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CoE abandons "VoxElyria"

Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Boca Raton, FLMember LegendaryPosts: 10,203
edited October 2018 in Chronicles of Elyria
This blog is even harder to get through than most of Caspien's stuff AND the baseball playoffs are on so please feel free to dig in and correct anything below if I get it wrong:

It seems like they discovered (just like we said way back when they announced VoxElyria) that spending time developing for a Voxel system that would not be used in the main game was an utter waste:

https://chroniclesofelyria.com/blog/28843/Adventure-Completion-From-Pre-to-Alpha

First, while the voxel format allowed us to quickly create gameplay mechanics without concern for the assets, the mechanics weren't 1:1. For example, due to the camera position, several of the user experiences in CoE necessitated different implementations between CoE and VoxElyria. For example, combat, crafting, and world-interaction, arguably three of the most important systems in the game, had to be slightly different between VoxElyria and CoE.

Second, while the assets themselves could be created quickly, it prevented us from effectively visualizing some of the more advanced mechanics. For example, we couldn't easily animate the voxel models, so things that required animations were difficult to validate. Likewise, because they were voxel models, things like the equipment and layering system couldn't be effectively replicated in the VoxElyria client.

And finally, while we didn't have to use WebGL (and a web-based game-engine) for VoxElyria, it naturally evolved that way from Elyria2D. This meant that while the client-side implementation of the mechanics could be the same between CoE and ElyriaMUD, any features we wanted to test which required tighter client-integration would need to be either ported between the clients, or implemented twice.

---

No shit Caspien.  It took you YEARS to figure this out?  Anyhow... it continues:
---

We had a long conversation with the leadership, designers, and content team and decided there had to be a better way. To begin with, we recognized the value in having the low-poly, low-fidelity client, but we needed to make sure a few constraints were put in place. They were:

  • The client had to use the same technology as CoE
  • The client had to use the same animation pipeline
  • The client had to be able to utilize the same UI/UX gameplay experience as CoE
  • The client had to allow for the same rapid development of assets we had before

When all was said and done, we settled on keeping the idea of having low-poly assets, but moved back into UE4. And instead of developing voxel models, we decided to use low-poly meshes that can be developed even quicker than the voxel models we were using before. Of course, it comes at a cost to require the content team to develop assets for us, but the reality is, it's faster and more resource efficient to have the content team develop the assets than the designers and engineers, especially when it means we don't have to duplicate the UI/UX between the pre-Alpha client and CoE. It's also important to be flexible, and willing to reallocate work as necessary as our internal resources change. Fortunately, as you'll see below, our artist really enjoy working in the new client, and have gone wild creating amazing new content.

So with all that out of the way, the content team has been working on assets in Release 0.4.0 for our new pre-Alpha client. Since it's doesn't use voxels anymore, we couldn't really call it VoxElyria any longer. So we just call it Pre-Elyria, or "Prelyria."

---

So there you have it...  no more VoxElyria which we told him was a waste of time but he stubbornly refused to listen.  Instead, The Ivory Tower defended it and lapped up his words about how it would speed development...  Yeah, that sure backfired didn't it?


Now we wait for "PreElyria"... what an utter and total joke this game's development has become...


"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

Post edited by Slapshot1188 on
KyleranJamesGoblinConstantineMerusZoeMcCloskeyWaancraftseekerWellspringGdemamiEponyxDamorGaladournand 6 others.
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Comments

  • ConstantineMerusConstantineMerus LondonMember EpicPosts: 2,529
    A dream, an idea, and a plan walk into a bar and ask the bar's patrons to pay for their drinks. 

    When the bar is closing down the plan is singing and dancing alongside the patrons, and they decide to join an after hours party to keep the fun going. 

    The idea shakes hands and exchange numbers with an old patron to meet up again later. 

    The dream is found by the barkeep in the men's room; blacked out, head in the toilet, drowning in its vomit. 
    JamesGoblinGaladournYashaXkitaradtinoberserkTorval
    • "One of the most difficult tasks men can perform, however much others may despise it, is the invention of good games and it cannot be done by men out of touch with their instinctive selves." - Carl Jung
    • Song of the Week: One Second from One Second (1997) by Paradise Lost
    • Gaming Timeline: Arcade, Commodore 64, Amiga 500, SEGA, IBM, PS, PC, PS2, More PCs, PS3, Giant PC, PS4, No More PCs, PS4 Pro. 
    • Adopted @Kyleran as my virtual father - I put him in my signature since he worries about me all the time and this way he can keep track of me when I talk to strangers here!
    • Favorite Drink: Bruichladdich Black Art 5th 1992
    • Currently Playing: Spider-Man: Turf Wars / The Division farewell tour / Grim Fandango Remastered / Aven Colony
  • KyleranKyleran Paradise City, FLMember LegendaryPosts: 31,736
    edited October 2018
    As if they want folks to believe there ever really was a functional VoxElyria created in the first place.  

    These folks really are first class at roleplaying developers.

    Or clowns.




    Post edited by Kyleran on
    ConstantineMeruscraftseekerWellspringGdemamiSlapshot1188EponyxDamorYashaXMadFrenchieNycteliosGeezerGamer

    "I should run a marathon backwards. So I could see what second place look like" Royce da 5'9"

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing FO76 ATM.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • Solar_ProphetSolar_Prophet Columbus, OHMember RarePosts: 1,918
    Kyleran said:
    As if they want folks to believe there ever really was a functional VoxElyria created in the first place.  

    These folks really are first class at roleplaying developers.

    Or clowns.




    I think they need to go back to their old jobs
    craftseekerKyleranPemmin

    AN' DERE AIN'T NO SUCH FING AS ENUFF DAKKA, YA GROT! Enuff'z more than ya got an' less than too much an' there ain't no such fing as too much dakka. Say dere is, and me Squiggoff'z eatin' tonight!

    We are born of the blood. Made men by the blood. Undone by the blood. Our eyes are yet to open. FEAR THE OLD BLOOD. 

    #IStandWithVic

  • cochscochs Kirkland, WAMember UncommonPosts: 84
    So basically they are moving to using prototype quality assets in the engine, to create functionality.

    I mean if you even have to be told to do that, you have no business in this business.  It's not even game dev 101, it's like stuff that players know (as many have demonstrated here).

    I'm still going with Hanlon's Razor here, although it's a close call at this point.
    craftseekerGdemami
  • AlbatroesAlbatroes Member EpicPosts: 5,599
    "No shit Caspien.  It took you YEARS to figure this out?"

    Lets be honest here, he knew, he just knew he could extend funding without actually producing anything. Now he's gonna just go onto his next 'phase' of his plan, but this whole thing will just end up being a bust in the end. There's no real game in development, just easy cash from suckers.

    craftseekerGdemami
  • WaanWaan AmsterdamMember UncommonPosts: 85
    I'm amazed every. single. time. 

    OT: Are there still people buying into this, or are they just riding on the funds they already acquired? 
    craftseeker
  • XodicXodic RealityMember RarePosts: 917
    He's either incompetent or scamming. Denying one admits to the other.
    craftseeker
  • SpottyGekkoSpottyGekko JohannesburgMember EpicPosts: 6,773
    "...but you haven't seen my Gantt charts..." - Jeromy Walsh

    Yeah, riiiiight...

    Arrogance backed by a total lack of experience in actual MMO development have been a hallmark of this project so far.

    It would appear that all the "miracle mechanics" (SpatialOS, VoxElyria, etc.) that were used to justify the claimed record-time development actually ended up making things take LONGER !
    Not to mention the money that was burned chasing those mirages...
    craftseekerGdemamiGaladournSlapshot1188Kyleran
  • DakeruDakeru Member EpicPosts: 3,647
    I read through those comments on the blog and was laughing.

    2 years ago we said this was a bad idea because it will just waste more time and money.
    We were labeled as haters who have no idea.

    Now the master abandons his flashy extras and is praised for his wisdom.
    craftseekerYashaXGdemami
    Harbinger of Fools
  • WellspringWellspring Charlotte, NCMember EpicPosts: 1,199
    It's also important to note that ElyriaMud is no longer planned to be released to the public. So, you might as well say that's been cancelled as well.

    Without being able to deliver a single thing on time, ever ... they've somehow bought themselves more time -- with a few low poly screenshots (not even a video!). 
    craftseekerYashaXNycteliosKyleranGdemami
    --------------------------------------------
  • lahnmirlahnmir UtrechtMember EpicPosts: 2,051
    Surprise!

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir
    YashaXNyctelioscraftseeker
    'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'

    Kyleran on yours sincerely 


    But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.

    Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Boca Raton, FLMember LegendaryPosts: 10,203
    Dakeru said:
    I read through those comments on the blog and was laughing.

    2 years ago we said this was a bad idea because it will just waste more time and money.
    We were labeled as haters who have no idea.

    Now the master abandons his flashy extras and is praised for his wisdom.
    And the usual suspects who haunted this place for over a year... arguing with us... all disappear at the same time.  Most likely when they got this info months ago on the super secret high donor private forums. 

    I will I’ll have to go back and find Caspien’s quote to me on these forums about VoxElyria.  It was about a year ago.  It should prove humorous at this point. At least it would if it weren’t for the fact that his utter incompetence puts other people’s livelihood in danger.
    craftseekerGdemami

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Boca Raton, FLMember LegendaryPosts: 10,203
    Dakeru said:
    I read through those comments on the blog and was laughing.

    2 years ago we said this was a bad idea because it will just waste more time and money.
    We were labeled as haters who have no idea.

    Now the master abandons his flashy extras and is praised for his wisdom.
    And never forget this: 


    YashaX

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • EponyxDamorEponyxDamor Member RarePosts: 687
    No surprise, really.

    Hows that timeline looking these days?
  • WellspringWellspring Charlotte, NCMember EpicPosts: 1,199
    No surprise, really.

    Hows that timeline looking these days?
    Well, they are crossing things off the list... :wink:
    NycteliosmklinicLokero
    --------------------------------------------
  • EponyxDamorEponyxDamor Member RarePosts: 687
    No surprise, really.

    Hows that timeline looking these days?
    Well, they are crossing things off the list... :wink:
    Crossing things off and erasing them entirely are slightly different. ;)
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Boca Raton, FLMember LegendaryPosts: 10,203
    edited October 2018
    Here you go.  One year ago Caspien posted this message in response to me.  I think it's the last time he publically posted here.  Take note of the last half of the conversation where he defends VoxElyria.  He even goes as far as to suggest that it was disingenuous to say that developing VoxElyria was a waste of time and resources.


    https://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/comment/7239021/#Comment_7239021

    How many times does the guy RolePlaying as an MMORPG Developer have to be so utterly wrong before the Ivory Tower starts to listen?


    PS: For bonus giggles go read his earlier post where he says:

    "All that aside, the company is making huge progress, the game is coming along nicely, and our Alpha 1 backers will be getting into the game using the VoxElyria client as early as January."

    Note that post was Oct 2017...

    Post edited by Slapshot1188 on
    WellspringMadFrenchieNyctelioscraftseekerGdemami

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • AlbatroesAlbatroes Member EpicPosts: 5,599
    Here you go.  One year ago Caspien posted this message in response to me.  I think it's the last time he publically posted here.  Take note of the last half of the conversation where he defends VoxElyria.  He even goes as far as to suggest that it was disingenuous to say that developing VoxElyria was a waste of time and resources.


    https://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/comment/7239021/#Comment_7239021

    How many times does the guy RolePlaying as an MMORPG Developer have to be so utterly wrong before the Ivory Tower starts to listen?


    PS: For bonus giggles go read his earlier post where he says:

    "All that aside, the company is making huge progress, the game is coming along nicely, and our Alpha 1 backers will be getting into the game using the VoxElyria client as early as January."

    Note that post was Oct 2017...

    Lol that was a good one "Role playing as a MMO developer." I'm gonna use that in some of these other threads from now on.
  • GaladournGaladourn AthensMember RarePosts: 1,631
    edited October 2018
    Well, no surprises here. They have no engine, no assets, no game, but are full of ideas, ambition and passion.

    We know how that usually ends...
    Post edited by Galadourn on
    Gdemami

  • YashaXYashaX Baldurs GateMember EpicPosts: 2,395
    Good to see they are making some real progress :)
    GaladournWellspringSlapshot1188
    ....
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Boca Raton, FLMember LegendaryPosts: 10,203
    Albatroes said:
    Here you go.  One year ago Caspien posted this message in response to me.  I think it's the last time he publically posted here.  Take note of the last half of the conversation where he defends VoxElyria.  He even goes as far as to suggest that it was disingenuous to say that developing VoxElyria was a waste of time and resources.


    https://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/comment/7239021/#Comment_7239021

    How many times does the guy RolePlaying as an MMORPG Developer have to be so utterly wrong before the Ivory Tower starts to listen?


    PS: For bonus giggles go read his earlier post where he says:

    "All that aside, the company is making huge progress, the game is coming along nicely, and our Alpha 1 backers will be getting into the game using the VoxElyria client as early as January."

    Note that post was Oct 2017...

    Lol that was a good one "Role playing as a MMO developer." I'm gonna use that in some of these other threads from now on.
    Check my signature  ;)

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • ScotScot UKMember EpicPosts: 10,081
    edited October 2018
    I just dip into these threads so my take on concerns about CoE comes from two sources, correct me if I have the wrong up coming MMO here. :)

    A MMO needs to be able to understand what MMO gameplay is like and what their players are like. You naturally assume that's the case, surely no one who does not understand this would be making a MMO.

    I was surprised at their reaction to players picking there in game names which were some sort of poke at other players or developers. Their reaction seemed more apt to finding their MMO was now a communications hub for neo-Nazi groups.

    Then they had a fund raiser where a penalty was going to be imposed on your server or something unless you paid up. The CEO talked about directing his "mice" no doubt he was surprised when some players wanted their server to have this penalty as they wanted a more difficult MMO. No realisation that their player base might get pissed off by being made to act like mice?

    Remember I just dip in, hardly see any of these, so to see two was really worrying. As far as I know none of the other upcoming MMOs including those out like Albion and SotA ever showed such a lack of understanding of how players think and behave. What else I have seen has impressed me, but having people at the top who seem to have no idea what it is to play a MMO means no matter what the reviews, I will only think of joining in several months after launch.
    Post edited by Scot on
    WellspringKyleranGdemami

     25 Agrees

    You received 25 Agrees. You're posting some good content. Great!

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    Now Doesn't That Make You Feel All Warm And Fuzzy Inside? :P

  • WellspringWellspring Charlotte, NCMember EpicPosts: 1,199
    Scot said:
    I just dip into these threads so my take on concerns about CoE comes from two sources, correct me if I have the wrong up coming MMO here. :)

    A MMO needs to be able to understand what MMO gameplay is like and what their players are like. You naturally assume that's the case, surely no one who does not understand this would be making a MMO.

    I was surprised at their reaction to players picking there in game names which were some sort of poke at other players or developers. Their reaction seemed more apt to finding their MMO was now a communications hub for neo-Nazi groups.

    Then they had a fund raiser where a penalty was going to be imposed on your server or something unless you paid up. The CEO talked about directing his "mice" no doubt he was surprised when some players wanted their server to have this penalty as they wanted a more difficult MMO. No realisation that their player base might get pissed off by being made to act like mice?

    Remember I just dip in, hardly see any of these, so to see two was really worrying. As far as I know none of the other upcoming MMOs including those out like Albion and SotA ever showed such a lack of understanding of how players think and behave. What else I have seen has impressed me, but having people at the top who seem to have no idea what it is to play a MMO means no matter what the reviews, I will only think of joining in several months after launch.
    Yep, you have the right MMO.
    --------------------------------------------
  • GaladournGaladourn AthensMember RarePosts: 1,631
    Scot said:
     no matter what the reviews, I will only think of joining in several months after launch.
    that's assuming there will actually be a game at some point that will be released....
    Kyleran

  • NycteliosNyctelios Novo Hamburgo - RS - BrazilMember EpicPosts: 3,055
    Oh no... The scammy thing is looking scammy. Oh, no. Good lord, the children!
    EponyxDamorScot
    - Steam ID Discord ID: Night # 6102
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