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Apple requires proprietary software/hardware to make major repairs to iMac Pros and new MacBook Pros

GruntyGrunty Member EpicPosts: 8,657
edited October 2018 in Hardware
https://www.engadget.com/2018/10/04/t2-apple-imac-pro-macbook-pro-repair-right/

Any Apple computer with it's T2 chip is affected by this. That currently is limited to the iMac Pro and 2018 MacBook Pro.  Only authorized Apple service departments with proprietary diagnostic software/hardware can now repair significant hardware issues.

"According to MacRumors and shown on documents posted by Motherboard, anyone doing significant repair work on these systems will be left with a nonfunctioning system until they run the "Apple Service Toolkit 2" diagnostic software. For the MacBook Pro that includes "display assembly, logic board, top case (the keyboard, touchpad, and internal housing), and Touch ID board," and on the iMac Pro, it's the logic board or SSD."

You'll also need another functioning computer to run the diagnostic application from.

There goes your 'right to repair'.

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Comments

  • alkarionlogalkarionlog Member EpicPosts: 3,472
    so pray tell me why even care about buying a apple product?
    KyleranOzmodandragonlee66Phry[Deleted User]
    FOR HONOR, FOR FREEDOM.... and for some money.
  • SandmanjwSandmanjw Member UncommonPosts: 326
    Grunty said:
    https://www.engadget.com/2018/10/04/t2-apple-imac-pro-macbook-pro-repair-right/

    Any Apple computer with it's T2 chip is affected by this. That currently is limited to the iMac Pro and 2018 MacBook Pro.  Only authorized Apple service departments with proprietary diagnostic software/hardware can now repair significant hardware issues.

    "According to MacRumors and shown on documents posted by Motherboard, anyone doing significant repair work on these systems will be left with a nonfunctioning system until they run the "Apple Service Toolkit 2" diagnostic software. For the MacBook Pro that includes "display assembly, logic board, top case (the keyboard, touchpad, and internal housing), and Touch ID board," and on the iMac Pro, it's the logic board or SSD."

    You'll also need another functioning computer to run the diagnostic application from.

    There goes your 'right to repair'.

    Do not see how they will be allowed to let this go in the end. I really do not see how a court will ever say that a person can not have who they wish repair their own property.

    Would hope that this is an over site...and not really something that they planned.  But this is apple..never know what they are really thinking over there in LA LA land.
    Nirimetus
  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 20,627
    We'll see how that goes.  don't think core Apple users will care. Some Hackintosh geeks might be pissed.

    In any event I don't think this will affect the hardware enthusiast/builder crowd in a significant manner.
    Panther2103Kyleran
    Fedora - A modern, free, and open source Operating System. https://getfedora.org/

    traveller, interloper, anomaly, iteration


  • TheDarkrayneTheDarkrayne Member EpicPosts: 5,297
    I've always thought Apple caters towards people who wouldn't be able to fix issues themselves so I don't think it will affect much.
    KyleranOzmodanalkarionlog
    I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 20,627
    I've always thought Apple caters towards people who wouldn't be able to fix issues themselves so I don't think it will affect much.
    That is a part of the demographic but a lot of power users can work on their own hardware. It's more like, why would you want to? Apple provides excellent support so that hardware issues aren't that big a deal.

    Warning incoming anecdote -

    My last phone as an iPhone 6S. The fingerprint reader on that model is also the home button. It's mechanical. Mine failed and stopped reading my fingerprint and stopped working (going to home). I brought it to the repair center, under my Apple Care plan, got a replacement iPhone 6 to use for the week while it was gone.

    Apple checked my phone for damage. If I had dunked it or mistreated it then I might have had to pay a deductible after a couple strikes ($80 at the most). Instead of repairing it they chose to replace it with a new phone instead. I got that shipped back, returned my loaner, restored my backup, and was on my way. Apple had the phone a week (a little annoying), but swapping only took about 15 minutes including restoring my data and settings. Technically, it was rather amazing to experience first hand.

    So, in the end it depends on how their users feel about the service experience over the lifetime of the device. If Apple has a plan to make their users happy over that lifetime then their users won't mind at all.

    This change likely means Apple wants to drive Apple Care service contracts which will make it more costly to own. Again, their users won't necessarily care if they deliver on the support experience. They're good at doing that so I'm not doubting them. If they stumble, then that's on them to deal with.
    ceratop001RidelynnOzmodan
    Fedora - A modern, free, and open source Operating System. https://getfedora.org/

    traveller, interloper, anomaly, iteration


  • RenoakuRenoaku Member EpicPosts: 3,140
    So don't buy Apple, do custom buitl all the time problem solved <3.
    OzmodanEvilGeekScotty787alkarionlog
  • ceratop001ceratop001 Member RarePosts: 1,594
    Apple in my opinion will start declining. They have taken some political stances that could backfire on them. Also, in Asia shares are falling. Chinese spy chips were found in both Amazon and Apple products. Their new Iphones are not doing very well either.
     
  • Solar_ProphetSolar_Prophet Member EpicPosts: 1,956
    Torval said:
    We'll see how that goes.  don't think core Apple users will care. Some Hackintosh geeks might be pissed.

    In any event I don't think this will affect the hardware enthusiast/builder crowd in a significant manner.
    Not only will they not care, they'll try to spin it as a positive. Apple fans are just... well, to put it nicely, they behave like a cult. If Apple told them that the great Granny Smith was coming to take them to the Honeycrisp galaxy to attend an exclusive Gala on planet Fuji, they'd believe it. 
    Phaserlight

    AN' DERE AIN'T NO SUCH FING AS ENUFF DAKKA, YA GROT! Enuff'z more than ya got an' less than too much an' there ain't no such fing as too much dakka. Say dere is, and me Squiggoff'z eatin' tonight!

    We are born of the blood. Made men by the blood. Undone by the blood. Our eyes are yet to open. FEAR THE OLD BLOOD. 

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  • PhryPhry Member LegendaryPosts: 11,004
    These days, the reasons to get a Mac are probably outweighted by the negatives, price does not equal performance and prohibitive maintenance costs which probably rule out upgrading which is the whole point of getting a PC in the first place. Unless you have some kind of emotional attachment to the brand, i don't really see why anyone would even consider buying a Mac today. :o
    KyleranOzmodan
  • PemminPemmin Member UncommonPosts: 623
    Apple died with Jobs. Generally no real reason to pay extra for an apple outside of brand loyalty or very niche uses
    Ozmodan
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,505
    edited October 2018
    This isn't the only place that is experiencing this move towards removing consumer's rights over products they've paid for.

    Farmers have recently suffered from legislation that forces them to take their tractors to the manufacturer to get repairs completed, specifically when it's electronic.

    That's the next area of opportunity for businesses: lock customers into a de facto contract without actually having them sign a contract (or by forcing them to sign a contract to even reliably use the product), really.
    Post edited by MadFrenchie on
    Ridelynn

    image
  • cheyanecheyane Member LegendaryPosts: 7,536
    edited October 2018
    Never buy apple products they are overpriced. I frequently tell my friends they are idiots for buying their phones and paying ridiculous prices for them. Told them never to buy the Mac and to always get a PC.

    They often ask me for help with their phones and I just hate having to deal with their stupid single button phones and tell them as much. All the while grumbling I do help as they are 65 and above so really no reason for them to have these expensive phones. I wonder how people are this dumb.
    Chamber of Chains
  • ArglebargleArglebargle Member RarePosts: 2,920
    As much as I dislike Apple, the iOS systems are the best tablet platform for audio in their price range.  Mostly due to great third party software.  Outside of a very limited number of Samsung hardware, Android just doesn't do the trick.  And that's with Apple doing stoopid things to cripple their iPads and such.  

    But I'd never buy a new Mac.  As time goes by, there'll be a range of older Mac computers that will be preferred hardware, up til the point it simply won't work with new OS's anymore.  Smart money will then just not upgrade them.  
    Ozmodan

    If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.

  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer Member EpicPosts: 8,847
    My daughter just bought a Macbook. All her friends at college have them. I just shook my head.
    Ozmodandragonlee66
  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 29,199
    edited October 2018
    cheyane said:
    Never buy apple products they are overpriced. I frequently tell my friends they are idiots for buying their phones and paying ridiculous prices for them. Told them never to buy the Mac and to always get a PC.

    They often ask me for help with their phones and I just hate having to deal with their stupid single button phones and tell them as much. All the while grumbling I do help as they are 65 and above so really no reason for them to have these expensive phones. I wonder how people are this dumb.
    Wow, you just sound like a peach. :(

    I should add that I've had an immensely better experience with every mac I've owned than my pc's.

    Still have old mac book that works beautifully which I gave to a friend.

    I could listen to other people who rant and rave (I'm sure they are just wonderful, really) because that's just who they are or listen to my own experience.

    Meanwhile the pc laptops at work are always having issues.

    I think I'll go with my own experience. Love my macs.


    RidelynnOzmodanPhaserlight
  • SlyLoKSlyLoK Member RarePosts: 2,698
    Pemmin said:
    Apple died with Jobs. Generally no real reason to pay extra for an apple outside of brand loyalty or very niche uses
    Bill Gates should have let Apple die instead of giving them a loan to stay afloat..
    dragonlee66[Deleted User]
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,505
    edited October 2018
    Sovrath said:
    cheyane said:
    Never buy apple products they are overpriced. I frequently tell my friends they are idiots for buying their phones and paying ridiculous prices for them. Told them never to buy the Mac and to always get a PC.

    They often ask me for help with their phones and I just hate having to deal with their stupid single button phones and tell them as much. All the while grumbling I do help as they are 65 and above so really no reason for them to have these expensive phones. I wonder how people are this dumb.
    Wow, you just sound like a peach. :(

    I should add that I've had an immensely better experience with every mac I've owned than my pc's.

    Still have old mac book that works beautifully which I gave to a friend.

    I could listen to other people who rant and rave (I'm sure they are just wonderful, really) because that's just who they are or listen to my own experience.

    Meanwhile the pc laptops at work are always having issues.

    I think I'll go with my own experience. Love my macs.


    My PC at work has issues regularly, too.  However, my PC at home has never had a major issue in the two years (and some change) I've owned and upgraded it.  Certainly nothing that would ever warrant a call to an actual tech support service.


    image
  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 22,642
    Whether you want to try to repair something or not, it's nice to at least have the option.  I've repaired keyboards and gamepads that cost under $20 new.  Sometimes a 10 minute repair job to open it up and fix something is cheaper than the amount of time it would take to get a new one, quite apart from the cost.
    MadFrenchieOzmodanPhry
  • El-HefeEl-Hefe Member UncommonPosts: 760
    Sandmanjw said:
    Grunty said:
    https://www.engadget.com/2018/10/04/t2-apple-imac-pro-macbook-pro-repair-right/

    Any Apple computer with it's T2 chip is affected by this. That currently is limited to the iMac Pro and 2018 MacBook Pro.  Only authorized Apple service departments with proprietary diagnostic software/hardware can now repair significant hardware issues.

    "According to MacRumors and shown on documents posted by Motherboard, anyone doing significant repair work on these systems will be left with a nonfunctioning system until they run the "Apple Service Toolkit 2" diagnostic software. For the MacBook Pro that includes "display assembly, logic board, top case (the keyboard, touchpad, and internal housing), and Touch ID board," and on the iMac Pro, it's the logic board or SSD."

    You'll also need another functioning computer to run the diagnostic application from.

    There goes your 'right to repair'.

    Do not see how they will be allowed to let this go in the end. I really do not see how a court will ever say that a person can not have who they wish repair their own property.

    Would hope that this is an over site...and not really something that they planned.  But this is apple..never know what they are really thinking over there in LA LA land.
    It's not really a new idea.  Health insurance companies and car dealerships have been doing the same sort of thing for decades.

    I've got the straight edge.

  • RidelynnRidelynn Member EpicPosts: 7,143
    It’s all put together with glue and soldered anyway - what is left to repair?

    I can honestly see a security angle to it.

    I can’t understand Apple taking away the choice of an end user being willing to take a security risk on a 3rd party repair should they choose to.

    but given that you can’t really repair much of anything anyway - it doesn’t really make this a big deal to me. You should already realize if you are buying an Apple your repair options are limited. For me, that’s half the reason I do buy apple - so I don’t need to use those options in the first place
    TorvalKyleran
  • FlyByKnightFlyByKnight Member EpicPosts: 3,967
    Apple Island
    "As far as the forum code of conduct, I would think it's a bit outdated and in need of a refre *CLOSED*" 

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • OzmodanOzmodan Member EpicPosts: 9,726
    Sovrath said:
    cheyane said:
    Never buy apple products they are overpriced. I frequently tell my friends they are idiots for buying their phones and paying ridiculous prices for them. Told them never to buy the Mac and to always get a PC.

    They often ask me for help with their phones and I just hate having to deal with their stupid single button phones and tell them as much. All the while grumbling I do help as they are 65 and above so really no reason for them to have these expensive phones. I wonder how people are this dumb.
    Wow, you just sound like a peach. :(

    I should add that I've had an immensely better experience with every mac I've owned than my pc's.

    Still have old mac book that works beautifully which I gave to a friend.

    I could listen to other people who rant and rave (I'm sure they are just wonderful, really) because that's just who they are or listen to my own experience.

    Meanwhile the pc laptops at work are always having issues.

    I think I'll go with my own experience. Love my macs.


    I just do not get people that buy Mac computers.  The three concepts I always associate with Apple computers is overpriced, underperforming, gamer unfriendly.  That, in a nutshell, makes me wonder why anyone would even bother.  Rumors are they are moving to a proprietary chip in all their Mac products which makes their product worse in my mind.

    I actually like their phones and tablets, I use both.  It seems to me that their prospective PC buyer is more about style than what the product does.  

    A funny anecdote,  my daughter has several friends that have Apple laptops and I am always getting requests to fix one of them even though my daughter knows I won't touch them.

  • PhaserlightPhaserlight Member EpicPosts: 3,010
    Ozmodan said:
    Sovrath said:
    cheyane said:
    Never buy apple products they are overpriced. I frequently tell my friends they are idiots for buying their phones and paying ridiculous prices for them. Told them never to buy the Mac and to always get a PC.

    They often ask me for help with their phones and I just hate having to deal with their stupid single button phones and tell them as much. All the while grumbling I do help as they are 65 and above so really no reason for them to have these expensive phones. I wonder how people are this dumb.
    Wow, you just sound like a peach. :(

    I should add that I've had an immensely better experience with every mac I've owned than my pc's.

    Still have old mac book that works beautifully which I gave to a friend.

    I could listen to other people who rant and rave (I'm sure they are just wonderful, really) because that's just who they are or listen to my own experience.

    Meanwhile the pc laptops at work are always having issues.

    I think I'll go with my own experience. Love my macs.


    I just do not get people that buy Mac computers.  The three concepts I always associate with Apple computers is overpriced, underperforming, gamer unfriendly.  That, in a nutshell, makes me wonder why anyone would even bother.  Rumors are they are moving to a proprietary chip in all their Mac products which makes their product worse in my mind.

    I actually like their phones and tablets, I use both.  It seems to me that their prospective PC buyer is more about style than what the product does.  

    A funny anecdote,  my daughter has several friends that have Apple laptops and I am always getting requests to fix one of them even though my daughter knows I won't touch them.

    It's funny because I actually really like Mac desktops; I grew up in an era where on most PCs you still had to type in the file path of a program you wanted to open via command prompt.

    Apple may not have invented the desktop metaphor, but they certainly popularized it. 

    For a phone, though, I'll stick with Android.  I prefer not to be locked in to a single ecosystem.

    "The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar
    Authored 139 missions in Vendetta Online and 6 tracks in Distance

  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 22,642
    Apple may not have invented the desktop metaphor, but they certainly popularized it. 
    By "desktop", I think you mean "GUI", or possibly "mouse".
  • PhaserlightPhaserlight Member EpicPosts: 3,010
    edited October 2018
    Quizzical said:
    Apple may not have invented the desktop metaphor, but they certainly popularized it. 
    By "desktop", I think you mean "GUI", or possibly "mouse".
    Sure, but I think my statement is still fair?  Besides the Xerox Alto, were there other serious contenders at the time?  I remember MS-DOS quite well, but I'd never call it a "desktop".

    edit: I realize this gets confusing because we are talking about "desktop computers" and here I am using "desktop" to refer to an OS.  I get that the Macintosh "desktop" (seen on screen) is an example of a GUI.

    "The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar
    Authored 139 missions in Vendetta Online and 6 tracks in Distance

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