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CoE abandons "VoxElyria"

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  • KyleranKyleran Paradise City, FLMember LegendaryPosts: 31,751
    Kyleran said:
    Kyleran said:
    Kyleran said:
    Gotta love some of the responses:

    I must say the concept of saving time by actually creating more iteration steps is great. I hope this works as expected. Caspian might want to publish a book on SBSs workflow and about their system of content creation. I think this could save millions in development costs and change the creation of games.

    and

    Amazing job Caspian and the team.



    Too funny...

    Wow.  But yeah, it's not an issue at all that consumers are being asked to fund projects without any experience or expertise with software development.  And developers aren't taking advantage of that lack of knowledge and expertise at all.  Nope.
    I enjoy slagging COE and Caspian as much as the next guy, but I will say if you take the time to read through the entire linked Dev blog he talks a good game and its understandable why some are praising him. 

    The out of context quips here makes him look more clueless than he probably is at this point.

    I get that at the project's start he was lacking in knowledge and experience, but in this latest blog he appears to have learned quickly and is attempting to make proper course corrections.

    As for not admitting to or directly addressing his past errors,  regardless of his nature it would do him little benefit to tell his current and future supporters how he f-d up previously.

    As noted, right now the game absolutely needs people to keep donating money until something playable can be shown to the world.

    This alledgedly will occur after the completion of 5.0, which they just started on.  Perhaps we'll soon see some fruit from their effort.


    All Kickstarter creatives share one thing in common: they have the charisma to convince consumers they know something or have something nobody else does, and they're willing to bring it to you....  IF you and thousands of others are willing to continually feed them cash for years.

    No accountability.  No oversight.  No risk (Even if they fail, they can just come back later and try again.  Half the project leads for these projects are on their second lives as devs anyways, having already failed spectacularly at some point in the past).
    No worries about me, I haven't bought into a KSer since CU and am not likely to do so again. (Yes, folks, I can be taught) ;)

    All I was trying to say is Caspian has learned to actually come across as more knowledgeable in the past two years and I'm sure he well understands the error of his previous statements.




    Does this revelation include the statement that the tiny team replaced SpatialOS with off the shelf software in just a few weeks/months? 

     
    Yes actually, but he'll never come out and say so, he can't directly agree the promise of 100K concurrent users / automated online avatars is never going to happen.

    At this point doing so would put in peril his only revenue stream which as you noted appears to be falling off.

    It's very likely this latest detailed Dev blog is a calculated response to help restore faith to the supporters and judging from the responses he has succeeded to some degree, at least within the Ivory Tower.

    He's earned a bit of respect from me as well, but I have no real axe to grind here.


    That's the thing: fear of losing funding isn't a justifiable reasoning for withholding information from backers, especially if that information is an acknowledgement that a specific promise won't be met or a feature won't be included.
    Since Ky tossed around the "moral compass" lingo in another thread... I will state that in my mind, anyone with a "moral compass" would be compelled to tell customers as soon as he was aware that his prior promises could not be kept.  I still have seen nothing to hint that he is backing down from the 100k number, but if he did realize it was unattainable then the right thing to do would be to tell customers.  Some of which are pledging money each and every day based on the old info.


    I never argued whether he was any more moral, just that his blog appears to suggest he's learned a few things since it all started.   

    As for the 100K figure sometimes you have to notice what topics devs don't say can speak far more about what is going on.
    StaalBurgher

    "I should run a marathon backwards. So I could see what second place look like" Royce da 5'9"

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing FO76 ATM.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • LokeroLokero Member RarePosts: 1,284
    Kyleran said:

    I enjoy slagging COE and Caspian as much as the next guy, but I will say if you take the time to read through the entire linked Dev blog he talks a good game and its understandable why some are praising him. 

    The out of context quips here makes him look more clueless than he probably is at this point.

    I get that at the project's start he was lacking in knowledge and experience, but in this latest blog he appears to have learned quickly and is attempting to make proper course corrections.
    Well, I certainly hope after all this time that he and the other devs have learned some things about development and it hasn't all been a complete waste of time for them.  It's all a waste of time to the customers, regardless...

    The majority of the problems we've seen from his project management, though, is something even people who never learned to type on a keyboard would have known better than to plan/do.
    And, we are talking about a guy who supposedly worked in the software industry prior to this project.
    So, the staggering levels of inexperience and clueless-ness along the way are just indescribable... and, unfathomable, to be honest.

    If it takes him this long to even figure out that his plans were FUBAR from the get-go, then I find it quite impossible to believe that this project will ever get anywhere.

    Slapshot does like to take some out-of-context snippets to (over)sell the drama and stir up the fans, but he's still hitting the Great Wall-sized target.
    Gdemami
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Boca Raton, FLMember LegendaryPosts: 10,218


    Slapshot does like to take some out-of-context snippets to (over)sell the drama and stir up the fans, but he's still hitting the Great Wall-sized target.
    I prefer to describe it as encouraging folks on both sides to vigorously participate in debate :)

    OG_Zorvan

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer ChairMember EpicPosts: 8,580
    I'll say it again.
    There is no COE and there never will be.
    JamesGoblinSlapshot1188
  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer ChairMember EpicPosts: 8,580
    Lulz.  So it begins.
    Begins?   This has been par for the course since the Kickstarter opened...
    IKR?
    It began this way and it will end this way
  • time007time007 Member UncommonPosts: 1,048
    this site had so much coverage of this game for like 2 years straight.  wall to wall hahah. now its gone. they've moved on to other kickstarters

    IMPORTANT:  Please keep all replies to my posts about GAMING.  Please no negative or backhanded comments directed at me personally.  If you are going to post a reply that includes how you feel about me, please don't bother replying & just ignore my post instead.  I'm on this forum to talk about GAMING.  Thank you.
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  • AnOldFartAnOldFart Member UncommonPosts: 263


    Slapshot does like to take some out-of-context snippets to (over)sell the drama and stir up the fans, but he's still hitting the Great Wall-sized target.
    I prefer to describe it as encouraging folks on both sides to vigorously participate in debate :)

    I would disagree that's what your actually trying to do but everyone is capable of making their own decisions on your motives.

    As for Caspian learning something I agree Ky I think this has been a massive learning experience, it was for me... 

    Personally if I was to develop a game, I would use in engine assets (free and cheap ones) and try to get as much of the base game working(movement, basic combat etc).
    Then I would go to kick starter and try to get funding to finish the project knowing that as soon as you get some custom assets complete you can get your backers into a pre-alpha
    Gdemami
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Boca Raton, FLMember LegendaryPosts: 10,218
    AnOldFart said:


    Slapshot does like to take some out-of-context snippets to (over)sell the drama and stir up the fans, but he's still hitting the Great Wall-sized target.
    I prefer to describe it as encouraging folks on both sides to vigorously participate in debate :)

    I would disagree that's what your actually trying to do but everyone is capable of making their own decisions on your motives.

    As for Caspian learning something I agree Ky I think this has been a massive learning experience, it was for me... 

    Personally if I was to develop a game, I would use in engine assets (free and cheap ones) and try to get as much of the base game working(movement, basic combat etc).
    Then I would go to kick starter and try to get funding to finish the project knowing that as soon as you get some custom assets complete you can get your backers into a pre-alpha
    My goal has always been to convince those that enable Caspiens tilting at windmills to realize that in the absence of a publisher, THEY have to play the role of adult and actually hold him accountable for doing what he says he will do.  

    In in your case, it has worked, to at least a certain extent.

    To me there is a very clear way for a developer to behave:

    Say what you mean
    Do what you say you will do
    Do it relatively close to when you say you will

    When you fail at one of those 3: Be humble and honest and use that failure to learn and not repeat that failure again, and again....

    For the most part I think Caspien has actually followed the first rule, but failed miserably at all the others, and those around him simply enable it which is ultimately very bad for everyone.

    Gdemami

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • GaladournGaladourn AthensMember RarePosts: 1,631
    I'll say it again.
    There is no COE and there never will be.
    I second this

  • WizardryWizardry Ontario, CanadaMember EpicPosts: 15,375
    Trying to read into Caspien imo was at first a bit rough but now easy mode.He is a salesman,was peddling his product,perhaps even to just get it noticed and find a backer/partner who knows the overall scheme but in the end ,just a salesman that had no product for sale just an idea.

    How much of a game he has now,well i still figure it can't be good enough,team is too small,everything seems like an angle to gets funds,it does not look like anything promising is going to come of it.

    He has some nice ideas for a game,still not quite what i am looking for but close,he just needs more vision and a LOT more money.

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • ConstantineMerusConstantineMerus LondonMember EpicPosts: 2,529
    AnOldFart said:


    Slapshot does like to take some out-of-context snippets to (over)sell the drama and stir up the fans, but he's still hitting the Great Wall-sized target.
    I prefer to describe it as encouraging folks on both sides to vigorously participate in debate :)

    I would disagree that's what your actually trying to do but everyone is capable of making their own decisions on your motives.
    I'd say his motives are irrelevant if he's right. Yeah he's on CoE's case like herpes on a medieval hooker, but I can't recall him spreading any false information nor out of place insults. 
    ScorchienMadFrenchieSlapshot1188WellspringGeezerGamerAnOldFartGdemami
    • "One of the most difficult tasks men can perform, however much others may despise it, is the invention of good games and it cannot be done by men out of touch with their instinctive selves." - Carl Jung
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  • ScorchienScorchien Hatboro, PAMember LegendaryPosts: 6,261
    edited October 2018
    AnOldFart said:


    Slapshot does like to take some out-of-context snippets to (over)sell the drama and stir up the fans, but he's still hitting the Great Wall-sized target.
    I prefer to describe it as encouraging folks on both sides to vigorously participate in debate :)

    I would disagree that's what your actually trying to do but everyone is capable of making their own decisions on your motives.
    I'd say his motives are irrelevant if he's right. Yeah he's on CoE's case like herpes on a medieval hooker, but I can't recall him spreading any false information nor out of place insults. 
    Yea, Slap is a pretty smart guy with an even keel when it comes to this stuff , Brings some great insight to the community.. And always has solid info backing up any stance
    Post edited by Scorchien on
    Slapshot1188WellspringConstantineMerusGdemami
  • TorrskTorrsk Member UncommonPosts: 82
    As someone that is a lurker for these forums. Yet someone that has backed CoE, probably more than I should have. Even though not much talking really happens here. I rather like the discussions that does happen. CoE forums have overtime just become an echo chamber. Anytime I share a view, not followed by the majority. It's just smashed into the ground. 

    So while people like Slapshot, do at times come across harsh. I would rather that view. Over this magically one that nothing can go wrong that's been shown on CoE forums. I do only wish more people would even be realistic on the forums over there. While discord is if anything even worse. 
    Slapshot1188KyleranScorchienNyctelios
  • AnOldFartAnOldFart Member UncommonPosts: 263
    edited October 2018
    AnOldFart said:


    Slapshot does like to take some out-of-context snippets to (over)sell the drama and stir up the fans, but he's still hitting the Great Wall-sized target.
    I prefer to describe it as encouraging folks on both sides to vigorously participate in debate :)

    I would disagree that's what your actually trying to do but everyone is capable of making their own decisions on your motives.
    I'd say his motives are irrelevant if he's right. Yeah he's on CoE's case like herpes on a medieval hooker, but I can't recall him spreading any false information nor out of place insults. 
    I posted that in regards to trying to promote debate. He posts to get answers but the way he posts is usually in a devisive way in order to illicit the most responsive (good or bad).

    Whether he is right or not (and I agree he has been right on alot of cases re. Coe, he has also bee wrong on a few occasions).

    But the way he posts does not encourage healthy debate and this last point is the most important one when someone claims to be encouraging people on two sides to vigorously debate, mostly because it leads to insults rather than debate. 
    Post edited by AnOldFart on
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Boca Raton, FLMember LegendaryPosts: 10,218
    edited October 2018
    AnOldFart said:
    AnOldFart said:


    Slapshot does like to take some out-of-context snippets to (over)sell the drama and stir up the fans, but he's still hitting the Great Wall-sized target.
    I prefer to describe it as encouraging folks on both sides to vigorously participate in debate :)

    I would disagree that's what your actually trying to do but everyone is capable of making their own decisions on your motives.
    I'd say his motives are irrelevant if he's right. Yeah he's on CoE's case like herpes on a medieval hooker, but I can't recall him spreading any false information nor out of place insults. 
    I posted that in regards to trying to promote debate. He posts to get answers but the way he posts is usually in a devisive way in order to illicit the most responsive (good or bad).

    Whether he is right or not (and I agree he has been right on alot of cases re. Coe, he has also bee wrong on a few occasions).

    But the way he posts does not encourage healthy debate and this last point is the most important one when someone claims to be encouraging people on two sides to vigorously debate, mostly because it leads to insults rather than debate. 
    Hmm.. not sure what happened to my full post but I’ll try and recreate.

    OK that’s teice I’ve typed a response and it was garbled when posting.  I’ll try again later on a computer.
    Post edited by Slapshot1188 on

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • AnOldFartAnOldFart Member UncommonPosts: 263
    AnOldFart said:
    AnOldFart said:


    Slapshot does like to take some out-of-context snippets to (over)sell the drama and stir up the fans, but he's still hitting the Great Wall-sized target.
    I prefer to describe it as encouraging folks on both sides to vigorously participate in debate :)

    I would disagree that's what your actually trying to do but everyone is capable of making their own decisions on your motives.
    I'd say his motives are irrelevant if he's right. Yeah he's on CoE's case like herpes on a medieval hooker, but I can't recall him spreading any false information nor out of place insults. 
    I posted that in regards to trying to promote debate. He posts to get answers but the way he posts is usually in a devisive way in order to illicit the most responsive (good or bad).

    Whether he is right or not (and I agree he has been right on alot of cases re. Coe, he has also bee wrong on a few occasions).

    But the way he posts does not encourage healthy debate and this last point is the most important one when someone claims to be encouraging people on two sides to vigorously debate, mostly because it leads to insults rather than debate. 
    Hmm.. not sure what happened to my full post but I’ll try and recreate.

    OK that’s teice I’ve typed a response and it was garbled when posting.  I’ll try again later on a computer.
    No problem I have issues with mobile too
    Kyleran
  • KyleranKyleran Paradise City, FLMember LegendaryPosts: 31,751
    Torrsk said:
    As someone that is a lurker for these forums. Yet someone that has backed CoE, probably more than I should have. Even though not much talking really happens here. I rather like the discussions that does happen. CoE forums have overtime just become an echo chamber. Anytime I share a view, not followed by the majority. It's just smashed into the ground. 

    So while people like Slapshot, do at times come across harsh. I would rather that view. Over this magically one that nothing can go wrong that's been shown on CoE forums. I do only wish more people would even be realistic on the forums over there. While discord is if anything even worse. 
    Welcome to the forums,  always great to see people who are active in the COE community join us here for some more open discussions regarding progress on the game.

    I am a member of the official forums but the rules there are tough for me to fathom.

    I was moderated twice in about 10 posts (I think) so decided it wasn't a place for me.

    Also, as a free account there are some annoying restrictions such as being unable to post links which greatly reduced my ability to provide context or confirmation of my points of discussion. 

    I hope you will continue to join us from time to time and know that even when some us appear to be at our most contrarian it is never personal.




    GdemamiNyctelios

    "I should run a marathon backwards. So I could see what second place look like" Royce da 5'9"

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing FO76 ATM.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Boca Raton, FLMember LegendaryPosts: 10,218
    Kyleran said:
    Torrsk said:
    As someone that is a lurker for these forums. Yet someone that has backed CoE, probably more than I should have. Even though not much talking really happens here. I rather like the discussions that does happen. CoE forums have overtime just become an echo chamber. Anytime I share a view, not followed by the majority. It's just smashed into the ground. 

    So while people like Slapshot, do at times come across harsh. I would rather that view. Over this magically one that nothing can go wrong that's been shown on CoE forums. I do only wish more people would even be realistic on the forums over there. While discord is if anything even worse. 
    Welcome to the forums,  always great to see people who are active in the COE community join us here for some more open discussions regarding progress on the game.

    I am a member of the official forums but the rules there are tough for me to fathom.

    I was moderated twice in about 10 posts (I think) so decided it wasn't a place for me.

    Also, as a free account there are some annoying restrictions such as being unable to post links which greatly reduced my ability to provide context or confirmation of my points of discussion. 

    I hope you will continue to join us from time to time and know that even when some us appear to be at our most contrarian it is never personal.




    I echo this.  @Torrsk please be sure to stick around.  Not just for the CoE forum but all the others.  

    Also, please be assured that Caspien and crew read the posts here.  So if you want to make a point but don't want to deal with the Ivory Tower swooping in to "shut you down" this is the place to do so.

     
    GdemamiNyctelios

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 11,252
    Torrsk said:
    CoE forums have overtime just become an echo chamber.
    ...as if MMORPG.COM was any different.
    Slapshot1188WellspringIselinJamesGoblinFlyByKnight
  • KyleranKyleran Paradise City, FLMember LegendaryPosts: 31,751
    Gdemami said:
    Torrsk said:
    CoE forums have overtime just become an echo chamber.
    ...as if MMORPG.COM was any different.
    Now that you've returned, no.

    Welcome back.
    NycteliosConstantineMerus

    "I should run a marathon backwards. So I could see what second place look like" Royce da 5'9"

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing FO76 ATM.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • TorrskTorrsk Member UncommonPosts: 82
    Gdemami said:
    Torrsk said:
    CoE forums have overtime just become an echo chamber.
    ...as if MMORPG.COM was any different.
    I have not been around long enough to see if that's true. But it really can't be worse. Any update comes out the replies are normally "OMFG this is the best thing ever!!!". That can be said by anything SBS says in general I suppose. Though admittedly I did react the same at some given point.

    I am excited to see how map voting rolls out. Well more if it rolls out as well. So used to them missing any dates at this rate. Not that I'm overall liking how it will work either. From the little bits of information I have caught on discord. 
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Boca Raton, FLMember LegendaryPosts: 10,218
    Torrsk said:
    Gdemami said:
    Torrsk said:
    CoE forums have overtime just become an echo chamber.
    ...as if MMORPG.COM was any different.
    I have not been around long enough to see if that's true. But it really can't be worse. Any update comes out the replies are normally "OMFG this is the best thing ever!!!". That can be said by anything SBS says in general I suppose. Though admittedly I did react the same at some given point.

    I am excited to see how map voting rolls out. Well more if it rolls out as well. So used to them missing any dates at this rate. Not that I'm overall liking how it will work either. From the little bits of information I have caught on discord. 
    The map voting, like everything else in game... will cater to the high roller donors.  The amount your vote counts is weighed by the amount of cash you have spent (and subsequent "points" earned).  So literally... one person's vote is worth 1000x another person's.

    Wonderful community they are establishing...

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • NycteliosNyctelios Novo Hamburgo - RS - BrazilMember EpicPosts: 3,059
    edited October 2018
    Gdemami said:
    Torrsk said:
    CoE forums have overtime just become an echo chamber.
    ...as if MMORPG.COM was any different.
    Not really. Some people may think that but we have all sorts of players here. You'll find people supporting a game/project while others disagree with it's course.

    But some, yes. Some live in an echo chamber. But that's more about their stubborness and real life approach to other ways of thinking.

    And some, yes, try to enforce this echo chamber mentality by 'wtf'-ing or LOL-ing every post they disagree with without explaining why ;)
    Post edited by Nyctelios on
    GdemamiWellspringSlapshot1188MadFrenchie
    - Steam ID Discord ID: Night # 6102
  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 11,252
    Torrsk said:
    But it really can't be worse. 
    It is very much the same, just opposite side of the spectrum: OMFG these devs are the worst idiots ever!!!

    Echo chamber of armchair developers...proof is in the pudding, this very thread - sheer ignorance and lack of any critical thinking.

    It just likely resonates better with you(some) but bottom line remains the same.
    IselinShaigh
  • IselinIselin Vancouver, BCMember LegendaryPosts: 12,010
    Gdemami said:
    Torrsk said:
    CoE forums have overtime just become an echo chamber.
    ...as if MMORPG.COM was any different.
    I'm sure bumptious knobheads agree with you.
    KyleranJamesGoblin
    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED
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