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Map voting announced

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  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 11,054
    Scot said:
    How are people going to decide which map is the best one to vote for anyways? Will they reveal detailed information about the map, like biomes and resource locations and existing kingdom borders? 

    Or is it just going to be geographic concept art, where you pick the land mass that looks the prettiest?
    https://chroniclesofelyria.com/blog/28843/Adventure-Completion-From-Pre-to-Alpha#image-2
    https://chroniclesofelyria.com/blog/28843/Adventure-Completion-From-Pre-to-Alpha#image-3

    So my fundamental issue with this is the fact that once again, it's giving people that pay a lot of money a ridiculous percent of the vote.   If you are just a commoner with the basic package you will have 1/1000 (maybe even 1/10000) the voting power of some of these folks.  This is a game with maybe... 20,000 people.     

    This isn't some in game role playing event... this is the player, the customer... not the character.


    What concerns me is why do this? If it comes from the idea we need to give the whales the idea they are having a big impact when they are not that's fine. So maybe which map is picked really does not matter that much at all. It just gives whales a sense of involvement.

    But if they follow through on this what other decisions are going to be left to the whales? That's where P2W could reign. We shall see.
    The whole game is built on the foundation that there are different tiers of characters AND players.

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

    My ignore list finally has one occupant after 12 years. I am the strongest supporter of free speech on here, but free speech does not mean forced listening. Have fun my friend. Hope you find a new stalking target.

  • TorrskTorrsk Member UncommonPosts: 218
    Scot said:

    What concerns me is why do this? If it comes from the idea we need to give the whales the idea they are having a big impact when they are not that's fine. So maybe which map is picked really does not matter that much at all. It just gives whales a sense of involvement.

    But if they follow through on this what other decisions are going to be left to the whales? That's where P2W could reign. We shall see.
    The whole game is built around not being fair. It's basically their "go to" whenever someone brings up anything to do with P2W.

    In my opinion the game went from being borderline dodgy to completely when the promotion items came out. So EP items can only be used in expo. Don't spend your EP? It converts into story points, at some rate. 

    While promotion items, you get a token. This token has no time limit and also can't be looted from you. Wanna keep 100 pig tokens 4 years after launch, hey you can do that now. Seems I'm one of the few that has issues with this, most naturally don't care.
    GdemamiScot
  • WellspringWellspring Member EpicPosts: 1,200
    Torrsk said:
    Scot said:

    What concerns me is why do this? If it comes from the idea we need to give the whales the idea they are having a big impact when they are not that's fine. So maybe which map is picked really does not matter that much at all. It just gives whales a sense of involvement.

    But if they follow through on this what other decisions are going to be left to the whales? That's where P2W could reign. We shall see.
    The whole game is built around not being fair. It's basically their "go to" whenever someone brings up anything to do with P2W.

    In my opinion the game went from being borderline dodgy to completely when the promotion items came out. So EP items can only be used in expo. Don't spend your EP? It converts into story points, at some rate. 

    While promotion items, you get a token. This token has no time limit and also can't be looted from you. Wanna keep 100 pig tokens 4 years after launch, hey you can do that now. Seems I'm one of the few that has issues with this, most naturally don't care.
    I would have a serious issue with that token thing. I just didn't know they existed for items other than the guild tokens. Can you buy tokens for other things, like livestock? Perhaps this needs its own forum thread.
    Gdemami
    --------------------------------------------
  • TorrskTorrsk Member UncommonPosts: 218
    I would have a serious issue with that token thing. I just didn't know they existed for items other than the guild tokens. Can you buy tokens for other things, like livestock? Perhaps this needs its own forum thread.
    Yeah probably does need it's own thread. Not wanting to derail this one anymore. Basically anytime SBS brings out another monthly promotion. Those are tokens. 
    WellspringSlapshot1188Kyleran
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 11,054
    Torrsk said:
    I would have a serious issue with that token thing. I just didn't know they existed for items other than the guild tokens. Can you buy tokens for other things, like livestock? Perhaps this needs its own forum thread.
    Yeah probably does need it's own thread. Not wanting to derail this one anymore. Basically anytime SBS brings out another monthly promotion. Those are tokens. 
    Pretty sure we had a thread on this already but yes it’s quite an interesting topic.  Just think about these “Kings” who can buy token for ships with sets of raider armor etc...

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

    My ignore list finally has one occupant after 12 years. I am the strongest supporter of free speech on here, but free speech does not mean forced listening. Have fun my friend. Hope you find a new stalking target.

  • AnOldFartAnOldFart Member UncommonPosts: 475
    I wonder if those last couple of store purchases were made with store credit and that's why no influence?
    Yes they were, anything at 0ip was store credit.



    With regards the tokens, I still can't believe they changed from "had to be used during expo" to "can be kept all the time".
    That is one of the things that put me off tbh
    MadFrenchieWellspringKyleranGdemami
  • NeutralEvilNeutralEvil Member UncommonPosts: 108
    I didn't think that the tokens to be used for after exposition (the three month head start) ended was for EVERYTHING bought in the store. 

    It was my understanding it was only for select items. Guess there needs to be some clarification on that
    WellspringKyleran
  • WellspringWellspring Member EpicPosts: 1,200
    I didn't think that the tokens to be used for after exposition (the three month head start) ended was for EVERYTHING bought in the store. 

    It was my understanding it was only for select items. Guess there needs to be some clarification on that
    Like everything else so far in this game, I'm sure they'll error on the side of P2W.
    Kyleran
    --------------------------------------------
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 33,936
    edited October 2018
    Scot said:
    How are people going to decide which map is the best one to vote for anyways? Will they reveal detailed information about the map, like biomes and resource locations and existing kingdom borders? 

    Or is it just going to be geographic concept art, where you pick the land mass that looks the prettiest?
    https://chroniclesofelyria.com/blog/28843/Adventure-Completion-From-Pre-to-Alpha#image-2
    https://chroniclesofelyria.com/blog/28843/Adventure-Completion-From-Pre-to-Alpha#image-3

    So my fundamental issue with this is the fact that once again, it's giving people that pay a lot of money a ridiculous percent of the vote.   If you are just a commoner with the basic package you will have 1/1000 (maybe even 1/10000) the voting power of some of these folks.  This is a game with maybe... 20,000 people.     

    This isn't some in game role playing event... this is the player, the customer... not the character.


    What concerns me is why do this? If it comes from the idea we need to give the whales the idea they are having a big impact when they are not that's fine. So maybe which map is picked really does not matter that much at all. It just gives whales a sense of involvement.

    But if they follow through on this what other decisions are going to be left to the whales? That's where P2W could reign. We shall see.
    The whole game is built on the foundation that there are different tiers of characters AND players.
    Well, one thing is influence appears to be a finite currency.  It is possible some whales may spend most or even all of their influence voting for the server maps.

    If so, then despite being king sized whales they may have nothing to spend should influence be used later in development.

    Unless of course, they buy more stuff to regain their influence.

    Perhaps this map voting is really just a clever "influence sink" to drain it from the community and encourage additional purchases further funding the game.

    Evil genius really if so......

    (Meanwhile, alarms are going off all over the COE Ivory Tower right now as a "Harbinger" appears to somehow have figured out "the plan")

    B)




    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 11,054
    No.  You spend EP now... Exhibition Points

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

    My ignore list finally has one occupant after 12 years. I am the strongest supporter of free speech on here, but free speech does not mean forced listening. Have fun my friend. Hope you find a new stalking target.

  • UngoodUngood Member EpicPosts: 2,757
    Kyleran said:

    (Meanwhile, alarms are going off all over the COE Ivory Tower right now as a "Harbinger" appears to somehow have figured out "the plan")
    I am rather amazed that anyone would take a "Harbinger" seriously at this point.
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 33,936
    No.  You spend EP now... Exhibition Points
    Not quite right, those are called Exposition Points, formerly called Bonus IP, but you do spend them. 

    Not to be confused with Influence Points, which I think formerly could be spent only in the Exposition. Now called Store Credit and can be used after launch.

    Influence (why does everything have to be so complicated in this game?) only can increase,  never decrease as it's not actually spent. (Though at one time it was being considered as a currency)

    For the purpose of map voting only they are decreasing the voting multiplier by the amount of influence utilized between the first and second round.

    Still it could "influence" people to spend more in the store the next few weeks to gain more voting power unless the influence values are locked already?


    https://chroniclesofelyria.gamepedia.com/Influence

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 33,936
    Ungood said:
    Kyleran said:

    (Meanwhile, alarms are going off all over the COE Ivory Tower right now as a "Harbinger" appears to somehow have figured out "the plan")
    I am rather amazed that anyone would take a "Harbinger" seriously at this point.
    If you know anyone who actually is, send them my way, will learn them up right quick.

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • LokeroLokero Member RarePosts: 1,513
    Kyleran said:
    No.  You spend EP now... Exhibition Points
    Not quite right, those are called Exposition Points, formerly called Bonus IP, but you do spend them. 

    Not to be confused with Influence Points, which I think formerly could be spent only in the Exposition. Now called Store Credit and can be used after launch.

    Influence (why does everything have to be so complicated in this game?) only can increase,  never decrease as it's not actually spent. (Though at one time it was being considered as a currency)

    For the purpose of map voting only they are decreasing the voting multiplier by the amount of influence utilized between the first and second round.

    Still it could "influence" people to spend more in the store the next few weeks to gain more voting power unless the influence values are locked already?


    https://chroniclesofelyria.gamepedia.com/Influence

    Cripes, that's all so convoluted.  I guess no one ever taught them the basic KISS principle of development.
    Kyleran
  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer Member EpicPosts: 8,767
    Monetizing maps????

  • TorrskTorrsk Member UncommonPosts: 218
    I didn't think that the tokens to be used for after exposition (the three month head start) ended was for EVERYTHING bought in the store. 

    It was my understanding it was only for select items. Guess there needs to be some clarification on that
    They were just never clear on it. At one point they were going to just let people that had a bit of EP but no bloodline tier, into expo in the last week/few days to spend it. Then they removed EP those accounts had. 

    The same idea floated around this token idea. Since you could buy it, when you didn't even have access to expo. I wish I could find the thread, but they have said it a few times. On the forums and mostly on discord. That they have no time limit. But don't see it as game breaking, since not many people have stocked up. Which still makes no sense, since you could still abuse the hell out of it. 

    I did make a thread about this a few months back. I could see how it could look pay to win. But was shot down by basically everyone and SBS. Cause no many items will use this token system. Even though SBS basically has monthly promotion items for sale. It something that still annoys me.
  • TorrskTorrsk Member UncommonPosts: 218
    Kyleran said:
    Well, one thing is influence appears to be a finite currency.  It is possible some whales may spend most or even all of their influence voting for the server maps.

    If so, then despite being king sized whales they may have nothing to spend should influence be used later in development.

    Wouldn't work like that. You can't lose IP or Influence, whichever way is less confusing. In the case of map voting, just shows how much power you have towards the vote. 

    The only thing they have not thought of, since NA/EU has two rounds and OCE only has one round. Could OCE really vote in round 1 of the other two servers, to plainly troll them. Since they don't lose out on their vote power.
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 33,936
    Torrsk said:
    Kyleran said:
    Well, one thing is influence appears to be a finite currency.  It is possible some whales may spend most or even all of their influence voting for the server maps.

    If so, then despite being king sized whales they may have nothing to spend should influence be used later in development.

    Wouldn't work like that. You can't lose IP or Influence, whichever way is less confusing. In the case of map voting, just shows how much power you have towards the vote. 

    The only thing they have not thought of, since NA/EU has two rounds and OCE only has one round. Could OCE really vote in round 1 of the other two servers, to plainly troll them. Since they don't lose out on their vote power.
    Oh, well the COE player community is far too noble for anything like that to happen.

    ;)
    AnOldFart

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 11,054
    edited October 2018
    Torrsk said:
    I didn't think that the tokens to be used for after exposition (the three month head start) ended was for EVERYTHING bought in the store. 

    It was my understanding it was only for select items. Guess there needs to be some clarification on that
    They were just never clear on it. At one point they were going to just let people that had a bit of EP but no bloodline tier, into expo in the last week/few days to spend it. Then they removed EP those accounts had. 

    The same idea floated around this token idea. Since you could buy it, when you didn't even have access to expo. I wish I could find the thread, but they have said it a few times. On the forums and mostly on discord. That they have no time limit. But don't see it as game breaking, since not many people have stocked up. Which still makes no sense, since you could still abuse the hell out of it. 

    I did make a thread about this a few months back. I could see how it could look pay to win. But was shot down by basically everyone and SBS. Cause no many items will use this token system. Even though SBS basically has monthly promotion items for sale. It something that still annoys me.
    You have to remember what I think is the fundamental disconnect from reality.There are around 20k players so far on all servers combined (best guess). They are building a game with the belief that there will be 100k characters PER SERVER.  

    So... from that point of view, if 1000 people stock up but there are 400,000 players it’s a small percentage.

    What we do know is that they have raised nearly $5,000,000 by selling items, land, status and other in game advantages.
    Gdemami

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

    My ignore list finally has one occupant after 12 years. I am the strongest supporter of free speech on here, but free speech does not mean forced listening. Have fun my friend. Hope you find a new stalking target.

  • SpottyGekkoSpottyGekko Member EpicPosts: 6,910
    Slapshot1188 said:
    ...

    What we do know is that they have raised nearly $5,000,000 by selling items, land, status and other in game advantages.
    And out of the roughly 20K registered players, probably less than 5K players contributed the vast majority of that $5M, literally "buying influence" in boatloads, lol
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 11,753
    I stopped reading after the tokens posts, I cannot see how CoE will not have the biggest P2W of the new indie MMOs. It seems to be what they are aiming for so not for me.
    GdemamiKyleranGorawyn

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  • TorrskTorrsk Member UncommonPosts: 218
    Scot said:
    I stopped reading after the tokens posts, I cannot see how CoE will not have the biggest P2W of the new indie MMOs. It seems to be what they are aiming for so not for me.
    There has been a ton of threads over the years of people saying that. Which at least before these tokens. Could be brushed aside by saying "well EP can only be spent in expo" and all is somewhat mostly well. But as I said before, most people don't seem to overall care. The annoying line Caspian tends to use is "this game isn't built around being fair". Like that somehow means anything and that everything can be made as unfair as possible.
    ScotGdemami
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 11,054
    I didn't think that the tokens to be used for after exposition (the three month head start) ended was for EVERYTHING bought in the store. 

    It was my understanding it was only for select items. Guess there needs to be some clarification on that
    Looking through the forums, the private forum info, news posts, and the Discord I believe that all store/promotions can be redeemed with tokens after the game launches. 

    Things bought with the EP currency in the long promised Exposition Store will need to be used in Exposition or will be converted to “story points”
    Kyleran

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

    My ignore list finally has one occupant after 12 years. I am the strongest supporter of free speech on here, but free speech does not mean forced listening. Have fun my friend. Hope you find a new stalking target.

  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 33,936
    edited October 2018
    Torrsk said:
    Scot said:
    I stopped reading after the tokens posts, I cannot see how CoE will not have the biggest P2W of the new indie MMOs. It seems to be what they are aiming for so not for me.
    There has been a ton of threads over the years of people saying that. Which at least before these tokens. Could be brushed aside by saying "well EP can only be spent in expo" and all is somewhat mostly well. But as I said before, most people don't seem to overall care. The annoying line Caspian tends to use is "this game isn't built around being fair". Like that somehow means anything and that everything can be made as unfair as possible.
    As a long time EVE player and always MMORPG underdog the concept of these games ever being fair in any manner eludes me nor do I understand why some gamers obsess about making it so.

    I have always had to adapt to "unfair" competition,  from not having as much free time, not rich enough to buy my wins, (besides being against my morals), to not being born about one generation later in order to have been far more practiced in gaming at a younger age.

    Hacks, cheats, meta gaming, head starts, macros, the list of advantages I give away in every game is almost endless.

    Any wonder I can usually shrug off most of them as long as they don't noticeably impact my personal experience. 


    NeutralEvilTorrskAnOldFart

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • NeutralEvilNeutralEvil Member UncommonPosts: 108
    I didn't think that the tokens to be used for after exposition (the three month head start) ended was for EVERYTHING bought in the store. 

    It was my understanding it was only for select items. Guess there needs to be some clarification on that
    Looking through the forums, the private forum info, news posts, and the Discord I believe that all store/promotions can be redeemed with tokens after the game launches. 

    Things bought with the EP currency in the long promised Exposition Store will need to be used in Exposition or will be converted to “story points”
    The only items in the store right now are mounts, pets, and a wagon. (mounts being $10-$30 a piece)

    Just so it's clear what (if it's true these can be claimed after launch) can be bought now and acquired post launch.

    I'm not entirely worried about someone else having a ton of horses and wagons
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