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Failing MMOs

Jamar870Jamar870 Member UncommonPosts: 457
What are the signs of a failing MMO?
Phaserlight
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  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 36,357
    Conversion to a F2P payment model.
    PhryPhaserlightpierthScotCaffynatedJeffSpicolitweedledumb99ceratop001craftseeker

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing FO76 at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

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  • ConstantineMerusConstantineMerus Member EpicPosts: 2,697
    Kyleran said:
    Conversion to a F2P payment model.
    That could mean the failure of the monetization model not the game itself, since many games have been thriving for many years after the conversation. But I get what you mean. 
    PhaserlightAllerleirauhmgilbrtsn
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  • Jamar870Jamar870 Member UncommonPosts: 457
    I would posit that Tera might well fit as a failing MMO.
    Phaserlight
  • rojoArcueidrojoArcueid Member EpicPosts: 10,407
    edited November 2018
    MMOs where the priority is adding more content to the cash shop instead of the game.

    Those are failing hard IMO and aren't worth anyone's time and money.
    Phaserlightpierthaleos




  • CryomatrixCryomatrix Member EpicPosts: 2,960
    edited November 2018
    It is made and/or developed by NCsoft, Neowiz, or Trion.
    PhaserlightUngood
    Catch me streaming at twitch.tv/cryomatrix
    You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations. 
  • mmoloummolou Member UncommonPosts: 245
    The only true sign that an MMO is failing, is a Publisher/Dev announcement that they are closing down the servers.

    At that point, they have decided that no more money can be milked by the MMO, so it has failed.

    Anything else is just anecdotal.
    TheScavenger
    It is a funny world we live in.
    We had Empires run by Emperors, we had Kingdoms run by Kings, now we have Countries...
  • iixviiiixiixviiiix Member RarePosts: 2,131
    Jamar870 said:
    What are the signs of a failing MMO?
    When in game gold lost it value .
    PhaserlightUngood
  • PottedPlant22PottedPlant22 Member RarePosts: 800
    DMKano said:
    Lack of patches/updates, low population, zero communication from devs, unanswered support tickets that sit there for months....

    I agree with Kano.  Lack of communication is a big sign for me.  Not fixing long standing bugs and updates is another.  MMOs are social endeavors.  The company publishing/developing the game needs to keep engaged with the community.  That doesn't necessarily mean do everything the majority want, but open communication for a game to grow is a must.
  • PhaserlightPhaserlight Member EpicPosts: 3,002
    There are so many individual differences, who knows really? Every MMO I've ever played is still going, to my knowledge. Can any of these truly be said to have failed? 

    Some good posts in this interesting topic, though. Let me add my own negative indicator: if the game ever closes down temporarily or is sold off to a different company.
    KyleraniixviiiixHatefull

    "The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar
    Authored 139 missions in Vendetta Online and 6 tracks in Distance

  • TEKK3NTEKK3N Member RarePosts: 1,115
    The obvious sign used to be Subscription to Free to Play.
    Now almost every MMO is F2P, since all recent MMOs are at best mediocre, and they can't command a Subscription model anymore.
    Amaranthar
  • Oldtimer72Oldtimer72 Member UncommonPosts: 9
    The last good MMO back in the day was FFXIV and WOW. Since that time almost every mmo has been craptastic. Sure some like GW2 has had a mild appeal to gamers but no mmo these days gets anyone really excited anymore.  Dying for a good mmo to play. I may give FFXIV a shot.
  • MendelMendel Member EpicPosts: 3,903
    DMKano said:
    Lack of patches/updates, low population, zero communication from devs, unanswered support tickets that sit there for months....




    I'm on board with this.  I'm not quite sure about the DLC model, where patches and fixes are made via new content leaving those without that content (chapter or expansion or other semantic wrangling) dangling.  Fix the product.



    Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.

  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 36,357
    edited November 2018
    TEKK3N said:
    The obvious sign used to be Subscription to Free to Play.
    Now almost every MMO is F2P, since all recent MMOs are at best mediocre, and they can't command a Subscription model anymore.
    One way MMOs games have been able to draw in large subscription (or patreon) figures is to offer something more or less unique to their player base which other titles don't have, be it a desirable IP, (FFXIV), sandbox style gameplay, (EVE), or an immensely popular market presence (WOW).

    Another way is to tie almost unbearable to live without (by intentional design) singular features such as unlimited storage space (TESO),  access to large amounts of content (again, EVE) or providing additional "energy" so players can spend more time focusing on crafting or other preferred activities (ArchAge)

    Otherwise you are correct,  the sub model hasn't proven sustainable for a game which offers nothing more than an average playing experience,  far too many titles players can find such with a F2P payment model.
    Ungood

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing FO76 at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • AmatheAmathe Member LegendaryPosts: 7,380
    Server closures/mergers.

    Any "new game experience."

    EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests

  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 36,357
    Kyleran said:
    Conversion to a F2P payment model.
    That could mean the failure of the monetization model not the game itself, since many games have been thriving for many years after the conversation. But I get what you mean. 
    Not sure "thriving" is the word choice I would use (limping along seems more appropriate)....but I get what you mean.

    ;)

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing FO76 at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • Cybersig211Cybersig211 Member UncommonPosts: 139
    I agree with the guy who said simply being a mmorpg is enough as a sign.

    There will always be a market for a few mmorpg.  The problem is a couple of AAA mmorpgs hold that market and will do it all better than any crowd funded or indy dev made game will be able to afford to do.

    Most of these games are what i see as the last of the mmorpg golden era, GW2/FFXIV/ESO and of course WOW.  Realistically being owned by a massive game studio and having a beloved IP are going to be what keeps them going.  I think WOW/FFXIV/ESO will last a long time.  I fear GW2 will be the first of those to go.

    Signs of a failing mmorpg?  Lack of development and communication.  Communication dies first with the letting go of all non vital employees.   Im pretty sure all crowd funded mmorpgs will die, or be forced to launch as a mini game of the mmorpg, like that one game doing battle royale instead of mmorpg or the repopulation did.

    My honest advice would be to enjoy the mmorpgs that do exist, those games you might have in the past avoided give them a try with the mindset the genre is dying and fast.  Hopefully youll get enough game time out of whats left and a new mmorpg will come out by a notable studio with a popular IP and put the final nail in the coffin for many of the remaining....it will happen eventually but not for a while i think.  Eventually enough time will have passed and someone will come out and mop up the remaining mmorpg community with a solid game.

    Right now the industry is reeling from untold billions lost during the mmorpg golden age as AAA studios naively attempted to out WOW world of warcraft.  Some studio will realize if they honestly tried to make their IP into a unique mmorpg with a real budget and real quality will make enough to warrant the effort...the memory of the mmorpg graveyard will need to pass though....and the ones still living will need to fade a bit more to be viable.

    hopefully...
    ScotTuor7
  • tweedledumb99tweedledumb99 Member UncommonPosts: 290
    I agree with the guy who said simply being a mmorpg is enough as a sign.

    There will always be a market for a few mmorpg.  The problem is a couple of AAA mmorpgs hold that market and will do it all better than any crowd funded or indy dev made game will be able to afford to do.

    Most of these games are what i see as the last of the mmorpg golden era, GW2/FFXIV/ESO and of course WOW.  Realistically being owned by a massive game studio and having a beloved IP are going to be what keeps them going.  I think WOW/FFXIV/ESO will last a long time.  I fear GW2 will be the first of those to go.

    Signs of a failing mmorpg?  Lack of development and communication.  Communication dies first with the letting go of all non vital employees.   Im pretty sure all crowd funded mmorpgs will die, or be forced to launch as a mini game of the mmorpg, like that one game doing battle royale instead of mmorpg or the repopulation did.

    My honest advice would be to enjoy the mmorpgs that do exist, those games you might have in the past avoided give them a try with the mindset the genre is dying and fast.  Hopefully youll get enough game time out of whats left and a new mmorpg will come out by a notable studio with a popular IP and put the final nail in the coffin for many of the remaining....it will happen eventually but not for a while i think.  Eventually enough time will have passed and someone will come out and mop up the remaining mmorpg community with a solid game.

    Right now the industry is reeling from untold billions lost during the mmorpg golden age as AAA studios naively attempted to out WOW world of warcraft.  Some studio will realize if they honestly tried to make their IP into a unique mmorpg with a real budget and real quality will make enough to warrant the effort...the memory of the mmorpg graveyard will need to pass though....and the ones still living will need to fade a bit more to be viable.

    hopefully...

    More people are playing MMORPGs than ever before.

    WoW has 5+ million regular players, FFXIV/ESO/GW2 all probably have close to a million or more regular users (playing at least 1-2 times a month).

    Lineage 2, Maplestory 2, BDO all have solid followings as far as I know (though not necessarily in North America and Europe, can't comment on that). Runescape is pretty damn popular still.

    SWTOR is still at it.

    Heck, there's still people playing EQ2 and LOTRO and Star Trek Online and Neverwinter Online and Dungeon Fighter Online.

    Then there's the batch of crowdfunded MMORPG's brewing, and all the big ones (Star Citizen, Ashes of Creation, Pantheon, Crowfall, Chronicles of Elyria, Camelot Unchained) show no signs of stopping - although they're moving slowly.

    EVE online is still going strong too.

    How can you possibly think this genre is dying?
    Hatefull
  • hallucigenocidehallucigenocide Member RarePosts: 1,015
    a few million players spread through out the whole genre isn't exactly a sign of if doing great.
    mmolou

    I had fun once, it was terrible.

  • TEKK3NTEKK3N Member RarePosts: 1,115
    Kyleran said:
    TEKK3N said:

    One way MMOs games have been able to draw in large subscription (or patreon) figures is to offer something more or less unique to their player base which other titles don't have, be it a desirable IP, (FFXIV), sandbox style gameplay, (EVE), or an immensely popular market presence (WOW).

    The success of a pure Subscription (100%) model is tied to longevity, simple as that.
    Subscription only work if a player is Subscribed for the entire year and for multiple years providing the company with $180 per year per player.
    If a game cannot hold the player attention  for long periods of time, the company needs to find another way to get those $180.

    Enter Micro Transactions.
    Since most of recent MMOs nowadays have an average longevity of 2-3 months (yearly cycle),  they need to be able to squeeze those $180 (possibly more) in just 3 months rather than a year, and Micro Transactions are just perfect for this purpose.

    In games like EVE and WoW or most of the Old School MMOs, players used to stay subscribed for the entire year (or almost), providing a steady source of income throughout the fiscal year.
    Now even EVE and WoW are in trouble, even though for different reasons.
    EVE decided to declare war on the Carebears, and Carebears collected their stuff and quietly fucked off.
    WOW is releasing increasingly shallow content, so easy to complete that they can no longer keep up with players, which chew the new content in just few months.
    EVE raised the white flag already, WoW will be next.

    By the way, by 'failing' I mean games that they are not fulfilling their true potential.
    Neither ESO, GW2, or BDO are failing MMOs. They are just not good enough to warrant a yearly subscription, soon WoW will join them.

    So for me going from Subscription to MT is the clear sign of a 'failing' MMO, or in the case of games that never had a subscription, a MMO without ambitions or mediocre.
    Tuor7
  • kitaradkitarad Member EpicPosts: 5,955
    In my opinion the poorer this genre does the better it might be for it because it may spark innovation and curb imitation. I feel that what success does as it is now with Fortnite is a multitude of poorly thought out clones that are trying to cash in and that type of popularity isn't good for the consumer.

    When UO, Everquest, AC and DAoC were the only popular games we had better games. While we weren't commanding players in the millions it was a time where the games were developed with integrity and fun in mind and while the idea that the game must also make money it wasn't the paramount concern where the design was concerned. We have completely veered off in a solely profiteering direction and one I personally abhor. While we can still find in the midst of dozens of games some gems they are difficult to find and often suffer from a lack of population and seem to be constantly in danger of being shut down.

    We are forced to play, if we desire to continue with this hobby, games we do not entirely like. While I am reluctant to embrace them I am often faced with an even worse possibility that the remaining few will all but disappear leaving me with even worse choices. So I support the games I somewhat like in favour of those I definitely dislike.
    Tuor7Amaranthar

  • Cybersig211Cybersig211 Member UncommonPosts: 139
    .........
    .........How can you possibly think this genre is dying?

    Companies that make games are not making MMORPG games.  The ones that are have to beg their customers for funding. IF it was growing there would still be yearly releases.
    Tuor7KyleranLokeroAmaranthar
  • Tuor7Tuor7 Member UncommonPosts: 950
    Well, it seems like the money-printing fantasies that many big companies had after the success of WoW are finally fading away. So, I agree that the genre is dying. However, I think that eventually it'll come back: MMORPGs *can* be profitable, IMO, but the huge profits that some folks were scrambling for will probably not return. Ultimately, I think that's for the best.
  • TEKK3NTEKK3N Member RarePosts: 1,115
    edited December 2018
    Gorwe said:
    We must first define what "failing mmo" means. Then proceed.
    Yep, that's the main issue, when discussing this kind of topics.

    I tried to give my personal interpretation of failing MMO in a previous post, but it is subjective of course:
    "By the way, by 'failing' I mean games that they are not fulfilling their true potential.
    Neither ESO, GW2, or BDO are failing MMOs. They are just not good enough to warrant a yearly subscription, soon WoW will join them.

    So for me going from Subscription to MT is the clear sign of a 'failing' MMO, or in the case of games that never had a subscription, a MMO without ambitions or mediocre."

    GorweKyleranOctagon7711
  • flizzerflizzer Member RarePosts: 2,436
     I do know according to the "intelligentsia" on these boards LOTRO has been failing.  Of course, it has been failing for years and I keep enjoying it with each expansion/patch .   :)
    Kyleran
  • mgilbrtsnmgilbrtsn Member EpicPosts: 3,320
    I don't understand why ppl are saying just being an MMO is a sign of failing.  There are currently numerous prosperous MMOs.  FFXIV, ESO, WOW...  hell, even old mmos UO, Liniage, Everquest are still going.  It seems that good MMOs are like any other game.  If they're good and capture the imagination, they can be successful.
    mmolouNephethHatefull

    Concentrate on enjoying yourself, and not on why I shouldn't enjoy myself.

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