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Ahem: Darkfall is not dead you dummy

Hawkaya399Hawkaya399 Member UncommonPosts: 383
edited November 2018 in The Pub at MMORPG.COM
I just made a separate thread here, in the Rise of Agon MMORPG.com forums. Skip freely:
https://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/477574/just-tried-its-not-bad#latest

I felt this needs attention, so I came to the pub. A review of Darkfall is in order:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darkfall

Key points:
* Open World and no instancing
* Supposedly deep crafting system; probably just onpar with dated expectations
* FFA PvP and (mostly, with few exceptions) full loot
* Mildly sandbox world; players conquer villages, can build houses, own deeds, etc.
* PvE: Small mob concentration, but high mob AI
* PvE: Inclues dungeons, as well various overland spawn camps
* Large main landmass with several islands
* Travel via ships, mounts,  teleporters, magic and runes
* Six races and three factions
* Skill-based; no classes
* Ship and mounted combat (if i'm not mistaken)
* Semi-realistic stealth mechanics
* FPS-like combat (you have to aim at your opponent)

It's open world FFA PvP in a mildly sandbox world. It was the brain child of Aventurine Sa, as we all know, and we know how it ended. End of story. Close the book. Wait...

It's not over! The source code was purchased by Ub3rgames and Big Picture Games. Why did I never hear about this? How many others are like this and thought it was dead and gone?

Big Picture Games created Rise of Agon. Ub3rgames is responsible for New Dawn.

Rise of Agon:

New Dawn:

They're both being actively updated. They're both commercial, so you'll ultimately want to pay for a subscription or premium service. Populations aren't large, but what can be expected for FFA PvP, full loot, aged graphics and lack of advertising? This is about the best a player of this niche can do, short of playing Camelot Unchained or Crowfall (when they come out), but I already expect them to be a repeat of most others, unless they plan to dramatically change the audience they're producing for.

I haven't yet played New Dawn, so my experiences are narrowly focused on Rise of Agon. What I can say is summarized in the link at the beginning of this post. However, I can say it has a 7 day trial period and the price per month for subbing is $9.99, and you get a 25% discount if you pay for 3 months. It's rare for me to see another player in my starting area, but I have seen a couple. The game is playable alone so far, and I'm several hours into it.

Please, if you're like me and played various PvP MMO's and on PvP servers for the numerous MMORPGs to sprout up over the past 20 years, don't pass this opportunity up. Don't be clever. We know it's in your blood to play these things. PvE alone can't do it because the rush isn't there. No risk. Won't do. Give it a try. No time to be choosy. There're not a lot of options unless you lower your expectations and play what amounts to carebear PvP and kid gloves.

Some links for the two below.

Rise of Agon at MMORPG.com:
https://forums.mmorpg.com/categories/darkfall-rise-of-agon
Rise of Agon: Content Update
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IduzUNk-Vig
Rise of Agon: (older) Getting started videos
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kGLYSRdCUE&list=PL8Np6hZ83rgz7sMCz7UdIg2q-Od9b_ysJ
Rise of Agon: Lets Play
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRvL6alsjGc

New Dawn at MMORPG.com:
https://forums.mmorpg.com/categories/darkfall-new-dawn
New Dawn: Review by noob
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oOVO-TxEka0
New Dawn: Unique MMORPG
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBfWs3-BCvU
New Dawn: Differences from RoA and other Darkfall variants
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ka7X8Zogf20

Differences between RoA and ND:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gU09rmhhzkk
Post edited by Hawkaya399 on
CaffynatedKyleransumdumguy1TheScavengercraftseeker
«1

Comments

  • parrotpholkparrotpholk Member EpicPosts: 4,513
    This game tried before to succeed and failed.  Most of that was the fault of AV and bad marketing plus the whole launch fiasco where only so many could buy the game at a time.

    I think what we find is far more people scream they want this type of game than actually would play this type of game.  DF is a rather shallow experience and always was.  As much as the PVE is shit in BDO everything else is much better done and with depth than DF.  Hell Archeage does it better as well.  There just is not much to get excited about between the battle royale sieges. 

    I admire these two developers though for resurrecting it.  
    sumdumguy1d_20craftseekerGaladourn
  • CryomatrixCryomatrix Member EpicPosts: 2,422
    I played it for a time and then one day just walked away, it didnt hook me.it has good stuff though, graphics are a bit poor and not much innovative, but could be fun for the right person 
    sumdumguy1d_20
  • Panther2103Panther2103 Member EpicPosts: 5,022
    I love Darkfall. I also enjoy both of these versions of it. The problem is, having two versions split the tiny community in half. I did find a decent clan last time I played, but I ran across the entire world in RoA (to get to the clan area) and didn't encounter one other player. Maybe I got lucky, but I do remember back when AV was running it, I would see at least some other players when I made that run. 
    d_20
  • CaffynatedCaffynated Member RarePosts: 434

    I think what we find is far more people scream they want this type of game than actually would play this type of game. 
    Darkfail isn't a fair example to use for people not wanting to play a game with its advertised features. Everything it tried to do it did badly. It is to MMORPG PvP sandboxes what The War Z is to zombie shooters. Just because they sucked and nobody wanted to play them doesn't mean people aren't really interested in their genres.
    SovrathVermillion_RaventhalMordred1
  • parrotpholkparrotpholk Member EpicPosts: 4,513

    I think what we find is far more people scream they want this type of game than actually would play this type of game. 
    Darkfail isn't a fair example to use for people not wanting to play a game with its advertised features. Everything it tried to do it did badly. It is to MMORPG PvP sandboxes what The War Z is to zombie shooters. Just because they sucked and nobody wanted to play them doesn't mean people aren't really interested in their genres.
    Was speaking to the model DF tried to attempt which was empty sandbox with huge world that was basically a battle royale.  Territory control meant nothing really and was the key feature.

    The thing I did admire about AV was they dreamed big.  Unfortunately dreams cost money which they had in short supply.  The right Pvp model would definitely work.  Not sure a full loot one would ever work on a grand scale but who knows what tomorrow will bring.
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 32,435

    I think what we find is far more people scream they want this type of game than actually would play this type of game. 
    Darkfail isn't a fair example to use for people not wanting to play a game with its advertised features. Everything it tried to do it did badly. It is to MMORPG PvP sandboxes what The War Z is to zombie shooters. Just because they sucked and nobody wanted to play them doesn't mean people aren't really interested in their genres.
    You say this, so I have to ask, are you currently playing EVE, Albion Online, Archeage perhaps?

    Or none of the above for...."reasons"

    Hard to take such claims seriously if the only FFA PVP games one is willing to play are mythical ones in some far distant future.


    ManWithNoTananemosumdumguy1ConstantineMerus

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • CaffynatedCaffynated Member RarePosts: 434
    Kyleran said:

    I think what we find is far more people scream they want this type of game than actually would play this type of game. 
    Darkfail isn't a fair example to use for people not wanting to play a game with its advertised features. Everything it tried to do it did badly. It is to MMORPG PvP sandboxes what The War Z is to zombie shooters. Just because they sucked and nobody wanted to play them doesn't mean people aren't really interested in their genres.
    You say this, so I have to ask, are you currently playing EVE, Albion Online, Archeage perhaps?

    Or none of the above for...."reasons"

    Hard to take such claims seriously if the only FFA PVP games one is willing to play are mythical ones in some far distant future.


    I've played plenty of FFA PvP games and enjoyed most of them. UO per-Rennaisance, Shadowbane, Eve, AC Darktide, etc. Obviously I'm not playing any of those actively as they're badly outdated. I don't play Archeage because it's hopelessly P2W and F Trion for scamming so many of us out of money with their lies. 

    It's not the FFA PvP that drove me away from Darkfall, it's that everything about the game, especially the combat, was awful. Ugly graphics, terrible animations, boring, clunky, awful combat, bad crafting, bad itemization, bad PvE, bad skill grinds, no skill caps, nad UI, bad communication system, just bad everything. It was a bad game.
    natpick
  • sumdumguy1sumdumguy1 Member RarePosts: 1,245
    My cousin plays and likes this game.  However he actually tells me its pretty dead compared to the other mmo's he plays.
    TheScavengerHuntrezz
  • Hawkaya399Hawkaya399 Member UncommonPosts: 383
    edited November 2018

    I've played plenty of FFA PvP games and enjoyed most of them. UO per-Rennaisance, Shadowbane, Eve, AC Darktide, etc. Obviously I'm not playing any of those actively as they're badly outdated. I don't play Archeage because it's hopelessly P2W and F Trion for scamming so many of us out of money with their lies. 

    It's not the FFA PvP that drove me away from Darkfall, it's that everything about the game, especially the combat, was awful. Ugly graphics, terrible animations, boring, clunky, awful combat, bad crafting, bad itemization, bad PvE, bad skill grinds, no skill caps, nad UI, bad communication system, just bad everything. It was a bad game.
    I haven't played RoA long enough to comment about all of the things you say. My impressions were listed in the first link I gave:

    Ugly graphics? Outdated, yes, by about 7-10 years, but honestly when I play Shroud of the Avatar, whilst it has better graphics, it doesn't really matter to me. Terrible animations? I haven't really noticed that, but I don't pay attention. Boring? Not yet. Clunky? Yes. The interface and controls are clunky, maybe even awful. However, DF is trying to do FPS-style combat in an MMORPG and I think they just failed to do what most MMO's aren't doing. This doesn't fully excuse them. (How did Asherons Call do it?) Awful combat? So far, the combat seems ok, if the controls and interface are ignored. The enemies actually move around and it seems to mirror what I read on the wiki about the enemies having some AI. The archers will go from using their bow to using melee, for example. They'll assist each other. They'll sometimes try to run. They can however be exploited by pulling them to their spawn range. There's basic physics; the enemies can actually hit each other with their arrows by accident. Bad crafting? Haven't tried yet. Itemization? Can't comment either. Skill grinds? Haven't noticed, since I've just started playing and haven't even explored the world yet. I agree the chat system isn't the best for communication. (ex: I was told almost no players even read local chat, so communication is primarily via private messages. You can imagine, for me, coming from more social MMO's, this was a shock.) The game is confusing on a lot of levels, I'll give you that.

    I guess the reason I came here is because it's not easy to find FFA PvP and full loot in an open world MMORPG without instancing, alongside all of its other features. I'm not saying you're wrong and I think your opinion is shared by most players out there. So don't take what I say above as an attack on you. Rather, it's just my own impression so far.

    EDIT: Just to give an example of the control/interface trouble I've had is I couldn't even find a list of the quests I have. There's a journal for tasks and a window showing them, but nothing for quests. There's a quest tab in the chat window, but it shows all quest text. You can imagine how awkward it was for me when I expected there to be a list somewhere.

    And that's just the beginning. But I'm very forgiving honestly. I'm having fun.
    Caffynated
  • RenoakuRenoaku Member EpicPosts: 3,032
    The ping is way too high need USA server to play the game the original Dark Fall was great, but perhaps make the source codes open source for it so users can run their own servers.
  • d_20d_20 Member RarePosts: 1,878
    edited November 2018
    I would play, but the ping is too high for me in Asia. Also, not sure if there are too few people on the server, it's hard to solo. In the old days, you could roam around and find stuff to do, gank miners, get into scraps here and there, make friends, etc. But I don't have time to commit to an organized clan, so it rules out these kinds of games for me.


  • Hawkaya399Hawkaya399 Member UncommonPosts: 383
    edited November 2018
    Renoaku said:
    The ping is way too high need USA server to play the game the original Dark Fall was great, but perhaps make the source codes open source for it so users can run their own servers.
    Rise of Agon does have a NA server in New York. That's the big reason I chose it over New Dawn. I live in Oregon and my ping is 95 - 110. That might be too high to be competitive in melee/archery I'm told, but not impossible. Most of the players are mage focused because of ping and cost.

    They're actively updating the game. One thing I disagree with is they're polling players to decide the future of the game. I think this is bad for game balance. What do players know about it? Only thing I can think of is they're rigging the polls so it doesn't matter what you vote for. But they're doing a lot of good though. They're also working on a territorial 1.0 update, to encourage players to capture territory.
  • boris20boris20 Member UncommonPosts: 248
    Its dead. Both versions, new dawn and Rise of Agon. When the most active clans have about 10 actives daily, and sieges field 30-40 people, the game is on life support. Good luck even finding a decent fight out roaming. 
    Hawkaya399PhryHuntrezz
  • boris20boris20 Member UncommonPosts: 248
    Renoaku said:
    The ping is way too high need USA server to play the game the original Dark Fall was great, but perhaps make the source codes open source for it so users can run their own servers.
    Rise of Agon does have a NA server in New York. That's the big reason I chose it over New Dawn. I live in Oregon and my ping is 95 - 110. That might be too high to be competitive in melee/archery I'm told, but not impossible. Most of the players are mage focused because of ping and cost.

    They're actively updating the game. One thing I disagree with is they're polling players to decide the future of the game. I think this is bad for game balance. What do players know about it? Only thing I can think of is they're rigging the polls so it doesn't matter what you vote for. But they're doing a lot of good though. They're also working on a territorial 1.0 update, to encourage players to capture territory.
    If I recall, the last "poll" had under 15 people vote on it?
    Hawkaya399PhryJamesGoblinLokero
  • IsilithTehrothIsilithTehroth Member UncommonPosts: 433
    edited November 2018
    As an avid player of All darkfalls, including Rise of Agon and New dawn; they are in fact DEAD. No amount of "but VCP had 20 guys last night" will change that. Both development teams had their shot and they both horribly blew it. You are trying to talk yourself out of it more than anything at this point.

    Both teams thought they knew what hurt the game but were both oblivious. All the XML and Quality of life changes should have been made in alpha(I mean the whole fucking game was already made for you) and quality content patches should have been steadily rolled out. While each game did certain things right(ROA with housing, cooking, champions)(ND with specializations and armor[Still could have been better]) it wasn't even close to being anything substantial to improving the game.

    They both focused way too much on things they half-assed or scraped anyways and the biggest reason is that they both try to focus on pvp too much. Stop fucking added more pvp oriented content and add shit for the sheep who have something other than being farmed by a veteran/zerg alliance.
    -------------

    -New dawn spent litterally a year just to revamp their half assed first itteration of titles and even then it wasn't done right(Game altering spells should be locked behind a title like stone/iron skin, melee/archery haste with 4 skills locked behind a title (instead of 2) with only 2 active at a time). They neglected everything else really except for some QOL changes early on. Those sea towers R.I.P also still waiting for land towers. The idiotic decision to place the server in France when its a mostly American player base.The only saving grace was the title specialization which the game SORELY NEEDED, but wasn't implemented right. Following AV's footsteps to a T they don't do anything against people that exploited VCPS early on or exploits at all, and then SOON tm'd us. TERRRRRRRIBLE retention for new players with absolutely no new features or content added. THE GAME NEEDS SANDBOX CONTENT. The only thing we got was XML changes and broken promises.

    -Rise of agon did very well early on with XML and QOL changes along with some well done revamps to existing skills like cooking(best content change they did, although already existing content). Champions were also very fun and actually one of the few things besides pvp that required alot of players. However they fucked up with the scroll system and another one that eludes me that they completely removed, as well as removing RACIAL WARS which was a huge content and driving force behind pvp in the game for those not in clans and solo players. Unlike ND they were smart enough to host the server in the US. While the game did boast much faster leveling times it also made the game very boring and tedious when there was nothing left to do to improve your character and the dwindling population meant pvp is scarce. Many people didn't like having to farm resources for a house, but I enjoy this aspect as it gave me a goal that didn't revolve around "so I can pvp". The battle with pvp balance competely killed any new content updates, despite them  the new roadmap content being about pvp; the game still needed them. Far worse than New dawn, new players absolutely have no chance in this game as the driving force is sole, pvp. It came down to just the best players in an alliance killing all the less skilled players until they quit. Exploiters weren't dealt with quick enough or at all as with ND(a reoccuring theme for Darkfall) and internally strife littered this games development process. All we got once again was XML changes and broken promises. Once again where are the patches that add stuff like Archage farming? Yes it requires extensive work, but that is the reason you accepted our money and to revive the game. Now they are stuck in an ever back and forth pvp balance tweak quota or doing utterly insignificant things as a patch such as balancing pve. Just re-adjusting already in game content to make it look like they are doing something.

    Both teams are utter trash and it felt more like a cash grabbing scheme than a true attempt at reviving and improving the game. The only ones that had anything gainful from this, is Aventurine. Just relatively easy content concepts that were there to make you buy the game. Changing values on existing files you didn't program doesn't mean you developed the game.

    /rant. The best and mos flawed pvp mmo is dead as it rightfully deserves.
    PhryJamesGoblinCaffynatedKyleranHawkaya399

    MurderHerd

  • cheyanecheyane Member EpicPosts: 6,132
    Both teams shot themselves in the foot looks like. Selfishness with no regard for the player base or the game itself. Greediness that spelled doom and reaping what they sow by the lack of players.

    As an avid player of All darkfalls, including Rise of Agon and New dawn; they are in fact DEAD. No amount of "but VCP had 20 guys last night" will change that. Both development teams had their shot and they both horribly blew it. You are trying to talk yourself out of it more than anything at this point.

    Both teams thought they knew what hurt the game but were both oblivious. All the XML and Quality of life changes should have been made in alpha(I mean the whole fucking game was already made for you) and quality content patches should have been steadily rolled out. While each game did certain things right(ROA with housing, cooking, champions)(ND with specializations and armor[Still could have been better]) it wasn't even close to being anything substantial to improving the game.

    They both focused way too much on things they half-assed or scraped anyways and the biggest reason is that they both try to focus on pvp too much. Stop fucking added more pvp oriented content and add shit for the sheep who have something other than being farmed by a veteran/zerg alliance.
    -------------

    -New dawn spent litterally a year just to revamp their half assed first itteration of titles and even then it wasn't done right(Game altering spells should be locked behind a title like stone/iron skin, melee/archery haste with 4 skills locked behind a title (instead of 2) with only 2 active at a time). They neglected everything else really except for some QOL changes early on. Those sea towers R.I.P also still waiting for land towers. The idiotic decision to place the server in France when its a mostly American player base.The only saving grace was the title specialization which the game SORELY NEEDED, but wasn't implemented right. Following AV's footsteps to a T they don't do anything against people that exploited VCPS early on or exploits at all, and then SOON tm'd us. TERRRRRRRIBLE retention for new players with absolutely no new features or content added. THE GAME NEEDS SANDBOX CONTENT. The only thing we got was XML changes and broken promises.

    -Rise of agon did very well early on with XML and QOL changes along with some well done revamps to existing skills like cooking(best content change they did, although already existing content). Champions were also very fun and actually one of the few things besides pvp that required alot of players. However they fucked up with the scroll system and another one that eludes me that they completely removed, as well as removing RACIAL WARS which was a huge content and driving force behind pvp in the game for those not in clans and solo players. Unlike ND they were smart enough to host the server in the US. While the game did boast much faster leveling times it also made the game very boring and tedious when there was nothing left to do to improve your character and the dwindling population meant pvp is scarce. Many people didn't like having to farm resources for a house, but I enjoy this aspect as it gave me a goal that didn't revolve around "so I can pvp". The battle with pvp balance competely killed any new content updates, despite them  the new roadmap content being about pvp; the game still needed them. Far worse than New dawn, new players absolutely have no chance in this game as the driving force is sole, pvp. It came down to just the best players in an alliance killing all the less skilled players until they quit. Exploiters weren't dealt with quick enough or at all as with ND(a reoccuring theme for Darkfall) and internally strife littered this games development process. All we got once again was XML changes and broken promises. Once again where are the patches that add stuff like Archage farming? Yes it requires extensive work, but that is the reason you accepted our money and to revive the game. Now they are stuck in an ever back and forth pvp balance tweak quota or doing utterly insignificant things as a patch such as balancing pve. Just re-adjusting already in game content to make it look like they are doing something.

    Both teams are utter trash and it felt more like a cash grabbing scheme than a true attempt at reviving and improving the game. The only ones that had anything gainful from this, is Aventurine. Just relatively easy content concepts that were there to make you buy the game. Changing values on existing files you didn't program doesn't mean you developed the game.

    /rant. The best and mos flawed pvp mmo is dead as it rightfully deserves.

    JamesGoblinkitarad
    image
  • MaurgrimMaurgrim Member RarePosts: 1,152
    Darkfall games have been dead since release.
  • ScoliozScolioz Member UncommonPosts: 110
    edited November 2018
    Darkfall was shit which is why it failed...  I was around when that game was being built...  Everyone called it vaporware because it never came out when it was supposed too..  then when it finally did .. it was basically nothing more than a quake FPS with medieval textures
    CaffynatedMaurgrimHuntrezzGaladourn
  • Cybersig211Cybersig211 Member UncommonPosts: 128
    DF might not be dead, but it needs a huge playerbase to be fun.  Lets face it...the amount of people who want a try-hard pvp experience in a mmorpg with grind are few.  Original DF was almost an absolutely fantastic PVE sandbox completely overshadowed by mediocre pvp marred by rampant cheating.

    I wish both projects the best of luck, but having a few sieges a week with miles of dead pve land free to farm at will alone between just ruins it all.  I have to assume its the same 50 people that were around when DF1 died and was rebirthed as a turd that was the remake.

    Also by the time these dev teams get their versions where they want it, the game is just going to be so unbelievably dated its not going to draw in any new players.
  • TEKK3NTEKK3N Member RarePosts: 509
    edited November 2018
    I love Darkfall. I also enjoy both of these versions of it. The problem is, having two versions split the tiny community in half.
    I agree.
    Darkfall is one of the few PVP games that kind of worked in a MMO environment (the other is EVE).
    In my opinion there should be no PVP in MMOs, unless it has a meaning, like territory conquest in Darkfall for example.
    Any other type of PvP should be funneled to MOBAs.

    Problem with Darkfall (and now with EVE), is that the game gave too much freedom to single players who are completely free to behave like jerks, griefing newbies and carebears (which make the bulk of PvP players) , and killing the game population in the process.

    Games like Darkfall and EVE should be about Territory conquest, Guild vs Guild, Realm vs Realm.
    There should be serious restrictions on 1vs1 PvP because that's what ruin those games.

    PVE should be viable in those games (it used to be in EVE, not now), because the majority of PvPers are carebears and want to be able to PVE in a relatively safe environment, for then enjoy PvP in major events.
  • cheyanecheyane Member EpicPosts: 6,132
    TEKK3N said:
    I love Darkfall. I also enjoy both of these versions of it. The problem is, having two versions split the tiny community in half.
    I agree.
    Darkfall is one of the few PVP games that kind of worked in a MMO environment (the other is EVE).
    In my opinion there should be no PVP in MMOs, unless it has a meaning, like territory conquest in Darkfall for example.
    Any other type of PvP should be funneled to MOBAs.

    Problem with Darkfall (and now with EVE), is that the game gave too much freedom to single players who are completely free to behave like jerks, griefing newbies and carebears (which make the bulk of PvP players) , and killing the game population in the process.

    Games like Darkfall and EVE should be about Territory conquest, Guild vs Guild, Realm vs Realm.
    There should be serious restrictions on 1vs1 PvP because that's what ruin those games.

    PVE should be viable in those games (it used to be in EVE, not now), because the majority of PvPers are carebears and want to be able to PVE in a relatively safe environment, for then enjoy PvP in major events.
    This is what happens when there isn't a good balance between the predators and the prey. Inevitably once the prey disappear so do the predators. Predators are always too dumb though to realise that which is why you need balance and systems in place to ensure that the prey don't get wiped out or discouraged to the point that they leave.
    TEKK3NkitaradMaurgrimAmaranthar
    image
  • WalkinGlennWalkinGlenn Member UncommonPosts: 269
    Original Darkfall was such a disappointment for me. If you're gonna play a game like this and don't really care about the theme then you might as well play Rust. Community is toxic as fuck but there are plenty of low pop friendly servers too.

    Imho these two companies running the two Darkfall versions should just combine into their final form for 1 single verson..
  • TEKK3NTEKK3N Member RarePosts: 509
    cheyane said:
    TEKK3N said:

    This is what happens when there isn't a good balance between the predators and the prey. Inevitably once the prey disappear so do the predators. Predators are always too dumb though to realise that which is why you need balance and systems in place to ensure that the prey don't get wiped out or discouraged to the point that they leave.
    I completely agree.
    All my posts in various PvP games are usually along those lines.
    And usually I get attacked by the 'predators' who do not understand this simple concept.
    The problem is that games company listen to them, but they are a minority.

    EVE made this mistake.
    It used to be a balanced PvP game, now carebears are not able to enjoy the game as they used to, and they are now quitting the game.
    Kyleran
  • AragoniAragoni Member UncommonPosts: 344
    I followed the game from late 2005 (some might remember me from Forumfall). I remember how I ran around during beta for a whole day, being awestruck by how awesome the world looked. However, while the world was beautiful I just didn't enjoy the combat. People was just bunny hopping, and the sound effects were so terrible I turned them off. 

    I miss the Forumfall community pre-2009 though. I miss it so much. 
  • PhaserlightPhaserlight Member EpicPosts: 2,777
    TEKK3N said:
    I love Darkfall. I also enjoy both of these versions of it. The problem is, having two versions split the tiny community in half.
    I agree.
    Darkfall is one of the few PVP games that kind of worked in a MMO environment (the other is EVE).
    In my opinion there should be no PVP in MMOs, unless it has a meaning, like territory conquest in Darkfall for example.
    Any other type of PvP should be funneled to MOBAs.

    Problem with Darkfall (and now with EVE), is that the game gave too much freedom to single players who are completely free to behave like jerks, griefing newbies and carebears (which make the bulk of PvP players) , and killing the game population in the process.

    Games like Darkfall and EVE should be about Territory conquest, Guild vs Guild, Realm vs Realm.
    There should be serious restrictions on 1vs1 PvP because that's what ruin those games.

    PVE should be viable in those games (it used to be in EVE, not now), because the majority of PvPers are carebears and want to be able to PVE in a relatively safe environment, for then enjoy PvP in major events.
    VO has pretty tight PvP.  It's twitch-based, with Newtonian mechanics, so you can use maneuvers to your advantage even if you are outclassed in terms of equipment.

    "The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar
    Authored 139 missions in Vendetta Online

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