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About Those Ship Prices....

2

Comments

  • Viper482Viper482 Member EpicPosts: 3,234
    Babuinix said:
    If this #concerns you should definitely stay away from the game.

    For the record, a new player can fly any ship without having to buy/grind them, you can board other players, you can steal ships or you can simply serve as crewman. Depending on your social network and overall diplomatic skills the limits are thin.

    The benefits of being an actual player and not a vehicle, having ships fully modelled inside out and a game made with space legs in mind from the get go. B)
    Would you white knights just knock off the BS already? There is no reality in this dimension in which this game is not pay to win. Don't tell me people are paying thousands of dollars of REAL money for ships that "ANYONE" can fly in game for free. You are either ignorant, lying, or not telling the whole story (same as lying in my book). This game is bad for the business, period. 

    I backed this game in the beginning and it has turned into a money grabbing fiasco. I hope it fails miserably and I hope all of you spending ridiculous money on pixels lose everything you put into it. You deserve nothing less. I only hope a lesson is learned from this and it never happens again. 
    BabuinixEpicJohnsonDomain33X
    Make MMORPG's Great Again!
  • KefoKefo Member EpicPosts: 4,229
    MaxBacon said:
    Kefo said:
    Imagine the fun when the person who owns the gigantic ship doesn’t log on for whatever the org is doing, or they quit the game, or they just decide “fuck it, the ship is mine now”. The tears will be amazing
    Orgs have fleets, so if they want capitals to e for guilds to work for, then it rather implies there needs to be a system that is beyond just X person owns only X person can spawn it. Some info on that:
    We're definitely looking at some more expanded features and just gameplay for how organisations will interact with each other. I know for a long time we've been building that, at least some way that you can share ships within your organisation.

    The exact details on how that will structure out is still being sorted and whether or not you'll have an organisation coffer or the organisation saying "Hey we need to buy an Idris everyone just chip into this pool" and that goes through, then be a little bit in the air because at a certain point someone needs to own something so it may just default to ownership of the organisation leader but the ability to share out and allow others to use your ships in a big group is definitely a big thing we want to deliver.
    That was a lot of quoted text for no gain.

    They have no clue right now but it might default to the org leader (who can stop playing, or fuck off with all the ships like I said) so thanks for agreeing with me?
    NorseGod
  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member EpicPosts: 7,278
    Kefo said:
    That was a lot of quoted text for no gain.

    They have no clue right now but it might default to the org leader (who can stop playing, or fuck off with all the ships like I said) so thanks for agreeing with me?
    They have ideas and what they may or may not do, they won't confirm anything because the Guild System is not actively in dev yet, we'll see once the design starts translating into implementation.

    But that is only logical, on times members have to contribute to, on MMO's this can be be buying or upgrading a guild hall and stuff like that, it's always owned by the guild owner.

    Now the potential guild leads can just "run with member contributions" like true politicians is deff to happen, but this is both a bad and a good thing, making the reputation a guild has matter. Now things as if guild lead become inactive, well, we'll have to see, starting with if there'll be co-owners for example.

  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 10,235
    Kefo said:
    Imagine the fun when the person who owns the gigantic ship doesn’t log on for whatever the org is doing, or they quit the game, or they just decide “fuck it, the ship is mine now”. The tears will be amazing
    Standard MMO guild drama. Replace "ship" with "guild hall gold upkeep" or something similar. 

    This happens for decades.


    Have fun
  • KellerKeller Member UncommonPosts: 602
    Erillion said:
    Kefo said:
    Imagine the fun when the person who owns the gigantic ship doesn’t log on for whatever the org is doing, or they quit the game, or they just decide “fuck it, the ship is mine now”. The tears will be amazing
    Standard MMO guild drama. Replace "ship" with "guild hall gold upkeep" or something similar. 

    This happens for decades.


    Have fun
    And I thought CIG had revolutionary ideas for the industry? Yet the usual drama will be implented?
    NorseGod
  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member EpicPosts: 7,278
    Erillion said:
    Kefo said:
    Imagine the fun when the person who owns the gigantic ship doesn’t log on for whatever the org is doing, or they quit the game, or they just decide “fuck it, the ship is mine now”. The tears will be amazing
    Standard MMO guild drama. Replace "ship" with "guild hall gold upkeep" or something similar. 

    This happens for decades.


    Have fun
    Yup I was on a Guild where peeps were putting SO MUCH effort to get the best Guild Hall with stations and all we all could use that eases up life, then the guild lead kicks everyone out, and sells the upgraded guild FOR REAL CASH  :|

    I'm still salty today.
  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member EpicPosts: 7,278
    edited October 2018
    Keller said:
    And I thought CIG had revolutionary ideas for the industry? Yet the usual drama will be implented?
    Well, there are ideas you can rethink, there are others you can't.

    It's like "how to stop gold sellers", they won't be stopped unless you put your game mechanics, especially the trade, in lockdown. Then you gotta ask if that major impact is worth it or just assume that the problem will be there either way and that you can mitigate it.
  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 10,235
    Viper482 said:
    Would you white knights just knock off the BS already? There is no reality in this dimension in which this game is not pay to win. Don't tell me people are paying thousands of dollars of REAL money for ships that "ANYONE" can fly in game for free. You are either ignorant, lying, or not telling the whole story (same as lying in my book). This game is bad for the business, period. 

    I backed this game in the beginning and it has turned into a money grabbing fiasco. I hope it fails miserably and I hope all of you spending ridiculous money on pixels lose everything you put into it. You deserve nothing less. I only hope a lesson is learned from this and it never happens again. 
    A  "Pay to win" thread of hundreds of pages and tenthousands of posts on the official SC forum suggests that there are other opinions beside your own ;-)

    I hope it will be a great success.

    I have to disappoint you. I did not spend "ridiculous" amounts of money on pixels. I have one account. I have one ship. I already got years worth of fun out of it. Well worth the price. So I cannot "lose everything I put into it".

    I already "won", having fun, having found new friends, enjoying my time in Star Citizen. And in one thing you are right: "I deserve nothing less" than that ;-)  

    And i very much hope it happens again.


    Have fun
    PlonkyBabuinixEpicJohnson
  • rpmcmurphyrpmcmurphy Member EpicPosts: 3,497
    edited October 2018
    So if you went to a restaurant, ordered and paid for your meal and the waiter stands there telling jokes and making you laugh, providing you with good old fashioned fun but then proceeds to inform you that your meal cannot be served because the chef is in hospital for food poisoning - have you won?

    I think most people would say that getting the item they paid for is the minimum requirement for a "win", anything that happens until you get that item is irrelevant. If people are somehow convincing themselves (read: the good lord Christ Roberts told them to) that having fun while they wait for their purchase is enough then they are what's commonly known as suckers :)

    [Deleted User]BabuinixEpicJohnsonDomain33X
  • KefoKefo Member EpicPosts: 4,229
    Erillion said:
    Kefo said:
    Imagine the fun when the person who owns the gigantic ship doesn’t log on for whatever the org is doing, or they quit the game, or they just decide “fuck it, the ship is mine now”. The tears will be amazing
    Standard MMO guild drama. Replace "ship" with "guild hall gold upkeep" or something similar. 

    This happens for decades.


    Have fun
    Except replace in game gold with real life money and the drama escalated to new hilarious levels
    MaxBacon
  • TheocritusTheocritus Member EpicPosts: 7,864
    What they were charging for ships in alpha was the biggest turnoff for me...To me it was just absurd....I cant believe players would actually pay that much money for a ship.
  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 10,235
    Kefo said:
    Erillion said:
    Kefo said:
    Imagine the fun when the person who owns the gigantic ship doesn’t log on for whatever the org is doing, or they quit the game, or they just decide “fuck it, the ship is mine now”. The tears will be amazing
    Standard MMO guild drama. Replace "ship" with "guild hall gold upkeep" or something similar. 

    This happens for decades.


    Have fun
    Except replace in game gold with real life money and the drama escalated to new hilarious levels
    As we were talking about the amount of playtime needed to buy large ships in game with in game money .... what has real life money got to do with that ?

    You seem to confuse ships paid with in game money with ships that players got with their crowdfunding pledge package.


    Have fun
  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 10,235
    So if you went to a restaurant, ordered and paid for your meal and the waiter stands there telling jokes and making you laugh, providing you with good old fashioned fun but then proceeds to inform you that your meal cannot be served because the chef is in hospital for food poisoning - have you won?

    I think most people would say that getting the item they paid for is the minimum requirement for a "win", anything that happens until you get that item is irrelevant. If people are somehow convincing themselves (read: the good lord Christ Roberts told them to) that having fun while they wait for their purchase is enough then they are what's commonly known as suckers :)

    If I get a coupon for the meal, to be consumed when the chef is back out of hospital ... yes, this would have been a night to remember. Much more interesting, much more fun  than just eating at a restaurant. I will have to get something to eat in the meantime, but there are thousands of other places to get THAT. So ... yes, in my opinion i would have "won".

    If you consider people having fun "suckers", then i pity you. Your existence must be very bleak.


    Have fun
    mmolou
  • BabuinixBabuinix Member EpicPosts: 3,298
    edited October 2018
    Viper482 said:
    Would you white knights just knock off the BS already? There is no reality in this dimension in which this game is not pay to win. Don't tell me people are paying thousands of dollars of REAL money for ships that "ANYONE" can fly in game for free. You are either ignorant, lying, or not telling the whole story (same as lying in my book). This game is bad for the business, period. 

    I backed this game in the beginning and it has turned into a money grabbing fiasco. I hope it fails miserably and I hope all of you spending ridiculous money on pixels lose everything you put into it. You deserve nothing less. I only hope a lesson is learned from this and it never happens again. 
    You should definitely stay away from the game.
    So do people who still think crowdfunding = pre-ordering  :D
    rpmcmurphyXarko
  • KefoKefo Member EpicPosts: 4,229
    Erillion said:
    Kefo said:
    Erillion said:
    Kefo said:
    Imagine the fun when the person who owns the gigantic ship doesn’t log on for whatever the org is doing, or they quit the game, or they just decide “fuck it, the ship is mine now”. The tears will be amazing
    Standard MMO guild drama. Replace "ship" with "guild hall gold upkeep" or something similar. 

    This happens for decades.


    Have fun
    Except replace in game gold with real life money and the drama escalated to new hilarious levels
    As we were talking about the amount of playtime needed to buy large ships in game with in game money .... what has real life money got to do with that ?

    You seem to confuse ships paid with in game money with ships that players got with their crowdfunding pledge package.


    Have fun
    And you seem to think that Roberts is going to stop his cash cow just because he’s a super kind guy. I hate to break it to you but chances are they will continue to allow real money sales of big ships and orgs will have people chip in money.
  • rpmcmurphyrpmcmurphy Member EpicPosts: 3,497
    Erillion said:
    If you consider people having fun "suckers", then i pity you. Your existence must be very bleak.

    If you consider paying hundreds of dollars and having fun in a pre-alpha enough to justify the lack of delivery of the final game then I feel very sorry for you. Justifying things like that must be a very sad affliction.

    Have fun (with your final product, nothing less)
  • rpmcmurphyrpmcmurphy Member EpicPosts: 3,497
    Kefo said:
    Erillion said:
    Kefo said:
    Erillion said:
    Kefo said:
    Imagine the fun when the person who owns the gigantic ship doesn’t log on for whatever the org is doing, or they quit the game, or they just decide “fuck it, the ship is mine now”. The tears will be amazing
    Standard MMO guild drama. Replace "ship" with "guild hall gold upkeep" or something similar. 

    This happens for decades.


    Have fun
    Except replace in game gold with real life money and the drama escalated to new hilarious levels
    As we were talking about the amount of playtime needed to buy large ships in game with in game money .... what has real life money got to do with that ?

    You seem to confuse ships paid with in game money with ships that players got with their crowdfunding pledge package.


    Have fun
    And you seem to think that Roberts is going to stop his cash cow just because he’s a super kind guy. I hate to break it to you but chances are they will continue to allow real money sales of big ships and orgs will have people chip in money.

    Ship packs out of the wazoo. We all know they are coming.
  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 10,235
    Kefo said:
    And you seem to think that Roberts is going to stop his cash cow just because he’s a super kind guy. I hate to break it to you but chances are they will continue to allow real money sales of big ships and orgs will have people chip in money.
    We will see ;-)  Time will tell.


    Have fun
  • marcjt20marcjt20 Member UncommonPosts: 74
    Viper482 said:
    Babuinix said:
    If this #concerns you should definitely stay away from the game.

    For the record, a new player can fly any ship without having to buy/grind them, you can board other players, you can steal ships or you can simply serve as crewman. Depending on your social network and overall diplomatic skills the limits are thin.

    The benefits of being an actual player and not a vehicle, having ships fully modelled inside out and a game made with space legs in mind from the get go. B)
    Would you white knights just knock off the BS already? There is no reality in this dimension in which this game is not pay to win. Don't tell me people are paying thousands of dollars of REAL money for ships that "ANYONE" can fly in game for free. You are either ignorant, lying, or not telling the whole story (same as lying in my book). This game is bad for the business, period. 

    I backed this game in the beginning and it has turned into a money grabbing fiasco. I hope it fails miserably and I hope all of you spending ridiculous money on pixels lose everything you put into it. You deserve nothing less. I only hope a lesson is learned from this and it never happens again. 
    The ocean called. it wants it's salt back
    ErillionBabuinixEpicJohnson
  • KefoKefo Member EpicPosts: 4,229
    Erillion said:
    Kefo said:
    And you seem to think that Roberts is going to stop his cash cow just because he’s a super kind guy. I hate to break it to you but chances are they will continue to allow real money sales of big ships and orgs will have people chip in money.
    We will see ;-)  Time will tell.


    Have fun
    He monetizes scope creep so I’m saying the odds are in favour of it happening. 
    NorseGod
  • rodarinrodarin Member EpicPosts: 2,588
    I always love when these sort of things devolve into the fanboys citing shit they think,hope,wish actually happens if this thing ever becomes reality. When nothing they say exists or has been shown to even be possible.

    I also love how its based off the 'fact' that even though the thing is totally playable and is as good as anything released its still constantly being 'improved' (by scrapping years worth of work to re-do a core feature of the game). And of course the spin on that will be 'mmos never stop being developed'. Thus why Roberts and co have been able to fleece 200 million (allegedly) and counting from people who have more faith than brains.

    This con (citizancon) was so lackluster it barely registered. Even the made for con movies failed to impress. It wasnt even really more of the same. It was mostly more ships (always to be expected) but little in the way of showing much additions or improvements (beyond what they already announced with the flight re-do) the numbers bear that out. Using their make believe spread sheet. they 'raised' almost 1.5 million last convention and the 7 day period around it. in 2016 they 'raised' over 4 million (that was for a 12 day period as the hype lasted much) they also followed up 2016 with a Nov that saw the anniversary sale and other gimmick sales that raked in another 6+ million.

    But going back and looking at the 'telethon' months of Oct and Nov and looking at money raised (according to their numbers) you can see theyre falling. Nov will be the biggest sign I suppose. But if they continue to be dismal they may pull out even more stops to boost them.

    2014 Oct 3.9 million Nov 6.1 million
    2015 Oct 4.25 million Nov 5.36 million
    2016 Oct 5.2 million Nov 7.75 million
    2017 Oct 3,25 million Nov 6 million (pretty large drop offs)
    2018 Oct ??? currently ~2 million

    Thats with triple the 'citizens' they claimed to have had 4 years ago and about 12 versions later. Of course the 'sales' should drop off eventually I mean they have sold anything they can think of up to this point. So not introducing sales of oxygen this year probably hurt them somewhat.

    The only claim to fame this whole fiasco has is the (alleged) money they have raised. The actual 'development' of whatever they want to call a game is not even in the same universe when it comes to 'bragging'. Even the fanboys constantly go back to the numbers and money raised (to their detriment). But that is really the only argument they have because as I have said for years (and as the money somehow keeps rolling in) if the money stopped so would any hope for anything to get released. As long as the money keeps flowing the dream is always alive. But anyone with common sense knows it isnt. because even after nearly 200 million what is there? Nothing even close to what Roberts 'sold' 6 or 7 years ago. And there isnt even a close to finished portion of any of the 2 or 3 or whatever number of aspect of the 'game'. Unless they want to claim 'star marine' is a finished product which would definitely be a stretch. But considering they canceled it (without telling anyone) years ago I guess anything is better than nothing.

    Keep the dream alive boys, if the numbers continue to plummet (according to their own auditing or fanboy tracking) then you guys wont even have that to cite as some sort of Holy Grail. If they start getting 70,60,50% of what they 'raised' in previous years what will that mean? Since its always been 'more money more people' 'more people faster development' I guess less money is less people and the glacial rate this thing is moving will slow down even more.

    But like I said always glad to see these guys twist what can actually be seen (even if most of its edited nonsense) and make it more about the dream and possibilities and what is actually going to be what will eventually exist.
    BabuinixNorseGod
  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 10,235
    Maybe at some point Rodarin realizes that raising even one million is more than most crowdfunding projects achieve in their lifetime. Let alone getting a million in a day, like SC did repeatedly. And about that "allegedly" .... do. you, Rodarin, think those hundreds of SC employees did "allegedly" got paid for their work? Or do you think they all worked for free over years? 

    Have fun 
    Babuinix
  • rodarinrodarin Member EpicPosts: 2,588
    and there you go proving my point. It isnt about the money. What you continually fail to realize that despite this overwhelming 'handicap' of not being able to raise anywhere near the money Roberts and Co (allegedly) have many many crowdfunded games have actually released a product the developers of those projects deemed release and retail worthy.

    Like I have said for the past couple years. its a great cottage industry for the guys reaping the benefits of being on paid welfare from people who dream something will ever get released. While the employees are more than likely collecting some sort of pay checks, theyre still not getting anywhere near the financial windfall Roberts and his upper echelon are if the numbers are even close to accurate.

    And lets also not forget that pesky lawsuit which is most definitely being paid for with backer funds. Win lose or draw how much is that costing development finances?

    Thats why 99% of the people even remotely interested in this anymore would like to see some sort of financials and see just how much money is going to actual development of the game itself and how much is being spent of stuff that isnt (directly) advancing this project into something that could be deemed retail worthy.

    So why is it this thing has (allegedly) raised ALL this money yet there isnt anything really beyond a glorified tech demo test bed to show for it? The excuses of having to rebuild engines and lack or employees are now moot, they also have leeched onto Amazon and their tech which without we would still be talking about 6 and 8 person instances. And even with that tech I doubt they will get the numbers they continue to claim, especially with any sort of close to acceptable performance.

    Which is my point every time you guys talk about the dream you conveniently forget all the underlying issues still going on. but because the project is light years away from anything worth arguing about in terms of actual 'gameplay' issues theyre not even on the radar. But those include but arent limited to pay to win (although that is forefront in this topic more or less), performance issues, economy, 'jobs'/classes,  interaction with environment, NPC issues, PvP 'balance' (which no game has ever solved), anything related to griefing, PERSISTENCE and the list could go on and on. While theyre touched on here and there it really is extremely premature to even discuss them until they have something released even worth talking about. Thats why I say I love how these discussions devolve into talks like this game actually has a core 'game' in place let alone something that could be called a release version of a game at all.
    NorseGodBabuinixEpicJohnson
  • BabuinixBabuinix Member EpicPosts: 3,298
    Yeah we know moon landing was fake, Elvis is not dead and Star Citizen will collapse in 90 days top.  B) 
  • ArglebargleArglebargle Member RarePosts: 2,920
    Babuinix said:
    Yeah we know moon landing was fake, Elvis is not dead and Star Citizen will collapse in 90 days top.  B) 
    We know how Strike Commander was three years late, with over a million man hours of work wasted.  We know that Digital Anvil folded after years of work, with no in-house game ever released.   We know that Chris Roberts will move the goalposts with little regard for complexity or difficulty of deployment.   

    Some of his valiant defenders are also good at that goalpost thing.....
    Kefo

    If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.

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