DDO is a very complex MMO, not just in character building, but also in gear, stats, skills, combos, effects, as well as many mobs having their own abilities, challenges, special attacks, immunities, and the whole game is about checks and balances. There will always be trade-offs, in DDO, and choices you need to make.
As such, anyone that thinks something as mundane as the Sword of Shadows is the BiS gear, never played the game at all. On top of that, I did already mention that weapon in my previous post about DDO, which just shows some people were not paying attention.
Anyway.
In fact, DDO is so complex that it does not really have “Situational” BiS gear, you have “Mob Type Specific” gear, and you end up using that to handle individual mobs, but they don’t come at you in neat packages so you get to use what you have perfected for this situation.
Case in point, just to get a feel for what DDO does to you. You start out in a small fishing village in Korthos, and you go into a starting Dungeon, and this is where you learn that you meet your first Undead, which are Skeletons and Zombies.. now.. get this.. Skeletons are resistance to Slashing Weapons, so you need to use a Blunt to cut them down, Zombies are Resistant to Blunt and you need to use Slashing to Cut them down, and they come at you together.
This is your wake-up call that you do not have BiS weapons in this game, you will need to make choices, and deal with it, there is no “Catch All” here.
And this is a Starting Level Dungeon in DDO, and it only gets worse as you go higher up.
Like for example, you might find yourself face to face with a cluster of Smoke, Fire, and Ice imps all in the same room, several of each, all want you dead, and each one has its own unique immunity, abilities and attacks.
Wanna guess what the Fire Imp Shoots at you?
So, knowing you are going to take a fire-ball to the face walking in, (if not several), this is a great time to pause and think before you charge in, do you use your Fire Resist Breastplate, or just keep on the Highest AC plate you have and hope to dodge/live though the attack? Well.. the Fire Resist Plate, would make it so the Fire Imp hurts less, but then the Ice and Smoke are still going to rip into you fully as the Fire Resist plate is not the best AC, you had to make a trade off there, AC for Resists. So.. Ice Blasts might hurt less then fire balls, are you ready to walk in and find out.. and deal with the choice you made?
Well no matter what you do, you’re going to settle, you are going to make a choice at this point, as there really is no BiS item that helps you here, you’re going to make a concession on how you want to handle this encounter, and your choice is not going to be the same as the person next to you, it does not make your choice better or worse than theirs, it was just how you chose deal with the situation.
Next..
Wanna Guess what the Fire Imp is immune to?
Well your Flaming Great Sword is not going to be the best weapon to use on the Fire Imp, but it might be your best weapon to use on the Ice Imp.. so maybe you break out that trusty BiS Sword of Shadows, and end up doing less damage to the Ice Imp and more to the Fire? But keep in mind it has a 50% chance to miss the smoke imp. So, that is a decision you will have to make, and no matter what you do, You’re going to make a trade-off here, the question is, what will it be.
Well, we can see in those situations, you need to make a call on what works for you, what trade- offs you will take, and a trade-off is the counter balance to BiS.
If you need to make a trade-off, it's not BiS.
So by complex mobs, and loot tables, a game like DDO makes you think about encounters, makes you make hard choices, and in the end, you will need to make a concession, you will need to accept that you are going to have make some trade-offs in how you handle encounters, and in some cases you will fall short, no matter how much gear you dragged along with you.
And while make no mistake DDO does have a lot of gear, and a lot of high end hard to get, farm and raid till your eyes bleed gear, no matter what you have, it really will come down to a choice of what effects and abilities you will make trade offs for, for each encounter. It is not as simple as Your Sword is +5 and mine is +6, ergo mine is better. And just like people that look at the Sword of Shadows, and think that is the BiS weapon, they have no idea how deep the rabbit hole goes in this game. So, in a way, DDO can give the illusion of BiS items, bit in its complexity it really does not have any.
I hope this is helped the other people on this forum that were wondering how a game can be made that does not have BiS gear.
It can be done either thought simplicity, like GW2 or vast Complexity like DDO.
Those are two examples I have, I am sure others might have more.
DDO always had BiS for xyz "build" gear. This also included BiS for utility builds which is why you see 10 slotbars for gear swaps/clickies etc etc.
The big variety in builds made BiS more modular though which might make some people think there was no BiS gear but there was it was not just limited like in some games where this weapon was "the BIS" for this class.
Hell if you did lots of past life grind you even have your twinking gear which was basically BiS for quick leveling runs from 1 to 20 without being too class or build specific.
Wow, and I thought the way people abused and violated the term P2W was bad.
So let me see if I have this right, just so I can grasp where you are coming from, to you, having BiS gear means needing to swap that single slot item between several different various equally important and powerful items?
Just so we are clear what you think BiS (Best in Slot) means?
I guess we shall just disagree on what "Best" means.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
If you are going to argue about the intricacies of a game, that requires you have at least some inner working of how the game functions or it's community, at least have some clue about the game you want to argue about, otherwise that 5 "AH HA!" google search you did to try and prove your point, just parades your ignorance to the person you are arguing against, it does not prove your point, and all too often, because you don't know what you are talking about, it just shows how clueless you really are.
Just a PSA.
Also, I'll say this again.
Situational Gear, is not BiS.
I don't care how much someone wants to cry, throw a fit, or have a tantrum, if I have to change my gear for various different encounter, then my gear was not BiS. Best in Slot, means this is the Best Item you can Slot.. This is the last piece of gear I should ever need to own. Anything else.. is just not BiS.
You have to understand BiS is not limited the one ring to rule them all or the one weapon for that class better than all.
In DDO for example there has always been meta builds which more or less required BiS gear to achieve your goal be it dungeon specific runs, just quick past life runs without the need to gear swap every level, etc etc.
There was even a time where lots of elite "groups" would ask you to link such and such gear before you were accepted into raids if you were new or unknown to the inner circle of your particular server.
If you want to limit BiS to your very narrow definition then sure your right but that's not how most people see it.
Lots and lots of the builds REQUIRED specific gear to work for a particular build to shine and be able to function as intended.
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
DDO is a very complex MMO, not just in character building, but also in gear, stats, skills, combos, effects, as well as many mobs having their own abilities, challenges, special attacks, immunities, and the whole game is about checks and balances. There will always be trade-offs, in DDO, and choices you need to make.
As such, anyone that thinks something as mundane as the Sword of Shadows is the BiS gear, never played the game at all. On top of that, I did already mention that weapon in my previous post about DDO, which just shows some people were not paying attention.
Anyway.
In fact, DDO is so complex that it does not really have “Situational” BiS gear, you have “Mob Type Specific” gear, and you end up using that to handle individual mobs, but they don’t come at you in neat packages so you get to use what you have perfected for this situation.
Case in point, just to get a feel for what DDO does to you. You start out in a small fishing village in Korthos, and you go into a starting Dungeon, and this is where you learn that you meet your first Undead, which are Skeletons and Zombies.. now.. get this.. Skeletons are resistance to Slashing Weapons, so you need to use a Blunt to cut them down, Zombies are Resistant to Blunt and you need to use Slashing to Cut them down, and they come at you together.
This is your wake-up call that you do not have BiS weapons in this game, you will need to make choices, and deal with it, there is no “Catch All” here.
And this is a Starting Level Dungeon in DDO, and it only gets worse as you go higher up.
Like for example, you might find yourself face to face with a cluster of Smoke, Fire, and Ice imps all in the same room, several of each, all want you dead, and each one has its own unique immunity, abilities and attacks.
Wanna guess what the Fire Imp Shoots at you?
So, knowing you are going to take a fire-ball to the face walking in, (if not several), this is a great time to pause and think before you charge in, do you use your Fire Resist Breastplate, or just keep on the Highest AC plate you have and hope to dodge/live though the attack? Well.. the Fire Resist Plate, would make it so the Fire Imp hurts less, but then the Ice and Smoke are still going to rip into you fully as the Fire Resist plate is not the best AC, you had to make a trade off there, AC for Resists. So.. Ice Blasts might hurt less then fire balls, are you ready to walk in and find out.. and deal with the choice you made?
Well no matter what you do, you’re going to settle, you are going to make a choice at this point, as there really is no BiS item that helps you here, you’re going to make a concession on how you want to handle this encounter, and your choice is not going to be the same as the person next to you, it does not make your choice better or worse than theirs, it was just how you chose deal with the situation.
Next..
Wanna Guess what the Fire Imp is immune to?
Well your Flaming Great Sword is not going to be the best weapon to use on the Fire Imp, but it might be your best weapon to use on the Ice Imp.. so maybe you break out that trusty BiS Sword of Shadows, and end up doing less damage to the Ice Imp and more to the Fire? But keep in mind it has a 50% chance to miss the smoke imp. So, that is a decision you will have to make, and no matter what you do, You’re going to make a trade-off here, the question is, what will it be.
Well, we can see in those situations, you need to make a call on what works for you, what trade- offs you will take, and a trade-off is the counter balance to BiS.
If you need to make a trade-off, it's not BiS.
So by complex mobs, and loot tables, a game like DDO makes you think about encounters, makes you make hard choices, and in the end, you will need to make a concession, you will need to accept that you are going to have make some trade-offs in how you handle encounters, and in some cases you will fall short, no matter how much gear you dragged along with you.
And while make no mistake DDO does have a lot of gear, and a lot of high end hard to get, farm and raid till your eyes bleed gear, no matter what you have, it really will come down to a choice of what effects and abilities you will make trade offs for, for each encounter. It is not as simple as Your Sword is +5 and mine is +6, ergo mine is better. And just like people that look at the Sword of Shadows, and think that is the BiS weapon, they have no idea how deep the rabbit hole goes in this game. So, in a way, DDO can give the illusion of BiS items, bit in its complexity it really does not have any.
I hope this is helped the other people on this forum that were wondering how a game can be made that does not have BiS gear.
It can be done either thought simplicity, like GW2 or vast Complexity like DDO.
Those are two examples I have, I am sure others might have more.
DDO always had BiS for xyz "build" gear. This also included BiS for utility builds which is why you see 10 slotbars for gear swaps/clickies etc etc.
The big variety in builds made BiS more modular though which might make some people think there was no BiS gear but there was it was not just limited like in some games where this weapon was "the BIS" for this class.
Hell if you did lots of past life grind you even have your twinking gear which was basically BiS for quick leveling runs from 1 to 20 without being too class or build specific.
Wow, and I thought the way people abused and violated the term P2W was bad.
So let me see if I have this right, just so I can grasp where you are coming from, to you, having BiS gear means needing to swap that single slot item between several different various equally important and powerful items?
Just so we are clear what you think BiS (Best in Slot) means?
I guess we shall just disagree on what "Best" means.
Cmon Ungood you are smart guy , i know you get this ..
If you have 2 top tier Bows ... And they are identical in every way for this excercise , except , one of them does 35% Fire damage Bonus , and the other is 35% air damage Bonus
You are going to fight a raid boss ...
Its a Giant Tree its fire resist is quite low and will take extra damage...
Which Bow you taking ...Remeber they are Top Tier weapons only difference is it bonus elemental damage
Im guessing you would take the Fire enhanced weapon ...
congratulations , you just equipped a BIS situational weapon
Wow, and I thought the way people abused and violated the term P2W was bad.
So let me see if I have this right, just so I can grasp where you are coming from, to you, having BiS gear means needing to swap that single slot item between several different various equally important and powerful items?
Just so we are clear what you think BiS (Best in Slot) means?
I guess we shall just disagree on what "Best" means.
Cmon Ungood you are smart guy , i know you get this ..
If you have 2 top tier Bows ... And they are identical in every way for this excercise , except , one of them does 35% Fire damage Bonus , and the other is 35% air damage Bonus
You are going to fight a raid boss ...
Its a Giant Tree its fire resist is quite low and will take extra damage...
Which Bow you taking ...Remeber they are Top Tier weapons only difference is it bonus elemental damage
Im guessing you would take the Fire enhanced weapon ...
congratulations , you just equipped a BIS situational weapon
Indeed.
I think some people think...welp because some games suck when it comes to customization and build choice, as in every rogue, knight, mage etc has very very minor differences in skills and stats and therefore the game doesn't have much variety in gear choice so at lvl 40 the super duper slayer set is the BiS till you hit lvl 50 where the super duper dragon slayer set is BiS that means games like DDO don't have BiS gear.
They do though but the BiS is very very dependent on your build and what you plan on running or your overall goal is.
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
Wow, and I thought the way people abused and violated the term P2W was bad.
So let me see if I have this right, just so I can grasp where you are coming from, to you, having BiS gear means needing to swap that single slot item between several different various equally important and powerful items?
Just so we are clear what you think BiS (Best in Slot) means?
I guess we shall just disagree on what "Best" means.
Cmon Ungood you are smart guy , i know you get this ..
If you have 2 top tier Bows ... And they are identical in every way for this excercise , except , one of them does 35% Fire damage Bonus , and the other is 35% air damage Bonus
You are going to fight a raid boss ...
Its a Giant Tree its fire resist is quite low and will take extra damage...
Which Bow you taking ...Remeber they are Top Tier weapons only difference is it bonus elemental damage
Im guessing you would take the Fire enhanced weapon ...
congratulations , you just equipped a BIS situational weapon
Indeed.
I think some people think...welp because some games suck when it comes to customization and build choice, as in every rogue, knight, mage etc has very very minor differences in skills and stats and therefore the game doesn't have much variety in gear choice so at lvl 40 the super duper slayer set is the BiS till you hit lvl 50 where the super duper dragon slayer set is BiS that means games like DDO don't have BiS gear.
They do though but the BiS is very very dependent on your build and what you plan on running or your overall goal is.
DDO is a very complex MMO, not just in character building, but also in gear, stats, skills, combos, effects, as well as many mobs having their own abilities, challenges, special attacks, immunities, and the whole game is about checks and balances. There will always be trade-offs, in DDO, and choices you need to make.
As such, anyone that thinks something as mundane as the Sword of Shadows is the BiS gear, never played the game at all. On top of that, I did already mention that weapon in my previous post about DDO, which just shows some people were not paying attention.
Anyway.
In fact, DDO is so complex that it does not really have “Situational” BiS gear, you have “Mob Type Specific” gear, and you end up using that to handle individual mobs, but they don’t come at you in neat packages so you get to use what you have perfected for this situation.
Case in point, just to get a feel for what DDO does to you. You start out in a small fishing village in Korthos, and you go into a starting Dungeon, and this is where you learn that you meet your first Undead, which are Skeletons and Zombies.. now.. get this.. Skeletons are resistance to Slashing Weapons, so you need to use a Blunt to cut them down, Zombies are Resistant to Blunt and you need to use Slashing to Cut them down, and they come at you together.
This is your wake-up call that you do not have BiS weapons in this game, you will need to make choices, and deal with it, there is no “Catch All” here.
And this is a Starting Level Dungeon in DDO, and it only gets worse as you go higher up.
Like for example, you might find yourself face to face with a cluster of Smoke, Fire, and Ice imps all in the same room, several of each, all want you dead, and each one has its own unique immunity, abilities and attacks.
Wanna guess what the Fire Imp Shoots at you?
So, knowing you are going to take a fire-ball to the face walking in, (if not several), this is a great time to pause and think before you charge in, do you use your Fire Resist Breastplate, or just keep on the Highest AC plate you have and hope to dodge/live though the attack? Well.. the Fire Resist Plate, would make it so the Fire Imp hurts less, but then the Ice and Smoke are still going to rip into you fully as the Fire Resist plate is not the best AC, you had to make a trade off there, AC for Resists. So.. Ice Blasts might hurt less then fire balls, are you ready to walk in and find out.. and deal with the choice you made?
Well no matter what you do, you’re going to settle, you are going to make a choice at this point, as there really is no BiS item that helps you here, you’re going to make a concession on how you want to handle this encounter, and your choice is not going to be the same as the person next to you, it does not make your choice better or worse than theirs, it was just how you chose deal with the situation.
Next..
Wanna Guess what the Fire Imp is immune to?
Well your Flaming Great Sword is not going to be the best weapon to use on the Fire Imp, but it might be your best weapon to use on the Ice Imp.. so maybe you break out that trusty BiS Sword of Shadows, and end up doing less damage to the Ice Imp and more to the Fire? But keep in mind it has a 50% chance to miss the smoke imp. So, that is a decision you will have to make, and no matter what you do, You’re going to make a trade-off here, the question is, what will it be.
Well, we can see in those situations, you need to make a call on what works for you, what trade- offs you will take, and a trade-off is the counter balance to BiS.
If you need to make a trade-off, it's not BiS.
So by complex mobs, and loot tables, a game like DDO makes you think about encounters, makes you make hard choices, and in the end, you will need to make a concession, you will need to accept that you are going to have make some trade-offs in how you handle encounters, and in some cases you will fall short, no matter how much gear you dragged along with you.
And while make no mistake DDO does have a lot of gear, and a lot of high end hard to get, farm and raid till your eyes bleed gear, no matter what you have, it really will come down to a choice of what effects and abilities you will make trade offs for, for each encounter. It is not as simple as Your Sword is +5 and mine is +6, ergo mine is better. And just like people that look at the Sword of Shadows, and think that is the BiS weapon, they have no idea how deep the rabbit hole goes in this game. So, in a way, DDO can give the illusion of BiS items, bit in its complexity it really does not have any.
I hope this is helped the other people on this forum that were wondering how a game can be made that does not have BiS gear.
It can be done either thought simplicity, like GW2 or vast Complexity like DDO.
Those are two examples I have, I am sure others might have more.
DDO always had BiS for xyz "build" gear. This also included BiS for utility builds which is why you see 10 slotbars for gear swaps/clickies etc etc.
The big variety in builds made BiS more modular though which might make some people think there was no BiS gear but there was it was not just limited like in some games where this weapon was "the BIS" for this class.
Hell if you did lots of past life grind you even have your twinking gear which was basically BiS for quick leveling runs from 1 to 20 without being too class or build specific.
Wow, and I thought the way people abused and violated the term P2W was bad.
So let me see if I have this right, just so I can grasp where you are coming from, to you, having BiS gear means needing to swap that single slot item between several different various equally important and powerful items?
Just so we are clear what you think BiS (Best in Slot) means?
I guess we shall just disagree on what "Best" means.
Cmon Ungood you are smart guy , i know you get this ..
If you have 2 top tier Bows ... And they are identical in every way for this excercise , except , one of them does 35% Fire damage Bonus , and the other is 35% air damage Bonus
You are going to fight a raid boss ...
Its a Giant Tree its fire resist is quite low and will take extra damage...
Which Bow you taking ...Remeber they are Top Tier weapons only difference is it bonus elemental damage
Im guessing you would take the Fire enhanced weapon ...
congratulations , you just equipped a BIS situational weapon
You have the definition of BiS fundamentally wrong.
BiS means there is one piece of gear for that slot that is the best, period.
No matter the situation, no matter what other variables you take into account it is always the best.
It's pretty clear that everyone here except for you gets it. Seems it's not everyone else who is not understanding, but you.
1. Argonian -> Extra healing output and input, plus a built in resource management system and a health bonus. 2. Imperial -> 12% health is still a massive bonus that cannot be neglected. 3. Nord / Orc -> Both have good tanking traits, but are not as strong as the ones listed above.
Coming back about this...
Nords have +20% health regen and +9% health, along with -6% damage taken. Doesn't sound that bad compared to +12% health and 10% chance to regen 6 health on melee attacks...
But more prevalent in todays games you need situational BiS , The
developers are pushing most content to specialized Gear/Builds etc , and
why they make it so easy to swap out gear/skills etc..
This true in ESO, GW2 ,LOTRO on and on .. Particularly if you end game raid ..
Its the developers benefit to have you collect more gear unlock
alternate build set ups etc .. Vault space, Backpack space .. on and on
and on
And this is not new ive been doing it in UO for 21 years now ..
When
i go to Ish for Champ Spwns for ex , i take 4 BiS bows with me as the
Spawn changes as the champ Spawn Progresses to have 1 BiS would be
gimping yourself and hurting the rest of the group ...
1. Argonian -> Extra healing output and input, plus a built in resource management system and a health bonus. 2. Imperial -> 12% health is still a massive bonus that cannot be neglected. 3. Nord / Orc -> Both have good tanking traits, but are not as strong as the ones listed above.
Coming back about this...
Nords have +20% health regen and +9% health, along with -6% damage taken. Doesn't sound that bad compared to +12% health and 10% chance to regen 6 health on melee attacks...
Thats a big difference at End Game Jean
Bulllshit.
You have 3% less health bonus, but 20% more health regen and also a -6% fixed damage reduction against ALL damage. Not to mention the additional frost resistance nords have for specific situations.
Your "big" difference is only in your mind.
Did you even think before posting ?
I should always respect my ignore list and not give new chances... lesson learned.
LMFAO said the guy who said "I'd prefer no best in slot items personally."
But ..If you plan on doing "hardcore" raiding, then be prepared to conform to the meta and make BiS characters/race. conform or be cast out
If I designed games, I would require that Best of Slot in all categories would require mastery of all (or most) aspects of the game. Many (or most) slots would be for killing raid bosses. Some slots would be items awarded to master crafters. Some slots would be for really hard instanced solo encounters. Some slots would be for fully exploring the most dangerous places. And so on.
What would you require?
I like your idea. Every class should eventually reach a point in the game that they need best in slot gear. Unfortunately most games require endless hours spent in dungeons. That gets frustrating after awhile, and doesn't benefit other players. Players that like to explore or craft should be rewarded just like the dungeon junkies.
Amanthe I like everything you said. I would make best in slot almost impossible to get. Only the players with absolutely no life, no girlfriends, lives in moms basement and heavily medicated can obtain the gear.
But more prevalent in todays games you need situational BiS , The
developers are pushing most content to specialized Gear/Builds etc , and
why they make it so easy to swap out gear/skills etc..
This true in ESO, GW2 ,LOTRO on and on .. Particularly if you end game raid ..
Its the developers benefit to have you collect more gear unlock
alternate build set ups etc .. Vault space, Backpack space .. on and on
and on
And this is not new ive been doing it in UO for 21 years now ..
When
i go to Ish for Champ Spwns for ex , i take 4 BiS bows with me as the
Spawn changes as the champ Spawn Progresses to have 1 BiS would be
gimping yourself and hurting the rest of the group ...
If im going to Destard i take a BiS Dragon Slayer
For Lich Lords i take a BiS Silver etc etc ...
You are describing items that are better than other items for a specific purpose, you are not describing an item that is the best in that slot.
Definition of best: excelling all others, offering or producing the greatest advantage, utility, or satisfaction.
Best in Slot is just that, the best in that slot, in terms of how powerful that item is. No item that can go in that slot is better, ever, at anything, until/unless a new BiS item is introduced.
It is a funny world we live in. We had Empires run by Emperors, we had Kingdoms run by Kings, now we have Countries...
But more prevalent in todays games you need situational BiS , The
developers are pushing most content to specialized Gear/Builds etc , and
why they make it so easy to swap out gear/skills etc..
This true in ESO, GW2 ,LOTRO on and on .. Particularly if you end game raid ..
Its the developers benefit to have you collect more gear unlock
alternate build set ups etc .. Vault space, Backpack space .. on and on
and on
And this is not new ive been doing it in UO for 21 years now ..
When
i go to Ish for Champ Spwns for ex , i take 4 BiS bows with me as the
Spawn changes as the champ Spawn Progresses to have 1 BiS would be
gimping yourself and hurting the rest of the group ...
If im going to Destard i take a BiS Dragon Slayer
For Lich Lords i take a BiS Silver etc etc ...
You are describing items that are better than other items for a specific purpose, you are not describing an item that is the best in that slot.
Definition of best: excelling all others, offering or producing the greatest advantage, utility, or satisfaction.
Best in Slot is just that, the best in that slot, in terms of how powerful that item is. No item that can go in that slot is better, ever, at anything, until/unless a new BiS item is introduced.
That old WOW PvP/PvE gear split from back in the WotLK days would like to have a word with you.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
But more prevalent in todays games you need situational BiS , The
developers are pushing most content to specialized Gear/Builds etc , and
why they make it so easy to swap out gear/skills etc..
This true in ESO, GW2 ,LOTRO on and on .. Particularly if you end game raid ..
Its the developers benefit to have you collect more gear unlock
alternate build set ups etc .. Vault space, Backpack space .. on and on
and on
And this is not new ive been doing it in UO for 21 years now ..
When
i go to Ish for Champ Spwns for ex , i take 4 BiS bows with me as the
Spawn changes as the champ Spawn Progresses to have 1 BiS would be
gimping yourself and hurting the rest of the group ...
If im going to Destard i take a BiS Dragon Slayer
For Lich Lords i take a BiS Silver etc etc ...
You are describing items that are better than other items for a specific purpose, you are not describing an item that is the best in that slot.
Definition of best: excelling all others, offering or producing the greatest advantage, utility, or satisfaction.
Best in Slot is just that, the best in that slot, in terms of how powerful that item is. No item that can go in that slot is better, ever, at anything, until/unless a new BiS item is introduced.
No .. You do not understnd the direction the genre has taken ...
There is barely what you describe any longer and more Situational BiS in most games today ...If you fail to grasp this , thats on you , and thats ok , you are a player that most likely is not involved with it , and that also is ok , In many games i dont get there or have the time to get there ...
It takes alot of time and understanding of encounters and systems to get there to achieve that in multiple games is a huge undertaking ..
And thats why in game like ESo that is being used as an exmaple here , there are so many weapon and skill combos , the devs want you to utilize many build apporaches to there encounters now...
It makes for more interesting game play and more in depth experience , more to strive for in gear and builds .. To make encounters specialized in Gear/Skill and Build BiS combinations for any individual encounter...
But more prevalent in todays games you need situational BiS , The
developers are pushing most content to specialized Gear/Builds etc , and
why they make it so easy to swap out gear/skills etc..
This true in ESO, GW2 ,LOTRO on and on .. Particularly if you end game raid ..
Its the developers benefit to have you collect more gear unlock
alternate build set ups etc .. Vault space, Backpack space .. on and on
and on
And this is not new ive been doing it in UO for 21 years now ..
When
i go to Ish for Champ Spwns for ex , i take 4 BiS bows with me as the
Spawn changes as the champ Spawn Progresses to have 1 BiS would be
gimping yourself and hurting the rest of the group ...
If im going to Destard i take a BiS Dragon Slayer
For Lich Lords i take a BiS Silver etc etc ...
You are describing items that are better than other items for a specific purpose, you are not describing an item that is the best in that slot.
Definition of best: excelling all others, offering or producing the greatest advantage, utility, or satisfaction.
Best in Slot is just that, the best in that slot, in terms of how powerful that item is. No item that can go in that slot is better, ever, at anything, until/unless a new BiS item is introduced.
That old WOW PvP/PvE gear split from back in the WotLK days would like to have a word with you.
Really? and would it change the fact that best in slot and best for that encounter are two different things?
It is a funny world we live in. We had Empires run by Emperors, we had Kingdoms run by Kings, now we have Countries...
But more prevalent in todays games you need situational BiS , The
developers are pushing most content to specialized Gear/Builds etc , and
why they make it so easy to swap out gear/skills etc..
This true in ESO, GW2 ,LOTRO on and on .. Particularly if you end game raid ..
Its the developers benefit to have you collect more gear unlock
alternate build set ups etc .. Vault space, Backpack space .. on and on
and on
And this is not new ive been doing it in UO for 21 years now ..
When
i go to Ish for Champ Spwns for ex , i take 4 BiS bows with me as the
Spawn changes as the champ Spawn Progresses to have 1 BiS would be
gimping yourself and hurting the rest of the group ...
If im going to Destard i take a BiS Dragon Slayer
For Lich Lords i take a BiS Silver etc etc ...
You are describing items that are better than other items for a specific purpose, you are not describing an item that is the best in that slot.
Definition of best: excelling all others, offering or producing the greatest advantage, utility, or satisfaction.
Best in Slot is just that, the best in that slot, in terms of how powerful that item is. No item that can go in that slot is better, ever, at anything, until/unless a new BiS item is introduced.
That old WOW PvP/PvE gear split from back in the WotLK days would like to have a word with you.
Really? and would it change the fact that best in slot and best for that encounter are two different things?
Of course it does because there have been other times and other games where best in slot for all activities has existed.
Just think of this way: PvP is one game and PvE raiding is another game. Can different games have their own BiS ordo you put all games together with different mechanics and game play and say that for example FFXIV BiS is the BiS for the whole gaming world?
You wouldn't do that because that's idiotic. But competitive PvP might as well be a completely different game from competitive raiding despite both being found within WOW. So yes, PvP has had its pwn BiS that was separate from raiding BiS in WOW and many other MMOs.
And that is just an extreme and easy to see example. Many games also have class BiS sets that are different for different classes and even situational specific fight BiS.
You have to ignore all of that to say that BiS only means one set for everyone that you always use everywhere. That is just one extreme case of BiS that is also shitty design.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
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“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
In LOTRO i raid and have cleared T2 Abyss and Throne , Our Main Tank is a brilliant kid , best tank on Crick by far , Players seek him for advice constantly
In some of the Boss fights in these raids ive seen him swap out BiS weapon 3 times in 3 different phases of fight ,Knowing that X BiS weapon will give him best DPS at that phase of Encounter in sync with whatever synergies are being exploitied .. to stand there beating on a Boss with one single BiS weapon , would be a hurting the group ..
If I designed games, I would require that Best of Slot in all categories would require mastery of all (or most) aspects of the game. Many (or most) slots would be for killing raid bosses. Some slots would be items awarded to master crafters. Some slots would be for really hard instanced solo encounters. Some slots would be for fully exploring the most dangerous places. And so on.
What would you require?
I like your idea. Every class should eventually reach a point in the game that they need best in slot gear. Unfortunately most games require endless hours spent in dungeons. That gets frustrating after awhile, and doesn't benefit other players. Players that like to explore or craft should be rewarded just like the dungeon junkies.
Amanthe I like everything you said. I would make best in slot almost impossible to get. Only the players with absolutely no life, no girlfriends, lives in moms basement and heavily medicated can obtain the gear.
Agreed, his system is sound but I would prefer the BIS items were so hard to get should a player choose to go for them they really wouldn't have time to pursue mastery in the other areas.
Another idea is for BIS gear items to degrade a level or two if the player didn't spend a substantial portion of their time in game exercising the same activity which got them to the top in the first place.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
But more prevalent in todays games you need situational BiS , The
developers are pushing most content to specialized Gear/Builds etc , and
why they make it so easy to swap out gear/skills etc..
This true in ESO, GW2 ,LOTRO on and on .. Particularly if you end game raid ..
Its the developers benefit to have you collect more gear unlock
alternate build set ups etc .. Vault space, Backpack space .. on and on
and on
And this is not new ive been doing it in UO for 21 years now ..
When
i go to Ish for Champ Spwns for ex , i take 4 BiS bows with me as the
Spawn changes as the champ Spawn Progresses to have 1 BiS would be
gimping yourself and hurting the rest of the group ...
If im going to Destard i take a BiS Dragon Slayer
For Lich Lords i take a BiS Silver etc etc ...
You are describing items that are better than other items for a specific purpose, you are not describing an item that is the best in that slot.
Definition of best: excelling all others, offering or producing the greatest advantage, utility, or satisfaction.
Best in Slot is just that, the best in that slot, in terms of how powerful that item is. No item that can go in that slot is better, ever, at anything, until/unless a new BiS item is introduced.
That old WOW PvP/PvE gear split from back in the WotLK days would like to have a word with you.
Really? and would it change the fact that best in slot and best for that encounter are two different things?
We did the hardest raid encounters back during WotLK and then Cataclysm without all that "best in" bullshit. Yog Saron +0, hard mode Mimiron, Heroic LK, etc... you name them, we dropped them. We were server first on most of those too, and paraded in Dalaran with our Ulduar mounts way before any other guild got them.
I guess some people can't play without "best in slot" gear and the "Flavor of the month" class and spec. Maybe they are just bad ? The people I play with never cared for that, and dang, we were still very good.
I suppose it's the symptom of the new gaming habits... don't beat it with skill and game knowledge, but faceroll it with overpowered gear.
Do you really thing the top raiding guilds in WoW have full BIS items when they do world first kills on Mythic raids? Well, they do not. If they did, they'd not be world first.
Well im certain you realize that for the most part they did have the BiS Tier of Gear before Myhtic ... That is the intention and how tiered content works ..
Of course they didnt have before they went in , that would just be silly wouldnt it
Do you even think before you post this stuff...hmmm
In LOTRO i raid and have cleared T2 Abyss and Throne , Our Main Tank is a brilliant kid , best tank on Crick by far , Players seek him for advice constantly
In some of the Boss fights in these raids ive seen him swap out BiS weapon 3 times in 3 different phases of fight ,Knowing that X BiS weapon will give him best DPS at that phase of Encounter in sync with whatever synergies are being exploitied .. to stand there beating on a Boss with one single BiS weapon , would be a hurting the group ..
Thats how Situational BiS has become
That's awful!
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
1. Argonian -> Extra healing output and input, plus a built in resource management system and a health bonus. 2. Imperial -> 12% health is still a massive bonus that cannot be neglected. 3. Nord / Orc -> Both have good tanking traits, but are not as strong as the ones listed above.
Coming back about this...
Nords have +20% health regen and +9% health, along with -6% damage taken. Doesn't sound that bad compared to +12% health and 10% chance to regen 6 health on melee attacks...
Hey I don't tank in competitive hard mode play. Take it up with Alcast and Woeler lol.
They are the hard mode raid tanks who have been saying Argonians make the best tanks for quite a while.
And once again, I am not talking about what can work since obviously many things that are not the best work just fine. But those who do that hard mode content have opinions that I respect.
What can I say? I'm a humble guy and I respect what those who know more than me about something say about it, especially when most others who also do it agree with them.
And BTW, health regen is considered by most to be a shit stat because of how slowly even the best health regen works relative to how fast more damage is coming at you in extreme boss + adds game play. Mitigation > healing received > health regen is my understanding of survival priority in ESO.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
In LOTRO i raid and have cleared T2 Abyss and Throne , Our Main Tank is a brilliant kid , best tank on Crick by far , Players seek him for advice constantly
In some of the Boss fights in these raids ive seen him swap out BiS weapon 3 times in 3 different phases of fight ,Knowing that X BiS weapon will give him best DPS at that phase of Encounter in sync with whatever synergies are being exploitied .. to stand there beating on a Boss with one single BiS weapon , would be a hurting the group ..
Thats how Situational BiS has become
That's awful!
Not really even with my Hunter i bring two First Age Imbued maxed out LIs , with different mods on them swapping as needed during the encounters ..
And yes First Age Imbued LIs are BiS
Its really very easy , once you learn the fights ..
LMAO in hindsight building the Maxed First Age Imbued LIs is much harder than the Raids
Comments
So let me see if I have this right, just so I can grasp where you are coming from, to you, having BiS gear means needing to swap that single slot item between several different various equally important and powerful items?
Just so we are clear what you think BiS (Best in Slot) means?
I guess we shall just disagree on what "Best" means.
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
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Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
BiS means there is one piece of gear for that slot that is the best, period.
No matter the situation, no matter what other variables you take into account it is always the best.
It's pretty clear that everyone here except for you gets it. Seems it's not everyone else who is not understanding, but you.
Definition of best:
excelling all others, offering or producing the greatest advantage, utility, or satisfaction.
Best in Slot is just that, the best in that slot, in terms of how powerful that item is.
No item that can go in that slot is better, ever, at anything, until/unless a new BiS item is introduced.
We had Empires run by Emperors, we had Kingdoms run by Kings, now we have Countries...
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
We had Empires run by Emperors, we had Kingdoms run by Kings, now we have Countries...
Just think of this way: PvP is one game and PvE raiding is another game. Can different games have their own BiS ordo you put all games together with different mechanics and game play and say that for example FFXIV BiS is the BiS for the whole gaming world?
You wouldn't do that because that's idiotic. But competitive PvP might as well be a completely different game from competitive raiding despite both being found within WOW. So yes, PvP has had its pwn BiS that was separate from raiding BiS in WOW and many other MMOs.
And that is just an extreme and easy to see example. Many games also have class BiS sets that are different for different classes and even situational specific fight BiS.
You have to ignore all of that to say that BiS only means one set for everyone that you always use everywhere. That is just one extreme case of BiS that is also shitty design.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Another idea is for BIS gear items to degrade a level or two if the player didn't spend a substantial portion of their time in game exercising the same activity which got them to the top in the first place.
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Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
They are the hard mode raid tanks who have been saying Argonians make the best tanks for quite a while.
And once again, I am not talking about what can work since obviously many things that are not the best work just fine. But those who do that hard mode content have opinions that I respect.
What can I say? I'm a humble guy and I respect what those who know more than me about something say about it, especially when most others who also do it agree with them.
And BTW, health regen is considered by most to be a shit stat because of how slowly even the best health regen works relative to how fast more damage is coming at you in extreme boss + adds game play. Mitigation > healing received > health regen is my understanding of survival priority in ESO.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED