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Ashes of Creation - Battle Royale Highlights

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  • jahlonjahlon Member UncommonPosts: 316
    I guess. I've never seen a game developer basically make Fortnite combat, only to turn it into something else. Sure it will get tweaked but I don't think the circle strafing, magic grenade launcher, and hopping is going anywhere.



    The thing is this, Intrepid changed the development timeline and did Alpha 1 Phase 1 specifically to show people the future of combat.

    They've already shown (to a limited playerbase) the tab-targetting combat in A0.

    Now they are showing off action combat and the world. 

    In Q2 2019 we get send back into the traditional MMORPG world with action and tab for testing.


    In some ways, this is bad becuse people are only seeing a BR.  Truthfully, they might have wanted to let some of the creators play with the A0 a final time, but it wasn't ready for viewing.   It was like seeing your house under construction before the carpet is put in, the painting is done, etc.  Yeah you can envision what it will look like done, but its not visually appealing.



    Jahlon The Legendary Clicker
    Founder of the Paradox Gaming Network
    Paradox Gaming Network
    Paradox YouTube Channel 
  • FlyByKnightFlyByKnight Member EpicPosts: 3,967
    jahlon said:
    I guess. I've never seen a game developer basically make Fortnite combat, only to turn it into something else. Sure it will get tweaked but I don't think the circle strafing, magic grenade launcher, and hopping is going anywhere.



    The thing is this, Intrepid changed the development timeline and did Alpha 1 Phase 1 specifically to show people the future of combat.

    They've already shown (to a limited playerbase) the tab-targetting combat in A0.

    Now they are showing off action combat and the world. 

    In Q2 2019 we get send back into the traditional MMORPG world with action and tab for testing.


    In some ways, this is bad becuse people are only seeing a BR.  Truthfully, they might have wanted to let some of the creators play with the A0 a final time, but it wasn't ready for viewing.   It was like seeing your house under construction before the carpet is put in, the painting is done, etc.  Yeah you can envision what it will look like done, but its not visually appealing.



    How in the world are tab target & action combat to coexist in a PVP game? That's the real question.
    "As far as the forum code of conduct, I would think it's a bit outdated and in need of a refre *CLOSED*" 

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 19,769
    I'm curious to see how hybrid will go down too. It's either been clunky or one of the two is more favorable so anyone serious or hardcore (all pvp players and some pve players) will use it. If they pull off a cool hybrid system that would be remarkable.
    Fedora - A modern, free, and open source Operating System. https://getfedora.org/

    traveller, interloper, anomaly, iteration


  • RhoklawRhoklaw Member EpicPosts: 6,561
    This just in...

    Stock market prices for Ashes of Creation fell 25% today after they announced combat would follow a Battle Royale approach. Creating a nonsense approach to RPGs has caused some fans to wonder just how much late night partying the developers have been engaging in.

    Stay tuned for more at 11...

  • jahlonjahlon Member UncommonPosts: 316
    Torval said:
    I'm curious to see how hybrid will go down too. It's either been clunky or one of the two is more favorable so anyone serious or hardcore (all pvp players and some pve players) will use it. If they pull off a cool hybrid system that would be remarkable.

    You will have a set number of abilities on your bar.

    You will be able to choose up to 75% of one type (action or tab) and the other 25% must come from the other.

    So you could be 50/50  40/60  70/30  but you can't be more than 75/25.   
    Jahlon The Legendary Clicker
    Founder of the Paradox Gaming Network
    Paradox Gaming Network
    Paradox YouTube Channel 
  • parrotpholkparrotpholk Member EpicPosts: 4,602
    jahlon said:
    Torval said:
    I'm curious to see how hybrid will go down too. It's either been clunky or one of the two is more favorable so anyone serious or hardcore (all pvp players and some pve players) will use it. If they pull off a cool hybrid system that would be remarkable.

    You will have a set number of abilities on your bar.

    You will be able to choose up to 75% of one type (action or tab) and the other 25% must come from the other.

    So you could be 50/50  40/60  70/30  but you can't be more than 75/25.   
    Sorry but that sounds completely horrible.  Why even bother having both.  This is just a cumbersome sounding system.  Some are action, some are hybrid and you have to use both and so you end up having to remember to tab or not.  Pick a style and develop it well or try to master all and succeed at none.  But then we have never seen it in action so to speak since they waste time on a BR mode to test the MMO part instead of testing the MMO part of the MMO.........
  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 19,769
    jahlon said:
    Torval said:
    I'm curious to see how hybrid will go down too. It's either been clunky or one of the two is more favorable so anyone serious or hardcore (all pvp players and some pve players) will use it. If they pull off a cool hybrid system that would be remarkable.

    You will have a set number of abilities on your bar.

    You will be able to choose up to 75% of one type (action or tab) and the other 25% must come from the other.

    So you could be 50/50  40/60  70/30  but you can't be more than 75/25.   
    I've read that. I'm curious how that is supposed to work because movement, dodging, and cover are action attributes. If those are present then those TT skills are just dumbfire no-target spells. I mean action combat games have spells you can cast that don't require targeting or won't miss. ESO has skills like this, but it's still an action system because of the active dodging, stamina, cover, and positioning. Magic Missiles in D&D don't miss even if you try and dodge.

    So, I want to see what all that ratio stuff actually means. It's hard to understand their perspective on what those terms mean until I see something more concrete. There are too many ways that could be implemented, too many ways to interpret action and TT without context.
    Fedora - A modern, free, and open source Operating System. https://getfedora.org/

    traveller, interloper, anomaly, iteration


  • delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 5,883
    Mikeha said:
    I dont like this  at all. 

    What happened to the mmo that I was really looking forward to? :/ 


    I have to agree, 
    Nothing against the game but I didn't realize how much of a PvP this game will be.  I like PvE with a little PvP.

    I just assumed :(
  • GaladournGaladourn Member RarePosts: 1,802
    jahlon said:
    I guess. I've never seen a game developer basically make Fortnite combat, only to turn it into something else. Sure it will get tweaked but I don't think the circle strafing, magic grenade launcher, and hopping is going anywhere.



    The thing is this, Intrepid changed the development timeline and did Alpha 1 Phase 1 specifically to show people the future of combat.

    They've already shown (to a limited playerbase) the tab-targetting combat in A0.

    Now they are showing off action combat and the world. 

    In Q2 2019 we get send back into the traditional MMORPG world with action and tab for testing.


    In some ways, this is bad becuse people are only seeing a BR.  Truthfully, they might have wanted to let some of the creators play with the A0 a final time, but it wasn't ready for viewing.   It was like seeing your house under construction before the carpet is put in, the painting is done, etc.  Yeah you can envision what it will look like done, but its not visually appealing.



    How in the world are tab target & action combat to coexist in a PVP game? That's the real question.
    Neverwinter comes to mind....
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 34,346
    Mikeha said:
    I dont like this  at all. 

    What happened to the mmo that I was really looking forward to? :/ 


    I have to agree, 
    Nothing against the game but I didn't realize how much of a PvP this game will be.  I like PvE with a little PvP.

    I just assumed :(
    Given Steven's reported background (leader of a large ArcheAge clan and major whale in the game) it is very likely Ashes will be heavily influenced by the ArcheAge model.

    I believe Steven has also expressed admiration for CCP / EVE and other (in)famous PVP titles of the past.

    I just can't see this being a primary PVE game, more like the next iteration of AA without the crappy cash shop.
    delete5230WaanTorval

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 5,883
    Kyleran said:
    Mikeha said:
    I dont like this  at all. 

    What happened to the mmo that I was really looking forward to? :/ 


    I have to agree, 
    Nothing against the game but I didn't realize how much of a PvP this game will be.  I like PvE with a little PvP.

    I just assumed :(
    Given Steven's reported background (leader of a large ArcheAge clan and major whale in the game) it is very likely Ashes will be heavily influenced by the ArcheAge model.

    I believe Steven has also expressed admiration for CCP / EVE and other (in)famous PVP titles of the past.

    I just can't see this being a primary PVE game, more like the next iteration of AA without the crappy cash shop.
    I can't really say I was tricked, 
    I simply don't research into backgrounds or interviews. I stumbled onto Ashes of Creation about a year ago, and took the basic information at hand and ran with it. 

    -First video displaying Dungeon crawling. 
    -Second video displayed character classes.
    -The basic synapsis was players develop nodes and protect them from PvP.  

    It took several months and realizing "hay" all new videos demonstrate PvP….. That's when I realized this game will turn 100% PvP.  


    I may play Ashes of Creation depending on quality, hype, population and off timing of other releases. Why?.... because I'm a sheep too, were all sheep and play anything new. 
  • WaanWaan Member UncommonPosts: 96
    I still think the BR thing was a nice idea to test mechanics, but I'm getting the feeling a lot of people have the wrong impression of the game now. Maybe they should have named it differently, although they're obviously trying to target a larger audience this way.
  • lahnmirlahnmir Member EpicPosts: 2,883
    Torval said:
    jahlon said:
    Torval said:
    I'm curious to see how hybrid will go down too. It's either been clunky or one of the two is more favorable so anyone serious or hardcore (all pvp players and some pve players) will use it. If they pull off a cool hybrid system that would be remarkable.

    You will have a set number of abilities on your bar.

    You will be able to choose up to 75% of one type (action or tab) and the other 25% must come from the other.

    So you could be 50/50  40/60  70/30  but you can't be more than 75/25.   
    I've read that. I'm curious how that is supposed to work because movement, dodging, and cover are action attributes. If those are present then those TT skills are just dumbfire no-target spells. I mean action combat games have spells you can cast that don't require targeting or won't miss. ESO has skills like this, but it's still an action system because of the active dodging, stamina, cover, and positioning. Magic Missiles in D&D don't miss even if you try and dodge.

    So, I want to see what all that ratio stuff actually means. It's hard to understand their perspective on what those terms mean until I see something more concrete. There are too many ways that could be implemented, too many ways to interpret action and TT without context.
    A lot of MMOs already use this, just look at regular tab target games where you can cast an AOE over a certain area, that part is not tab based, or plunge down a totem, or a well, or a Blizzard.... Only now you will HAVE to use some of these, its nothing new though.

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir
    'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'

    Kyleran on yours sincerely 


    But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.

    Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
  • AngreeegamerAngreeegamer Member UncommonPosts: 51
    Kyleran said:

    I just can't see this being a primary PVE game, more like the next iteration of AA without the crappy cash shop.
    PvE is the catalyst for almost all the content and progression in this game. You need to PvE to develop civilizations and generate nearby content. Choices in how that content was created will affect nearby dungeons to populate them with a variety of raiding scenarios. Loot tables in these dungeons will drop critical crafting components needed to progress the server. While there will be open world dungeons and raid bosses, there will also be highly competitive 40 man instanced raids for the more hardcore raiders out there. 

    The sad thing is Intrepid was working on the foundation for all this (and successfully got nodes to generate dungeons with specific quest and loot tables based on cultural xp) but people wouldn't shut up about their placeholder combat and their "expert opinions" on UE4 server capabilities. So instead of developing PvE mechanics first, they made the mistake of listening to gamers who will never be satisfied. Now we have 7 months of pure large scale PvP testing ahead of us before we can get back to the interesting stuff.
    KyleranjahlonCazriel
  • JemAs666JemAs666 Member UncommonPosts: 251
    They stated on one of their live streams they used BR because it  literally took them no time to code and start testing combat.  I don't like BR shit either, but if it gets them data to move faster towards the MMO so be it, since a lot of people do like BR.  
    Cazriel
  • jahlonjahlon Member UncommonPosts: 316
    Kyleran said:

    Given Steven's reported background (leader of a large ArcheAge clan and major whale in the game) it is very likely Ashes will be heavily influenced by the ArcheAge model.

    I believe Steven has also expressed admiration for CCP / EVE and other (in)famous PVP titles of the past.

    I just can't see this being a primary PVE game, more like the next iteration of AA without the crappy cash shop.

    Sorry was on vacation and couldn't respond easily to these forums, but no Ashes is a "themebox" that has some PvE elements, some PvP elements, and some elements that are comprised of both.  
    Cazriel
    Jahlon The Legendary Clicker
    Founder of the Paradox Gaming Network
    Paradox Gaming Network
    Paradox YouTube Channel 
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 34,346
    jahlon said:k
    Kyleran said:

    Given Steven's reported background (leader of a large ArcheAge clan and major whale in the game) it is very likely Ashes will be heavily influenced by the ArcheAge model.

    I believe Steven has also expressed admiration for CCP / EVE and other (in)famous PVP titles of the past.

    I just can't see this being a primary PVE game, more like the next iteration of AA without the crappy cash shop.

    Sorry was on vacation and couldn't respond easily to these forums, but no Ashes is a "themebox" that has some PvE elements, some PvP elements, and some elements that are comprised of both.  
    Just like ArcheAge then, which was a mixture of both.

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • ScorchienScorchien Member LegendaryPosts: 6,884
    edited October 2018
    Kyleran said:
    jahlon said:k
    Kyleran said:

    Given Steven's reported background (leader of a large ArcheAge clan and major whale in the game) it is very likely Ashes will be heavily influenced by the ArcheAge model.

    I believe Steven has also expressed admiration for CCP / EVE and other (in)famous PVP titles of the past.

    I just can't see this being a primary PVE game, more like the next iteration of AA without the crappy cash shop.

    Sorry was on vacation and couldn't respond easily to these forums, but no Ashes is a "themebox" that has some PvE elements, some PvP elements, and some elements that are comprised of both.  
    Just like ArcheAge then, which was a mixture of both.
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 34,346
    Scorchien said:
    Kyleran said:
    jahlon said:k
    Kyleran said:

    Given Steven's reported background (leader of a large ArcheAge clan and major whale in the game) it is very likely Ashes will be heavily influenced by the ArcheAge model.

    I believe Steven has also expressed admiration for CCP / EVE and other (in)famous PVP titles of the past.

    I just can't see this being a primary PVE game, more like the next iteration of AA without the crappy cash shop.

    Sorry was on vacation and couldn't respond easily to these forums, but no Ashes is a "themebox" that has some PvE elements, some PvP elements, and some elements that are comprised of both.  
    Just like ArcheAge then, which was a mixture of both.
    as is ESO also
    A little different, PVP in ESO is totally avoidable,  not really true in AA.

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • ScorchienScorchien Member LegendaryPosts: 6,884
    Kyleran said:
    Scorchien said:
    Kyleran said:
    jahlon said:k
    Kyleran said:

    Given Steven's reported background (leader of a large ArcheAge clan and major whale in the game) it is very likely Ashes will be heavily influenced by the ArcheAge model.

    I believe Steven has also expressed admiration for CCP / EVE and other (in)famous PVP titles of the past.

    I just can't see this being a primary PVE game, more like the next iteration of AA without the crappy cash shop.

    Sorry was on vacation and couldn't respond easily to these forums, but no Ashes is a "themebox" that has some PvE elements, some PvP elements, and some elements that are comprised of both.  
    Just like ArcheAge then, which was a mixture of both.
    as is ESO also
    A little different, PVP in ESO is totally avoidable,  not really true in AA.
    Im sorry i was referencing that it is a hybrid Tab Target system ..
  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 19,769
    Tab targeting is a misnomer, in my opinion, for a system that uses math to calculate hit, damage, healing, and the entire combat sequence. Typically movement and Line of Sight has little to no influence on the combat formula and outcome. Attacks can hit around corners and out of range if the skill sequence was initiated in range, and so on. There aren't active movement defenses a player or NPC can make. Those are decided by combat math. It's more accurate to call this system die roll (or RNG) based, like PnP. EQ, EQ2, LotRO, WoW, DAoC are the examples

    Action combat has active dodging and reticule based targeting for hit purposes. Some systems do allow the player to tab through targets, but that only selects and highlights a target. The reticule must be on the target to hit. Neverwinter, Tera, and ESO are examples.

    There can be surefire skills in an action combat system. The D&D magic missile is an example. The missile would still need to be targeted with the reticule even if you could select the target by tabbing. Tabbing to a target in itself isn't sufficient to complete the target.

    So, after thinking about it for a while the game would need to have active dodging, reticule based skill execution, and dumb fire skills (through tab or reticule selection) that will hit a select target based on calculations not reticule.

    I'm interested in seeing how this plays out. I did like the action combat even if the BR format sucked.
    Fedora - A modern, free, and open source Operating System. https://getfedora.org/

    traveller, interloper, anomaly, iteration


  • ScorchienScorchien Member LegendaryPosts: 6,884
    Torval said:
    Tab targeting is a misnomer, in my opinion, for a system that uses math to calculate hit, damage, healing, and the entire combat sequence. Typically movement and Line of Sight has little to no influence on the combat formula and outcome. Attacks can hit around corners and out of range if the skill sequence was initiated in range, and so on. There aren't active movement defenses a player or NPC can make. Those are decided by combat math. It's more accurate to call this system die roll (or RNG) based, like PnP. EQ, EQ2, LotRO, WoW, DAoC are the examples

    Action combat has active dodging and reticule based targeting for hit purposes. Some systems do allow the player to tab through targets, but that only selects and highlights a target. The reticule must be on the target to hit. Neverwinter, Tera, and ESO are examples.

    There can be surefire skills in an action combat system. The D&D magic missile is an example. The missile would still need to be targeted with the reticule even if you could select the target by tabbing. Tabbing to a target in itself isn't sufficient to complete the target.

    So, after thinking about it for a while the game would need to have active dodging, reticule based skill execution, and dumb fire skills (through tab or reticule selection) that will hit a select target based on calculations not reticule.

    I'm interested in seeing how this plays out. I did like the action combat even if the BR format sucked.
    Altho ESO did improve the targeting recently you can still Tab target  thru ... If there are 2 mobs or players one standing directly in front of the other you can TAb the rear target and hit it with single target bow and spells skills , Without hitting the target in front of it , as long as you reticule is in the white border , this is an improvement for sure , and it has it uses in PVE (limited) like taking out a healer ..I actually just went into game and tested to make sure .. And it does work
    Torval
  • PoliticaldadPoliticaldad Member UncommonPosts: 122
    I viewed the last test session as what it was.... a Stress Test.
    I put few thoughts into the large glowing items that spewed out of the big glowing chest other than to say to myself, we're testing items, functionality, server stability and if something doesn't work they will know and can look at other implementations. 
    The bunny hopping is what you do in the silly BR games ( am not a fan either) , but if the mode helps the game get moving then great.
    If the game strays too far from what I donated to, meh ... no worries, I'll still get my monies worth out of it over time. 

  • CazrielCazriel Member UncommonPosts: 419
    On the PvP front, there's no way to know how successful the PK suppression mechanics will be in the game.  The Ashes Wiki has quite a long list of various consequences of PvP, which the game is not really encouraging outside of sieges or battlegrounds or caravans (moving PvP zone). 

    The unfortunate thing is that this could most certainly change.  PvPers tend to be loud and relentless and devs have the unfortunate characteristic of listening to the most persistent voices.  So from a PvE/PvP balanced game with a heavy disincentive for PKing, the game could easily shift to a PvP focused, semi-OW PvP game.  

    They already changed their testing schedule to satisfy PvPers who were beginning to trash the game.

    I'm not really concerned about the Battle Royale nature of the test this past weekend, as I think it's abundantly clear that this is the easiest mode for a developer to throw up and they were clear about the back end testing they were doing. 

    But if Ashes is not carefully balanced between PvE and PvP, the game will become another PvP whale-driven wasteland. 
    delete5230
  • MightyUncleanMightyUnclean Member EpicPosts: 2,616
    Cazriel said:
    On the PvP front, there's no way to know how successful the PK suppression mechanics will be in the game.  The Ashes Wiki has quite a long list of various consequences of PvP, which the game is not really encouraging outside of sieges or battlegrounds or caravans (moving PvP zone). 

    The unfortunate thing is that this could most certainly change.  PvPers tend to be loud and relentless and devs have the unfortunate characteristic of listening to the most persistent voices.  So from a PvE/PvP balanced game with a heavy disincentive for PKing, the game could easily shift to a PvP focused, semi-OW PvP game.  

    They already changed their testing schedule to satisfy PvPers who were beginning to trash the game.

    I'm not really concerned about the Battle Royale nature of the test this past weekend, as I think it's abundantly clear that this is the easiest mode for a developer to throw up and they were clear about the back end testing they were doing. 

    But if Ashes is not carefully balanced between PvE and PvP, the game will become another PvP whale-driven wasteland. 
    Why?  Why do developers keep listening to PvP players when they are such a minority in MMO games?  It's not like their being a vocal but small minority is a new phenomenon in MMOs.  The temptation to go with a simpler, PvP-oriented game versus dumping a ton of resources into PvE content must be huge.
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