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Did WoW choose a PvP focused expansion because its less work to create content?

TheScavengerTheScavenger Member EpicPosts: 3,269
As seen by many sandbox MMOs, or games like BDO and upcoming AoC...producing content for PvPers is vastly easier and takes far less work and content for them than it does for PvErs. For example, if BDO removed PvP...what would be left? Grinding and some crafting stuff, but otherwise really limited content. Hence they know despite so many requesting PvE servers for BDO, that they'd then need to actually spend money and resources to make PvE content. When PvPers are much easier to keep happy...throw them in a battleground to fight over a keep or castle or some part of land and that is good enough for them.

With how negative BFA has been...the vast majority of negativity comes from...guess who? PvErs (not all, but most).

PvPers overall (not all of course) but mostly are enjoying warmode as their favorite feature in BFA. Warmode of course took little work for blizzard to make...pvp anywhere with it turn on/off. Even less work than BDO spent to make pvp content, since you can't conquer towns or land or anything in WoW. 

I see the vast majority of negativity comes from PvErs, where as PvPers in general are happy especially with warmode.

Which brings to topic title...

Blizzard chose horde vs alliance as a focus for pvp conflict. Many PvErs pre-release were already unhappy with this choice, with reasons such as "wow a repeat of horde vs alliance rehashed, fighting the legion was way more epic". Where as pvpers pre-release were super excited. But, there is a reason companies choose pvp focused MMOs/expansions

It really takes less work, time and money to spend on PvPers than it does for PVErs.

of course one exception to the rule is EVE Online...it started off VERY pvp centric (and still is), except it was pretty barebones and pve was nonexistent pretty much. It took time, updates and patches and a lot of money and it can easily be played as a pve MMO with pvp active. A big reason its a successful MMO because it makes most people happy, except those who truly hate anything PvP.

Other than EVE though...most PvP MMOs are so lackluster on content, and pvp games in general...that the developers know they can spend little on content and features because pvp is free content that the developers don't need to spend any money on. 

Which explains why the theme of BFA was chosen. Especially when in-game, a lot of it seems VERY forced and not...hmmm...not fluid at all. Not natural one bit. Like they really forced so many parts of the story to be PvP centric, instead of it making it feel natural it really does feel forced and like the whole theme was changed halfway through. Like blizzard had to meet a 2 year deadline and ran out of time to make PvE content, and the PvE content they had they had to rush out to release. So they had to forcefully change the expansion to be PvP based.

Which of course makes a lot of PvErs unhappy..but mostly PvPers like it cause it gives PvPers something to do and its much easier (and so much cheaper) for blizzard and every other company to cater to PvPers than it is for PvErs.

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MensurKalebGraysonmmolou

Comments

  • TheScavengerTheScavenger Member EpicPosts: 3,269
    edited October 28
    Also to end it off. Before you say this is an anti-pvp post, it mostly isn't

    I'm a pver that likes pvp. What does that mean?

    EVE Online has TONS of PvE, but you can be PvPed anywhere.

    I do NOT like doing the pvp, but I LIKE being pvped.

    And EVE Online is the single only PvP focused MMO that caters to that line of thinking, and why its so successful compared to every other sandbox PvP MMO. 

    So I actually do like pvp when it happens to me as I pve

    but its pretty obvious why blizzard chose their path. In-game it feels so forced and unnatural like it was changed halfway through in development. Their 2 year deadline expansion killed the quality of BFA. Just like when call of duty was forced to release every single year.

    Post edited by TheScavenger on
    mmolou

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  • t0nydt0nyd Member UncommonPosts: 459
    Imo, Tarren mill was the best PVP content blizzard has created and it was probably on accident.
    TheScavenger
  • TheScavengerTheScavenger Member EpicPosts: 3,269
    edited October 28
    For example some things that were forced to keep the pvp conflict alive

    Malfurian left alive as sylvanas walks away not bothering to make sure he dies. Obviously to keep the conflict alive by blizzard, but forced and not natural

    The plague in stormwind siege gets one hit KOed by magic ship by jaina, but suddenly her power is super weak. but she never dies and turns on godmode randomly but then weak randomly and then strong randomly, no consistency. 

    Sylvanas doesn't die in the throne room and no one charges at her to kill her, so they literally LET her escape. Oh and jaina stares stupidly with dead eyes like she is a lifeless zombie...that animation was TERRIBLE, but that is besides the point

    They don't kill any alliance hero

    They don't kill any horde hero

    This is to prolongue their forced conflict that isn't natural in any way what so ever

    It all feels so forced and unnatural and no one dies...and its not cause the other side wants to win, its cause blizzard wants to force prologue the conflict. Hence malfurian would be dead, sylvanas would have been at very least injured in the throne room, especially as she is face to face with Anduin he could have injured her easily

    Bad forced conflict, obviously changed halfway through to meet a 2 year deadline

    Call of duty ran into the same problem of lackluster games when they forced a release every single year



    Post edited by TheScavenger on
    mmolou

    My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB: 

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  • TheScavengerTheScavenger Member EpicPosts: 3,269
    t0nyd said:
    Imo, Tarren mill was the best PVP content blizzard has created and it was probably on accident.
    ah, yeah I'll give you that. Tarren mill was amazing. I don't think they meant it to be that good, cause they tried similar things after and they never really got it right like TM. But yeah that was a really fun...

    AND...more importantly...tarren mill was a very natural pvp experience. BFA is an unnatural pvp experience
    t0nydmmolou

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  • hikaru77hikaru77 Member UncommonPosts: 1,086
    PvP focused expansion?, Where?.  
    SBFord
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 6,901
    edited October 28
    Going by how much new PvE endgame content was added (Warfronts and Expeditions), Azerite Armor, and six new zones of quests, I don't feel like Blizzard skipped out on the content.  They just missed the mark with a large portion of it.
    Post edited by MadFrenchie on

    image
  • hallucigenocidehallucigenocide Member UncommonPosts: 889
    faction war themed expansion doesn't  impact pvp that much. the only reason they gave us warmode was so the pve folks that insisted on playing on pvp servers would quit the whining(my guess).
    Viper482

    I had fun once, it was terrible.

  • DrunkWolfDrunkWolf Member UncommonPosts: 1,427
    t0nyd said:
    Imo, Tarren mill was the best PVP content blizzard has created and it was probably on accident.
    wasnt Tarren Mill pvp just 2 giant blobs pushing back and forth between a alliance and horde town? I dont see how that is great pvp.
  • mcrippinsmcrippins Member RarePosts: 1,364
    Uh I don't see how BFA was PvP focused at all. Little has been done in regards to PvP changes that were actually effective or fun for that matter. I prefer PvP games in general, but I haven't been interested in WoW PvP since Vanilla/BC.
    Viper482
  • DijonCyanideDijonCyanide Member UncommonPosts: 581
    If not specifically for WoW, what  a great question for any game having to balance PvE & PvP.
  • PemminPemmin Member UncommonPosts: 548
    its a filler expansion like mists and warlords. the faction combat is just to create a down time between world ending events story wise. 
  • MensurMensur Member RarePosts: 725
    DrunkWolf said:
    t0nyd said:
    Imo, Tarren mill was the best PVP content blizzard has created and it was probably on accident.
    wasnt Tarren Mill pvp just 2 giant blobs pushing back and forth between a alliance and horde town? I dont see how that is great pvp.
    What is great pvp to you? missiles..battle field like crafts..PvP is different to people..and for me id rather have 2 sides clashing in open pvp than battle grounds and pvp missions..but then again that how I like my pvp-drink. 
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 31,004
    Mensur said:
    DrunkWolf said:
    t0nyd said:
    Imo, Tarren mill was the best PVP content blizzard has created and it was probably on accident.
    wasnt Tarren Mill pvp just 2 giant blobs pushing back and forth between a alliance and horde town? I dont see how that is great pvp.
    What is great pvp to you? missiles..battle field like crafts..PvP is different to people..and for me id rather have 2 sides clashing in open pvp than battle grounds and pvp missions..but then again that how I like my pvp-drink. 
    Something to actually win. Tauren Mills PVP was mostly useless, it didn't even award any sort of points, much less gear, gold or territory. 

    PVP for the "fun of it" isn't worthwhile to me if not to tied to something to win (progression) or lose. 


    DrunkWolf

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  • PemminPemmin Member UncommonPosts: 548
    Kyleran said:
    Mensur said:
    DrunkWolf said:
    t0nyd said:
    Imo, Tarren mill was the best PVP content blizzard has created and it was probably on accident.
    wasnt Tarren Mill pvp just 2 giant blobs pushing back and forth between a alliance and horde town? I dont see how that is great pvp.
    What is great pvp to you? missiles..battle field like crafts..PvP is different to people..and for me id rather have 2 sides clashing in open pvp than battle grounds and pvp missions..but then again that how I like my pvp-drink. 
    Something to actually win. Tauren Mills PVP was mostly useless, it didn't even award any sort of points, much less gear, gold or territory. 

    PVP for the "fun of it" isn't worthwhile to me if not to tied to something to win (progression) or lose. 


    it was community building...decent players built reputations and rivalries formed.


    also the ultimate goal for a game should be for people to be entertained and have fun......so if people are doing something for "the fun of it" mission accomplished and more power to them.
  • KalebGraysonKalebGrayson Member RarePosts: 346
    You might be on to something.  The story has been terribad imo.  I sometimes wonder if folks are leaving as much as we think they are just because the story is so bad.  Folks point to missing the point and failed systems, but I think it's also because of how bad the story is.  Silvanus got triggered and burned the tree?  The catapults reached from Darkshore?  The tree burned from flaming pitch?  Lets go back to meaningless faction squabbles after literally saving the universe from the burning legion?  There's just so much bad in BFA.
    Viper482
  • GutlardGutlard Member UncommonPosts: 416
    I think this is the 'light' expansion, and the next one will be the good 'heavy' expansion.

    This is what I've been reading, and it seems true so far.

    The good story I can only experience a few times on each side before I just zip thru to 120.

    I have 5 months left of my sub, so I have plenty of time to use this new AllTheThings mod and start having fun knocking those off.

    This started off heavy on RNG and Emissary stuff, but they're adding more IE's and Warfronts it sounds like, so maybe check back in after a few content patches?

    Gut Out!

    What, me worry?

  • Viper482Viper482 Member EpicPosts: 2,158
    Only the expansion is not mostly pvp, not even a little. They did the half-assed warmode and you can choose to do the crappy expeditions in pvp-mode, but no one does them anyway because they suck.  


    The expansion is just light on content, period. Legion was 300% the expansion this piece of shit is. 
    Make MMORPG's Great Again!
  • Viper482Viper482 Member EpicPosts: 2,158
    Gutlard said:
    I think this is the 'light' expansion, and the next one will be the good 'heavy' expansion.


    Only they will have lost a good chunk of their player base before the "real" expansion comes out. 
    Make MMORPG's Great Again!
  • KabulozoKabulozo Member UncommonPosts: 806
    The pvp is wow was always terrible, and in this expansion, I didn't see, through my brother who played it for a month, any significant pvp activity. The war mode is a joke.
  • GutlardGutlard Member UncommonPosts: 416
    Eventually they will get down to two skill buttons, right and left, then it will be like Rockem Sockem Robots...

    Gut Out!

    What, me worry?

  • btdtbtdt Member RarePosts: 404
    The ability to toggle PVP isn't a new thing in WoW.  What is different is that now when you toggle PVP on, you are sharded together with other PVPers.  Anyone not flagged for PVP will never see a PVP player and vice versa.  BFA took away PVP centric servers (PVP always on).  So in essence the PVErs gained more PVE servers and the PVPers lost ALL their servers.

    There hasn't been a whole heck of a lot of cheer from either side about it.  PVPers liked their PVP centric homeworld... now they get sharded with other servers.  PVErs cry that they can't care-bear PVP any more because they get sharded together with hard core PVPers, not just those from their own realm.  Role-players hate sharding all around, because as soon as they flag for PVP, they are no longer on a RP realm.

    And it's not a PVP expansion, it is an expansion in which the theme is a war between the Alliance and the Horde.  No different than a theme of demons, furbolgs, or any other insert villain here story.  You are no more PVPing in this expansion than any other.
    Kyleran
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