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Perhaps we can put away the torches and pitchforks

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  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 19,537
    I always have torches and pitchforks at the ready. It seems to be the codependent way the industry likes to operate. They don't do well without an accountability fire directly under their collective asses.
    Kylerant0nyd
    take back the hobby: https://www.reddit.com/r/patientgamers/

    traveller, interloper, anomaly
    ༼ つ ◕◕ ༽つ

  • WarEnsembleWarEnsemble Member UncommonPosts: 182
    For all of you that have anger stemming from being a Kickstarter backer, there is a lesson to be learned here. Stay off of Kickstarter. 
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 10,966
    edited November 2018
    TimEisen said:
    Gotham by gaslight. Kyleran said:
    At least for now.

    I was able to find a short, hopefully accurate written summary of the video for those of us with real lives and it presents the Apocalypse announcement in a better light. (Streaming needs to DIAF)

    As there will be rewards that can be earned in the BR which transfer to the main title, it could bring a horde of new gamers who are not currently backers to it at launch.

    If they keep it entirely F2P using it strictly as a drawing tool for new customers to the main game, then really no harm, no foul unless they try to turn it into a money maker of course.

    So I will stop heating up the tar and plucking feathers from the chickens.....for now

     :D 

    https://www.theaocdungeon.com/threads/ashes-of-creation-apocalypse-announced-31-10-full-stream-recap.307/
    What makes business sense and what makes backers happy are, most often, not one in the same. From AOC's POV they see a more profitable business path. From the backer's POV they feel they were sold one thing and got swerved. Both are right. Such is the story of crowd funded gaming. If anything this crowd funded thing has been a thorough lesson in marketing and business.

    Dear humans, most businesses will tell you anything to get your money, once they have it you are less important than the person they don't yet have. They will do whatever it takes to acquire more, especially since the first buyers tend to be the most loyal.
    But I think the most frustrating part is that they wiggle their fingers, use the Jedi mind trick, say "these plans have not changed" and a core group of diehards will actually believe it and evangelize all over the forums.


    I think a better approach would simply have been:
       
    We see an opportunity to market a BR version of Ashes.  This is good for us because it will (hopefully) give us an influx of cash.  It will take some resources, but given that influx of cash we should be able to off-set that by hiring more developers.  
    This is good for YOU because it means we will become more stable revenue-wise and we won't have to bleed you dry for every last cent you own!

    We know this can raise some concern about a change in focus, but ASHES is our DREAM game.  ASHES always has and always WILL be our focus.  The BR game is just a means to accomplish that. We will keep you looped in every step of the way and if our target dates should slip (which we DO NOT ANTICIPATE) we will pro-actively inform you up front.  As a matter of fact we pledge to give you an updated schedule each and every month to make sure that you have the latest information!





    KyleranMendelTimEisen

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  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 16,334
    edited November 2018
    This has been likely the toughest idea in game design for me to try and explain.For those that GET IT,,well grats,those that ,well likely me trying to explain it won't matter.

    A game>>>WORLD is suppose to be a place where immersion happens,we LIVE in that world even though make believe.The PLAYERS<<<keyword are SUPPOSE to make up what happens in that world with all it's Lore,immersion and systems.

    Where f2p ALWAYS fails is they create systems that have NOTHING to do with the game's immersion or lore or world.My opinion is that is crappy design,your just basically shoving ideas into a game that make NO SENSE.

    Point being,if you are going to have a Battle Royale,it SHOULD be part fo the game and it's world,there should be a plausible reason it is there and not just a system to keep players interested.
    This is the exact same topic/reason i do not call Wow a mmorpg.Instances,AUTOMATED systems like LFG dungeon finder<<stupid idea.Those are NOT plausible ideas and are ONLY there for reasons OUTSIDE the game's world,like trying to give players something they can do 24/7 even though it really has no plausible reasoning.

    Now if you can somehow incorporate the Battle Royale,perhaps some King of a land/nation is holding these games ONCE in a while,not 24/7.Then the rewards should MAKE sense and not some ideas that create OUTSIDE the game world interference.The obvious why this team does NOT get it,>>"carry over"why wouldn't something your character has earned NOT carry over,it should be of the SAME world,same reasoning.
    TimEisen

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 16,334
    edited November 2018
    For all of you that have anger stemming from being a Kickstarter backer, there is a lesson to be learned here. Stay off of Kickstarter. 
    100% agree,however that is a whole other topic revolving around human personalities.
    People by time they reach adulthood are hardwired,they have been programmed to think a certain way,such is life,everyone thinks they are wiser than the other person,only the objective minds can see all sides of the puzzle.

    Like the common person would look at his friend and say...you know i want to create this idea but i want other people to pay for it.The other friends laughs at him out loud LOL...He is like dude are you serious,hey give me a few million and i won't need to work anymore.
    TimEisen

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • koyutakotakoyutakota Member UncommonPosts: 5
    didnt this happen with repopulation as well with  
    fragmented being a side game for testing the mechanics for repopulation then they ended up making it a standalone game and ended up putting off repopulation to work on fragmented.

    why not just work on the main project first? but i guess when you get a massive amount of money for production of a game company's tend to add side projects to the mix because they can afford to and then they end up losing focus because now the main focus on one game is now split between two. its just gonna hurt them in the end.
  • TimEisenTimEisen ColumnistMember EpicPosts: 3,292
    TimEisen said:
    Gotham by gaslight. Kyleran said:
    At least for now.

    I was able to find a short, hopefully accurate written summary of the video for those of us with real lives and it presents the Apocalypse announcement in a better light. (Streaming needs to DIAF)

    As there will be rewards that can be earned in the BR which transfer to the main title, it could bring a horde of new gamers who are not currently backers to it at launch.

    If they keep it entirely F2P using it strictly as a drawing tool for new customers to the main game, then really no harm, no foul unless they try to turn it into a money maker of course.

    So I will stop heating up the tar and plucking feathers from the chickens.....for now

     :D 

    https://www.theaocdungeon.com/threads/ashes-of-creation-apocalypse-announced-31-10-full-stream-recap.307/
    What makes business sense and what makes backers happy are, most often, not one in the same. From AOC's POV they see a more profitable business path. From the backer's POV they feel they were sold one thing and got swerved. Both are right. Such is the story of crowd funded gaming. If anything this crowd funded thing has been a thorough lesson in marketing and business.

    Dear humans, most businesses will tell you anything to get your money, once they have it you are less important than the person they don't yet have. They will do whatever it takes to acquire more, especially since the first buyers tend to be the most loyal.
    But I think the most frustrating part is that they wiggle their fingers, use the Jedi mind trick, say "these plans have not changed" and a core group of diehards will actually believe it and evangelize all over the forums.


    I think a better approach would simply have been:
       
    We see an opportunity to market a BR version of Ashes.  This is good for us because it will (hopefully) give us an influx of cash.  It will take some resources, but given that influx of cash we should be able to off-set that by hiring more developers.  
    This is good for YOU because it means we will become more stable revenue-wise and we won't have to bleed you dry for every last cent you own!

    We know this can raise some concern about a change in focus, but ASHES is our DREAM game.  ASHES always has and always WILL be our focus.  The BR game is just a means to accomplish that. We will keep you looped in every step of the way and if our target dates should slip (which we DO NOT ANTICIPATE) we will pro-actively inform you up front.  As a matter of fact we pledge to give you an updated schedule each and every month to make sure that you have the latest information!





    Again this goes beyond KS games but the world thanks to social media and its terrifying. I never would have imagined so many within the human species were so lost they were happy to kneel and believe anything as long as it protected them from an uncomfortable reality. 
    MadFrenchie
    I used to role-play a Warrior Priest now I role-play a writer.
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 12,791
    TimEisen said:
    TimEisen said:
    Gotham by gaslight. Kyleran said:
    At least for now.

    I was able to find a short, hopefully accurate written summary of the video for those of us with real lives and it presents the Apocalypse announcement in a better light. (Streaming needs to DIAF)

    As there will be rewards that can be earned in the BR which transfer to the main title, it could bring a horde of new gamers who are not currently backers to it at launch.

    If they keep it entirely F2P using it strictly as a drawing tool for new customers to the main game, then really no harm, no foul unless they try to turn it into a money maker of course.

    So I will stop heating up the tar and plucking feathers from the chickens.....for now

     :D 

    https://www.theaocdungeon.com/threads/ashes-of-creation-apocalypse-announced-31-10-full-stream-recap.307/
    What makes business sense and what makes backers happy are, most often, not one in the same. From AOC's POV they see a more profitable business path. From the backer's POV they feel they were sold one thing and got swerved. Both are right. Such is the story of crowd funded gaming. If anything this crowd funded thing has been a thorough lesson in marketing and business.

    Dear humans, most businesses will tell you anything to get your money, once they have it you are less important than the person they don't yet have. They will do whatever it takes to acquire more, especially since the first buyers tend to be the most loyal.
    But I think the most frustrating part is that they wiggle their fingers, use the Jedi mind trick, say "these plans have not changed" and a core group of diehards will actually believe it and evangelize all over the forums.


    I think a better approach would simply have been:
       
    We see an opportunity to market a BR version of Ashes.  This is good for us because it will (hopefully) give us an influx of cash.  It will take some resources, but given that influx of cash we should be able to off-set that by hiring more developers.  
    This is good for YOU because it means we will become more stable revenue-wise and we won't have to bleed you dry for every last cent you own!

    We know this can raise some concern about a change in focus, but ASHES is our DREAM game.  ASHES always has and always WILL be our focus.  The BR game is just a means to accomplish that. We will keep you looped in every step of the way and if our target dates should slip (which we DO NOT ANTICIPATE) we will pro-actively inform you up front.  As a matter of fact we pledge to give you an updated schedule each and every month to make sure that you have the latest information!





    Again this goes beyond KS games but the world thanks to social media and its terrifying. I never would have imagined so many within the human species were so lost they were happy to kneel and believe anything as long as it protected them from an uncomfortable reality. 
    Hmm... the history of human religions should have already told you just how many are willing to do just that... still waiting for the meek to inherit the earth :)
    TimEisen
    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 12,791
    Wizardry said:
    This has been likely the toughest idea in game design for me to try and explain.For those that GET IT,,well grats,those that ,well likely me trying to explain it won't matter.

    A game>>>WORLD is suppose to be a place where immersion happens,we LIVE in that world even though make believe.The PLAYERS<<<keyword are SUPPOSE to make up what happens in that world with all it's Lore,immersion and systems.

    Where f2p ALWAYS fails is they create systems that have NOTHING to do with the game's immersion or lore or world.My opinion is that is crappy design,your just basically shoving ideas into a game that make NO SENSE.

    Point being,if you are going to have a Battle Royale,it SHOULD be part fo the game and it's world,there should be a plausible reason it is there and not just a system to keep players interested.
    This is the exact same topic/reason i do not call Wow a mmorpg.Instances,AUTOMATED systems like LFG dungeon finder<<stupid idea.Those are NOT plausible ideas and are ONLY there for reasons OUTSIDE the game's world,like trying to give players something they can do 24/7 even though it really has no plausible reasoning.

    Now if you can somehow incorporate the Battle Royale,perhaps some King of a land/nation is holding these games ONCE in a while,not 24/7.Then the rewards should MAKE sense and not some ideas that create OUTSIDE the game world interference.The obvious why this team does NOT get it,>>"carry over"why wouldn't something your character has earned NOT carry over,it should be of the SAME world,same reasoning.
    There should be a balance between world consistency/realism and convenience. You can go overboard in either direction and end up with an unplayable mess.


    Torval
    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED
  • Vexus_XVexus_X Member UncommonPosts: 57
    I just saw this and a video of their Battle Royale. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA

    HAHAHAHAHAHAA 

    Wow! I can only imagine how much of a kick in the balls it is for anyone who backed the original idea.

    You know the devs were sitting around and said, "Look, MMORPGs are a shot in the dark. We might make the best thing but it could also flop, hard. Everyone seems to like Fortnite; let's just you know, make our game like Fortnite. That's what people want, right? They want Fortnite!"

    This reminds me of when H1Z1 did the same thing; offering an entirely different main game and then scrapping it for battle royale.

    Here's the thing; it works. People bought it. They still play it. The only people who got screwed over were those who bought their initial hype and backed the project early. Everyone else who came along is saying, "Wow check out this new Battle Royale game!" and dives in.

    https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/640/962/d91.gif
  • Cybersig211Cybersig211 Member UncommonPosts: 128
    This is a double edged sword.  If the BR mode is wildly successful why bother with the MMO?  Sort of like how fortnite did with their pve mode (which at least existed to begin with)

    If the BR mode isnt successful, which i dont think it will, then they wont get the funding for the mmorpg and its sort of a proof of concept that the game isnt going to garner interest.

    My thoughts are this is a hail-mary throw by the devs.  Clearly they dont have the resources to go full hog on mmorpg, so they spent the last year or so making an easier to manage BR game, with the hopes that it will fund their mmorpg...but like i said...im certain either way will lead to the cancellation of the mmorpg.  Either it will be successful enough for them to not bother with the mmo, or a huge failure that will end up ruining it for the mmo.

    Pretty sure this last round of crowd funded mmorpgs is going to be the final nails in the mmorpg coffin.  

    tweedledumb99sausagemix
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