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CoE selling Legendary items for straight cash also unretiring Duke and Count packages

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  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Boca Raton, FLMember LegendaryPosts: 10,256
    Anyhow.. as fun as this trip down NDA lane has been...

    How about that cash shop?
    Any guesses about what will be sold next?

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • MendelMendel Marietta, GAMember EpicPosts: 2,762
    @Mendal... Yes, you are aware now that noble packages have returned. However, this was discussed beforehand under NDA. Hence the source of said prediction. 

    Beforehand?  Like I suggested above, you'd need some dates and times for the NDA discussion AND for Slapshot's discussion to prove that.  You haven't provided those.



    Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.

  • mystichazemystichaze Member UncommonPosts: 378
    edited December 2018
    Now we all know exactly how many more Noble packages are available for purchase. And with Domain Selection scheduled to be the next milestone. I think this is the last we are going to see these packages for sale.

    https://chroniclesofelyria.com/forum/topic/29699/nobility-packages-limited-rerelease
    Post edited by mystichaze on
  • LokeroLokero Member RarePosts: 1,286
    Anyhow.. as fun as this trip down NDA lane has been...

    How about that cash shop?
    Any guesses about what will be sold next?

    I'm going to suggest a festive outfit that merges the two sides:

    Mystic Slappy's Hazy Harbinger Robes of Hope and Prophecy

    Seriously though, these conversations would be a lot more interesting if they'd ever finally just get something out there for people to actually see.  It's all just tires spinning in mud until then... as amusing as it is to watch the back-and-forth.

    Hopefully, at some point, there will actually be some type of gameplay footage or something, at least.
    Kyleran
  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer ChairMember EpicPosts: 8,583
    Anyhow.. as fun as this trip down NDA lane has been...

    How about that cash shop?
    Any guesses about what will be sold next?

    Everything but a game.
    MadFrenchieSlapshot1188KyleranEponyxDamorNildencraftseekerOG_Zorvan
  • mystichazemystichaze Member UncommonPosts: 378
    Mendel said:
    @Mendal... Yes, you are aware now that noble packages have returned. However, this was discussed beforehand under NDA. Hence the source of said prediction. 

    Beforehand?  Like I suggested above, you'd need some dates and times for the NDA discussion AND for Slapshot's discussion to prove that.  You haven't provided those.



    I think the fact that a King backer called him on it and I witnessed, also having access to NDA is enough evidence to make my point. I have no intention of trying to prove anything any further, it is totally up to the readers what they want to do with it. 
  • mystichazemystichaze Member UncommonPosts: 378
    edited December 2018
    @Lokero... This! I couldn't agree more. Some point soon I hope.. :)

    Quote "Seriously though, these conversations would be a lot more interesting if they'd ever finally just get something out there for people to actually see.  It's all just tires spinning in mud until then... as amusing as it is to watch the back-and-forth.

    Hopefully, at some point, there will actually be some type of gameplay footage or something, at least."


    Post edited by mystichaze on
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Boca Raton, FLMember LegendaryPosts: 10,256
    Lokero said:
    Anyhow.. as fun as this trip down NDA lane has been...

    How about that cash shop?
    Any guesses about what will be sold next?

    I'm going to suggest a festive outfit that merges the two sides:

    Mystic Slappy's Hazy Harbinger Robes of Hope and Prophecy

    Seriously though, these conversations would be a lot more interesting if they'd ever finally just get something out there for people to actually see.  It's all just tires spinning in mud until then... as amusing as it is to watch the back-and-forth.

    Hopefully, at some point, there will actually be some type of gameplay footage or something, at least.
    Yeah... my CoE posting is waaaaay down.   Apathy is not a good sign.

    Kyleran

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • StaalBurgherStaalBurgher LondonMember UncommonPosts: 238
    Here's the thing: I don't assume the game needs to be built.  That's not a binary choice, you're creating one because you want this game to be made.  Since it's binary in your mind, there appears to be no room for the idea that not all ideas pitched turn into actual products.

    When you include that third option, you can then acknowledge that just because a practice works to garner funds, it doesn't necessarily mean it's an equitable and non-manipulative way to garner those funds.  The ends do not justify any and all means.

    If you went into this hoping it would get made and contributing your money, you had to (or should have) realize(d) that the game may not actually be attractive enough to bring to market.  Your (or anyone else) backing it does not make it a market imperative that this development is completed.  It certainly doesn't absolve SBS of any responsibility for the way they generate those funds from backers.  If you see pushback from folks about selling powerful titles and items, you should accept that the pushback is actually a direct result of extreme funding efforts by SBS and may, in and of itself, cripple long-term efforts to complete the game.
    No it is not a market imperative and I have never claimed that it is.

    It doesn't need to be equitable and their cash-shop is not more manipulative than any other. It is a game industry standard after all. I don't like cash-shops but if that is the only way to make the game then so be it. I don't think any rational person can expect them to give up at this point.
  • StaalBurgherStaalBurgher LondonMember UncommonPosts: 238
    Anyhow.. as fun as this trip down NDA lane has been...

    How about that cash shop?
    Any guesses about what will be sold next?

    Unique silk underwear. Not sure what the character models look like but I assume they have standard white loincloth things? Coloured undies for £10 a pop.
    Kyleran
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Boca Raton, FLMember LegendaryPosts: 10,256
    edited December 2018
    Anyhow.. as fun as this trip down NDA lane has been...

    How about that cash shop?
    Any guesses about what will be sold next?

    Unique silk underwear. Not sure what the character models look like but I assume they have standard white loincloth things? Coloured undies for £10 a pop.
    Well they sold ChainMail bikini's already so that's not a huge stretch...
    And Valentine's Day is not too far away.

    Post edited by Slapshot1188 on

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Nashville, TNMember LegendaryPosts: 7,781
    edited December 2018
    Here's the thing: I don't assume the game needs to be built.  That's not a binary choice, you're creating one because you want this game to be made.  Since it's binary in your mind, there appears to be no room for the idea that not all ideas pitched turn into actual products.

    When you include that third option, you can then acknowledge that just because a practice works to garner funds, it doesn't necessarily mean it's an equitable and non-manipulative way to garner those funds.  The ends do not justify any and all means.

    If you went into this hoping it would get made and contributing your money, you had to (or should have) realize(d) that the game may not actually be attractive enough to bring to market.  Your (or anyone else) backing it does not make it a market imperative that this development is completed.  It certainly doesn't absolve SBS of any responsibility for the way they generate those funds from backers.  If you see pushback from folks about selling powerful titles and items, you should accept that the pushback is actually a direct result of extreme funding efforts by SBS and may, in and of itself, cripple long-term efforts to complete the game.
    No it is not a market imperative and I have never claimed that it is.

    It doesn't need to be equitable and their cash-shop is not more manipulative than any other. It is a game industry standard after all. I don't like cash-shops but if that is the only way to make the game then so be it. I don't think any rational person can expect them to give up at this point.
    Sunk cost fallacies are dangerous things.

    Do we really believe any competent investor would continue funding a project that's already cancelled multiple parts of the project and still hasn't been able to even get a proof of concept put together as this long?
    Post edited by MadFrenchie on
    Gdemami

    image
  • StaalBurgherStaalBurgher LondonMember UncommonPosts: 238
    Sunk cost fallacies are dangerous things.

    Do we really believe any competent investor would continue funding a project that's already cancelled multiple parts of the project and still hasn't been able to even get a proof of concept put together as this long?
    That's irrelevant since SBS isn't an investor. They are not making an investment decision, neither are any of the backers. That is the whole point of a Kickstarter.
    Kyleran
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Nashville, TNMember LegendaryPosts: 7,781
    Sunk cost fallacies are dangerous things.

    Do we really believe any competent investor would continue funding a project that's already cancelled multiple parts of the project and still hasn't been able to even get a proof of concept put together as this long?
    That's irrelevant since SBS isn't an investor. They are not making an investment decision, neither are any of the backers. That is the whole point of a Kickstarter.
    Absolutely.  An investor would be competent enough at judging the merits of the project pitched to know he should keep his wallet closed on this one.  Specifically at this point.
    Gdemami

    image
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Boca Raton, FLMember LegendaryPosts: 10,256
    Sunk cost fallacies are dangerous things.

    Do we really believe any competent investor would continue funding a project that's already cancelled multiple parts of the project and still hasn't been able to even get a proof of concept put together as this long?
    That's irrelevant since SBS isn't an investor. They are not making an investment decision, neither are any of the backers. That is the whole point of a Kickstarter.
    Absolutely.  An investor would be competent enough at judging the merits of the project pitched to know he should keep his wallet closed on this one.  Specifically at this point.
    There is a reason that Caspien could not get an investor/publisher despite his promising that he would and that the burden of future funding would not fall on the players.

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Nashville, TNMember LegendaryPosts: 7,781
    Sunk cost fallacies are dangerous things.

    Do we really believe any competent investor would continue funding a project that's already cancelled multiple parts of the project and still hasn't been able to even get a proof of concept put together as this long?
    That's irrelevant since SBS isn't an investor. They are not making an investment decision, neither are any of the backers. That is the whole point of a Kickstarter.
    Absolutely.  An investor would be competent enough at judging the merits of the project pitched to know he should keep his wallet closed on this one.  Specifically at this point.
    There is a reason that Caspien could not get an investor/publisher despite his promising that he would and that the burden of future funding would not fall on the players.
    It sounds incredibly harsh, and it is, but that's because we've seen them fall behind while simultaneously cutting large swathes of promised work.

    Cutting overall product + failing to make self-selected deadlines, even after cutting out parts of the overall product = not a good bet.
    Gdemami

    image
  • MendelMendel Marietta, GAMember EpicPosts: 2,762
    My remaining question about CoE and its legacy is this.  When does not attracting an investor signal that a project should not be continued?

    Projects aren't guaranteed to come to fruition, and a large part of that has to do with financing.  When the money doesn't come forward, is it viable to shift the monetary responsibilities to crowdfunding sources?  After financial people, who make a living by investing and are pretty good at judging a project in its infancy, say that a project isn't worth them investing in it, when does a developer accept that their idea isn't good enough?

    More importantly, is there an ethical aspect to crowdfunding that is lacking?  (Along with regulations that come with traditional financial investments).  As it stands now, the crowdfunding movement seems to lack any ethical standards.  Developers allow players to donate without any tangible financial protection, leaving the process open to sketchy and near-criminal activities.  Individuals are being asking to step in for the financial backers, without the protection, rights, and perhaps the knowledge of the professionals.  They only qualification is that the individuals may have money.

    To me, it seems that developers that are rejected by the traditional financial routes need to accept that 'no means no' (to borrow a quote).  Ignoring the opinion of professional financiers and trying to continue anyway on the backs of potential customers is one of the shadiest forms of business, in my opinion.

    Will future projects follow the CoE/SBS route?



    GdemamiMadFrenchie

    Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.

  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Nashville, TNMember LegendaryPosts: 7,781
    I think that the entire system would be better served as a publisher to consumer relationship, rather than developer to consumer.


    A publisher's biggest concern is getting their investment returned, then profit.  I think publishers using crowdfunding as market research might end up actually working better than giving devs a blank canvas to paint whatever idea they can dream up to get folks to open their wallets.

    For example: the dev pitches a potentially risky idea to the pub, the pub then runs a crowdfunding campaign aimed at gauging whether the risky idea would attract potential customers.  If a threshold is met that makes the publisher comfortable (laid out at the beginning of the campaign), money is collected from the backers and the publisher uses that as part of the funding of the project (along with whatever agreed amount of investment they themselves will provide to devs), the backers can get something for early support, but the publisher still retains the directive control over the dev.

    It still satisfies the desire for gamers to have input on what ideas are taken up by development studios, while retaining the publisher relationship that assesses the viability of the project.

    If the pub pulls the plug, backers are prioritized in getting their investment back before the pub tries to recoup any costs via assets or remaining capital because the consumers weren't part of that publisher's decision to pull further support.
    Gdemami

    image
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Boca Raton, FLMember LegendaryPosts: 10,256
    I think that the entire system would be better served as a publisher to consumer relationship, rather than developer to consumer.


    A publisher's biggest concern is getting their investment returned, then profit.  I think publishers using crowdfunding as market research might end up actually working better than giving devs a blank canvas to paint whatever idea they can dream up to get folks to open their wallets.

    For example: the dev pitches a potentially risky idea to the pub, the pub then runs a crowdfunding campaign aimed at gauging whether the risky idea would attract potential customers.  If a threshold is met that makes the publisher comfortable (laid out at the beginning of the campaign), money is collected from the backers and the publisher uses that as part of the funding of the project (along with whatever agreed amount of investment they themselves will provide to devs), the backers can get something for early support, but the publisher still retains the directive control over the dev.

    It still satisfies the desire for gamers to have input on what ideas are taken up by development studios, while retaining the publisher relationship that assesses the viability of the project.

    If the pub pulls the plug, backers are prioritized in getting their investment back before the pub tries to recoup any costs via assets or remaining capital because the consumers weren't part of that publisher's decision to pull further support.
    Very interesting concept

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • LokeroLokero Member RarePosts: 1,286

    A publisher's biggest concern is getting their investment returned, then profit.
    .........

    backers are prioritized in getting their investment back before the pub tries to recoup any costs
    Lol, yeah... I think I see a flaw in the logic here :wink:
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Nashville, TNMember LegendaryPosts: 7,781
    edited December 2018
    Lokero said:

    A publisher's biggest concern is getting their investment returned, then profit.
    .........

    backers are prioritized in getting their investment back before the pub tries to recoup any costs
    Lol, yeah... I think I see a flaw in the logic here :wink:
    Haha I get your point.  That's the trade off for investors getting initial cash from backers; remember, they're getting a cash in hand picture of market willingness to purchase said product.

    Considering the backers then have zero oversight power on the project using their money, it seems fair that if the publisher unilaterally pulls the plug, backers should get their money back first if possible.
    Post edited by MadFrenchie on

    image
  • KyleranKyleran Paradise City, FLMember LegendaryPosts: 31,783
    Lokero said:

    A publisher's biggest concern is getting their investment returned, then profit.
    .........

    backers are prioritized in getting their investment back before the pub tries to recoup any costs
    Lol, yeah... I think I see a flaw in the logic here :wink:
    Haha I get your point.  That's the trade off for investors getting initial cash from backers; remember, they're getting a cash in hand picture of market willingness to purchase said product.

    Considering the backers then have zero oversight power on the project using their money, it seems fair that if the publisher unilaterally pulls the plug, backers should get their money back first if possible.
    Backers should assume their money has all been spent up front and never expect any to ever be returned regardless what happens.

    "I should run a marathon backwards. So I could see what second place look like" Royce da 5'9"

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing FO76 ATM.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • AnOldFartAnOldFart Member UncommonPosts: 268
    Kyleran said:
    Lokero said:

    A publisher's biggest concern is getting their investment returned, then profit.
    .........

    backers are prioritized in getting their investment back before the pub tries to recoup any costs
    Lol, yeah... I think I see a flaw in the logic here :wink:
    Haha I get your point.  That's the trade off for investors getting initial cash from backers; remember, they're getting a cash in hand picture of market willingness to purchase said product.

    Considering the backers then have zero oversight power on the project using their money, it seems fair that if the publisher unilaterally pulls the plug, backers should get their money back first if possible.
    Backers should assume their money has all been spent up front and never expect any to ever be returned regardless what happens.
    That's my thought, lost money until I get any goods delivered
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Boca Raton, FLMember LegendaryPosts: 10,256
    It’s OK... we should get the fascinating State Of Elyria year end update soon.  I’m sure everything is going to be roses!

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

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