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Fallout 76 Players Given Lifetime Ban for Homophobic Attacks

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  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 11,062


    Edit: A rando white kid screaming "die you fucking nworder" in my ear every ten seconds isn't even close to satire. It's hate speech. Please don't ever use that lame attempt ever again in your life. 

    I always wonder when I read stuff like this how you know it's a white kid and how they know you are black?

    Nobody online has the slightest idea what race or races I am... and while I certainly find the random idiot I never face anything close to what you describe.


    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

    My ignore list finally has one occupant after 12 years. I am the strongest supporter of free speech on here, but free speech does not mean forced listening. Have fun my friend. Hope you find a new stalking target.

  • klash2defklash2def Member EpicPosts: 1,542
    edited December 2018
    @Phry Hate Speech isn't just "Judging people we disagree with." super pretentious of you to think you can just boil such a sensitive thing down to just "Disagreeing".  But, Let me help. 

    Hatred: Racial Slurs, Homophobic Slurs, Sexist slurs,  etc

    Hate Speech: Hate speech is speech that attacks a person or group on the basis of attributes such as race, religion, ethnic origin, national origin, sex, disability, sexual orientation, or gender identity. - Official Definition

    Excuse the raw form but for effect i'm not blurring out any of these hate speech slurs. I don't want you being confused on what hate speech looks like.

    "Why are there niggers in my game" 
    "You stupid faggot"
    "Stay in the kitchen you dumb bitch"
    "I hope all Muslims die."

    I heard all of these this week in ONE game. Those are four examples out of millions used daily. again.. I very plainly ask wtf you are talking about. 

    Stop equating your own personal limited belief to others very real reality. Its real. No matter how much you want to tuck your head under the cover and pretend its not. As a white person instead of acting like its not real, you should try being an ally to the people affected. Stand up and say something when you see that shit. There should be a no tolerance policy for hate speech on all media platforms. It does not matter what you personally believe. 

    Post edited by klash2def on
    ArthurpendragonIselin
    "PSA: We live in a multicultural world. Nobody is "forcing" diversity. Earth is already Diverse."

    "Everything that happens is a political act, and the only people that get to pretend otherwise are those privileged enough to not have politics impact them at all." ~Taliesin
     
    Currently: Games Audio Engineer
    You've heard what I've heard

  • BananableBananable Member UncommonPosts: 194
    edited December 2018
    "Fallout 76 Players Given Reward for Homophobic Attacks"
    LOLZ

    This is so stupid, i personally dont care what you do in your free time. But why do i need this ShiFt in the game?!  This stupid devs/publishers desperate PR is so annoying.
    Can you imagine you come to grocery store to buy something and some employee tell you "Im gay"? You are in a rush so at first you dont even understand whats his talking about. So you impatiently repeat to him what you need, but he gets offended and runs to manager.    >.>


    Um, btw is there game somewhere in this HUGE pile of yellow press?
    Oh yea, there isnt! Its FU 76, somebody actually still expecting something good from it?
    Seriously! This game looks like GTA online, but worse. Whole point of which is to bother to other players. And thats how devs intended to.



    P.S. When i played Gw2, guilds asked to join RC or TS. 
    First time there was women talking what are "great" BFs they have. Second time some guy in female voice sang Fergie glamorous....
    This is not about gays. Its just stupid annying pointless information. And its not working because people use to share with someone whos close or atleast to someone who have same interests, not some strangers with their own problems. And now bi*ching about it publicly is a thing...because thats what streamers do...when they stream those boooooring games. 
    Ive watched some lets play (Dying light) on YT. It was stream record from twitch. The guy is like 30 years old, he played with his friend. They were so bored, but they have to talk about something, so they talk about his constipation...
    Adult guy. On public video. That suppose to advertise the game/his channel. That kids watch for fun (some even DONATE). Was talking about his personal problems.    >.>

  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 11,062
    Somewhat related article I recently read: https://www.wsj.com/articles/america-is-addicted-to-outrage-is-there-a-cure-1543620811

    I thought it was a good read.

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

    My ignore list finally has one occupant after 12 years. I am the strongest supporter of free speech on here, but free speech does not mean forced listening. Have fun my friend. Hope you find a new stalking target.

  • PhryPhry Member LegendaryPosts: 11,004
    klash2def said:
    Phry said:
    klash2def said:
    Phry said:
    klash2def said:
    Phry said:
    klash2def said:
    Phry said:


    Also, are we all going to make believe that a person who would go "queer hunting" at a strangers expense (no matter the circumstance) doesn't have a character/personality flaw that might need some addressing? Let's not do that.
    Assuming that they have a flaw or mental defect is a dangerous road to go down.

    Some might argue that a person who swears they are one gender while biologically another has a flaw or defect.  That thought process is not the way to go because it can be turned around and we all wind up in the nut house.  

    Why it is so hard to accept that some people just have a different idea of funny or what is normal?  This stuff has always been a part of the human condition in that some just do not like different and no amount of public service announcements or laws is going to change that.

    Again once it escalates to violence we are talking a different ballgame.  The internet, social media and the 24 hour so called news cycle has brought to the forefront what has always been there.  This is every culture and not just in America so anyone who thinks their society is somehow above it all is full of shite.
    hate speech isn't funny
    Hate speech isn't real. Fact. :/
    Hate Speech is very real and if you say otherwise you more than likely practice hate speech often.

    Fact. :/ 
    Fun fact for you. If you consider Hate speech as being real, then you have been using it against others. Also Fact. ;)

    man huh?


    What do you call homophobic slurs? What do you call Racial slurs? What do you call sexist slurs? Oh I'm sorry, I must've missed the memo where all those things are considered Love and not hate. 
    Not what i was saying, in fact i find your interpretation of what i was saying as being deeply offensive. Are you engaging in 'hate speech' ?
    Sit this one out big dog. 

    There is only one way to interpret what you said:

    "If you consider Hate speech as being real, then you have been using it against others. Also Fact. ;)"

    10/10 people would say according to your words, that you believe hate speech isn't real. Sit down. Bad try at trying to change the narrative. 
    I have asserted that hate speech isn't real and even provided one of the many arguments that explains why it is wrong, hideously wrong, that does not mean that things people say cannot be offensive, just that the term itself creates injustice.
    People say things that others find offensive all the time, thats life and if there is one thing that the freedom of speech guarantees is that you have the right to say things that some people might find offensive, hate speech is a term used as a form of censorship and that inevitably hurts everyone, because once you start treading down the path of saying that people do not have the right to say anything that can be found offensive by anyone, freedom of opinion of thought of association are the casualty.
    Hate speech is just a tool of oppression, laws protecting people from abuse whether by word of mouth or physical already exist in abundance without such draconian measures as 'hate speech'  :/
    Jordan Peterson explains this so much better than i ever could, i just wish to god more people would listen more and not be so quick to judge others they disagree with, we are imperfect beings that make mistakes from time to time, if we can't even talk about things without worrying if someone is offended then we'll never solve our problems :/

    You have no idea what hate speech is do you.
    Unfortunately i have very real concerns about things like that. 
    https://www.christianconcern.com/our-issues/freedom/scotlands-alarming-hate-posters
    When you 'invent' a crime such as 'hate speech' the results are not pretty and are easily turned into 'persecution' there are already enough existing laws that protect people from abuse, without criminilising peoples critical opinions that are often 'fact based' and if you think that doesn't happen then you are perhaps the one who needs to read between the lines of what 'hate speech' means.
  • klash2defklash2def Member EpicPosts: 1,542
    edited December 2018


    Edit: A rando white kid screaming "die you fucking nworder" in my ear every ten seconds isn't even close to satire. It's hate speech. Please don't ever use that lame attempt ever again in your life. 

    I always wonder when I read stuff like this how you know it's a white kid and how they know you are black?

    Nobody online has the slightest idea what race or races I am... and while I certainly find the random idiot I never face anything close to what you describe.


    I'm basing my ear off the voice. I work in audio for a living at the highest level. I understand timbre and tones and  I used to work with kids. we are not going to sit here and pretend like lingo and dialects aren't a real thing. I can tell when I'm talking to a white kid or a black kid. Also being black, when I hear those things, I ALWAYS ask "Hey what racial ethnicity are you?" When its racial I always ask to make sure I'm right and 9/10 I'm right. A few times it was other than white but never black kids saying shit like that. Its not the black kids online saying die "nworder" die over and over dude.

    I will admit I do hear the black kids using homophobic slurs and when I do, I tell them its not cool. I explain why its not and they usually don't do it again the rest of the session. I am the same way I am here on this forum I am everywhere. I am very passionate about human rights and equality. If I'm making a difference in 1 persons life then so be it. Whatever it takes. As long as the seed is planted that that shit is wrong that's all I can hope for. 

    Also just because you don't experience something, does not indicate it does not happen and often. 
    Post edited by klash2def on
    Slapshot1188parrotpholk
    "PSA: We live in a multicultural world. Nobody is "forcing" diversity. Earth is already Diverse."

    "Everything that happens is a political act, and the only people that get to pretend otherwise are those privileged enough to not have politics impact them at all." ~Taliesin
     
    Currently: Games Audio Engineer
    You've heard what I've heard

  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 33,964
    Was it stupid? Yes. Were they clearly laughing, joking, and making the comments in a tongue-in-cheek fashion as opposed to espousing actual hatred of homosexuals? Yes. 

    The 3-day ban was arguably appropriate, since there was clearly no malice involved. A permanent ban is a gross overreaction, though given the overall quality of FO76 I'd say Bethesda was actually doing them a favor.

    As for the guy who reported them, well, he needs to grow a much thicker skin. If this kind of thing sends him crying to Mommy Bethesda, he's going to have a very hard time in this world when he runs across actual hate based on superficial characteristics. There are no safe spaces to run to in the world at large. 
    I suspect the permaban came after the perpetrators posted the video up themselves, not from the initial report.

    Only in the internet are people somewhat safe from repercussions from distasteful behavior.

    There are no parallels in real life where behaving as these folks did would earn a stern rebuke at the very least, likely escorted out the door in most establishments, and in the case of my employer be fired.

    It's far past time for good men and women to do something, even on the internet.
    klash2def

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • rodarinrodarin Member RarePosts: 2,451


    Also, are we all going to make believe that a person who would go "queer hunting" at a strangers expense (no matter the circumstance) doesn't have a character/personality flaw that might need some addressing? Let's not do that.
    Assuming that they have a flaw or mental defect is a dangerous road to go down.

    Some might argue that a person who swears they are one gender while biologically another has a flaw or defect.  That thought process is not the way to go because it can be turned around and we all wind up in the nut house.  

    Why it is so hard to accept that some people just have a different idea of funny or what is normal?  This stuff has always been a part of the human condition in that some just do not like different and no amount of public service announcements or laws is going to change that.

    Again once it escalates to violence we are talking a different ballgame.  The internet, social media and the 24 hour so called news cycle has brought to the forefront what has always been there.  This is every culture and not just in America so anyone who thinks their society is somehow above it all is full of shite.
    hate speech isn't funny
    Not to go all crazy about this but says who? A lot of people hate the president why? A lot of people hate his opponents why? A lot of people hate cats. A lot of people hate dogs. A lot of people talk bad about a lot of things and people. Just because a majority or even a lot of people THINK something doesnt make it true or false.

    News flash--- people have hated other people for no 'good' reason since there have been people. People have talked bad about people for as long as there have been people.

    The greatest irony to all this is the hypocrisy that has crept into one side (both sides) or the other when they describe their 'haters'. SO while the 'sympathetic' side can say and spew all the 'hate' speech they want the offending side is the real problem. Its pretty funny. As in humorous. But not to the side getting targeted. 

    What about People who believe in God or some religion being subjected to hearing people say "Jesus Christ'' or 'God Damn it' or any other epithet that people say that offends another group? (and breaks one of the 10 commandments which i know doesnt mean anything these days). Why are people who swear or use profanity to the point of excess banned or even reprimanded? And dont use the "religious people shouldnt be playing (fill in the game name here)'' because that is as stereotypical and one sided as thinking homosexuals or blacks or white or (fill in the group here) shouldnt be playing a certain game or around a certain  atmosphere. Now an argument MIGHT be made that those words arent being being directly aimed at a single person. But if a group of guys went around screaming 'you F-ing Bible thumpers, collar wearing no sex before marriage virgins' or if they targeted a Mormon specifically (with all the things Mormons do that people find hilariously funny and easy to pick on) then what?

    No matter what you or me or anyone thinks someone is going to find something someone says about someone else or a group of someone elses that is off color or 'wrong' or even 'hate speech' and some people are going to find it not only funny but hilarious.

    Of course it can go too far (on both sides) where it becomes 'cruel' but then again who determines that thresh hold?

    The FO 76 guys can do whatever they want to whomever they want. Its their game. But when people all start trying to play morality police those people need to just stop.


    parrotpholkPhry
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 11,062
    klash2def said:


    Edit: A rando white kid screaming "die you fucking nworder" in my ear every ten seconds isn't even close to satire. It's hate speech. Please don't ever use that lame attempt ever again in your life. 

    I always wonder when I read stuff like this how you know it's a white kid and how they know you are black?

    Nobody online has the slightest idea what race or races I am... and while I certainly find the random idiot I never face anything close to what you describe.


    I'm basing my ear off the voice. I work in audio for a living. I understand timbre and tones and  I used to work with kids. we are not going to sit here and pretend like lingo and dialects aren't a real thing. I can tell when I'm talking to a white kid or a black kid. Also being black, when I hear those things, I ALWAYS ask "Hey what racial ethnicity are you?" When its racial I always ask to make sure I'm right and 9/10 I'm right. A few times it was other than white but never black kids saying shit like that. Its not the black kids online saying die "nworder" die over and over dude.


    Sorry but this is the dumbest thing I have ever heard.  

    You know, I personally have gamed with the same group since DAOC launched and I honestly have no idea what race some of them are.  Sometimes their characters are white, sometimes they are black, sometimes they are asian and sometimes they are elven/dwarven/alien. I do not know if any of them are gay (do know some are straight as they refer to their wives...). Because none of that matters.  We are simply a group of friends.

    We have been on voice chat for over 17 years.  

    It must be horrible to live in a world where every single thing is seen through a perspective of what category someone can be put in.
    Phry

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

    My ignore list finally has one occupant after 12 years. I am the strongest supporter of free speech on here, but free speech does not mean forced listening. Have fun my friend. Hope you find a new stalking target.

  • ArthurpendragonArthurpendragon Member UncommonPosts: 1
    klash2def said:
    @Phry Hate Speech isn't just "Judging people we disagree with." super pretentious of you to think you can just boil such a sensitive thing down to just "Disagreeing".  But, Let me help. 

    Hatred: Racial Slurs, Homophobic Slurs, Sexist slurs,  etc

    Hate Speech: Hate speech is speech that attacks a person or group on the basis of attributes such as race, religion, ethnic origin, national origin, sex, disability, sexual orientation, or gender identity. - Official Definition

    Excuse the raw form but for effect i'm not blurring out any of these hate speech slurs. I don't want you being confused on what hate speech looks like.

    "Why are there niggers in my game" 
    "You stupid faggot"
    "Stay in the kitchen you dumb bitch"
    "I hope all Muslims die."

    I heard all of these this week in ONE game. Those are four examples out of millions used daily. again.. I very plainly ask wtf you are talking about. 

    Stop equating your own personal limited belief to others very real reality. Its real. No matter how much you want to tuck your head under the cover and pretend its not. As a white person instead of acting like its not real, try being an ally to the people affected. Stand up and say something when you see that shit. There should be a no tolerance policy for hate speech on all media platforms. It does not matter what you personally believe. 

    being gay and black  i long ago learned where the blacklist function is on every online game i play  .. you would think in 2018 that people weren't as stupid/intolerable as they are an i wouldnt have to do that. i currently  dont plan to play this game cause of all the bugs i hear about not because of this fiasco. just wanted to let you know i appreciate you trying to educate the masses on here but as you can see from the responses on here it;s just some people you never gonna get through to. when you're raised a certain way and/or only around a certain subset of people majority or their lives they dont either care/want to understand what may offend anyone outside their "bubble".. its sort of that "get over it " attitude that i seen within people who dont understand what is hate speech... until it directly affects them or a family member. way too many young people out here losing their lives to suicide because of words people need to wake up. 
    klash2def
  • cheyanecheyane Member EpicPosts: 6,379
    edited December 2018
    I disagree that by complaining this means the person complaining is weak and they will fall apart in real life. Au contraire , I think the person is using what means is available to them and making sure they get the persons that bothered them into trouble. It's payback, best form since they got banned for life.

    I think they got the last laugh. Has it ever occurred to you that people these days understand the climate very well and use it to their benefit. Why should I have to change channel or server or switch off something when I can get rid of you instead?

    They stayed and made sure they recorded all the juicy bits and spread it around and got the douches banned. Nice hatchet job...bravo!

    We the older generation were the morons that kept quiet and took shit, fight back and make it a lethal blow...banned for life now there's a punishment that didn't fit the crime but damn it felt good didn't it. Young people these days are bad ass and they are using the methods that work currently. What worked for us don't work for them. 
    klash2def
    image
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 33,964
    I have a controversial different take on this. I'm for not banning anyone. If you can't handle words you are way to sensitive. I'm not politically correct. PvP should be ruthless and crazy. Let all things happen. Good or bad people are who they are. I feel today's younger generation is way too sensitive and needs to toughen up a bit. I love it when players can say what they want and do what they want. It makes PvP more exciting and tactical. Words can't hurt you. They are just words and you can ignore it.

    Cheers...
    Let's make it even more exciting and require players to post their real  life names and addresses so they never know who might show up for some "real PVP."

    What,  no? Man up boyo.

     :D 

    klash2def

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • KellerKeller Member UncommonPosts: 602
    First rule of the internet should be: "If you can't say something nice, don't say anything."

    Glad Bethesda did something about it. Hopefully they can also do something when people didn't record their incidents.
    mrputts
  • klash2defklash2def Member EpicPosts: 1,542
    edited December 2018
    klash2def said:


    Edit: A rando white kid screaming "die you fucking nworder" in my ear every ten seconds isn't even close to satire. It's hate speech. Please don't ever use that lame attempt ever again in your life. 

    I always wonder when I read stuff like this how you know it's a white kid and how they know you are black?

    Nobody online has the slightest idea what race or races I am... and while I certainly find the random idiot I never face anything close to what you describe.


    I'm basing my ear off the voice. I work in audio for a living. I understand timbre and tones and  I used to work with kids. we are not going to sit here and pretend like lingo and dialects aren't a real thing. I can tell when I'm talking to a white kid or a black kid. Also being black, when I hear those things, I ALWAYS ask "Hey what racial ethnicity are you?" When its racial I always ask to make sure I'm right and 9/10 I'm right. A few times it was other than white but never black kids saying shit like that. Its not the black kids online saying die "nworder" die over and over dude.


    Sorry but this is the dumbest thing I have ever heard.  

    You know, I personally have gamed with the same group since DAOC launched and I honestly have no idea what race some of them are.  Sometimes their characters are white, sometimes they are black, sometimes they are asian and sometimes they are elven/dwarven/alien. I do not know if any of them are gay (do know some are straight as they refer to their wives...). Because none of that matters.  We are simply a group of friends.

    We have been on voice chat for over 17 years.  

    It must be horrible to live in a world where every single thing is seen through a perspective of what category someone can be put in.
    You are right about one thing, it is horrible to live in a world where every single thing is seen through a perspective of what category someone can be put in. Its also horrible to be put into a category against your own will. I didn't make any of these concepts, I report on the reality of said concepts. 

    For instance, being a 6ft3 200pd athletically built black man with dreads like myself. I cant help what I look like but guess what, the police still treat me like a criminal for walking around my mainly "white" neighborhood. These are the constructs put into the world by a certain group of people. Newsflash, it wasn't my ancestors making the American laws hundreds of years ago. 

    You do the "I dont see color" shit when really you need to see color and treat everyone equally from that point of view. There is color in the world and its beautiful. Stop trying to hide from reality because it makes you uncomfortable. 

    Good for you and your friends that you have no idea what race they are because you don't see color. :/

    Its important to see color to fully understand and appreciate what people are. Gamer isn't a race of people its a hobby. Those people you play with are more than their avatars. They are people. That's the beautiful thing about Earth. 
    "PSA: We live in a multicultural world. Nobody is "forcing" diversity. Earth is already Diverse."

    "Everything that happens is a political act, and the only people that get to pretend otherwise are those privileged enough to not have politics impact them at all." ~Taliesin
     
    Currently: Games Audio Engineer
    You've heard what I've heard

  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 33,964
    edited December 2018
    Grunty said:
    Grunty said:
    You can either stay in a bubble and let asshats take over society or you can toughen up, call them out for their behavior and ostracize and ban them in order to help make the best of the life you and other non-asshats have to live.

    That ban hammer isn't heavy enough.

    Without getting overly political or preachy I disagree.

    Everyone needs to have a thick skin and cannot get offended by every poor attempt at humor out there.  To ostracize and ban is what the people claiming to be persecuted are fighting against so you would propose to have the same behavior in return because you believe whatever it is on your end.

    This is the problem with the world in that there is now zero tolerance for any opinion that it is not your own.  So instead of creating acceptance and tolerance you have created the ultimate intolerance.  People need to grow up and move on instead of thinking they can change every individuals way of thinking.  World is full of individuals and they are every single one entitled to their personal views and the expression of those views.  You may not agree with them but it is their right.  I am not a fan of bigots or the antifa crowd but both have the same right to have their views.  If both ends would accept that and move on then the world would be better.  Instead we get riots and violence in the streets.

    Somewhere along the line people actually came to thing that their views and beliefs trumped someone elses which is a shame.  It kills diversity and does not promote it.

    /rant off
    I can accept some behavior from friends because I know where they are coming from.  I will not accept that behavior from people who are not my friends. 

    Having been sexually assaulted twice in my lifetime there is some behavior I will not accept from anyone. 
    Somewhat hypocritical that you are fine with  your friends doing it but not someone else so I would be lying if I was to say I understand that.  You take time to understand behavior from one group over another.

    I would never advocate for sexual abuse or violence of any kind though against someone.  We are talking about words and someones bad attempt at humor and if they should get a lifetime ban for that in an online environment.  That is a big difference between that and assault.
    Surely you understand friends can say things in jest to each other which are inappropriate to say to a complete stranger right?

    Or that comedians of a particular ethnicity can make stereotypical jokes of their own "people" whereas someone not a member of the same group cannot.

    For example, I am an "older" person, I can get away with telling funny stories about other older people without offending many, even in my own age group.  Should a 20 something do the same people would bristle.....

    Just the weird way humor works and why it often gets misunderstood when taken the wrong way.

    Also why in business writing its always recommended to leave attempts at humor out, too often is not received well.

    Far too many fistfights have been started over, "hey, I was only joking."
    klash2defJeffSpicoli

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • asdfsdf34534asdfsdf34534 Member UncommonPosts: 52
    Good, I don't get why game devs put up with any of that shit.
    klash2def
  • cheyanecheyane Member EpicPosts: 6,379
    edited December 2018
    nickiamx said:
    Good, I don't get why game devs put up with any of that shit.
    You're confusing me with that avatar thought you were @thunderC
    image
  • parrotpholkparrotpholk Member EpicPosts: 4,602
    Kyleran said:
    Grunty said:
    Grunty said:
    You can either stay in a bubble and let asshats take over society or you can toughen up, call them out for their behavior and ostracize and ban them in order to help make the best of the life you and other non-asshats have to live.

    That ban hammer isn't heavy enough.

    Without getting overly political or preachy I disagree.

    Everyone needs to have a thick skin and cannot get offended by every poor attempt at humor out there.  To ostracize and ban is what the people claiming to be persecuted are fighting against so you would propose to have the same behavior in return because you believe whatever it is on your end.

    This is the problem with the world in that there is now zero tolerance for any opinion that it is not your own.  So instead of creating acceptance and tolerance you have created the ultimate intolerance.  People need to grow up and move on instead of thinking they can change every individuals way of thinking.  World is full of individuals and they are every single one entitled to their personal views and the expression of those views.  You may not agree with them but it is their right.  I am not a fan of bigots or the antifa crowd but both have the same right to have their views.  If both ends would accept that and move on then the world would be better.  Instead we get riots and violence in the streets.

    Somewhere along the line people actually came to thing that their views and beliefs trumped someone elses which is a shame.  It kills diversity and does not promote it.

    /rant off
    I can accept some behavior from friends because I know where they are coming from.  I will not accept that behavior from people who are not my friends. 

    Having been sexually assaulted twice in my lifetime there is some behavior I will not accept from anyone. 
    Somewhat hypocritical that you are fine with  your friends doing it but not someone else so I would be lying if I was to say I understand that.  You take time to understand behavior from one group over another.

    I would never advocate for sexual abuse or violence of any kind though against someone.  We are talking about words and someones bad attempt at humor and if they should get a lifetime ban for that in an online environment.  That is a big difference between that and assault.
    Surely you understand friends can say things in jest to each other which are inappropriate to say to a complete stranger right?

    Or that comedian 
    S
    Nope.  In context of what people are saying here, everyone must be held to same standard or you (not you specifically Kyle) are part of the problem.  If it is ok for your friends then it is ok for everyone is the signal you are sending.

    My personal beliefs are many on this topic but at this point everyone is going in a circle and I wish everyone luck in finding ultimate enlightenment and expecting the human race to be excellent to each other.

    That and never listen to a stand up comedian again......
  • PhryPhry Member LegendaryPosts: 11,004
    Kyleran said:
    I have a controversial different take on this. I'm for not banning anyone. If you can't handle words you are way to sensitive. I'm not politically correct. PvP should be ruthless and crazy. Let all things happen. Good or bad people are who they are. I feel today's younger generation is way too sensitive and needs to toughen up a bit. I love it when players can say what they want and do what they want. It makes PvP more exciting and tactical. Words can't hurt you. They are just words and you can ignore it.

    Cheers...
    Let's make it even more exciting and require players to post their real  life names and addresses so they never know who might show up for some "real PVP."

    What,  no? Man up boyo.

     :D 

    If you are an Eve player you have an unfair advantage, its not a decent fight if there aren't thousands involved  ;)

    Games and Reality are two very different things, i prefer my favourite hobby remains free from IRL contamination, god only knows how bad things would truly become if we don't. :/
  • JeffSpicoliJeffSpicoli Member EpicPosts: 2,849
    Did anyone hear about the B list actor who has banned from instagram for Cat shaming ? lol Political Correctness, Slippery Slope ?


    cheyane
    • Aloha Mr Hand ! 

  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 11,062
    klash2def said:
    klash2def said:


    Edit: A rando white kid screaming "die you fucking nworder" in my ear every ten seconds isn't even close to satire. It's hate speech. Please don't ever use that lame attempt ever again in your life. 

    I always wonder when I read stuff like this how you know it's a white kid and how they know you are black?

    Nobody online has the slightest idea what race or races I am... and while I certainly find the random idiot I never face anything close to what you describe.


    I'm basing my ear off the voice. I work in audio for a living. I understand timbre and tones and  I used to work with kids. we are not going to sit here and pretend like lingo and dialects aren't a real thing. I can tell when I'm talking to a white kid or a black kid. Also being black, when I hear those things, I ALWAYS ask "Hey what racial ethnicity are you?" When its racial I always ask to make sure I'm right and 9/10 I'm right. A few times it was other than white but never black kids saying shit like that. Its not the black kids online saying die "nworder" die over and over dude.


    Sorry but this is the dumbest thing I have ever heard.  

    You know, I personally have gamed with the same group since DAOC launched and I honestly have no idea what race some of them are.  Sometimes their characters are white, sometimes they are black, sometimes they are asian and sometimes they are elven/dwarven/alien. I do not know if any of them are gay (do know some are straight as they refer to their wives...). Because none of that matters.  We are simply a group of friends.

    We have been on voice chat for over 17 years.  

    It must be horrible to live in a world where every single thing is seen through a perspective of what category someone can be put in.
    You are right about one thing, it is horrible to live in a world where every single thing is seen through a perspective of what category someone can be put in. Its also horrible to be put into a category against your own will. I didn't make any of these concepts, I report on the reality of said concepts. 

    For instance, being a 6ft3 athletically built black man with dreads like myself. I cant help what I look like but guess what, the police still treat me like a criminal for walking around my mainly "white" neighborhood. These are the constructs put into the world by a certain group of people. Newsflash, it wasn't my ancestors making the American laws hundreds of years ago. 

    You do the "I dont see color" shit when really you need to see color and treat everyone equally from that point of view. There is color in the world and its beautiful. Stop trying to hide from reality because it makes you uncomfortable. 

    Good for you and your friends that you have no idea what race they are because you don't see color. :/

    Its important to see color to fully understand and appreciate what people are. Gamer isn't a race of people its a hobby. Those people you play with are more than their avatars. They are people. That's the beautiful thing about Earth. 
    My point is that... in the online world NOBODY needs to know what "category" people put us into in real life.  Nobody sees what color you are or know what sexuality you are or religion or anything else.

    It's like the scene from The Empire Strikes Back where Luke goes into the cave and asks whats inside.  Yoda responds "Only what you take with you".

    I prefer not to focus on our differences but rather on our similarities.  And that is really, really easy to do in an online world when compared to the real world where like you say... as soon as someone looks at you they immediately see one or more categories that they might put you in.

    In an online world.. as Yoda said.. what's inside is "Only what you take with you"


    Phry

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

    My ignore list finally has one occupant after 12 years. I am the strongest supporter of free speech on here, but free speech does not mean forced listening. Have fun my friend. Hope you find a new stalking target.

  • cheyanecheyane Member EpicPosts: 6,379
    klash2def said:
    klash2def said:


    Edit: A rando white kid screaming "die you fucking nworder" in my ear every ten seconds isn't even close to satire. It's hate speech. Please don't ever use that lame attempt ever again in your life. 

    I always wonder when I read stuff like this how you know it's a white kid and how they know you are black?

    Nobody online has the slightest idea what race or races I am... and while I certainly find the random idiot I never face anything close to what you describe.


    I'm basing my ear off the voice. I work in audio for a living. I understand timbre and tones and  I used to work with kids. we are not going to sit here and pretend like lingo and dialects aren't a real thing. I can tell when I'm talking to a white kid or a black kid. Also being black, when I hear those things, I ALWAYS ask "Hey what racial ethnicity are you?" When its racial I always ask to make sure I'm right and 9/10 I'm right. A few times it was other than white but never black kids saying shit like that. Its not the black kids online saying die "nworder" die over and over dude.


    Sorry but this is the dumbest thing I have ever heard.  

    You know, I personally have gamed with the same group since DAOC launched and I honestly have no idea what race some of them are.  Sometimes their characters are white, sometimes they are black, sometimes they are asian and sometimes they are elven/dwarven/alien. I do not know if any of them are gay (do know some are straight as they refer to their wives...). Because none of that matters.  We are simply a group of friends.

    We have been on voice chat for over 17 years.  

    It must be horrible to live in a world where every single thing is seen through a perspective of what category someone can be put in.
    You are right about one thing, it is horrible to live in a world where every single thing is seen through a perspective of what category someone can be put in. Its also horrible to be put into a category against your own will. I didn't make any of these concepts, I report on the reality of said concepts. 

    For instance, being a 6ft3 athletically built black man with dreads like myself. I cant help what I look like but guess what, the police still treat me like a criminal for walking around my mainly "white" neighborhood. These are the constructs put into the world by a certain group of people. Newsflash, it wasn't my ancestors making the American laws hundreds of years ago. 

    You do the "I dont see color" shit when really you need to see color and treat everyone equally from that point of view. There is color in the world and its beautiful. Stop trying to hide from reality because it makes you uncomfortable. 

    Good for you and your friends that you have no idea what race they are because you don't see color. :/

    Its important to see color to fully understand and appreciate what people are. Gamer isn't a race of people its a hobby. Those people you play with are more than their avatars. They are people. That's the beautiful thing about Earth. 
    My point is that... in the online world NOBODY needs to know what "category" people put us into in real life.  Nobody sees what color you are or know what sexuality you are or religion or anything else.

    It's like the scene from The Empire Strikes Back where Luke goes into the cave and asks whats inside.  Yoda responds "Only what you take with you".

    I prefer not to focus on our differences but rather on our similarities.  And that is really, really easy to do in an online world when compared to the real world where like you say... as soon as someone looks at you they immediately see one or more categories that they might put you in.

    In an online world.. as Yoda said.. what's inside is "Only what you take with you"


    Unfortunately people bring real world stuff into games. You cannot ignore it and I think I should not have to. I will instead use the tools available to me to get rid of the people who do. Tough but if you cannot do the time don't do the crime.
    image
  • klash2defklash2def Member EpicPosts: 1,542
    edited December 2018
    klash2def said:
    klash2def said:


    Edit: A rando white kid screaming "die you fucking nworder" in my ear every ten seconds isn't even close to satire. It's hate speech. Please don't ever use that lame attempt ever again in your life. 

    I always wonder when I read stuff like this how you know it's a white kid and how they know you are black?

    Nobody online has the slightest idea what race or races I am... and while I certainly find the random idiot I never face anything close to what you describe.


    I'm basing my ear off the voice. I work in audio for a living. I understand timbre and tones and  I used to work with kids. we are not going to sit here and pretend like lingo and dialects aren't a real thing. I can tell when I'm talking to a white kid or a black kid. Also being black, when I hear those things, I ALWAYS ask "Hey what racial ethnicity are you?" When its racial I always ask to make sure I'm right and 9/10 I'm right. A few times it was other than white but never black kids saying shit like that. Its not the black kids online saying die "nworder" die over and over dude.


    Sorry but this is the dumbest thing I have ever heard.  

    You know, I personally have gamed with the same group since DAOC launched and I honestly have no idea what race some of them are.  Sometimes their characters are white, sometimes they are black, sometimes they are asian and sometimes they are elven/dwarven/alien. I do not know if any of them are gay (do know some are straight as they refer to their wives...). Because none of that matters.  We are simply a group of friends.

    We have been on voice chat for over 17 years.  

    It must be horrible to live in a world where every single thing is seen through a perspective of what category someone can be put in.
    You are right about one thing, it is horrible to live in a world where every single thing is seen through a perspective of what category someone can be put in. Its also horrible to be put into a category against your own will. I didn't make any of these concepts, I report on the reality of said concepts. 

    For instance, being a 6ft3 athletically built black man with dreads like myself. I cant help what I look like but guess what, the police still treat me like a criminal for walking around my mainly "white" neighborhood. These are the constructs put into the world by a certain group of people. Newsflash, it wasn't my ancestors making the American laws hundreds of years ago. 

    You do the "I dont see color" shit when really you need to see color and treat everyone equally from that point of view. There is color in the world and its beautiful. Stop trying to hide from reality because it makes you uncomfortable. 

    Good for you and your friends that you have no idea what race they are because you don't see color. :/

    Its important to see color to fully understand and appreciate what people are. Gamer isn't a race of people its a hobby. Those people you play with are more than their avatars. They are people. That's the beautiful thing about Earth. 
    My point is that... in the online world NOBODY needs to know what "category" people put us into in real life.  Nobody sees what color you are or know what sexuality you are or religion or anything else.

    It's like the scene from The Empire Strikes Back where Luke goes into the cave and asks whats inside.  Yoda responds "Only what you take with you".

    I prefer not to focus on our differences but rather on our similarities.  And that is really, really easy to do in an online world when compared to the real world where like you say... as soon as someone looks at you they immediately see one or more categories that they might put you in.

    In an online world.. as Yoda said.. what's inside is "Only what you take with you"


    You do realize that things people say in a online space can have real world implications? Just curious if you know this. Also while I do not disagree with your latest post, you make it sound as if knowing the race of your online friends is going to lessen the experience. As if those people are really only avatars and not actual people in your life. 

    Knowing what category they may be forced into(we all are in one) will help build your understanding of the person behind the avatar. what if one of your friends is crippled, or Trans?  Muslim? Wouldn't that be awesome to you to know what walk of life they are on? You've known these people almost 20 years.. it would be awesome to have a deeper understanding of who they are as people. There is nothing wrong with that, you guys are friends already anyway correct? Why not get to know your friends.
    "PSA: We live in a multicultural world. Nobody is "forcing" diversity. Earth is already Diverse."

    "Everything that happens is a political act, and the only people that get to pretend otherwise are those privileged enough to not have politics impact them at all." ~Taliesin
     
    Currently: Games Audio Engineer
    You've heard what I've heard

  • JeffSpicoliJeffSpicoli Member EpicPosts: 2,849
    thunderC said:
    Did anyone hear about the B list actor who has banned from instagram for Cat shaming ? lol Political Correctness, Slippery Slope ?


    I also want to add to my own post a Christmas song from the 40's called Baby its old outside was banned over the weekend by a Cleveland radio station because a few Callers found the song to be predatory to women. Forget slippery slope, this is becoming slip n slide

    story https://ew.com/music/2018/12/02/baby-its-cold-outside-banned-by-cleveland-radio-station/


    song 
    • Aloha Mr Hand ! 

  • OG_ZorvanOG_Zorvan Member EpicPosts: 1,855
    klash2def said:


    Edit: A rando white kid screaming "die you fucking nworder" in my ear every ten seconds isn't even close to satire. It's hate speech. Please don't ever use that lame attempt ever again in your life. 

    I always wonder when I read stuff like this how you know it's a white kid and how they know you are black?

    Nobody online has the slightest idea what race or races I am... and while I certainly find the random idiot I never face anything close to what you describe.


    I'm basing my ear off the voice. I work in audio for a living. I understand timbre and tones and  I used to work with kids. we are not going to sit here and pretend like lingo and dialects aren't a real thing. I can tell when I'm talking to a white kid or a black kid. Also being black, when I hear those things, I ALWAYS ask "Hey what racial ethnicity are you?" When its racial I always ask to make sure I'm right and 9/10 I'm right. A few times it was other than white but never black kids saying shit like that. Its not the black kids online saying die "nworder" die over and over dude.

    I will admit I do hear the black kids using homophobic slurs and when I do, I tell them its not cool. I explain why its not and they usually don't do it again the rest of the session. I am the same way I am here on this forum I am everywhere. I am very passionate about human rights and equality. If I'm making a difference in 1 persons life then so be it. Whatever it takes. As long as the seed is planted that that shit is wrong that's all I can hope for. 

    Also just because you don't experience something, does not indicate it does not happen and often. 
    I'll just ask the million dollar question: do you also believe black people can't be racist? I'm just curious, since you're quick to point out that even when it's not whites saying racial shit, you just know it's most definitely not black kids. And no, I'm not buying the "I ask every time and they tell me what race they are every time" bullshit either. I can tell you right now, most people asked that are going to tell you "Who the fuck are you and why are you asking my race for?". Also, I'm willing to bet you could find plenty of black kids screaming "I'ma kill that nigga!" into their Xbone mics but your "audio experience" will tell you they sound just like white kids. Especially since all black kids don't sound "black" as I'm sureryou think "black" sounds.

    By the way, while yes you sometimes can get a hint of someone's race by their voice ( usually older people ), you cannot always. I, for example, grew up in a shithole ghetto. I'm white, yet depending on who I was hanging with at the time you heard my voice you could've very easily mistaken me for latino or black, because part of fitting in was learning the lingo and accents. That's what kids do, they adapt to their environment. Your experience in audio wouldn't have made a damn bit of difference. In fact, if you'd said you had experience in linguistics, you might have had a stronger case on that one. Maybe.
    JeffSpicoli


    MMORPG.COM took away my swinging cheerleader butt .gif.

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