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Self-evident,yet ignored

delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 5,090
The obvious, people are starving for a good mmorpg 
The obvious, very very few are happy with current choices 
The obvious, happiness polls spring to life often here and ALWAYS shows negative results 
The obvious, F2P ALWAYS angers players  
The obvious, every mmorpg release attracts EVERYONE if its advertised properly 

Every day, day in and day out, posters contradict themselves sticking up for current choices, yet other post they complain about the OBVIOUS.  For some reason posters squish negativity, yet they have MUCH negativity themselves in other post. 

Negativity doesn't always make a person negative.... It could be justified if something is wrong. 

Prof that people are unhappy have been proven so many times it would be hard to count, YET IGNORED over and over.  People will vote then turn around and say the opposite of how they voted ! 




Recently a topic was made    "POLL: What is your favorite MMORPG of all time?" 

Results: 53.22% voted for classics. Every other choice votes were spread negligible.  Infact It was surprising how little the supposed popular current were 0% !


Highest votes:   
EverQuest 1, EverQuest 2, Dark Age of Camelot, Asherons Call, Starwars Galaxies, Lord of the Rings, Vanguard. 
They are classics ? My only opinion on all this.... its not because their classics, but the STYLE in witch they were created.  

How are facts so ignored ?
XodicScorchiencraftseekerTokkenMensurGdemamichambordinBananableSirAgravaine
«1345

Comments

  • ScorchienScorchien Member LegendaryPosts: 6,001
    The obvious, people are starving for a good mmorpg 
    The obvious, very very few are happy with current choices 
    The obvious, happiness polls spring to life often here and ALWAYS shows negative results 
    The obvious, F2P ALWAYS angers players  
    The obvious, every mmorpg release attracts EVERYONE if its advertised properly 

    Every day, day in and day out, posters contradict themselves sticking up for current choices, yet other post they complain about the OBVIOUS.  For some reason posters squish negativity, yet they have MUCH negativity themselves in other post. 

    Negativity doesn't always make a person negative.... It could be justified if something is wrong. 

    Prof that people are unhappy have been proven so many times it would be hard to count, YET IGNORED over and over.  People will vote then turn around and say the opposite of how they voted ! 




    Recently a topic was made    "POLL: What is your favorite MMORPG of all time?" 

    Results: 53.22% voted for classics. Every other choice votes were spread negligible.  Infact It was surprising how little the supposed popular current were 0% !


    Highest votes:   
    EverQuest 1, EverQuest 2, Dark Age of Camelot, Asherons Call, Starwars Galaxies, Lord of the Rings, Vanguard. 
    They are classics ? My only opinion on all this.... its not because their classics, but the STYLE in witch they were created.  

    How are facts so ignored ?
    I noticed that in that Poll also , that noone chose any of the current crop MMOs , everything was older games ..

      Not 100% sure but kinda attributed it to , for most folks there first game .. and nostalgia , but im normally not a begin proponent of that stance ..

     I actually am of the stance that the older games are actually just better MMORPG experiences still today for me ..

      The nostalgia may apply to some folks ..Or is the belief truly that the older games are just better MMORPGs ..?
    ceratop001craftseekerGdemami
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 31,035
    What would Friday be without an @delete5230 thread?

    Good observation though, has been my experience on these forums games (or gameplay) that exist largely in players memories are the most popular.

    This is closely followed by games not yet created, the less actual information known about them the better they rate in many cases.

    Always at the bottom are games currently available, which many play because...I dunno why, boredom maybe, too much disposable income, masochistic tendencies? 

    No game does well in the harsh, cold light of present day reality but don't worry, 10 years from now many will be remembered far more fondly than they deserve, same was true for classic games.
    ConstantineMerusStjerneoddLokeroTokkenJean-Luc_PicardRobsolfGdemamiGobstopper3D

    "I should run a marathon backwards. So I could see what second place look like" Royce da 5'9"

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, back in EVE until then

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • ConstantineMerusConstantineMerus Member EpicPosts: 2,328
    Kyleran said:
    What would Friday be without an @delete5230 thread?

    Good observation though, has been my experience on these forums games (or gameplay) that exist largely in players memories are the most popular.

    This is closely followed by games not yet created, the less actual information known about them the better they rate in many cases.

    Always at the bottom are games currently available, which many play because...I dunno why, boredom maybe, too much disposable income, masochistic tendencies? 

    No game does well in the harsh, cold light of present day reality but don't worry, 10 years from now many will be remembered far more fondly than they deserve, same was true for classic games.
    Well I don't play MMOs anymore because they don't make them the way I like. But singleplayer and multiplayer games are as good as it gets. I'm not sure if I would even play the MMOs that I have backed. I was excited when I did, but not anymore. None sound so revolutionary now, not even on paper. 

    I'm not looking for the exact same games that I used to play 20 years ago neither. Yeah oldschool was the best school, and I was the fucking headmaster. But I don't want to go backwards. I guess when it comes down to MMOs only a virtual world - in every sense of the word - would get me excited. Until then I'm done with the genre for good. 
    KylerancraftseekerMrMelGibsonkjempfflaseritNorseGod
    Something wicked comes this way @Feb-2019
  • NibsNibs Member UncommonPosts: 274
    When asked "What's your favourite MMORPG of all time?", I don't think "If I played them today, what would be my favourite MMORPG?". I think "In which MMORPG did I have the most fun?"

    I don't have the time I used to. Nor do the people I played with "back then". So playing DAOC or CoX now wouldn't be the same experience as it was then.

    So, I answer "What's your favourite MMORPG of all time?" with "DAoC", as that is the MMO I have the most great memories from. WoW, ESO, or any other MMO launched in the last 10 years doesn't register as a favourite as the playing experience wasn't as good as my time DAoC. Not because the games themselves were necessarily bad, but because my life was different.
    delete5230
  • madazzmadazz Member UncommonPosts: 1,926
    "The obvious, every mmorpg release attracts EVERYONE if its advertised properly"

    HELLLLL NO. You can do your best to advertise anything and I still won't be suckered in if its not my style of game. 
    NorseGod
  • ceratop001ceratop001 Member RarePosts: 1,551
    This can be wrapped up in one word. "Addiction".

    What is my favorite mmorpg of all time?

    Easy, my favorite is "Addiction"

    Were all just wondering addicted gamers looking for are next fix.
     
  • SandmanjwSandmanjw Member UncommonPosts: 109
    delete5230 said:
    The obvious, people are starving for a good mmorpg 
    The obvious, very very few are happy with current choices 
    The obvious, happiness polls spring to life often here and ALWAYS shows negative results 
    The obvious, F2P ALWAYS angers players  
    The obvious, every mmorpg release attracts EVERYONE if its advertised properly 

    How are facts so ignored ?
    As per usual, you take the people on this place and try to make some broad overarching conclusions. 

    There are literally MILLIONS of gamer's out there playing and enjoying  both old and new MMORPG's.

    This place is a small (tiny) piece of the puzzle. And one that seems to me to be of a certain age/type of people that are mostly older, as you noticed on what games they liked in the poll. And some (most?) quite set in what they like and will most likely never find again. 

    It is a generational thing. Our generation of games were games that new gamer's may never like or care about. 

    No game, past, present, or future,  will make the people here on this place all happy, let alone all the rest of gamer's out there that are quite happy where they are and with what they are playing.

    Your dream of one great game to rule them all is just that, a dream:)

    HatefullJean-Luc_Picardimmodiumklash2defMrMelGibsonGobstopper3D
  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer Member EpicPosts: 8,551
    What's obvious?
    That you don't have a game to pick from?

    Your problem in your post is that it's full of absolutes. 
    Thus you are simply wrong.

    I'm not starving for a good MMORPG. I have a decent one.
    I'm relatively happy with it too. Is it the best I ever played? No, but it's solid.
    Your 3rd statement is something I don't even know how to respond to. I mean, it's a poll, So yeah, it has negative options. Polls are skewed if they don't pose both ends of the spectrum.
    Your next 2 are stated as absolutes, and therefore they are factually incorrect.

    I mean....I believe what you are trying to say is that you want to see the genre move back to it's origins in game design? But your approach is all wrong.


    PhaserlightJean-Luc_PicardMrMelGibson
  • WizardryWizardry Member EpicPosts: 14,949
    I will speak just for myself giving this opinion.
    I would say i am starving for a new mmropg,.i have one i still love and still play it off/on after 15 years.
    However in saying that,i fully expected the genre to get BETTER,by that i mean every single aspect of design and add MANY new ideas that should be there in a living breathing world.
    So who comes along...Blizzard..WOW,gives us NOTHING but the same old in an easier more shallow package.
    So then what has the market offered us since then?Well VG but trying to add a HQ game with high end graphics was just bogging down machines causing strife and gained a bad rep.

    FF a few years ,we get FFXIV,fails bad out of the gate as i predicted before it was released.Does a rebuild and does quite well.Now the game does advance the genre in a few ways but overall game play is still imo very shallow with instance type boss fights,hand holding markers that remove immersion and realism etc etc.

    So since 2002 or perhaps you can say from 1999 we really have seen VERY little improvement or systems to bring these worlds closer to realistic looking worlds.Gameplay has become so superficial it is a turnoff,END GAME and Raids is the only thing mentioned as being worthy content.

    Long winded point,i don't NEED a new game so badly that i'll buy every new game that comes out and claim it is a GREAT game,but i feel we SHOULD be seeing much better games and yes i would love to play a much better game.



    Hatefull

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • HatefullHatefull Member RarePosts: 1,615
    Kyleran said:
    What would Friday be without an @delete5230 thread?

    Good observation though, has been my experience on these forums games (or gameplay) that exist largely in players memories are the most popular.

    This is closely followed by games not yet created, the less actual information known about them the better they rate in many cases.

    Always at the bottom are games currently available, which many play because...I dunno why, boredom maybe, too much disposable income, masochistic tendencies? 

    No game does well in the harsh, cold light of present day reality but don't worry, 10 years from now many will be remembered far more fondly than they deserve, same was true for classic games.
    I am going to disagree with you here slightly. At least as far as I am concerned. I try to not use the blanket catch-all bullshit like "everyone" flocks to "every" release if it is advertised. 

    I will say this: Even though I remember nearly game breaking bugs, terrible balance, incomplete systems, and a myriad of other issues, SWG is still my favorite game released to date. Why? Because despite all of the issues it was still one of the best-designed games (up to CU) I have played thus far, it was by far the most engaging game I have played to date, and I have never had a more positive community experience than I did in SWG.

    I well remember being so mad I would log out, I well remember being stuck in constant loops waiting for planets to load, I remember all of that crap, it is just that the good far outweighed the bad for me in that game.

    Others can disagree, you can put whatever spin on it you feel you want to. But being honest with myself, these are my feelings. 
    Sensai

    If you want a new idea, go read an old book.

  • btdtbtdt Member RarePosts: 404
    The obvious, I am starving for a good mmorpg 
    The obvious, I am unhappy with the current choices 
    The obvious, I create polls often to prove nothing at all 
    The obvious, F2P is just the latest soapbox that I will use to create topics on  
    The obvious, every mmorpg release attracts ME but I never play them for very long 

    Every day, day in and day out, I think I have the perfect thesis on what's ailing mmorpgs, but all I really do is complain about the same thing.  For some reason people mock my posts, yet I see all my posts as brilliant.

    I cite facts which are obviously made up and have been proven wrong so many times that it would be hard to count, YET I STILL MAKE THESE POSTS over and over.  

    Why can't I stop posting this stuff ?
    Fixed it for you.
    DMKanoklash2defHatefullMrMelGibsonk61977
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 31,035
    This can be wrapped up in one word. "Addiction".

    What is my favorite mmorpg of all time?

    Easy, my favorite is "Addiction"

    Were all just wondering addicted gamers looking for are next fix.
    Apparently my 12 step program was successful, no interest in MMORPGs these days. 

    Further proof, went on a 10 day vacation and left the gaming laptop at home. ...and I didn't miss gaming.

    Heck I even downloaded a game on the iPAD but never even opened it, was content to surf the net and watch Netflix instead.
    gervaise1klash2defHatefullMrMelGibsonceratop001

    "I should run a marathon backwards. So I could see what second place look like" Royce da 5'9"

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, back in EVE until then

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • lahnmirlahnmir Member EpicPosts: 1,866
    Kyleran said:
    This can be wrapped up in one word. "Addiction".

    What is my favorite mmorpg of all time?

    Easy, my favorite is "Addiction"

    Were all just wondering addicted gamers looking for are next fix.
    Apparently my 12 step program was successful, no interest in MMORPGs these days. 

    Further proof, went on a 10 day vacation and left the gaming laptop at home. ...and I didn't miss gaming.

    Heck I even downloaded a game on the iPAD but never even opened it, was content to surf the net and watch Netflix instead.
    Funny you mention that. I am on a 4 week trip through Canada as we speak and every night when the kids are in bed I binge on Monster Hunter Generations Ultimate like its crack. Nothing wrong with me, no sir, just gotta keep that Switch charged.....

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir
    ConstantineMerusMrMelGibson
    'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'

    Kyleran on yours sincerely 


    But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.

    Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
  • Vermillion_RaventhalVermillion_Raventhal Member EpicPosts: 3,150
    Kyleran said:
    What would Friday be without an @delete5230 thread?

    Good observation though, has been my experience on these forums games (or gameplay) that exist largely in players memories are the most popular.

    This is closely followed by games not yet created, the less actual information known about them the better they rate in many cases.

    Always at the bottom are games currently available, which many play because...I dunno why, boredom maybe, too much disposable income, masochistic tendencies? 

    No game does well in the harsh, cold light of present day reality but don't worry, 10 years from now many will be remembered far more fondly than they deserve, same was true for classic games.
    I am just tired of themepark.  Themepark to me should be a side dish.  I want to see some sandbox and Interdependency mixed in.  The quest grind to max level is a tired mechanic.  I don't want to play in a world everyone is solo rushing through everything 

    All of my memories of the genre good and bad came at the hand of interactions with players. I can barely remember what I quests about over the years.  
    kjempff
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 31,035
    lahnmir said:
    Kyleran said:
    This can be wrapped up in one word. "Addiction".

    What is my favorite mmorpg of all time?

    Easy, my favorite is "Addiction"

    Were all just wondering addicted gamers looking for are next fix.
    Apparently my 12 step program was successful, no interest in MMORPGs these days. 

    Further proof, went on a 10 day vacation and left the gaming laptop at home. ...and I didn't miss gaming.

    Heck I even downloaded a game on the iPAD but never even opened it, was content to surf the net and watch Netflix instead.
    Funny you mention that. I am on a 4 week trip through Canada as we speak and every night when the kids are in bed I binge on Monster Hunter Generations Ultimate like its crack. Nothing wrong with me, no sir, just gotta keep that Switch charged.....

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir
    "just for today"


    "I should run a marathon backwards. So I could see what second place look like" Royce da 5'9"

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, back in EVE until then

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • LokeroLokero Member RarePosts: 1,171
    Nibs said:
    When asked "What's your favourite MMORPG of all time?", I don't think "If I played them today, what would be my favourite MMORPG?". I think "In which MMORPG did I have the most fun?"

    I don't have the time I used to. Nor do the people I played with "back then". So playing DAOC or CoX now wouldn't be the same experience as it was then.

    So, I answer "What's your favourite MMORPG of all time?" with "DAoC", as that is the MMO I have the most great memories from. WoW, ESO, or any other MMO launched in the last 10 years doesn't register as a favourite as the playing experience wasn't as good as my time DAoC. Not because the games themselves were necessarily bad, but because my life was different.
    That's where I stand.  I probably spent the most time playing EQ1 and WoW over those earlier years.

    Let me break those 2 down:
       EQ1:  I would probably call this my favorite MMO because I had the best memories of it.  That was largely because it was the first one I really spent much (way too much) time in, and because of the people I was playing it with.  But, in reality, the game itself wasn't overly impressive.  I mean, if that game launched today, it probably would have died in the first year.  The combat alone made the game downright horrible and tedious in a lot of ways, depending on the class you chose.  Playing a melee, for instance, was pretty horrible.  You basically stood there with auto-attack on and mashed 1 button over and over every six seconds.

       WoW:  I spent a lot of time in this game largely because of the friends that carried over from EQ1.  TBH, I never did like Vanilla WoW.  It was a broken game in a lot of ways from the start.  It took them several years to actually fix some of the core problems -- like useless talent trees, etc.
    I quit and returned to WoW several times simply because I had friends who kept playing it.  Honestly, I never genuinely felt a fondness to the game in any way like some of the other MMOs I've played.
    I guess I "liked" it enough to tolerate it and play it for broken periods of time, but I never really got into it the way a lot of people seemed to.  It had too many features I just didn't like.
    The combat was really fluid and well-done though.

    Point being, I spent a lot of time playing both of those games, and neither was an amazing game at its core.  I would probably even argue that WoW was a better game in several ways.  Yet, I would tell people that I loved EQ and was just "eh" on WoW.

    I really don't think either was just an amazing "game", but they were amazing "experiences" for myself and other folks.
    As far as the games go, I'd probably rather see someone design a game more like UO/SWG/AC/ArcheAge, etc, than like the game I loved most.  What does that tell you?

    So, yeah, it's self evident that we loved those old games more, but most people probably realize how dated and tedious and raw they were, in a lot of ways.  I could write pages of issues and flaws the old games had.

    I, for one, am glad that they evolved beyond what they started as, though, I wish they wouldn't have removed all the decent aspects when they tossed out the bad ones.  Everything always gets taken from one extreme to the other.

    And, since we all know Delete only thinks of Pantheon :tongue:, I will say this is where I think they are messing up.  I think they are trying to bring back the community interaction without remembering why the old game design got tossed in the ditch.
    At the end of the day, most of us want a fun game(I assume!) to go along with it, rather than just a chatroom with minor game elements.
  • MisterZebubMisterZebub Member EpicPosts: 2,896


    MrMelGibson


    "Mama's gonna make all of your nightmares come true
    Mama's gonna put all of her fears into you
    Mama's gonna keep you right here under her wing
    She won't let you fly but she might let you sing
    Mama will keep baby cozy and warm
    Ooh babe
    Ooh babe
    Ooh babe of course mama's gonna help build the wall”

  • PhaserlightPhaserlight Member EpicPosts: 2,622
    What's obvious?
    That you don't have a game to pick from?

    Your problem in your post is that it's full of absolutes. 
    Thus you are simply wrong.

    I'm not starving for a good MMORPG. I have a decent one.
    I'm relatively happy with it too. Is it the best I ever played? No, but it's solid.
    Your 3rd statement is something I don't even know how to respond to. I mean, it's a poll, So yeah, it has negative options. Polls are skewed if they don't pose both ends of the spectrum.
    Your next 2 are stated as absolutes, and therefore they are factually incorrect.

    I mean....I believe what you are trying to say is that you want to see the genre move back to it's origins in game design? But your approach is all wrong.


    Not to mention all caps shouting.

    I have a good mmorpg I'm reasonably happy with.

    "The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar
    Authored 131 missions in Vendetta Online

  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer Member EpicPosts: 8,551
    Hatefull said:
    Kyleran said:
    What would Friday be without an @delete5230 thread?

    Good observation though, has been my experience on these forums games (or gameplay) that exist largely in players memories are the most popular.

    This is closely followed by games not yet created, the less actual information known about them the better they rate in many cases.

    Always at the bottom are games currently available, which many play because...I dunno why, boredom maybe, too much disposable income, masochistic tendencies? 

    No game does well in the harsh, cold light of present day reality but don't worry, 10 years from now many will be remembered far more fondly than they deserve, same was true for classic games.
    I am going to disagree with you here slightly. At least as far as I am concerned. I try to not use the blanket catch-all bullshit like "everyone" flocks to "every" release if it is advertised. 

    I will say this: Even though I remember nearly game breaking bugs, terrible balance, incomplete systems, and a myriad of other issues, SWG is still my favorite game released to date. Why? Because despite all of the issues it was still one of the best-designed games (up to CU) I have played thus far, it was by far the most engaging game I have played to date, and I have never had a more positive community experience than I did in SWG.

    I well remember being so mad I would log out, I well remember being stuck in constant loops waiting for planets to load, I remember all of that crap, it is just that the good far outweighed the bad for me in that game.

    Others can disagree, you can put whatever spin on it you feel you want to. But being honest with myself, these are my feelings. 
    And I have to disagree with you......at least about being well designed. 
    The changes had to happen. No question about it. People say they should have left SWG alone.

    But they couldn't. It was fundamentally flawed.....Game-breakingly so.

    The Jedi destroyed it. Too many padawans made the game top heavy and it's player based economy could no longer be supported by the sheer number of people shifting to the Jedi.

    When I left the game, it was starting to show the signs. That was when everyone and their brother were talking about "The Village" in the exact same context as we did in WoW doing "dailys"
    MrMelGibsonPhry
  • TokkenTokken Member RarePosts: 1,852
    Captain Obvious strikes again! Nice OP!  :)
    MrMelGibson
    Warriors are like steel, when you lose your temper you lose your worth.
  • PemminPemmin Member UncommonPosts: 548
    The obvious

    you are not part of the Asian markets nor the mobile market, thus publishers do not care.
  • delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 5,090
    Lokero said:
    Nibs said:
    When asked "What's your favourite MMORPG of all time?", I don't think "If I played them today, what would be my favourite MMORPG?". I think "In which MMORPG did I have the most fun?"

    I don't have the time I used to. Nor do the people I played with "back then". So playing DAOC or CoX now wouldn't be the same experience as it was then.

    So, I answer "What's your favourite MMORPG of all time?" with "DAoC", as that is the MMO I have the most great memories from. WoW, ESO, or any other MMO launched in the last 10 years doesn't register as a favourite as the playing experience wasn't as good as my time DAoC. Not because the games themselves were necessarily bad, but because my life was different.
    That's where I stand.  I probably spent the most time playing EQ1 and WoW over those earlier years.

    Let me break those 2 down:
       EQ1:  I would probably call this my favorite MMO because I had the best memories of it.  That was largely because it was the first one I really spent much (way too much) time in, and because of the people I was playing it with.  But, in reality, the game itself wasn't overly impressive.  I mean, if that game launched today, it probably would have died in the first year.  The combat alone made the game downright horrible and tedious in a lot of ways, depending on the class you chose.  Playing a melee, for instance, was pretty horrible.  You basically stood there with auto-attack on and mashed 1 button over and over every six seconds.

       WoW:  I spent a lot of time in this game largely because of the friends that carried over from EQ1.  TBH, I never did like Vanilla WoW.  It was a broken game in a lot of ways from the start.  It took them several years to actually fix some of the core problems -- like useless talent trees, etc.
    I quit and returned to WoW several times simply because I had friends who kept playing it.  Honestly, I never genuinely felt a fondness to the game in any way like some of the other MMOs I've played.
    I guess I "liked" it enough to tolerate it and play it for broken periods of time, but I never really got into it the way a lot of people seemed to.  It had too many features I just didn't like.
    The combat was really fluid and well-done though.

    Point being, I spent a lot of time playing both of those games, and neither was an amazing game at its core.  I would probably even argue that WoW was a better game in several ways.  Yet, I would tell people that I loved EQ and was just "eh" on WoW.

    I really don't think either was just an amazing "game", but they were amazing "experiences" for myself and other folks.
    As far as the games go, I'd probably rather see someone design a game more like UO/SWG/AC/ArcheAge, etc, than like the game I loved most.  What does that tell you?

    So, yeah, it's self evident that we loved those old games more, but most people probably realize how dated and tedious and raw they were, in a lot of ways.  I could write pages of issues and flaws the old games had.

    I, for one, am glad that they evolved beyond what they started as, though, I wish they wouldn't have removed all the decent aspects when they tossed out the bad ones.  Everything always gets taken from one extreme to the other.

    And, since we all know Delete only thinks of Pantheon :tongue:, I will say this is where I think they are messing up.  I think they are trying to bring back the community interaction without remembering why the old game design got tossed in the ditch.
    At the end of the day, most of us want a fun game(I assume!) to go along with it, rather than just a chatroom with minor game elements.
    Nice read Lokero,  

    With that poll people voted for all the classics they had fond memories of 1999.  No one would want to play severely broken games today.  However they spent a lot of time in them because of the "community style"...… That particular poll is not a good one for happiness level of todays games, BUT many happiness polls were conducted and every time they were negative. 

    One major element that surprised even me.  
    0% for anything new ! 


    More the point of the OP was people here contradict themselves.  
    This always happens in two ways: 
    1) they vote negatively in polls, yet they post that everything is fine. 
    2) they post saying one thing, yet the same poster tells a different story in another.
  • PhaserlightPhaserlight Member EpicPosts: 2,622
    edited October 6
    Lokero said:
    Nibs said:
    When asked "What's your favourite MMORPG of all time?", I don't think "If I played them today, what would be my favourite MMORPG?". I think "In which MMORPG did I have the most fun?"

    I don't have the time I used to. Nor do the people I played with "back then". So playing DAOC or CoX now wouldn't be the same experience as it was then.

    So, I answer "What's your favourite MMORPG of all time?" with "DAoC", as that is the MMO I have the most great memories from. WoW, ESO, or any other MMO launched in the last 10 years doesn't register as a favourite as the playing experience wasn't as good as my time DAoC. Not because the games themselves were necessarily bad, but because my life was different.
    That's where I stand.  I probably spent the most time playing EQ1 and WoW over those earlier years.

    Let me break those 2 down:
       EQ1:  I would probably call this my favorite MMO because I had the best memories of it.  That was largely because it was the first one I really spent much (way too much) time in, and because of the people I was playing it with.  But, in reality, the game itself wasn't overly impressive.  I mean, if that game launched today, it probably would have died in the first year.  The combat alone made the game downright horrible and tedious in a lot of ways, depending on the class you chose.  Playing a melee, for instance, was pretty horrible.  You basically stood there with auto-attack on and mashed 1 button over and over every six seconds.

       WoW:  I spent a lot of time in this game largely because of the friends that carried over from EQ1.  TBH, I never did like Vanilla WoW.  It was a broken game in a lot of ways from the start.  It took them several years to actually fix some of the core problems -- like useless talent trees, etc.
    I quit and returned to WoW several times simply because I had friends who kept playing it.  Honestly, I never genuinely felt a fondness to the game in any way like some of the other MMOs I've played.
    I guess I "liked" it enough to tolerate it and play it for broken periods of time, but I never really got into it the way a lot of people seemed to.  It had too many features I just didn't like.
    The combat was really fluid and well-done though.

    Point being, I spent a lot of time playing both of those games, and neither was an amazing game at its core.  I would probably even argue that WoW was a better game in several ways.  Yet, I would tell people that I loved EQ and was just "eh" on WoW.

    I really don't think either was just an amazing "game", but they were amazing "experiences" for myself and other folks.
    As far as the games go, I'd probably rather see someone design a game more like UO/SWG/AC/ArcheAge, etc, than like the game I loved most.  What does that tell you?

    So, yeah, it's self evident that we loved those old games more, but most people probably realize how dated and tedious and raw they were, in a lot of ways.  I could write pages of issues and flaws the old games had.

    I, for one, am glad that they evolved beyond what they started as, though, I wish they wouldn't have removed all the decent aspects when they tossed out the bad ones.  Everything always gets taken from one extreme to the other.

    And, since we all know Delete only thinks of Pantheon :tongue:, I will say this is where I think they are messing up.  I think they are trying to bring back the community interaction without remembering why the old game design got tossed in the ditch.
    At the end of the day, most of us want a fun game(I assume!) to go along with it, rather than just a chatroom with minor game elements.
    Nice read Lokero,  

    With that poll people voted for all the classics they had fond memories of 1999.  No one would want to play severely broken games today.  However they spent a lot of time in them because of the "community style"...… That particular poll is not a good one for happiness level of todays games, BUT many happiness polls were conducted and every time they were negative. 

    One major element that surprised even me.  
    0% for anything new ! 


    More the point of the OP was people here contradict themselves.  
    This always happens in two ways: 
    1) they vote negatively in polls, yet they post that everything is fine. 
    2) they post saying one thing, yet the same poster tells a different story in another.
    That's not what your OP stated.

    You claimed in general terms that people overwhelmingly are dissatisfied with the state of mmorpgs today citing the availability of negative poll options as evidence (I don't recall reading about the results of these polls in any sort of statistical analysis but never mind).  Your argument was regarding a population, not individuals.

    It was brought up that polls sometimes need negative options or else they are skewed.  Now you are saying individual posters here contradict themselves w.r.t. whether or not they are satisfied.

    ...which is it?

    edit: I feel I've been pretty consistent in my posting, in case It weren't obvious.
    Post edited by Phaserlight on

    "The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar
    Authored 131 missions in Vendetta Online

  • ChildoftheShadowsChildoftheShadows Member UncommonPosts: 253
    Why didn't Pantheon's kickstarters propel it to the top then?

    I love the classics the best, but OPs observation doesn't truly support the market unfortunately.
    Jean-Luc_Picard
  • Jean-Luc_PicardJean-Luc_Picard Member LegendaryPosts: 7,701
    edited October 6
    Why so long ?

    "My opinion based on imaginary numbers and some self proclaimed majority is fact, and this makes me and those who agree with me highly intelligent and everyone else <insert random insult here>"

    Rince and repeat for every delete post.

    Post edited by Jean-Luc_Picard on
    PhaserlightimmodiumRobsolfMrMelGibson
    "The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn in Star Wars.
    After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that nor does the ability to write.
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