competition against real people. Honestly, it's people like you who cause them to get "toxic" and push the stick up the backdoor a little harder.. it just becomes comical. And speaking of reality, the most popular games are centered around player vs player combat, so maybe you need to look around a little more because you have ZERO ZERO ZERO clue on what you're talking about.
    LOL you must miss all the streams where streamers go mental (over a game) if they lose. Or ones where guys beat up their wives live. Or guys go to streamers houses to threaten them. And any other completely deranged thing people who play these games do on a daily basis.

    Oh and lets all forget about Jacksonville while we are at it
    Come on, man.  I know you are trying to be dramatic for emphasis, but that's just comically over the top.

    There are deranged people doing that stuff all over the place, every day.  Linking a like for PVP competition in video games to sociopathy is ridiculous.

    There are just as many nutjobs playing PVE as PVP.  You just don't see that on streams and hear about it because competitive streaming is a much more popular source of views than non-competitive.  And, moreso, because the media likes to dramatize everything related to video game violence.
    People who play D&D are cultists and witches;  People who play violent games like GTA are murderers;  People who play competitive PVP are sociopaths.
    [Deleted User]
  • newbismxnewbismx Member UncommonPosts: 276
    Its my understanding there will be 2 official servers (a PVP and a PVE server) 
  • KalebGraysonKalebGrayson Member RarePosts: 430
    rodarin said:
    MaxBacon said:
    This site is full of PvE Carebears that have to shoot down any upcoming PvP MMO, something I can't understand the vast majority of MMO's already is PvE focused, there is lack of varied offer on the PvP setting not the PvE one.

    The New World by Amazon is another one on this thing, that MMO in dev gets shot down for being PvP focused too, having game loops more on trade, guild play and territorial conquest.
    Its not being a carebear its watching a dying genre continue to strangle itself completely out of existence by trying to force PvP (and open world full loot PvP to boot) on people.

    There has never ever been (and they have certainly tried) a PvP centric let alone a full on PvP gankfest full loot campers delight game even be close to viable let alone popular. How many PvP games have there been? A half a dozen at least, and just as many still in development now. They dont work they wont work and they never will work.

    It shows a special kind of stupid for these people for continually trying to ram it down our throats. I suspect they think because a bunch of sociopaths love these battle royal type games its a green light that a PvP focused MMO still has a chance. That basically shows how completely out of touch they are with reality.

    If your favorite game ever was even close to the point where their gameplay choices were worth debating then they would be just the next example of complete disconnect with reality.

    ANY game, I dont care what it is that has a full fledged open world (not specific zones but every area of the map) where PvP is allowed it has ZERO ZERO ZERO chance of being any sort of profitable title. Unless of course they do what youre guys are doing, stay in perpetual development rip 500 million from 'backers' and spend 50 million on something and call it a game.

    Most of the PVP focused games include MASSIVE grinds that are not fun for PVE or PVP folk, and have been led by small teams that were unable to find a good balance. There are certainly games that have been difficult that have been popular, like Ultima Online, still running strong and there are tons of EMU servers up.

    And seriously, a fk'ing nough of calling fans of PVP sociopaths, because they like competition against real people. Honestly, it's people like you who cause them to get "toxic" and push the stick up the backdoor a little harder.. it just becomes comical. And speaking of reality, the most popular games are centered around player vs player combat, so maybe you need to look around a little more because you have ZERO ZERO ZERO clue on what you're talking about.
    I agree that Fortnite and other shooter PVP games are WAY more popular than MMORPG's.  What I don't get is why, if PVP is so popular, are all the PVP realms in the vast MINORITY on MMORPG's?  That's what I meant (and failed to communicate clearly).  From what I've observed, the pool of PVP players in MMORPG's is much smaller than the Pool of PVE players.  Perhaps it IS the grind that PVP'ers don't like and that keeps them in the shooters.  When I was in my 20's, I PVP'd all the time.  World PVP, Battleground, Arenas.  I'm in my 40's now and I have lost all interest.  I didn't lose interest because of losing matches, I just don't care to get that worked up anymore.  I'd log off after an evening of PVP and couldn't fall asleep.  I was too worked up.  Either way, in MMORPG's it seems to be that the PVPers are the minority.
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 41,487
    rodarin said:
    rodarin said:
    MaxBacon said:
    This site is full of PvE Carebears that have to shoot down any upcoming PvP MMO, something I can't understand the vast majority of MMO's already is PvE focused, there is lack of varied offer on the PvP setting not the PvE one.

    The New World by Amazon is another one on this thing, that MMO in dev gets shot down for being PvP focused too, having game loops more on trade, guild play and territorial conquest.
    Its not being a carebear its watching a dying genre continue to strangle itself completely out of existence by trying to force PvP (and open world full loot PvP to boot) on people.

    There has never ever been (and they have certainly tried) a PvP centric let alone a full on PvP gankfest full loot campers delight game even be close to viable let alone popular. How many PvP games have there been? A half a dozen at least, and just as many still in development now. They dont work they wont work and they never will work.

    It shows a special kind of stupid for these people for continually trying to ram it down our throats. I suspect they think because a bunch of sociopaths love these battle royal type games its a green light that a PvP focused MMO still has a chance. That basically shows how completely out of touch they are with reality.

    If your favorite game ever was even close to the point where their gameplay choices were worth debating then they would be just the next example of complete disconnect with reality.

    ANY game, I dont care what it is that has a full fledged open world (not specific zones but every area of the map) where PvP is allowed it has ZERO ZERO ZERO chance of being any sort of profitable title. Unless of course they do what youre guys are doing, stay in perpetual development rip 500 million from 'backers' and spend 50 million on something and call it a game.

    Most of the PVP focused games include MASSIVE grinds that are not fun for PVE or PVP folk, and have been led by small teams that were unable to find a good balance. There are certainly games that have been difficult that have been popular, like Ultima Online, still running strong and there are tons of EMU servers up.

    And seriously, a fk'ing nough of calling fans of PVP sociopaths, because they like competition against real people. Honestly, it's people like you who cause them to get "toxic" and push the stick up the backdoor a little harder.. it just becomes comical. And speaking of reality, the most popular games are centered around player vs player combat, so maybe you need to look around a little more because you have ZERO ZERO ZERO clue on what you're talking about.
    LOL you must miss all the streams where streamers go mental (over a game) if they lose. Or ones where guys beat up their wives live. Or guys go to streamers houses to threaten them. And any other completely deranged thing people who play these games do on a daily basis.

    Oh and lets all forget about Jacksonville while we are at it
    Or all the "swell" videos of streamers being "SWATTED", there's even a top 10 list. 

    Sure it can happen in a PVE focused game, but far lower risk of it occurring,  unless someone ninja loots the dragon.....

    ;)
    [Deleted User]

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • JeffSpicoliJeffSpicoli Member EpicPosts: 2,849
    mcrippins said:
    1. They've kept it pretty quiet in regards to showing us actual content. There's some out there, but not much. Not gonna lie - I kinda love this.

    2. There's a lot of ppl who do not like the developers because of some mistakes with Ark. Personally I could care less and loved Ark. It is a game that's way ahead of its time, and can't wait to see what these devs do here.
    Yeah nothing is better in gaming then walking into a game of this scale blind. You can really spoil a game for yourself by learning every facet of play. I always felt like this was No Mans Sky undoing when it first launched, they released to much info over the course of a year and then people just focused on what wasn't there.

      As far as Atlas goes the trailer looks amazing, I just hope the lack of gameplay footage is devs wanting us to walk in blind and be blown away as opposed to avoiding game play footage because the game is boarder line unplayable.

    Either way this is a day one purchase for me. Personally i think this will launch in a messy state and then become something special a year from now much like Conan Exiles
    mcrippins
    • Aloha Mr Hand ! 

  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member LegendaryPosts: 7,650
    rodarin said:
    Its not being a carebear its watching a dying genre continue to strangle itself completely out of existence by trying to force PvP (and open world full loot PvP to boot) on people.

    There has never ever been (and they have certainly tried) a PvP centric let alone a full on PvP gankfest full loot campers delight game even be close to viable let alone popular. How many PvP games have there been? A half a dozen at least, and just as many still in development now. They dont work they wont work and they never will work.

    It shows a special kind of stupid for these people for continually trying to ram it down our throats. I suspect they think because a bunch of sociopaths love these battle royal type games its a green light that a PvP focused MMO still has a chance. That basically shows how completely out of touch they are with reality.

    If your favorite game ever was even close to the point where their gameplay choices were worth debating then they would be just the next example of complete disconnect with reality.

    ANY game, I dont care what it is that has a full fledged open world (not specific zones but every area of the map) where PvP is allowed it has ZERO ZERO ZERO chance of being any sort of profitable title. Unless of course they do what youre guys are doing, stay in perpetual development rip 500 million from 'backers' and spend 50 million on something and call it a game.
    The dying genre is not related to PvP or PvE, it is related to lack of ambitious game developers and a formula that has been over-milked and people are tired of.

    The PvP experience that a game like LiF MMO and Atlas aim for, is actually on demand and the reason why say LiF didn't turn well is because their game was broken due to the awful engine, NOT because the game design and idea was wrong.

    The only thing that is missing, is for a developer to do a decently polished open-world sandbox PvEvP MMO, because that was not been properly done yet.

    Amazon's New World is one with a good shot at it, their engine is good, far more polished game experience that I played that they have to continuously develop and expand. That will be attractive.

    Games like Conqueror's Blade also PvP MMO also snatching quite the interest when they did the main beta event, also while linear experience it is decently polished too.

    So no, there IS demand for PvP focused MMO's, especially with the sandbox/survival aspect that has been for so long contained to small MP servers that due to limited MP scale can't achieve a good guild-play/conquest and economy.
    JeffSpicoliSovrathKyleranpoobin420
  • LokeroLokero Member RarePosts: 1,514
    Kyleran said:
    rodarin said:
    rodarin said:
    MaxBacon said:
    This site is full of PvE Carebears that have to shoot down any upcoming PvP MMO, something I can't understand the vast majority of MMO's already is PvE focused, there is lack of varied offer on the PvP setting not the PvE one.

    The New World by Amazon is another one on this thing, that MMO in dev gets shot down for being PvP focused too, having game loops more on trade, guild play and territorial conquest.
    Its not being a carebear its watching a dying genre continue to strangle itself completely out of existence by trying to force PvP (and open world full loot PvP to boot) on people.

    There has never ever been (and they have certainly tried) a PvP centric let alone a full on PvP gankfest full loot campers delight game even be close to viable let alone popular. How many PvP games have there been? A half a dozen at least, and just as many still in development now. They dont work they wont work and they never will work.

    It shows a special kind of stupid for these people for continually trying to ram it down our throats. I suspect they think because a bunch of sociopaths love these battle royal type games its a green light that a PvP focused MMO still has a chance. That basically shows how completely out of touch they are with reality.

    If your favorite game ever was even close to the point where their gameplay choices were worth debating then they would be just the next example of complete disconnect with reality.

    ANY game, I dont care what it is that has a full fledged open world (not specific zones but every area of the map) where PvP is allowed it has ZERO ZERO ZERO chance of being any sort of profitable title. Unless of course they do what youre guys are doing, stay in perpetual development rip 500 million from 'backers' and spend 50 million on something and call it a game.

    Most of the PVP focused games include MASSIVE grinds that are not fun for PVE or PVP folk, and have been led by small teams that were unable to find a good balance. There are certainly games that have been difficult that have been popular, like Ultima Online, still running strong and there are tons of EMU servers up.

    And seriously, a fk'ing nough of calling fans of PVP sociopaths, because they like competition against real people. Honestly, it's people like you who cause them to get "toxic" and push the stick up the backdoor a little harder.. it just becomes comical. And speaking of reality, the most popular games are centered around player vs player combat, so maybe you need to look around a little more because you have ZERO ZERO ZERO clue on what you're talking about.
    LOL you must miss all the streams where streamers go mental (over a game) if they lose. Or ones where guys beat up their wives live. Or guys go to streamers houses to threaten them. And any other completely deranged thing people who play these games do on a daily basis.

    Oh and lets all forget about Jacksonville while we are at it
    Or all the "swell" videos of streamers being "SWATTED", there's even a top 10 list. 

    Sure it can happen in a PVE focused game, but far lower risk of it occurring,  unless someone ninja loots the dragon.....

    ;)
    That's true in the sense that it's more likely to happen in a PVP focused game.

    It's silly to assume, however, that there are proportionately more sociopaths playing those PVP games.  Crazy people have varied interests, same as anyone else.
    In other words, the PVP games may have more of a chance than PVE to set crazy people off due to the competition.  But, that doesn't signify that sociopaths are drawn to one particular interest or whatever.

    You simply don't see the nuts playing PVE snap as much in those games, because those games don't offer as many outlet triggers towards other people.  But, they are still there and still getting set off by other stuff and doing crazy crap IRL.  We just don't hear about it.

    You hear about the PVP ones more, because they are direct player-to-player confrontations over long distance(the only way to lash out against another player is through long distance means -- swatting, etc.) and because they are video-game related aggressions.  The media eats video-game related incidents up.

    While some PVP player is in the news being reported for swattings, some PVE player is equally snapping and killing someone in a parking lot because he stole his parking space.

    As for Twitch guy, that could just as easily have been some dude streaming a raid in a PVE setting.  That was just domestic violence and completely unrelated to the activity(other than the fact that he wouldn't stop).
    Kyleran
  • mcrippinsmcrippins Member RarePosts: 1,599
    For those concerned about this being a PvP only game - taken from the description of the game on Steam:

    MMO On the Grandest Scale

    Physically sail in real-time across the vast oceans with the proprietary server network technology. Explorers will voyage to over 700 unique landmasses across 45,000 square kilometers, with thousands of Discovery Zones, and ten distinct world regions each having their own unique resources, creatures, secrets, and environment hazards! There is a separate PvE ATLAS for players who don't wish to play any PVP. 
    MadFrenchieEvilGeekdeniter
  • rodarinrodarin Member EpicPosts: 2,605
    MaxBacon said:
    rodarin said:
    Its not being a carebear its watching a dying genre continue to strangle itself completely out of existence by trying to force PvP (and open world full loot PvP to boot) on people.

    There has never ever been (and they have certainly tried) a PvP centric let alone a full on PvP gankfest full loot campers delight game even be close to viable let alone popular. How many PvP games have there been? A half a dozen at least, and just as many still in development now. They dont work they wont work and they never will work.

    It shows a special kind of stupid for these people for continually trying to ram it down our throats. I suspect they think because a bunch of sociopaths love these battle royal type games its a green light that a PvP focused MMO still has a chance. That basically shows how completely out of touch they are with reality.

    If your favorite game ever was even close to the point where their gameplay choices were worth debating then they would be just the next example of complete disconnect with reality.

    ANY game, I dont care what it is that has a full fledged open world (not specific zones but every area of the map) where PvP is allowed it has ZERO ZERO ZERO chance of being any sort of profitable title. Unless of course they do what youre guys are doing, stay in perpetual development rip 500 million from 'backers' and spend 50 million on something and call it a game.
    The dying genre is not related to PvP or PvE, it is related to lack of ambitious game developers and a formula that has been over-milked and people are tired of.

    The PvP experience that a game like LiF MMO and Atlas aim for, is actually on demand and the reason why say LiF didn't turn well is because their game was broken due to the awful engine, NOT because the game design and idea was wrong.

    The only thing that is missing, is for a developer to do a decently polished open-world sandbox PvEvP MMO, because that was not been properly done yet.

    Amazon's New World is one with a good shot at it, their engine is good, far more polished game experience that I played that they have to continuously develop and expand. That will be attractive.

    Games like Conqueror's Blade also PvP MMO also snatching quite the interest when they did the main beta event, also while linear experience it is decently polished too.

    So no, there IS demand for PvP focused MMO's, especially with the sandbox/survival aspect that has been for so long contained to small MP servers that due to limited MP scale can't achieve a good guild-play/conquest and economy.
    LMAO LIF has the best engine ever made WTF are you talking about? There isnt an engine anywhere that lets you do what that one does. Your fascination with engines is awesome especially since you dont know WTF youre talking about half the time and cling to the worst engine ever made for MMOS and your  prophet Chris Roberts continuing to try and make it work for his disaster of a project. Disaster only in terms of actually making a playable game not in term of milking players. Which you also ironically love to mention all the time. And cite said engine again here with Amazons failure waiting to release project.

    Youre as Myopic and egocentric as these clowns making video games, as if theyre going to be THE ONE who FINALLY 'gets it right'. And make THE end all be all of PvP MMOS and everyone will flock to it.

    LiF MMO had the open everything goes full loot system PvP window and that is why most people didnt want anything to do with it. Who wants to spend the hours it takes in that game grinding only to lose stuff during their magic hour or two or whatever it was? Also if you died you lost hours of progression on your character as well. On the private servers in the Your Own version thousands of people were playing it until it got old and stale due to them not developing that portion anymore to focus on the MMO. All anyone has to do is look at every single game there is like ARK and LiF and whatever other 'survival' type games that allow server hosting and looking at the populations on PvP one and PvE ones. And the more harsh the PvP setting the lower the population across every game like that with no exceptions. But the irony is those games need some sort of PvP, but not full on full loot forced PvP.

    As far as the grind in other MMOs. Thats an excuse. People like shooters because theyre filled with these ADD people who cant focus on anything for more than 20-30 minutes tops and with nothing 'invested' they dont care. So getting killed in them (unless they are in a top 10 or something) doesnt mean anything. Thats why I say these people have mental problems because getting killed instantly doesnt bother them but if they put even a little time in get close and die THEN they lose their minds. So the breakdown is related to how much time and 'effort' they pout into it. But on a grand scale they arent putting much of anything into these BR games. MMOS are fundamentally about advancing and goals (or they used to be). People dont want to put days weeks months into something and then have some asshat come along and destroy it.

    ARK proved it out. Even a short term input of time and effort on the official PvP type servers sucked when someone or a group came and destroyed everything you built and killed all the dinosaurs you spent hours taming. There has to be a balance between risk and reward and no open world PvP game has it or ever will because people are stuck with shit they 'learned' 20 years ago.

    Look at the only games right now with populations even worth talking about...WoW, ESO, BDO, GW 2, FFXIV. What do they all have in common? They all have PvP but they all separate it from PvE and its all voluntary with the exception of WoW assuming of course there are still PvP zones in it. Where you might have to cross one to do something but going in is still a voluntary act.

    People can make any game anyway they want. But if they want people to buy it and play it they have to smarten up. LiF was one of the best concepts ever. I was in on it from the beginning. I dont know how many posts we had telling those guys the huge mistakes they were making with their MMO direction and how they absolutely refused to listen to anything and had a complete hardline stance on how they were going to make their game. And we saw what happened.
  • rodarinrodarin Member EpicPosts: 2,605
    mcrippins said:
    For those concerned about this being a PvP only game - taken from the description of the game on Steam:

    MMO On the Grandest Scale

    Physically sail in real-time across the vast oceans with the proprietary server network technology. Explorers will voyage to over 700 unique landmasses across 45,000 square kilometers, with thousands of Discovery Zones, and ten distinct world regions each having their own unique resources, creatures, secrets, and environment hazards! There is a separate PvE ATLAS for players who don't wish to play any PVP. 
    Problem is these games get boring really fast without some sort of PvP. Thats the whole point. ALL or NOTHING doesnt work. With a map that big, as I said before there is ample room to have areas of PvP and areas of PvE on the same map. Either theyre not smart enough to figure it out (the most likely reason) or theyre too lazy to do it or they dont have the money to do it.
  • rodarinrodarin Member EpicPosts: 2,605
    Lokero said:

    While some PVP player is in the news being reported for swattings, some PVE player is equally snapping and killing someone in a parking lot because he stole his parking space.


    If you dont see the complete difference between those two examples then I dont know what to say.
  • KajidourdenKajidourden Member EpicPosts: 3,030
    Why would there be?  It's going to be another grief-fest shit-show unoptimized buggy mess like ARK, except....pirates; big whoop.
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,505
    Lokero said:
    Kyleran said:
    rodarin said:
    rodarin said:
    MaxBacon said:
    This site is full of PvE Carebears that have to shoot down any upcoming PvP MMO, something I can't understand the vast majority of MMO's already is PvE focused, there is lack of varied offer on the PvP setting not the PvE one.

    The New World by Amazon is another one on this thing, that MMO in dev gets shot down for being PvP focused too, having game loops more on trade, guild play and territorial conquest.
    Its not being a carebear its watching a dying genre continue to strangle itself completely out of existence by trying to force PvP (and open world full loot PvP to boot) on people.

    There has never ever been (and they have certainly tried) a PvP centric let alone a full on PvP gankfest full loot campers delight game even be close to viable let alone popular. How many PvP games have there been? A half a dozen at least, and just as many still in development now. They dont work they wont work and they never will work.

    It shows a special kind of stupid for these people for continually trying to ram it down our throats. I suspect they think because a bunch of sociopaths love these battle royal type games its a green light that a PvP focused MMO still has a chance. That basically shows how completely out of touch they are with reality.

    If your favorite game ever was even close to the point where their gameplay choices were worth debating then they would be just the next example of complete disconnect with reality.

    ANY game, I dont care what it is that has a full fledged open world (not specific zones but every area of the map) where PvP is allowed it has ZERO ZERO ZERO chance of being any sort of profitable title. Unless of course they do what youre guys are doing, stay in perpetual development rip 500 million from 'backers' and spend 50 million on something and call it a game.

    Most of the PVP focused games include MASSIVE grinds that are not fun for PVE or PVP folk, and have been led by small teams that were unable to find a good balance. There are certainly games that have been difficult that have been popular, like Ultima Online, still running strong and there are tons of EMU servers up.

    And seriously, a fk'ing nough of calling fans of PVP sociopaths, because they like competition against real people. Honestly, it's people like you who cause them to get "toxic" and push the stick up the backdoor a little harder.. it just becomes comical. And speaking of reality, the most popular games are centered around player vs player combat, so maybe you need to look around a little more because you have ZERO ZERO ZERO clue on what you're talking about.
    LOL you must miss all the streams where streamers go mental (over a game) if they lose. Or ones where guys beat up their wives live. Or guys go to streamers houses to threaten them. And any other completely deranged thing people who play these games do on a daily basis.

    Oh and lets all forget about Jacksonville while we are at it
    Or all the "swell" videos of streamers being "SWATTED", there's even a top 10 list. 

    Sure it can happen in a PVE focused game, but far lower risk of it occurring,  unless someone ninja loots the dragon.....

    ;)
    That's true in the sense that it's more likely to happen in a PVP focused game.

    It's silly to assume, however, that there are proportionately more sociopaths playing those PVP games.  Crazy people have varied interests, same as anyone else.
    In other words, the PVP games may have more of a chance than PVE to set crazy people off due to the competition.  But, that doesn't signify that sociopaths are drawn to one particular interest or whatever.

    You simply don't see the nuts playing PVE snap as much in those games, because those games don't offer as many outlet triggers towards other people.  But, they are still there and still getting set off by other stuff and doing crazy crap IRL.  We just don't hear about it.

    You hear about the PVP ones more, because they are direct player-to-player confrontations over long distance(the only way to lash out against another player is through long distance means -- swatting, etc.) and because they are video-game related aggressions.  The media eats video-game related incidents up.

    While some PVP player is in the news being reported for swattings, some PVE player is equally snapping and killing someone in a parking lot because he stole his parking space.

    As for Twitch guy, that could just as easily have been some dude streaming a raid in a PVE setting.  That was just domestic violence and completely unrelated to the activity(other than the fact that he wouldn't stop).
    The type of experience (competitive or cooperative) does attract gamers with differing personalities.  That's not to say the two are mutually exclusive, but those who are not attracted to competitive games as opposed to cooperative ones are likely attracted to that same competition in other aspects of life.

    Competition naturally lends itself to confrontation more than cooperation.

    Additionally, both are results of extrinsic pressures on behavior, as opposed to completely intrinsic ones.  As such, I agree we should exercise caution when we try to prescribe precise attributes to groups of people who enjoy one type or another.

    image
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 41,487
    edited December 2018
    Lokero said:
    Kyleran said:
    rodarin said:
    rodarin said:
    MaxBacon said:
    This site is full of PvE Carebears that have to shoot down any upcoming PvP MMO, something I can't understand the vast majority of MMO's already is PvE focused, there is lack of varied offer on the PvP setting not the PvE one.

    The New World by Amazon is another one on this thing, that MMO in dev gets shot down for being PvP focused too, having game loops more on trade, guild play and territorial conquest.
    Its not being a carebear its watching a dying genre continue to strangle itself completely out of existence by trying to force PvP (and open world full loot PvP to boot) on people.

    There has never ever been (and they have certainly tried) a PvP centric let alone a full on PvP gankfest full loot campers delight game even be close to viable let alone popular. How many PvP games have there been? A half a dozen at least, and just as many still in development now. They dont work they wont work and they never will work.

    It shows a special kind of stupid for these people for continually trying to ram it down our throats. I suspect they think because a bunch of sociopaths love these battle royal type games its a green light that a PvP focused MMO still has a chance. That basically shows how completely out of touch they are with reality.

    If your favorite game ever was even close to the point where their gameplay choices were worth debating then they would be just the next example of complete disconnect with reality.

    ANY game, I dont care what it is that has a full fledged open world (not specific zones but every area of the map) where PvP is allowed it has ZERO ZERO ZERO chance of being any sort of profitable title. Unless of course they do what youre guys are doing, stay in perpetual development rip 500 million from 'backers' and spend 50 million on something and call it a game.

    Most of the PVP focused games include MASSIVE grinds that are not fun for PVE or PVP folk, and have been led by small teams that were unable to find a good balance. There are certainly games that have been difficult that have been popular, like Ultima Online, still running strong and there are tons of EMU servers up.

    And seriously, a fk'ing nough of calling fans of PVP sociopaths, because they like competition against real people. Honestly, it's people like you who cause them to get "toxic" and push the stick up the backdoor a little harder.. it just becomes comical. And speaking of reality, the most popular games are centered around player vs player combat, so maybe you need to look around a little more because you have ZERO ZERO ZERO clue on what you're talking about.
    LOL you must miss all the streams where streamers go mental (over a game) if they lose. Or ones where guys beat up their wives live. Or guys go to streamers houses to threaten them. And any other completely deranged thing people who play these games do on a daily basis.

    Oh and lets all forget about Jacksonville while we are at it
    Or all the "swell" videos of streamers being "SWATTED", there's even a top 10 list. 

    Sure it can happen in a PVE focused game, but far lower risk of it occurring,  unless someone ninja loots the dragon.....

    ;)
    That's true in the sense that it's more likely to happen in a PVP focused game.

    It's silly to assume, however, that there are proportionately more sociopaths playing those PVP games.  Crazy people have varied interests, same as anyone else.
    In other words, the PVP games may have more of a chance than PVE to set crazy people off due to the competition.  But, that doesn't signify that sociopaths are drawn to one particular interest or whatever.

    You simply don't see the nuts playing PVE snap as much in those games, because those games don't offer as many outlet triggers towards other people.  But, they are still there and still getting set off by other stuff and doing crazy crap IRL.  We just don't hear about it.

    You hear about the PVP ones more, because they are direct player-to-player confrontations over long distance(the only way to lash out against another player is through long distance means -- swatting, etc.) and because they are video-game related aggressions.  The media eats video-game related incidents up.

    While some PVP player is in the news being reported for swattings, some PVE player is equally snapping and killing someone in a parking lot because he stole his parking space.

    As for Twitch guy, that could just as easily have been some dude streaming a raid in a PVE setting.  That was just domestic violence and completely unrelated to the activity(other than the fact that he wouldn't stop).
    I know the crazies are everywhere, it's just most PVE centric game present fewer opportunities for people to show their bad side.

    Being a long time EVE player (yet firmly a carebear) I've found the game to have the best community out of most MMOs I've played, mostly as cooperating with others is important and pissing off others unnecessarily can have unwanted consequences.


    Lokero

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

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