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MxO the best thing to happen to MMO's ?

RazorbackRazorback Member Posts: 5,253

Well as most of you know by now MxO last week downsized the server count from 9 to 3, representing a 60%+ downsize in the operation overall. Citing low server populations and thus lack of player interactvity and no doubt (but not mentioned) cost cutting, MxO must almost set new records for a rapid demise. It has shrunk faster than your pride in a cold swimming pool and it doesnt look like recovering nearly as fast.

http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/07/29/news_6130058.html?tag=lastword_pc_headline

I actually think this is the best thing that has happened to the industry in some time. Monolith and Warner were convinced that they could make a pile of unsubstantiated and unfullfilable promises about MxO then toss any old bone to the market and we would leap on it in a feeding frenzy.

The really good news from this is that unlike music buyers the MMO gamers have shown themselves to be discerning customers who will not just jump at something because we are told to believe its cool, hip and we NEED to be in it.

Hopefully this will make many other projects at their various stages of development take a hard look at themselves and wonder if they actually need to improve what they are doing in order to make a commercially viable product and survive long term. If just one half baked MMO in development tanks from this it will do the whole industry a favour.

It has very much renewed my faith in the gaming community because anyone could see MxO was a very low quality product being transported by the hyped up name of the movies. This on the back of the amount of people sucked in to buying Mourning, had me wondering about where this industry was heading. Its good to see that unlike music.... style will not win out over substance every time.image

 

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"MMOs, for people that like think chatting is like a skill or something, rotflol"
http://purepwnage.com
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"Far away across the field, the tolling of the iron bell, calls the faithful to their knees. To hear the softly spoken magic spell" Pink Floyd-Dark Side of the Moon

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Comments

  • CopelandCopeland Member Posts: 1,955

    Well they only sold 40k games to begin with so its not much of a fall. They didn't fool very many. They took a bath on the game which is sad considering the name alone could have sold 250k if they had put any effort into the game at all. I even saw Sygmas posting about how bad the game turned out to be and that says something.

  • RazorbackRazorback Member Posts: 5,253



    Originally posted by Copeland

    They didn't fool very many. They took a bath on the game which is sad considering the name alone could have sold 250k if they had put any effort into the game at all.



    Yup thats the real point isnt it...

    They assumed that the majority of us are complete idiots... and to our credit we disapointed them image

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    "MMOs, for people that like think chatting is like a skill or something, rotflol"
    http://purepwnage.com
    image
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    "Far away across the field, the tolling of the iron bell, calls the faithful to their knees. To hear the softly spoken magic spell" Pink Floyd-Dark Side of the Moon

  • LanmoragonLanmoragon Member Posts: 994

    Yep, I hope it does show the MMO industry something.

    I go to work in order to see the same office building over and over, I dont need to play MxO to do that.::::28::

  • brostynbrostyn Member Posts: 3,092
    Well, personally, I think the timing was bad. I wouldn't credit MMO players as not being sheep. EQ2 and WoW released close to the same time. After people bought these two piles they may have wisened up, or like typical sheep are enjoying these games.
  • daveospicedaveospice Member UncommonPosts: 357
    it's already sort of too late.  Thousands of people bought the box, and thousands of playersp robably at least payed for one month...  They made a profit, as long as they cut their losses at the right time.  They're sure to do it again.
  • ste2000ste2000 Member EpicPosts: 6,194



    Originally posted by Razorback
    Yup thats the real point isnt it...
    They assumed that the majority of us are complete idiots... and to our credit we disapointed them image



    Yep, I agree image
    I am also concerned about DDO and LoTRO
    I think Turbine did bite more than it could chew..........

  • RazorbackRazorback Member Posts: 5,253



    Originally posted by daveospice
    it's already sort of too late.  Thousands of people bought the box, and thousands of playersp robably at least payed for one month...  They made a profit, as long as they cut their losses at the right time.  They're sure to do it again.


    Interestingly all the mail says they didnt make money on the launch sales. Like Copeland pointed out best estimates say around 40K boxes were sold initially... even on those numbers it would go something like this...

    40K x $50 = $2 million .... thats nothing like enough to cover everything that would have gone into development, launch and supporting it for the first 3 months. I havnt seen how much they sold it to SOE for but logic tells you they wouldnt have sold it if overall they were turning a profit. So my guess would be that they did it to stop the bleeding.

    In any case.... companies like Monolith and Warner dont go into things to break even or make small losses. Anything less than a healthy profit is considered a failure and after having their fingers burned they will definately take more care with the next attempt at an MMO.... that can only be a good thing.

    +-+-+-+-+-+
    "MMOs, for people that like think chatting is like a skill or something, rotflol"
    http://purepwnage.com
    image
    -+-+-+-+-+-+
    "Far away across the field, the tolling of the iron bell, calls the faithful to their knees. To hear the softly spoken magic spell" Pink Floyd-Dark Side of the Moon

  • scaramooshscaramoosh Member Posts: 3,424
    SOE brought it but i still don't see any drastic changes to the game

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    Don't click here...no2

  • ste2000ste2000 Member EpicPosts: 6,194



    Originally posted by scaramoosh
    SOE brought it but i still don't see any drastic changes to the game


    Do you mean that they didn't started nerfing yet?
    Give them some time, SoE needs a bit of time to completely fuck a game. image

  • ElnatorElnator Member Posts: 6,077


    Originally posted by ste2000
    Originally posted by scaramoosh SOE brought it but i still don't see any drastic changes to the gameDo you mean that they didn't started nerfing yet?Give them some time, SoE needs a bit of time to completely fuck a game. image

    LOL
    I find it hillarious that people bash SOE.
    Name one game that SOE has produced that hasn't been profitable and successful.


    They bought MxO to get the licence to the DC engine. I suspect they'll either let it die or monkey with it a bit. But I seriously doubt they have any real intention to do much with the game.

    Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
    Sig image Pending
    Still in: A couple Betas

  • AnofalyeAnofalye Member, Newbie CommonPosts: 7,433

    SoE will improve MxO, no doubts.

     

    STE is just a Verant fan, dont mind him!

    - "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren

  • SendenSenden Member UncommonPosts: 602


    Originally posted by ste2000
    Originally posted by Razorback
    Yup thats the real point isnt it...
    They assumed that the majority of us are complete idiots... and to our credit we disapointed them imageYep, I agree imageI am also concerned about DDO and LoTROI think Turbine did bite more than it could chew..........

    Yeah, LOTR is going to do just as well as the matrix i reckon, still fingers crossed turbine do a good job with it but very unlikely.
  • DinionDinion Member Posts: 879


    Originally posted by Elnator
    Originally posted by ste2000
    Originally posted by scaramoosh SOE brought it but i still don't see any drastic changes to the gameDo you mean that they didn't started nerfing yet?Give them some time, SoE needs a bit of time to completely fuck a game. image

    LOL
    I find it hillarious that people bash SOE.
    Name one game that SOE has produced that hasn't been profitable and successful.


    They bought MxO to get the licence to the DC engine. I suspect they'll either let it die or monkey with it a bit. But I seriously doubt they have any real intention to do much with the game.


    People bash them because they have had more than their fair share of bad(more likely VERY bad) experiences with SOE. I find it hillarious that you have to jump in and defend SOE everytime, just let people vent. Profit and success are exactly the reasons why we can't expect SOE to do any better than they have with their other games.

    EDIT: WE as in those of us who don't expect SOE to do any better, so don't go all off on who WE is.

    ----------------------------------
    MMOs Retired From: Earth and Beyond, Project Entropia, There, A Tale in the Desert, Star Wars Galaxies, World of Warcraft, Eve Online, City of Heroes/Villains.

    MMOs Currently (worth) Playing: None.

    MMO hopefuls: Age of Conan.

  • ste2000ste2000 Member EpicPosts: 6,194



    Originally posted by Elnator




    Originally posted by ste2000


    Originally posted by scaramoosh SOE brought it but i still don't see any drastic changes to the game
    Do you mean that they didn't started nerfing yet?Give them some time, SoE needs a bit of time to completely fuck a game. image


    LOL
    I find it hillarious that people bash SOE.
    Name one game that SOE has produced that hasn't been profitable and successful.



    Elnator, you should know that profitable doesn't necessary mean succesful image
    WOW is a success
    EQ2 is just profitable But a flop, compared to Blizzard game)
    But none of them are awesome games.

    Also quality is not measured by success or number of copies sold.
    Britney Spear might be succesful, but her music is dreadful.

    Lastly I don't bash only SOE, Turbine are on my radar as well, it all depends if they fuck up DDO, which is very likely.
    I generally bash companies that produce average games, in particular those companies that started well (EQ and AC) but lost the focus along the way (mainly due to excess of money in their pocket).

  • VolkmarVolkmar Member UncommonPosts: 2,501

    Rumors have been circulating that SoE bought MxO for the added DC comics license.

    Well, we will see i suppose.

    Anyhow i find it strange of this failure. Not that the game didn't deserved it from all i heard, but if we look at that other Matrix game, "Enter the Matrix"? Sold like millions in the first days and it was merely average action game at best. Granted it was also cashing on all the advertisement for the second movie while MxO had nothing of that genre.

    But then that was a console title in addition to pc and we know how the two markets differs substantially (with the consoles being the lion in this case).

    So in the end, the failure of MxO and Mourning should teach a lesson to the Devs that maybe it was ok to release half finished piece of software in the 1998, but today not anymore. Let's hope so.

    As for DDO and LOTR... i can't but agree. Turbine, never a big company, now must care for AC and AC2(that both got expansions, so people actively working on them) PLUS developing DDO , that should be a VERY content driven game, AND LOtR. What the heck?? how many devs they have, hundreds?

    "If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day, if you teach him how to fish, you feed him for a lifetime"



  • MunkiMunki Member CommonPosts: 2,128

    Well I think this does prove a point.. A license for a game isnt a garuntee. The MMORPG genre is still young, but its showing that we are really picky about our games. And if forums show us anything, people get very attached to these games and take pride in them. Its kinda different than most genres...
    In more genres, your opinoin is based by what type of game you play.
    Oh I play FPS.. I play RTS... Counterstrike or Battlefield.. they still get the same opinions.. they are the harcore twitch guys.
    Where as in MMORPGS.. I play EQ and I play WoW, or I play Shadowbane.. For anybody who knows what they are talking about, you will get very different opinions about these people.
    In MMORPGS, people also tend to take a great deal of pride in their game.. and often bash others.. Much like people who play RTS do to FPS, or FPS say about puzzle games..


    Originally posted by brostyn
    Well, personally, I think the timing was bad. I wouldn't credit MMO players as not being sheep. EQ2 and WoW released close to the same time. After people bought these two piles they may have wisened up, or like typical sheep are enjoying these games.

    This person being a GREAT example of sombody who takes pride in their game and bashes others.
    People take a lot of pride in the MMORPG they play. And it was embarassing to say "I play MxO", it was just a bad game hoping to bank on the fact that it was using the matrix license.
    What we are learning now is that people take great pride in the specific game they play, and that we arent swayed as much by fancy licenses. It is a newer genre and really its still finding out where it stands.

    image
    after 6 or so years, I had to change it a little...

  • scaramooshscaramoosh Member Posts: 3,424
    My guess is they wont touch it and let it die ;)

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    Don't click here...no2

  • DinionDinion Member Posts: 879


    Originally posted by Munki
    This person being a GREAT example of sombody who takes pride in their game and bashes others.
    People take a lot of pride in the MMORPG they play. And it was embarassing to say "I play MxO", it was just a bad game hoping to bank on the fact that it was using the matrix license.
    What we are learning now is that people take great pride in the specific game they play, and that we arent swayed as much by fancy licenses. It is a newer genre and really its still finding out where it stands.

    I don't currently play any MMOs, in fact I'm not really playing any games at all atm, the occasional demo and free trial here and there. So I guess that makes my opinion the BEST! ::::02::

    ----------------------------------
    MMOs Retired From: Earth and Beyond, Project Entropia, There, A Tale in the Desert, Star Wars Galaxies, World of Warcraft, Eve Online, City of Heroes/Villains.

    MMOs Currently (worth) Playing: None.

    MMO hopefuls: Age of Conan.

  • RazorbackRazorback Member Posts: 5,253



    Originally posted by scaramoosh
    My guess is they wont touch it and let it die ;)


    /agreed

    +-+-+-+-+-+
    "MMOs, for people that like think chatting is like a skill or something, rotflol"
    http://purepwnage.com
    image
    -+-+-+-+-+-+
    "Far away across the field, the tolling of the iron bell, calls the faithful to their knees. To hear the softly spoken magic spell" Pink Floyd-Dark Side of the Moon


  • Originally posted by Dinion
    Originally posted by Elnator
    Originally posted by ste2000
    Originally posted by scaramoosh SOE brought it but i still don't see any drastic changes to the gameDo you mean that they didn't started nerfing yet?Give them some time, SoE needs a bit of time to completely fuck a game. image

    LOL
    I find it hillarious that people bash SOE.
    Name one game that SOE has produced that hasn't been profitable and successful.


    They bought MxO to get the licence to the DC engine. I suspect they'll either let it die or monkey with it a bit. But I seriously doubt they have any real intention to do much with the game.


    People bash them because they have had more than their fair share of bad(more likely VERY bad) experiences with SOE. I find it hillarious that you have to jump in and defend SOE everytime, just let people vent. Profit and success are exactly the reasons why we can't expect SOE to do any better than they have with their other games.

    EDIT: WE as in those of us who don't expect SOE to do any better, so don't go all off on who WE is.


    What Im getting from this is that you think SOE hasn't made any respectable games, I disagree. They have made EQ, EQ2, PS, SWG. All of those games have been fine, all of which I have subscribed to for atleast 1 month. I know that isn't enough time to fully evaluate whether the game is decent or not but thats not the point. All of those games have been "successful" in my opinion, lots of subscribers and players.

    That is what successfulness is evaluated by, correct? I mean like ste2000 said. Britney Spears can be successful because she sold lots of CDs but the actual music is just horrible. I completely disagree with that, SOE has done a good job with all of their games, (all the big ones atleast) my only problem is that it takes too damn long for them to get back to me on a technical problem ticket. Again drifting form the point...

    I don't find it hilarious that Elnator defends SOE, they are a respectable company and I expect them to do better and improve.


    I agree with you ste2000. That is a great analogy for being "successful"

  • Xix13Xix13 Member Posts: 259


    Originally posted by ste2000
    Originally posted by scaramoosh SOE brought it but i still don't see any drastic changes to the gameDo you mean that they didn't started nerfing yet?Give them some time, SoE needs a bit of time to completely fuck a game. image

    Oh, you are SO right here. The true death of MxO will be that SOE bought it. After what they've done to what could have been a great game (SWG), I'll never buy another product with Sony on it ever again.

    -- Xix
    "I know what you're thinking: 'Why, oh WHY, didn't I take the BLUE pill?'"

  • daveospicedaveospice Member UncommonPosts: 357



    Originally posted by Razorback



    Originally posted by daveospice
    it's already sort of too late.  Thousands of people bought the box, and thousands of playersp robably at least payed for one month...  They made a profit, as long as they cut their losses at the right time.  They're sure to do it again.

    Interestingly all the mail says they didnt make money on the launch sales. Like Copeland pointed out best estimates say around 40K boxes were sold initially... even on those numbers it would go something like this...

    40K x $50 = $2 million .... thats nothing like enough to cover everything that would have gone into development, launch and supporting it for the first 3 months. I havnt seen how much they sold it to SOE for but logic tells you they wouldnt have sold it if overall they were turning a profit. So my guess would be that they did it to stop the bleeding.

    In any case.... companies like Monolith and Warner dont go into things to break even or make small losses. Anything less than a healthy profit is considered a failure and after having their fingers burned they will definately take more care with the next attempt at an MMO.... that can only be a good thing.



    Some very good points, but judging by the quality of the game I would say it didn't cost as much as you think to make it.  SOE probably offered a pretty good chunk of money (as they can and do have the money to do so).  It's the matrix online title, MATRIX.  Matrix is like DBZ, it doesn't matter if the game's good as long as you make it appeal to the aspects of the product that people liked in the first place (in dbz it's power and aww factor.)  Add things like the jumping across buildings and you'll win everyone's heart.    Matrix is a huge name, and if they can turn it around...  Think of the money they'll make.  Star wars, matrix online and Everquest... 3 really big names.  Names are low risk and powerful money makers.

     

     

  • SushiXSushiX Member Posts: 7

    I can almost guarantee you that this sale was motivated by SoE wanting to purchase the rights to the DC MMO and WB making them take over control of MxO. WB was very unhappy with the way it had been handled from Monolith, and due to very underwhelming sales, they wanted out.

    I dont think that this will stop people from making bad games though, sadly.

  • DinionDinion Member Posts: 879


    Originally posted by soad_nathan
    Originally posted by Dinion
    Originally posted by Elnator
    Originally posted by ste2000
    Originally posted by scaramoosh SOE brought it but i still don't see any drastic changes to the gameDo you mean that they didn't started nerfing yet?Give them some time, SoE needs a bit of time to completely fuck a game. image

    LOL
    I find it hillarious that people bash SOE.
    Name one game that SOE has produced that hasn't been profitable and successful.


    They bought MxO to get the licence to the DC engine. I suspect they'll either let it die or monkey with it a bit. But I seriously doubt they have any real intention to do much with the game.


    People bash them because they have had more than their fair share of bad(more likely VERY bad) experiences with SOE. I find it hillarious that you have to jump in and defend SOE everytime, just let people vent. Profit and success are exactly the reasons why we can't expect SOE to do any better than they have with their other games.

    EDIT: WE as in those of us who don't expect SOE to do any better, so don't go all off on who WE is.


    What Im getting from this is that you think SOE hasn't made any respectable games, I disagree. They have made EQ, EQ2, PS, SWG. All of those games have been fine, all of which I have subscribed to for atleast 1 month. I know that isn't enough time to fully evaluate whether the game is decent or not but thats not the point. All of those games have been "successful" in my opinion, lots of subscribers and players.

    That is what successfulness is evaluated by, correct? I mean like ste2000 said. Britney Spears can be successful because she sold lots of CDs but the actual music is just horrible. I completely disagree with that, SOE has done a good job with all of their games, (all the big ones atleast) my only problem is that it takes too damn long for them to get back to me on a technical problem ticket. Again drifting form the point...

    I don't find it hilarious that Elnator defends SOE, they are a respectable company and I expect them to do better and improve.


    I agree with you ste2000. That is a great analogy for being "successful"


    What you should be getting from this is EXACTLY what it says "people bash SOE because they have had very bad experiences". Where does this whole respectable thing come from? What do you even mean by it and how does it address people having very bad experiences with SOE? And I AGREED that it's successful, Why are you arguing as if I didn't?

    ----------------------------------
    MMOs Retired From: Earth and Beyond, Project Entropia, There, A Tale in the Desert, Star Wars Galaxies, World of Warcraft, Eve Online, City of Heroes/Villains.

    MMOs Currently (worth) Playing: None.

    MMO hopefuls: Age of Conan.

  • Seeker728Seeker728 Member UncommonPosts: 179



    Originally posted by soad_nathan




    Originally posted by Dinion



    Originally posted by Elnator



    Originally posted by ste2000


    Originally posted by scaramoosh SOE brought it but i still don't see any drastic changes to the game
    Do you mean that they didn't started nerfing yet?Give them some time, SoE needs a bit of time to completely fuck a game. image


    LOL
    I find it hillarious that people bash SOE.
    Name one game that SOE has produced that hasn't been profitable and successful.


    They bought MxO to get the licence to the DC engine. I suspect they'll either let it die or monkey with it a bit. But I seriously doubt they have any real intention to do much with the game.


    People bash them because they have had more than their fair share of bad(more likely VERY bad) experiences with SOE. I find it hillarious that you have to jump in and defend SOE everytime, just let people vent. Profit and success are exactly the reasons why we can't expect SOE to do any better than they have with their other games.

    EDIT: WE as in those of us who don't expect SOE to do any better, so don't go all off on who WE is.


    What Im getting from this is that you think SOE hasn't made any respectable games, I disagree. They have made EQ, EQ2, PS, SWG. All of those games have been fine, all of which I have subscribed to for atleast 1 month. I know that isn't enough time to fully evaluate whether the game is decent or not but thats not the point. All of those games have been "successful" in my opinion, lots of subscribers and players.

    That is what successfulness is evaluated by, correct? I mean like ste2000 said. Britney Spears can be successful because she sold lots of CDs but the actual music is just horrible. I completely disagree with that, SOE has done a good job with all of their games, (all the big ones atleast) my only problem is that it takes too damn long for them to get back to me on a technical problem ticket. Again drifting form the point...

    I don't find it hilarious that Elnator defends SOE, they are a respectable company and I expect them to do better and improve.


    I agree with you ste2000. That is a great analogy for being "successful"


      Successful in making money, yes SOE is that.  Successful in making the sort of games I enjoy to play?  No, they are abysmal failures at that.  EQ was a genre defining game to be sure, it introduced several key concepts to MMOG....concepts that are now dreadfully outdated.  The leveling treadmill is getting on everyone's nerves, why?  Because every MMOG tries to imitate EQ by having one.  People are getting tired of it, but every time someone says "hey, that's enough, I don't care for this style anymore", EQ is dragged out like some of holy relic that not only deserves respect, but demands it.

    If your desire is to see the entire industry become like SOE's products, you're advocating them releasing a unfinished product.  SWG's launch and nearly year of retail saw horrid bugs.  In fact, it still has bugs.  EQ2 has not done anything new but show gamers that no matter how robust their system, SOE can create a engine that will cripple it.  And this is impressive how exactly?  You're also advocating a level treadmill that becomes more tedious than the worst factory job, as well as advocating spending entire weekends trying to succeed at a raid.  None of these things are elements I personally want to see further embraced by the industry.  If anything, I'd like to see this sort of thing avoided like the plague.

    Now if you personally happen to love SOE's products, then continue paying them and be happy.  I'll continue avoiding them and being happy.  But I sincerely hope that the rest of the industry uses SOE as a example of what not to do.

    Even peace may be purchased at too high a price, and the only time you are completely safe is when you lie in the grave.

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