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Ahem: Darkfall is not dead you dummy

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  • IsilithTehrothIsilithTehroth Member UncommonPosts: 454
    edited November 2018
    TEKK3N said:
    cheyane said:
    TEKK3N said:

    This is what happens when there isn't a good balance between the predators and the prey. Inevitably once the prey disappear so do the predators. Predators are always too dumb though to realise that which is why you need balance and systems in place to ensure that the prey don't get wiped out or discouraged to the point that they leave.
    I completely agree.
    All my posts in various PvP games are usually along those lines.
    And usually I get attacked by the 'predators' who do not understand this simple concept.
    The problem is that games company listen to them, but they are a minority.

    EVE made this mistake.
    It used to be a balanced PvP game, now carebears are not able to enjoy the game as they used to, and they are now quitting the game.
    No the thing is espcially for Darkfall online the wolves will say one thing(Lets stop griefing/kill noobs) but then do another. Its almost like they can't stop themselves from easy prey(and in a game like darkfall where player skill and a huge grind really matter; the sheep have no chance).

    Darkfall allowed didnt have enough mechanics to stop griefing(blue blocking ect), zerging(1000+zergs),meaningful racial warfare(that would put stops to ARAC clans and give new players a chance at viable pvp), content for the sheep to do other than to be farmed(game severely needed non pvp stuff or things that didn't focus just so you can pvp).

    I mean people were litterally calling out the reason new player retention was low and why it  was only the best players(whom just nutcupped and joined a clan/alliance) vs the rest. Yet those same people were actively called out in the forums for just killing noobs all day long.

    For pvp alone the game was really good, but for everything else it just sucked compounded with the terrible mechanics in place to prevent things like griefing.

    --------
    I am hoping crowfall gets it right, but already there are things I don't like such as campaigns lasting only 3-6 months, some aspects of the combat(CC fest) the game might be zerg vs zerg, overwhelming graphic effects on skills,lack of meaningful rewards.
    TEKK3N

    MurderHerd

  • AnnwynAnnwyn Member UncommonPosts: 2,850
    Darkfall is and has been dead for many years. RoA and ND are nothing more than private servers run by a few dedicated fans at this point (I know, they bought a license to tweak the game and etc). There was just so many things wrong with the game that no amount of patches can fix it. 

    1. It appealed to a very niche audience (FFA PvP with Full Loot). Not a bad thing, mind you, but you can't afford to lose these players if you want your MMO to survive and thrive.
    2. Originally, the only way to be competitive was to AFK macro your skills and spells.
    3. You needed a clan in order to be able to use their dummy accounts for grinding offensive spells against.
    4. No punishments was handed out to players for exploiting this system.
    5. Jack of all Trades was the only viable build.
    6. Several loopholes that were never(?) addressed allowed the griefing of new players in and around cities. 
    7. PvE content was limited and the risk too high, which discouraged exploration.
    8. There was a clear lack of incentive to go out and explore (Chaos Chest and Trade Routes was about all AV could muster).
    9. Poorly designed Housing System.
    10. Every small-scale battle ended in non-sense high-speed bunnyhopping, which was absolutely ridiculous.
    11. Tasos. I don't need to add anything here, Tasos says everything.


    All RoA and ND have been doing is putting bandaids on a skeleton with only a tiny bit of meat left on its bones to feed the remaining maggots population until they eventually evolve and fly away, or run out of food and die. 
    Caffynated
  • TEKK3NTEKK3N Member RarePosts: 721
    Annwyn said:

    11. Tasos. I don't need to add anything here, Tasos says everything.

    Tasos was a legend.


    Phry
  • Hawkaya399Hawkaya399 Member UncommonPosts: 444
    edited December 2018

    (skip)

    -Rise of agon did very well early on with XML and QOL changes along with some well done revamps to existing skills like cooking(best content change they did, although already existing content). Champions were also very fun and actually one of the few things besides pvp that required alot of players. However they fucked up with the scroll system and another one that eludes me that they completely removed, as well as removing RACIAL WARS which was a huge content and driving force behind pvp in the game for those not in clans and solo players. Unlike ND they were smart enough to host the server in the US. While the game did boast much faster leveling times it also made the game very boring and tedious when there was nothing left to do to improve your character and the dwindling population meant pvp is scarce. Many people didn't like having to farm resources for a house, but I enjoy this aspect as it gave me a goal that didn't revolve around "so I can pvp". The battle with pvp balance competely killed any new content updates, despite them  the new roadmap content being about pvp; the game still needed them. Far worse than New dawn, new players absolutely have no chance in this game as the driving force is sole, pvp. It came down to just the best players in an alliance killing all the less skilled players until they quit. Exploiters weren't dealt with quick enough or at all as with ND(a reoccuring theme for Darkfall) and internally strife littered this games development process. All we got once again was XML changes and broken promises. Once again where are the patches that add stuff like Archage farming? Yes it requires extensive work, but that is the reason you accepted our money and to revive the game. Now they are stuck in an ever back and forth pvp balance tweak quota or doing utterly insignificant things as a patch such as balancing pve. Just re-adjusting already in game content to make it look like they are doing something.

    Both teams are utter trash and it felt more like a cash grabbing scheme than a true attempt at reviving and improving the game. The only ones that had anything gainful from this, is Aventurine. Just relatively easy content concepts that were there to make you buy the game. Changing values on existing files you didn't program doesn't mean you developed the game.

    /rant. The best and mos flawed pvp mmo is dead as it rightfully deserves.
    Thanks for your input.  I think you're probably right in your thoughts. I'm not going to attempt to argue you on these points. Admittedly, populations are far lower here than AAA counterparts, such as Archage or Black Dessert (or older non-PvP like EQ2). For most players there's not a lot of reason to try them.

    I can only speak for myself, not others. I never played original Darkfall and I haven't played these as long as you have. Maybe my ignorance is the only reason I'm playing. I just recently visited my first dungeon and had a lot of fun. It was challenging. One thing I enjoy is the FPS-like combat. The monsters are reasonably fun to attack so far. There're a lot of spells and things to train, so while I've been told it's easy to train for PvP competitiveness, it doesn't seem that way from my perspective. But I"m having fun doing PvE. PvP isn't on my mind right now, it never really has been. I just like hte thrill of being able to lose my stuff in PvP. And I think players are smarter than scripts.

    I think a big reason I posted this thread is because this is FFA PvP full loot in an open world with FPS mechanics and some sandbox elements. It's like a poorer quality of Conan Exiles with some unique touches. There just aren't a lot of MMO's like this. There might be better ones yes, but not a lot of choices. Most MMO's are focused on PvE, low risk/reward ratios and extensive qol features. They do those things really well, as well execution. It's easy to find a better MMO if you focus on those things.. Darkfall fails in most categories when graded on these metrics.

    I want to say RoA is free to play at the present moment. But at only $10/month to sub, I may try it for a month just to see how far I'll go. I'm fully prepared for the moment when I start disliking it and leave. I have other gotos. I could try Wurm ONline again. I could return to SOTA. I can try Archage or others, like Xsyon or POE.

    I've probably played 24 or more hours in sum since I started. In that time, I've only seen other players in Sanguine. I've not been attacked yet by anybody, but somebody threatened me in chat.
    Post edited by Hawkaya399 on
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 33,932
    TEKK3N said:
    I love Darkfall. I also enjoy both of these versions of it. The problem is, having two versions split the tiny community in half.
    I agree.
    Darkfall is one of the few PVP games that kind of worked in a MMO environment (the other is EVE).
    In my opinion there should be no PVP in MMOs, unless it has a meaning, like territory conquest in Darkfall for example.
    Any other type of PvP should be funneled to MOBAs.

    Problem with Darkfall (and now with EVE), is that the game gave too much freedom to single players who are completely free to behave like jerks, griefing newbies and carebears (which make the bulk of PvP players) , and killing the game population in the process.

    Games like Darkfall and EVE should be about Territory conquest, Guild vs Guild, Realm vs Realm.
    There should be serious restrictions on 1vs1 PvP because that's what ruin those games.

    PVE should be viable in those games (it used to be in EVE, not now), because the majority of PvPers are carebears and want to be able to PVE in a relatively safe environment, for then enjoy PvP in major events.
    VO has pretty tight PvP.  It's twitch-based, with Newtonian mechanics, so you can use maneuvers to your advantage even if you are outclassed in terms of equipment.
    If there is true newtonian physics it can't be twitched based.....
    Gdemami

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • AmatheAmathe Member LegendaryPosts: 5,732
    edited December 2018

    EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests

  • ChildoftheShadowsChildoftheShadows Member RarePosts: 1,106
    As an avid player of All darkfalls, including Rise of Agon and New dawn; they are in fact DEAD. No amount of "but VCP had 20 guys last night" will change that. Both development teams had their shot and they both horribly blew it. You are trying to talk yourself out of it more than anything at this point.

    Both teams thought they knew what hurt the game but were both oblivious. All the XML and Quality of life changes should have been made in alpha(I mean the whole fucking game was already made for you) and quality content patches should have been steadily rolled out. While each game did certain things right(ROA with housing, cooking, champions)(ND with specializations and armor[Still could have been better]) it wasn't even close to being anything substantial to improving the game.

    They both focused way too much on things they half-assed or scraped anyways and the biggest reason is that they both try to focus on pvp too much. Stop fucking added more pvp oriented content and add shit for the sheep who have something other than being farmed by a veteran/zerg alliance.
    -------------

    -New dawn spent litterally a year just to revamp their half assed first itteration of titles and even then it wasn't done right(Game altering spells should be locked behind a title like stone/iron skin, melee/archery haste with 4 skills locked behind a title (instead of 2) with only 2 active at a time). They neglected everything else really except for some QOL changes early on. Those sea towers R.I.P also still waiting for land towers. The idiotic decision to place the server in France when its a mostly American player base.The only saving grace was the title specialization which the game SORELY NEEDED, but wasn't implemented right. Following AV's footsteps to a T they don't do anything against people that exploited VCPS early on or exploits at all, and then SOON tm'd us. TERRRRRRRIBLE retention for new players with absolutely no new features or content added. THE GAME NEEDS SANDBOX CONTENT. The only thing we got was XML changes and broken promises.

    -Rise of agon did very well early on with XML and QOL changes along with some well done revamps to existing skills like cooking(best content change they did, although already existing content). Champions were also very fun and actually one of the few things besides pvp that required alot of players. However they fucked up with the scroll system and another one that eludes me that they completely removed, as well as removing RACIAL WARS which was a huge content and driving force behind pvp in the game for those not in clans and solo players. Unlike ND they were smart enough to host the server in the US. While the game did boast much faster leveling times it also made the game very boring and tedious when there was nothing left to do to improve your character and the dwindling population meant pvp is scarce. Many people didn't like having to farm resources for a house, but I enjoy this aspect as it gave me a goal that didn't revolve around "so I can pvp". The battle with pvp balance competely killed any new content updates, despite them  the new roadmap content being about pvp; the game still needed them. Far worse than New dawn, new players absolutely have no chance in this game as the driving force is sole, pvp. It came down to just the best players in an alliance killing all the less skilled players until they quit. Exploiters weren't dealt with quick enough or at all as with ND(a reoccuring theme for Darkfall) and internally strife littered this games development process. All we got once again was XML changes and broken promises. Once again where are the patches that add stuff like Archage farming? Yes it requires extensive work, but that is the reason you accepted our money and to revive the game. Now they are stuck in an ever back and forth pvp balance tweak quota or doing utterly insignificant things as a patch such as balancing pve. Just re-adjusting already in game content to make it look like they are doing something.

    Both teams are utter trash and it felt more like a cash grabbing scheme than a true attempt at reviving and improving the game. The only ones that had anything gainful from this, is Aventurine. Just relatively easy content concepts that were there to make you buy the game. Changing values on existing files you didn't program doesn't mean you developed the game.

    /rant. The best and mos flawed pvp mmo is dead as it rightfully deserves.
    “Cash grab” well my thoughts on your opinion just went out the window. You don’t take an indie team and pay a company to resurrect their dead game for a cash grab. Did they not make enough of the right changes? Perhaps. We’re they, like so many other mmos, not able to stay in testing before finishing thus launching too soon? Definitely. 

    A good effort for sure though. More than anyone here can account for. 
  • VengeSunsoarVengeSunsoar Member RarePosts: 6,543
    I'm definitely ignorant a lot of the business aspects of MMO games and development. However buying an old and dying game, paying some people to fix some things, get publicity... seems far far far cheaper than building a new game and  would be the very formula for a cash grab.
    Gdemami
    Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
  • ChildoftheShadowsChildoftheShadows Member RarePosts: 1,106
    edited December 2018
    I'm definitely ignorant a lot of the business aspects of MMO games and development. However buying an old and dying game, paying some people to fix some things, get publicity... seems far far far cheaper than building a new game and  would be the very formula for a cash grab.
    You have to make money for something to be a cash grab. This was a group of fans getting together donating money for the lease costs and working for free to bring back a game they loved. 
    Post edited by ChildoftheShadows on
    Hawkaya399
  • Hawkaya399Hawkaya399 Member UncommonPosts: 444
    edited May 23
    Wanted to update. My interests changed with the winds and I went elsewhere. Right now I'm playing Wurm Onilne on the Chaos server (PvP). However, I still fondly remember RoA. I was having a lot of fun.

    As was recently shown here on mmorpg.com, they've updated F2P:
    We would like to thank all of you who helped test our Freemium restrictions during the soft launch. There were a few changes we made due to player feedback, such as eliminating the reduction in skill progression speed on Freemium accounts, and we added in new tracking tools to better monitor player activity and account metrics. We are happy with where things are right now and will be fully implementing our Freemium release when this next patch goes live.

    I think I will eventually go back. It's just hat with all the things in my life, it's hard to stay with one thing forever for very long. I'm just not that kind of player. It's hard to juggle all of it. I still recommend this to anybody lookign for PvP/PvE in an open world with some full loot and sandbox elements. Every MMO is different and I think RoA offers some unique things--and we have to make some compromises to get it. Not everything is going to be or can be AAA. That's life. Good luck RoA!

    Post edited by Hawkaya399 on
  • Hawkaya399Hawkaya399 Member UncommonPosts: 444
    edited May 13
    I'm definitely ignorant a lot of the business aspects of MMO games and development. However buying an old and dying game, paying some people to fix some things, get publicity... seems far far far cheaper than building a new game and  would be the very formula for a cash grab.
    You have to make money for something to be a cash grab. This was a group of fans getting together donating money for the lease costs and working for free to bring back a game they loved. 
    Obviously. If thye were trying to do a cash grab the last place they'd go is Darkfall. Unless they're a group of morons.
    ChildoftheShadows
  • AdamantineAdamantine Member RarePosts: 4,276
    * FFA PvP and (mostly, with few exceptions) full loot
    Yep, exactly. Which is already why its dead to ME, no matter how successful it would be otherwise. And apparently, according to other threads in this forum, this is true for many people.

    Having to aim in itself would also be perfectly sufficient to drop my interest to zero. I'm not gonna try to compete at 40+ with the reflexes of some 16 year old, thank you very much.

    Please set a sig so I can read your posting even if somebody "agreed" etc with it. Thanks.
  • ChildoftheShadowsChildoftheShadows Member RarePosts: 1,106
    * FFA PvP and (mostly, with few exceptions) full loot
    Yep, exactly. Which is already why its dead to ME, no matter how successful it would be otherwise. And apparently, according to other threads in this forum, this is true for many people.

    Having to aim in itself would also be perfectly sufficient to drop my interest to zero. I'm not gonna try to compete at 40+ with the reflexes of some 16 year old, thank you very much.

    That's why there are other options :) To each their own. I'm over 40 and have yet to feel the desire to go back to tab target. Maybe when I'm 80. We'll see :D
  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 27,047
    * FFA PvP and (mostly, with few exceptions) full loot
    Yep, exactly. Which is already why its dead to ME, no matter how successful it would be otherwise. And apparently, according to other threads in this forum, this is true for many people.

    Having to aim in itself would also be perfectly sufficient to drop my interest to zero. I'm not gonna try to compete at 40+ with the reflexes of some 16 year old, thank you very much.

    That's why there are other options :) To each their own. I'm over 40 and have yet to feel the desire to go back to tab target. Maybe when I'm 80. We'll see :D
    yeah, while I'll play tab target games, for me, it's just a  "less than" system.

    I want to aim. And I'm over 50.







  • mmoloummolou Member UncommonPosts: 205
    May not be dead, but In my opinion, it is definitely on life support.
    Huntrezz
    It is a funny world we live in.
    We had Empires run by Emperors, we had Kingdoms run by Kings, now we have Countries...
  • HuntrezzHuntrezz Member UncommonPosts: 55
    Its definitely on life support and one must ask at what point is the plug pulled for the general good of all.

  • ChildoftheShadowsChildoftheShadows Member RarePosts: 1,106
    Inaccurate. It's population is on the rise as updates keep coming :)

    Hate if you want, but hate accurately or be shunned!
  • VengeSunsoarVengeSunsoar Member RarePosts: 6,543
    Having updates don't meen the population is increasing. Istaria still gets updates and I don't think it has 500 people still playing.
    Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
  • ChildoftheShadowsChildoftheShadows Member RarePosts: 1,106
    Lol nah, that's just what happens when you actually know what's going on and others are just being toxic.
    mmolouHawkaya399
  • madazzmadazz Member RarePosts: 1,976
    Played the original, then a little of its second release... Im not playing its 3rd or 4th. Sick of restarting.
  • XarkoXarko Member RarePosts: 1,130
    Seems to me like it is. The question is how many more times does it have to die to stay that way.
  • ChildoftheShadowsChildoftheShadows Member RarePosts: 1,106
    Xarko said:
    Seems to me like it is. The question is how many more times does it have to die to stay that way.
    If your definition of dead is an increasing population and continued development then I there's no way anyone can convince you otherwise.

    WoW is dead, Eve is dead, all the games are dead people! Go on home! Nothing to see here!
    Xarko
  • pkpkpkpkpkpk Member UncommonPosts: 203
    You've missed the golden age of MMORPGs by a long shot if you are pursuing Darkfall. If this is the kind of game you like I recommend you look into Carrion Fields or other text MUDs with PvP. Ultima Online did this, Lineage might have, Shadowbane did to a much lesser degree, and that is about it. I saw someone call 3D graphics "ugly" in this thread ... laughable. Have fun chasing your dreams friend. Truth is if you want PvP the only option is to play a text MUD, you are wasting your time with anything else. The familiar refrain: "It's dead", "it's a ghost town" --well there are not a massive number of players who want this experience, every game you have played has been a illusion. You have to play a game scaled for the number of players interested in this, i.e. a MUD, not a huge 3D world that needs players in the hundreds and thousands, I can't think of a worse gaming experience. But hey there are a hundred players on Project 1999 Red at peak hours, there's a game for everyone I suppose. If I wanted a serious PvP experience though I'd be on Carrion Fields, God Wars, or that kind of race or clan based MUD. I have tried some of these in fact, but found them too easy, I think MUDs have become easier to attract more players. But an easy MUD is generally still much harder than any MMORPG.

    Anyway I suppose there is a kind of player that is always chasing his dreams. Otherwise how would the Aventurines and ArcheAges make any money? Yet if you care for the integrity of this kind of game, you'd be better off playing the ones that already exist, rather than chasing new ones (and yes Darkfall is new, it's not even remotely related to the golden age of MMORPGs, it was a poor game that spent too much time on graphics, had a hideous community (both of which I think are strongly related), and was overrun with macros, hacks, and exploits within days of release). But wasn't the game action based anyway? Not really even related to traditional MMORPGs or MUDs. On the other hand try cheating, exploiting, macroing or hacking on a good MUD. Odds are you won't last long, and may have your IP banned. But yeah supporting new MMORPGs is the worst thing you can do to the genre of MUDs and MMORPGs. Just childish and irresponsible indulgence.  Just play a MUD... there's no alternative. 
  • ChildoftheShadowsChildoftheShadows Member RarePosts: 1,106
    pkpkpk said:
    You've missed the golden age of MMORPGs by a long shot if you are pursuing Darkfall. If this is the kind of game you like I recommend you look into Carrion Fields or other text MUDs with PvP. Ultima Online did this, Lineage might have, Shadowbane did to a much lesser degree, and that is about it. I saw someone call 3D graphics "ugly" in this thread ... laughable. Have fun chasing your dreams friend. Truth is if you want PvP the only option is to play a text MUD, you are wasting your time with anything else. The familiar refrain: "It's dead", "it's a ghost town" --well there are not a massive number of players who want this experience, every game you have played has been a illusion. You have to play a game scaled for the number of players interested in this, i.e. a MUD, not a huge 3D world that needs players in the hundreds and thousands, I can't think of a worse gaming experience. But hey there are a hundred players on Project 1999 Red at peak hours, there's a game for everyone I suppose. If I wanted a serious PvP experience though I'd be on Carrion Fields, God Wars, or that kind of race or clan based MUD. I have tried some of these in fact, but found them too easy, I think MUDs have become easier to attract more players. But an easy MUD is generally still much harder than any MMORPG.

    Anyway I suppose there is a kind of player that is always chasing his dreams. Otherwise how would the Aventurines and ArcheAges make any money? Yet if you care for the integrity of this kind of game, you'd be better off playing the ones that already exist, rather than chasing new ones (and yes Darkfall is new, it's not even remotely related to the golden age of MMORPGs, it was a poor game that spent too much time on graphics, had a hideous community (both of which I think are strongly related), and was overrun with macros, hacks, and exploits within days of release). But wasn't the game action based anyway? Not really even related to traditional MMORPGs or MUDs. On the other hand try cheating, exploiting, macroing or hacking on a good MUD. Odds are you won't last long, and may have your IP banned. But yeah supporting new MMORPGs is the worst thing you can do to the genre of MUDs and MMORPGs. Just childish and irresponsible indulgence.  Just play a MUD... there's no alternative. 
    Can't stand MUDs, so no thanks.
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