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CoE selling Legendary items for straight cash also unretiring Duke and Count packages

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  • AnOldFartAnOldFart Member UncommonPosts: 441
    There is always the option of getting a large team of players and have a raving horde moving across the map Killing off all the nobles.

    Thanks to opc Scripting (if it works) then not everyone would need to. Be on and this horde can move through the map killing everyone.

    Once all the Kingdoms are destroyed, split into factions and create mini kingdoms of your own
  • GutlardGutlard Member RarePosts: 824
    edited December 2018
    I would like to try it from the 'rich' perspective once and let everyone know how it was... More money more problems? I'll get back to you.

    Gut Out!

    What, me worry?

  • MendelMendel Member EpicPosts: 3,176
    AnOldFart said:
    There is always the option of getting a large team of players and have a raving horde moving across the map Killing off all the nobles.

    Thanks to opc Scripting (if it works) then not everyone would need to. Be on and this horde can move through the map killing everyone.

    Once all the Kingdoms are destroyed, split into factions and create mini kingdoms of your own
    I think that will be attempted; it's a reasonable strategy for a long-standing guild.  Once this hoard knock the dollar nobles off their perch, then we'll see exactly how committed to taking titles and ranks (and advantages, er, build privileges) away from the whales and letting others take them in-game.  I'm still skeptical about this, but if they do, it will create the most amusing outbursts we will have seen by then.

    But, like you point out, there's a lot still to be proven that it actually works in-game.



    Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.

  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 10,940
    The only people taking Kingdoms from Nobles will be other Kingdoms.
    Gdemami

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

    My ignore list finally has one occupant after 12 years. I am the strongest supporter of free speech on here, but free speech does not mean forced listening. Have fun my friend. Hope you find a new stalking target.

  • rodarinrodarin Member RarePosts: 2,443
    I remember being banned a few times criticizing these guys and htis project when it first came out. Some one here owes be 9 or 14 days....
    Iselin
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 12,762
    AnOldFart said:
    There is always the option of getting a large team of players and have a raving horde moving across the map Killing off all the nobles.

    Thanks to opc Scripting (if it works) then not everyone would need to. Be on and this horde can move through the map killing everyone.

    Once all the Kingdoms are destroyed, split into factions and create mini kingdoms of your own
    That excuse is getting kind of old isn't it? I mean... if this thing ever launches they will need cash from whales to keep it going. Who in their right mind would continue to spend big money on this post-launch if the advantage that gets you can be so easily lost?

    That party line is just there in order to deflect P2W arguments but do you really think Caspian will want to annoy his $10 K customers?
    anemoInteritus
    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 33,556
    Kyleran said:
    @StaalBurgher In addition to what has been said above, what makes this different is the extent to which “nobles” can affect your gameplay.  They can literally make laws and determine punishments of other players.  You will be paying them taxes and pretty much exist at their pleasure. Then to top it off, even if you find a great noble to swear to,  you may still have your land and life taken because some other noble paid $60,000 (let’s call him GhettoMaster) decided to be a dick. At each opportunity (name selection, plague, map vote) these nobles (some) have proven to resort to trolling, griefing, and asshattery.  Closing the store at launch just solidifies the advantages they bought and makes it difficult for a non-noble to compete.
    I do wish they had thought to include a neutral NPC kingdom (like EVEs empire space) players could be part of if they didn't feel like being part of the "dynasty safety dance" or whatever called.


    To some extent that would be worse unless it was far more powerful than the average.  After all all things being equal the first target would be the NPC King.   Unless you mean a Kingdom that could not be attacked by other Kingdoms.  That would be interesting but probably end up with the majority of non-noble players.

    I have always thought that they should have one “clean” server at launch with no ore-purchased advantages.  Of course that’s a no go because most people would choose to start there instead of as a serf to a guy like GhettoMaster.
    I like the last idea, but if they ever considered it I suspect it would be about a year or so post launch.

    EVEs empire space works well as a base to start but resource advantages in null sec encourage players to strike out on their own, so I think an NPC kingdom would work.

    In EVE many a corp or alliance have taken beatings and retreated to empire to regroup and rebuild their forces before jumping back into the fray.

    Will be difficult to raise resources to challenge the existing nobles if one must pledge fealty just to play the game

    MadFrenchieAnOldFart

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

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  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 10,940
    Wait until the Exposition Store opens and people can go nuts buying resources, items, etc...

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

    My ignore list finally has one occupant after 12 years. I am the strongest supporter of free speech on here, but free speech does not mean forced listening. Have fun my friend. Hope you find a new stalking target.

  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 19,503
    Viper482 said:
    I actually don't mind at all that the game is funding itself this way. I made a post awhile back that had something similar. 

    The truth is that life isn't fair, it never was, it never will be, people get born into rich families and people get born into poor families. People are born healthy and people are not. This game will simulate that, I actually like the way it is going. 

    Not everyone is supposed to be a hero in a game, isn't that what people want? Everyone is different. This game looks to be innovative and interesting. I'll definitely keep my eye on it. 

    If someone wants to pay 5k to be amazing in this game then I'm all for it. P2W has never actually offended me, perhaps it is because I can afford it if i wanted to or perhaps I just think there are a million other games to play, who cares about P2W. I look at it like a feature, if i don't like it, i don't play it. 

    Also, don't make fun of the way people spend their money on what you think is stupid. I don't look at a person who buys a 60k rolex as being stupid  . . . I mean i'd never do it, even if i was a billionaire, but at the same time, if someone can afford a 60k Rolex, you got to give them credit . . . unless of course they didn't earn it. 

    Cryomatrix
    If you were giving a lecture about real life this would be fine with me.....but this is a farking game dude. Saying that, your post is beyond absurd. Most people play games to escape reality. And in 99.9% of games you ARE the hero, so wtf is this "everyone is not supposed to be the hero in games" crap?? 

    The game world should not exist as a rich person's playground, that is what real life is for. In a game they should start at zero just like everyone else. And don't be the asshat that equivocates that statement with real life....I am talking about games.
    I think this will come down to sides on whale driven gaming. CoE is whale driven gaming. Path of Exile is whale driven gaming. P2W is a distraction because regardless it's the same whales spending big money to drive design and development. It doesn't matter to studios or the industry if something is "P2W" or not. It matters that they both tap into whales as their backbone.
    take back the hobby: https://www.reddit.com/r/patientgamers/

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    ༼ つ ◕◕ ༽つ

  • AnOldFartAnOldFart Member UncommonPosts: 441
    Iselin said:
    AnOldFart said:
    There is always the option of getting a large team of players and have a raving horde moving across the map Killing off all the nobles.

    Thanks to opc Scripting (if it works) then not everyone would need to. Be on and this horde can move through the map killing everyone.

    Once all the Kingdoms are destroyed, split into factions and create mini kingdoms of your own
    That excuse is getting kind of old isn't it? I mean... if this thing ever launches they will need cash from whales to keep it going. Who in their right mind would continue to spend big money on this post-launch if the advantage that gets you can be so easily lost?

    That party line is just there in order to deflect P2W arguments but do you really think Caspian will want to annoy his $10 K customers?
    You misunderstand, I am not saying this as an excuse for ptw. I am saying I would love to see it. 
  • TorrskTorrsk Member UncommonPosts: 201
    AnOldFart said:
    Iselin said:
    AnOldFart said:
    There is always the option of getting a large team of players and have a raving horde moving across the map Killing off all the nobles.

    Thanks to opc Scripting (if it works) then not everyone would need to. Be on and this horde can move through the map killing everyone.

    Once all the Kingdoms are destroyed, split into factions and create mini kingdoms of your own
    That excuse is getting kind of old isn't it? I mean... if this thing ever launches they will need cash from whales to keep it going. Who in their right mind would continue to spend big money on this post-launch if the advantage that gets you can be so easily lost?

    That party line is just there in order to deflect P2W arguments but do you really think Caspian will want to annoy his $10 K customers?
    You misunderstand, I am not saying this as an excuse for ptw. I am saying I would love to see it. 
    That may happen a few times. But really the world size would work against any group doing that. It reminds me of Rust in someways. I played it when the maps were pretty tiny, so finding people/bases was easy. I went back to it after it left EA. To see the maps were massive. Too much running around to find anyone to smash to even bother with it much. Unless I happen to only go on the servers with massive maps.

    Something most backers seem to forget as well. So many claim they just easily take over some kingdom or duchy etc. Not knowing moving around from county to county just takes too much time to bother. 
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 12,762
    AnOldFart said:
    Iselin said:
    AnOldFart said:
    There is always the option of getting a large team of players and have a raving horde moving across the map Killing off all the nobles.

    Thanks to opc Scripting (if it works) then not everyone would need to. Be on and this horde can move through the map killing everyone.

    Once all the Kingdoms are destroyed, split into factions and create mini kingdoms of your own
    That excuse is getting kind of old isn't it? I mean... if this thing ever launches they will need cash from whales to keep it going. Who in their right mind would continue to spend big money on this post-launch if the advantage that gets you can be so easily lost?

    That party line is just there in order to deflect P2W arguments but do you really think Caspian will want to annoy his $10 K customers?
    You misunderstand, I am not saying this as an excuse for ptw. I am saying I would love to see it. 
    My bad I did misread your intent.
    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED
  • LokeroLokero Member RarePosts: 1,488
    Torrsk said:
    AnOldFart said:
    Iselin said:
    AnOldFart said:
    There is always the option of getting a large team of players and have a raving horde moving across the map Killing off all the nobles.

    Thanks to opc Scripting (if it works) then not everyone would need to. Be on and this horde can move through the map killing everyone.

    Once all the Kingdoms are destroyed, split into factions and create mini kingdoms of your own
    That excuse is getting kind of old isn't it? I mean... if this thing ever launches they will need cash from whales to keep it going. Who in their right mind would continue to spend big money on this post-launch if the advantage that gets you can be so easily lost?

    That party line is just there in order to deflect P2W arguments but do you really think Caspian will want to annoy his $10 K customers?
    You misunderstand, I am not saying this as an excuse for ptw. I am saying I would love to see it. 
    That may happen a few times. But really the world size would work against any group doing that. It reminds me of Rust in someways. I played it when the maps were pretty tiny, so finding people/bases was easy. I went back to it after it left EA. To see the maps were massive. Too much running around to find anyone to smash to even bother with it much. Unless I happen to only go on the servers with massive maps.

    Something most backers seem to forget as well. So many claim they just easily take over some kingdom or duchy etc. Not knowing moving around from county to county just takes too much time to bother. 
    I don't know much about the world size, but I can't see the studio allowing their money-trees to get chopped down that easily.
    I imagine after that happened a time or two, and all the big-wallets nerd-raged hard enough, you'd start seeing some type of fortified defenses(overpowered NPC guards, etc.) in those wealthy states.  Or, more likely, the ability to purchase extra defenses :wink:

    That's one of the potential consequences of putting all of the control in the hands of the whales.  You are setting yourself up for failure if you don't keep them happy.

    We've already seen how fickle and in-flux the project is in an effort to pull in more money.  They are just making things up as they go.
    Gdemami
  • AnOldFartAnOldFart Member UncommonPosts: 441
    Lokero said:
    Torrsk said:
    AnOldFart said:
    Iselin said:
    AnOldFart said:
    There is always the option of getting a large team of players and have a raving horde moving across the map Killing off all the nobles.

    Thanks to opc Scripting (if it works) then not everyone would need to. Be on and this horde can move through the map killing everyone.

    Once all the Kingdoms are destroyed, split into factions and create mini kingdoms of your own
    That excuse is getting kind of old isn't it? I mean... if this thing ever launches they will need cash from whales to keep it going. Who in their right mind would continue to spend big money on this post-launch if the advantage that gets you can be so easily lost?

    That party line is just there in order to deflect P2W arguments but do you really think Caspian will want to annoy his $10 K customers?
    You misunderstand, I am not saying this as an excuse for ptw. I am saying I would love to see it. 
    That may happen a few times. But really the world size would work against any group doing that. It reminds me of Rust in someways. I played it when the maps were pretty tiny, so finding people/bases was easy. I went back to it after it left EA. To see the maps were massive. Too much running around to find anyone to smash to even bother with it much. Unless I happen to only go on the servers with massive maps.

    Something most backers seem to forget as well. So many claim they just easily take over some kingdom or duchy etc. Not knowing moving around from county to county just takes too much time to bother. 
    I don't know much about the world size, but I can't see the studio allowing their money-trees to get chopped down that easily.
    I imagine after that happened a time or two, and all the big-wallets nerd-raged hard enough, you'd start seeing some type of fortified defenses(overpowered NPC guards, etc.) in those wealthy states.  Or, more likely, the ability to purchase extra defenses :wink:

    That's one of the potential consequences of putting all of the control in the hands of the whales.  You are setting yourself up for failure if you don't keep them happy.

    We've already seen how fickle and in-flux the project is in an effort to pull in more money.  They are just making things up as they go.
    In fairness, we have all been warned not to expect to keep any titles we have past 1 life. 

    I mean I will be losing mine within the first three months when I give it up to an election, so I won't be having mine taken.

    But the point is, if the studio has already warned people, it's my hope that if/when the shit hits the fan SBS just say "you were warned."

    Iselin said:
    AnOldFart said:
    Iselin said:
    AnOldFart said:
    There is always the option of getting a large team of players and have a raving horde moving across the map Killing off all the nobles.

    Thanks to opc Scripting (if it works) then not everyone would need to. Be on and this horde can move through the map killing everyone.

    Once all the Kingdoms are destroyed, split into factions and create mini kingdoms of your own
    That excuse is getting kind of old isn't it? I mean... if this thing ever launches they will need cash from whales to keep it going. Who in their right mind would continue to spend big money on this post-launch if the advantage that gets you can be so easily lost?

    That party line is just there in order to deflect P2W arguments but do you really think Caspian will want to annoy his $10 K customers?
    You misunderstand, I am not saying this as an excuse for ptw. I am saying I would love to see it. 
    My bad I did misread your intent.
    Easy to do on forums especcial when it's ambiguously written, I reread it after that post and realised I could have made the intent clearer 
  • StaalBurgherStaalBurgher Member UncommonPosts: 263
    edited December 2018
    @StaalBurgher In addition to what has been said above, what makes this different is the extent to which “nobles” can affect your gameplay.  They can literally make laws and determine punishments of other players.  You will be paying them taxes and pretty much exist at their pleasure. Then to top it off, even if you find a great noble to swear to,  you may still have your land and life taken because some other noble paid $60,000 (let’s call him GhettoMaster) decided to be a dick. At each opportunity (name selection, plague, map vote) these nobles (some) have proven to resort to trolling, griefing, and asshattery.  Closing the store at launch just solidifies the advantages they bought and makes it difficult for a non-noble to compete.
    I am not sure 1 player will have that much tyrannical control. There will be a great amount of consensus building going on between kings and their subjects, otherwise people will leave for better areas right? The need for consensus building by kings is well attested in real history and in virtually every other guild-based MMO.

    A little bit of tyranny will be needed to control asshattery. One of the reason players get away with griefing is because there are only very weak retributive actions other can take and it usually revolves around PvPing the transgressors... which is often exactly what they want in the first place!

    Another aspect of these competitive sandbox games that is highly damaging to player retention is that losing in PvP = more grind to replace gear. If the game play can revolve around simply managing OPCs/NPCs doing the actual grind you can remove this drawback. Although I suppose you run into technical worries again due to the need to script all this persistent in-game behaviour.

    Regardless, any such problems can be solved via game design. I cannot believe it is an unavoidable, inherent function of there being "nobles".
    Kyleran
  • StaalBurgherStaalBurgher Member UncommonPosts: 263
    MadFrenchie said:

    Cool story.  None of it changes that most folks aren't cool with people paying their way there instead of playing their way there.  Nice try, though.
    Well, that isn't the point of yours I was addressing was it. Nice try, though.
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 10,940
    edited December 2018
    @StaalBurgher In addition to what has been said above, what makes this different is the extent to which “nobles” can affect your gameplay.  They can literally make laws and determine punishments of other players.  You will be paying them taxes and pretty much exist at their pleasure. Then to top it off, even if you find a great noble to swear to,  you may still have your land and life taken because some other noble paid $60,000 (let’s call him GhettoMaster) decided to be a dick. At each opportunity (name selection, plague, map vote) these nobles (some) have proven to resort to trolling, griefing, and asshattery.  Closing the store at launch just solidifies the advantages they bought and makes it difficult for a non-noble to compete.
    I am not sure 1 player will have that much tyrannical control. There will be a great amount of consensus building going on between kings and their subjects, otherwise people will leave for better areas right? The need for consensus building by kings is well attested in real history and in virtually every other guild-based MMO.

    A little bit of tyranny will be needed to control asshattery. One of the reason players get away with griefing is because there are only very weak retributive actions other can take and it usually revolves around PvPing the transgressors... which is often exactly what they want in the first place!

    Another aspect of these competitive sandbox games that is highly damaging to player retention is that losing in PvP = more grind to replace gear. If the game play can revolve around simply managing OPCs/NPCs doing the actual grind you can remove this drawback. Although I suppose you run into technical worries again due to the need to script all this persistent in-game behaviour.

    Regardless, any such problems can be solved via game design. I cannot believe it is an unavoidable, inherent function of there being "nobles".
    You skipped some very important parts of my post.  So here is one fundamental issue (as an example) of an inherent issue with there being nobles:

    I start as a crafter who works for weeks to save up enough money to purchase a small shop. I put all I have into it.  My King is the greatest and most selfless example of honest stewardship.  All is well.  Then one day, for no reason other than to be an asshat, the Dutchy next door decides  they like this one and they (using massive purchased advantages) come and destroy our town. Maybe they burn it down, maybe the Duke GhettoMaster simply decides that taxes are now 75% 

    Sure, I can move... to where?  And I will have lost all I own and worked for over the last few weeks.  Why?  Simply because the “Noble” next door spent 10 times the cash that mine did. I mean, we literally are allowing people to purchase multiple kingdoms and Dutchies and Counties.  There is no cap on the amount of EP you can buy with real cash to then purchase resources (in a game that says resources are 
     finite), ships, armor, weapons, technology upgrades, defenses, rare patterns,  heck they even let you spend more on the rare stuff all the way to “legendary” quality.   And don’t forget that anything bought in the shop before EP comes as a token to be used after launch...

    I guess the key is researching to find which Kingdom (and all nobles) have the deepest pockets and planning to join them.  What a fun concept...

    You talk about real history.  OK... how fun was it to historically have been a serf or non-noble? 

    Gdemami

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

    My ignore list finally has one occupant after 12 years. I am the strongest supporter of free speech on here, but free speech does not mean forced listening. Have fun my friend. Hope you find a new stalking target.

  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,483
    edited December 2018
    MadFrenchie said:

    Cool story.  None of it changes that most folks aren't cool with people paying their way there instead of playing their way there.  Nice try, though.
    Well, that isn't the point of yours I was addressing was it. Nice try, though.
    That was the point I made.  So you offered up a red herring/strawman, then?
    Gdemami

    image
  • StaalBurgherStaalBurgher Member UncommonPosts: 263
    edited December 2018
    You skipped some very important parts of my post.  So here is one fundamental issue (as an example) of an inherent issue with there being nobles:

    I start as a crafter who works for weeks to save up enough money to purchase a small shop. I put all I have into it.  My King is the greatest and most selfless example of honest stewardship.  All is well.  Then one day, for no reason other than to be an asshat, the Dutchy next door decides  they like this one and they (using massive purchased advantages) come and destroy our town. Maybe they burn it down, maybe the Duke GhettoMaster simply decides that taxes are now 75% 

    Sure, I can move... to where?  And I will have lost all I own and worked for over the last few weeks.  Why?  Simply because the “Noble” next door spent 10 times the cash that mine did. I mean, we literally are allowing people to purchase multiple kingdoms and Dutchies and Counties.  There is no cap on the amount of EP you can buy with real cash to then purchase resources (in a game that says resources are 
     finite), ships, armor, weapons, technology upgrades, defenses, rare patterns,  heck they even let you spend more on the rare stuff all the way to “legendary” quality.   And don’t forget that anything bought in the shop before EP comes as a token to be used after launch...

    I guess the key is researching to find which Kingdom (and all nobles) have the deepest pockets and planning to join them.  What a fun concept...

    You talk about real history.  OK... how fun was it to historically have been a serf or non-noble? 

    I don't see how that is different from any other competitive sandbox where people invest a lot of time into building a settlement etc and then another guild sieges and takes it away.

    It won't be anything like being a historical peasant. If the game play mechanics are fun people will enjoy it. It is unrelated to whether there is someone else playing as a noble.

    I only mentioned real history to say it is thematically correct, nothing else. The more important part of my statement is that all competitive sandboxes work by guild leaders building consensus. There is no 1 tyrant ruling over all taking their stuff.

    Look, I am not a fan of cash-shop etc but if it is a choice between selling advantage (whether it lasts or not) and no game, I would take the former. And the actual amount of long term advantage to be had is highly speculative.

    The criticism should focus solely on cash shop goods then, not the actual purchasing of titles because simply holding a title at the start of the game won't do much. The real concern I see has to do with stockpiling goods/EP or however it works. Fair enough, but that is irrelevant to who is noble/peasant and this claim that you can't enjoy the game if you aren't noble.
    mystichaze
  • StaalBurgherStaalBurgher Member UncommonPosts: 263
    That was the point I made.  So you offered up a red herring/strawman, then?
    I can only reply to what you type, not what you now pretend to have meant.
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,483
    That was the point I made.  So you offered up a red herring/strawman, then?
    I can only reply to what you type, not what you now pretend to have meant.
    Lol, my point was clear.  Your ignoring it to try and refute a point you find easier to refute means nothing.
    Gdemami

    image
  • CryomatrixCryomatrix Member EpicPosts: 2,602
    Viper482 said:

    If you were giving a lecture about real life this would be fine with me.....but this is a farking game dude. Saying that, your post is beyond absurd. Most people play games to escape reality. And in 99.9% of games you ARE the hero, so wtf is this "everyone is not supposed to be the hero in games" crap?? 

    The game world should not exist as a rich person's playground, that is what real life is for. In a game they should start at zero just like everyone else. And don't be the asshat that equivocates that statement with real life....I am talking about games.
    People who like to roleplay have complained that not everyone wants to be a hero in an mmorpg. 

    "in a game they should start at zero like everyone else"

    Is not true, i start a game when i have a wife and kid and work 60-80 hours a week and some person who lives in their mom's basement starts the same game with no job and no responsibility. They have a wealth of time and a dearth of money. I have a dearth of time but I have wealth. 

    In reference to talking about games . . . not all games are the same. Someone mentioned monopoly earlier, but monopoly isn't an equal game to compare like an MMO. Monopoly has essentially equal time spent (in terms of how the turns are). So if you everyone has the same time to sink into the game then money shouldn't be a factor. In my mind there is a time = money continuum. 

    My main point is that, I'm okay with P2W, I'm okay with rich people putting in 20k in a game if they feel like it. At the end of the day,  the rich person basically is trading money to make up time. The person who sinks thousands of hours to achieve something is trading time for money (in opportunity cost). To me the equation is the same. I see a person who achieved all super max gear by playing 12 hours a day for 6 months as the same as a person who put 20k towards it in a week. They both sacrificed for it.   

    But I do truly realize the equation is the same to me because I can afford to be a whale if I wanted to be. I could see how it would be insulting to those that don't have that choice. 
    mystichaze
    Catch me streaming at twitch.tv/cryomatrix
    You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations. 
  • CryomatrixCryomatrix Member EpicPosts: 2,602
    Iselin said:

    Cryomatrix
    So when you were a kid and played monopoly with the rich kid down the block you considered it innovative and interesting if he started the game with hotels on Boardwalk and Park Place?

    Real life social stratification has no place in any game I want to play. Where you see innovation and something interesting I see a boring ass shit show.


    Monopoly isn't equivalent to an MMO. 

    Monopoly has a time factor that equalizes everyone. You get one dice roll per turn. Since, the time factor is equal, the money factor should also be equal. Hence, no it would not be appropriate for a rich kid to start with hotels on boardwalk and park place. 

    Now if you said, let's play monopoly with a few new rules. Player 1 rolls the dice 3x per turn and player 2 rolls once per turn, but player 2 starts off with hotels on boardwalk . . . that would be somewhat feasible as there is a trade off. 

    My point, which most won't agree with, is based on my belief that:

    time = money. 

    You sacrifice money for time and you sacrifice time for money. 

    When you work, you are sacrificing time for money. 
    When you play, you are sacrificing money for time. 

    Hence, why the smart thing to do is to get passive income where you get money without sacrificing time except in the beginning stages. 

    Kyleran
    Catch me streaming at twitch.tv/cryomatrix
    You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations. 
  • CryomatrixCryomatrix Member EpicPosts: 2,602
    @StaalBurgher In addition to what has been said above, what makes this different is the extent to which “nobles” can affect your gameplay.  They can literally make laws and determine punishments of other players.  You will be paying them taxes and pretty much exist at their pleasure. Then to top it off, even if you find a great noble to swear to,  you may still have your land and life taken because some other noble paid $60,000 (let’s call him GhettoMaster) decided to be a dick. At each opportunity (name selection, plague, map vote) these nobles (some) have proven to resort to trolling, griefing, and asshattery.  Closing the store at launch just solidifies the advantages they bought and makes it difficult for a non-noble to compete.
    I'd actually at least try the experience to see what it is like. That to me is innovative even if there is going to be blatant abuse. It would be interesting to see it work. Is it so different than a guild leader and the rest of the guild?
    StaalBurgher
    Catch me streaming at twitch.tv/cryomatrix
    You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations. 
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,483
    edited December 2018
    @StaalBurgher In addition to what has been said above, what makes this different is the extent to which “nobles” can affect your gameplay.  They can literally make laws and determine punishments of other players.  You will be paying them taxes and pretty much exist at their pleasure. Then to top it off, even if you find a great noble to swear to,  you may still have your land and life taken because some other noble paid $60,000 (let’s call him GhettoMaster) decided to be a dick. At each opportunity (name selection, plague, map vote) these nobles (some) have proven to resort to trolling, griefing, and asshattery.  Closing the store at launch just solidifies the advantages they bought and makes it difficult for a non-noble to compete.
    I'd actually at least try the experience to see what it is like. That to me is innovative even if there is going to be blatant abuse. It would be interesting to see it work. Is it so different than a guild leader and the rest of the guild?
    Nothing the guild leader has in-game, including his position, came from his personal resources outside the game.

    I think that's a pretty substantial difference and is also Iselin's point with the Monopoly example.
    Gdemami

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