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World of Warcraft Azerite Gear Concerns Rebutted by WoW Community Manager

SBFordSBFord Former Associate EditorMember LegendaryPosts: 33,127
edited September 2018 in News & Features Discussion

imageWorld of Warcraft Azerite Gear Concerns Rebutted by WoW Community Manager

After a lengthy post on the World of Warcraft forums that collated player concerns about Battle for Azeroth gear (Azerite armor), Community Manager Josh "Lore" Allen wrote a lengthy rebuttal to each point. The original post cited several issues, albeit one or two rather hyperbolic, such as "Azerite - Worst Itemization in WoW's History", "Traits are Useless & Uninteresting", "Trait 'Farming'", "340 Traits Outperforming 385 Traits", "Reforging Costs" and "Power Swings".

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Comments

  • jgDuffayjgDuffay Member UncommonPosts: 237
    They do have a subtle cash shop tho, character boosting costing as much as a new game and services also have a quite steep price. And there is the problem with in order to have fun you must also be bored and to be happy you must also feel sad, or else you will only be numb.
    Darkpigeon
  • SBFordSBFord Former Associate EditorMember LegendaryPosts: 33,127
    edited September 2018
    I find Allen's post incredibly tone deaf and dismissive of valid concerns from the community. Honestly, he's not even a developer. If these answers are from the dev team, they should be attributed to people who coded and developed the system, not the community manager. At least we could feel "unheard" by the people who created this abysmal system.
    Post edited by SBFord on
    MadFrenchieDiscipledOneAlbatroesTorvalThaharJeffSpicoliTuor7malroth67dragonlee66Viper482and 4 others.


    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 


  • btdtbtdt Member RarePosts: 523
    Damage control is out in force.  Blizzcon should be a real hoot.  They're even using Classic now to divert attention.

    Well the good news is, in 2 years, they will reinvent the game yet again... I'm guessing mobile WoW is their last frontier.
    SBFordTorvalThaharTuor7malroth67AlomarJeroKane
  • PemminPemmin Member UncommonPosts: 623
    wow got to say

    the CMs post screams hypocrisy of design. if this CM is acting as a mouth piece for the devs then this is scary.
    SBFordTorvalJeffSpicoliTuor7malroth67AlomarJeroKane
  • gervaise1gervaise1 Member EpicPosts: 6,919
    We're listening though .......
    SBFordTorval
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,505
    edited September 2018
    Wow, the comment about having to sim gear... He completely ghosts that the traits are so out of whack that they straight up violate the iLvl scale. Nobody would complain about having to sim between traits at the same iLvl because they were all competitive..... They complained because the traits make iLvls useless as a gauge. That doesn't have anything to do with complexity of the traits in the game.

    He agrees that refarming traits is bad, but that begs the question: why did you move forward with that core design when it created an issue you, as a development team, acknowledged is not fun? If it's so core it can't be changed, that should've been red flag number one that the overall system was poorly designed.
    SBFordTorval[Deleted User]Thahardragonlee66

    image
  • AlbatroesAlbatroes Member LegendaryPosts: 7,671
    edited September 2018
    I'm sorry, but all his 'explainations' sound more like reasons as to why this should've remained in beta or held off completely....I guess we'll have to wait 3 months until the next expansion before Ion apologizes for the azerite system like he did for rng leggos.
    SBFordTorvalThaharJeffSpicoli
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,505
    edited September 2018
    This is kind of related to another issue I've seen since I came back to the game (in terms of overall blunders by the current team): we have blue posts from May acknowledging issues with specs (such as MM or Shaman specs) that needed to be addressed.  It's almost October, two major patches since then (pre-patch and expansion drop patch), and those specs have not had those issues addressed, and aren't going to have them addressed in 8.1 (save for one Shaman spec).

    How long should customers wait for acknowledged issues to be addressed?
    SBFordTorvalThahardragonlee66

    image
  • k61977k61977 Member RarePosts: 1,377
    One of the worst things I saw on that list is we want you to have to carry around multiple sets of armor. That was one of the things they had gotten away from that was actually nice. Not having to worry about oh my tanking armor is in the bank or taking up bag spaces was a nice change. Now they want to go back to that hell no, either I can use the gear I have for everything or I am not doing everything.
    TorvalDarkpigeon
  • NoxiousBassNoxiousBass Member UncommonPosts: 251
    Tbh, this Aerite armor system mas a major turnoff for me. I didn't even care much for the weapon progression Legion had. Call me old-fashioned, but I think a great weapon/armor drop is a lot more satisfying.
    SBFordTorvalPriddypwnyThaharTuor7VyntArskaaadragonlee66
  • DiscipledOneDiscipledOne Member UncommonPosts: 103
    Since Ion has taken the lead on WoW the tone from Blizzards side has more and more been that they know what they’re doing, people should just play their game and shut up. Theyve gone months without meaningful communication to their community, only to when they finally give it basically just dismiss people’s concerns.

    Instead of giving me classic WoW, I wish they could bring back designers who care both about the game and the community playing it. I know theres a lot of extremely talented people still working in WoW but the ego of the few at the top is really hurting the game.
    SBFordalyndaleThaharJeffSpicolimalroth67dragonlee66borghive49AlmostLancelot
  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 21,410
    gervaise1 said:
    We're listening though .......
    We've listened, and you think you know....
    SBFord[Deleted User]Thahar
    traveller, interloper, anomaly, iteration


  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 38,232
    Wow, the comment about having to sim gear... He completely ghosts that the traits are so out of whack that they straight up violate the iLvl scale. Nobody would complain about having to sim between traits at the same iLvl because they were all competitive..... They complained because the traits make iLvls useless as a gauge. That doesn't have anything to do with complexity of the traits in the game.

    He agrees that refarming traits is bad, but that begs the question: why did you move forward with that core design when it created an issue you, as a development team, acknowledged is not fun? If it's so core it can't be changed, that should've been red flag number one that the overall system was poorly designed.
    After reading through the Blizzard thread a bit, having to look up what "simming" is, and your post here I can't imagine why you or anyone enjoys playing this game anymore.

    I also understand much better why Classic holds such appeal, I think in large part it's a return to a simpler time.

    Even in EVE we never had to break down gear or perform skill analysis like I've read about in this conversation.


    MadFrenchieTorvalThahar

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing ESO - Blackwood at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,505
    Kyleran said:
    Wow, the comment about having to sim gear... He completely ghosts that the traits are so out of whack that they straight up violate the iLvl scale. Nobody would complain about having to sim between traits at the same iLvl because they were all competitive..... They complained because the traits make iLvls useless as a gauge. That doesn't have anything to do with complexity of the traits in the game.

    He agrees that refarming traits is bad, but that begs the question: why did you move forward with that core design when it created an issue you, as a development team, acknowledged is not fun? If it's so core it can't be changed, that should've been red flag number one that the overall system was poorly designed.
    After reading through the Blizzard thread a bit, having to look up what "simming" is, and your post here I can't imagine why you or anyone enjoys playing this game anymore.

    I also understand much better why Classic holds such appeal, I think in large part it's a return to a simpler time.

    Even in EVE we never had to break down gear or perform skill analysis like I've read about in this conversation.


    I think many folks like simming it when they get to the top of the power curve and the gains become very incremental.  There's something appealing about a system that's balanced so well that you literally need to crunch numbers to determine which would be best.

    But Azerite traits didn't do that.  They turned the entire scale on its head and took out any intuitive design the previous system had.

    My personal feelings on simming are that I don't, but that's because I'm not trying to raid and do the highest competitive levels of PvP.
    Kyleran

    image
  • Geddon95405Geddon95405 Member UncommonPosts: 111
    bliz's new design path sucks
    malroth67

    Crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of their women...

  • Panther2103Panther2103 Member EpicPosts: 5,660


    This is kind of related to another issue I've seen since I came back to the game (in terms of overall blunders by the current team): we have blue posts from May acknowledging issues with specs (such as MM or Shaman specs) that needed to be addressed.  It's almost October, two major patches since then (pre-patch and expansion drop patch), and those specs have not had those issues addressed, and aren't going to have them addressed in 8.1 (save for one Shaman spec).

    How long should customers wait for acknowledged issues to be addressed?



    I had to completely change my hunter because MM is so garbage now. BM and Survival just outweigh it so much that there is no viable reason to play MM anymore.

    Honestly I'm still playing the expansion, but traits make me really not want to keep playing. I've been paying for time with gold so I'm not really losing out on money but it's just frustrating. I've actually started playing Diablo 3 / Path of Exile again when I get bored as I don't feel like re-leveling an alt again.
    SBFordTorval
  • 6stack_Chris6stack_Chris Member UncommonPosts: 117
    The deepest I get into the SIMS are my pawn strings. I do not run simcraft on every piece of gear I get, that becomes was more than I want. I guess being a Monk tank though, I just need to stay alive, not deal the dps.
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,505


    This is kind of related to another issue I've seen since I came back to the game (in terms of overall blunders by the current team): we have blue posts from May acknowledging issues with specs (such as MM or Shaman specs) that needed to be addressed.  It's almost October, two major patches since then (pre-patch and expansion drop patch), and those specs have not had those issues addressed, and aren't going to have them addressed in 8.1 (save for one Shaman spec).

    How long should customers wait for acknowledged issues to be addressed?



    I had to completely change my hunter because MM is so garbage now. BM and Survival just outweigh it so much that there is no viable reason to play MM anymore.

    Honestly I'm still playing the expansion, but traits make me really not want to keep playing. I've been paying for time with gold so I'm not really losing out on money but it's just frustrating. I've actually started playing Diablo 3 / Path of Exile again when I get bored as I don't feel like re-leveling an alt again.
    Other than the Double Tap PvP fun I've been having lately, I've put him down in favor of leveling another toon.

    The awkward AoE mechanics became frustrating after a while in PvE.  And Double Tap makes me a fairly one-trick pony in PvP in the end.
    Torval

    image
  • HoldslowhopeHoldslowhope Member UncommonPosts: 42
    "Why dont they just give us everything we want. Why cant we just click a button and my character be the best.. I cant out dps/heal/tank this other guy that tries... This game is dumb." - WoW community.
    Tuor7malroth67Lortakdragonlee66Thahar[Deleted User]
  • Deadrites87Deadrites87 Member UncommonPosts: 94
    edited September 2018
    Glad I unsubbed from this trainwreck. This response is a slap in the face to the people that play this game. The only feedback they will understand is if you vote with your wallet. maybe then their "metric" they use for "fun" will show them that.
    malroth67[Deleted User]
  • gervaise1gervaise1 Member EpicPosts: 6,919
    They are listening ......

    buts its much easier to obsfucate first,
    announce at a later date that some of the issues will be addressed ....
    in a patch that arrives many, many months after release,
    then have a patch that makes getting anything trivial

    and then scrap the system entirely with the next expansion. 

    Supposedly things were tested before launch - so its either working as intended, maybe as some suggest to prod people towards the cash shop - or they simply didn't follow through on the design. Whilst annoucing an intent to "fix" the issues could be seen as an admission that they didn't deliver.

    Internally though there may well be an accounting if revenue is not in line with expectations. And if, as @DMKano has suggested, the expansion hasn't done as well as expected that means even less incentive to spend time "making changing" to appease those who are left since the changes will be most unlikely to bring people who have left back.

    I do expect them to say - in a year maybe - that they listened to feedback and that the next expansion will be the drop dead stunning. Honest.
    malroth67
  • Panther2103Panther2103 Member EpicPosts: 5,660


    This is kind of related to another issue I've seen since I came back to the game (in terms of overall blunders by the current team): we have blue posts from May acknowledging issues with specs (such as MM or Shaman specs) that needed to be addressed.  It's almost October, two major patches since then (pre-patch and expansion drop patch), and those specs have not had those issues addressed, and aren't going to have them addressed in 8.1 (save for one Shaman spec).

    How long should customers wait for acknowledged issues to be addressed?



    I had to completely change my hunter because MM is so garbage now. BM and Survival just outweigh it so much that there is no viable reason to play MM anymore.

    Honestly I'm still playing the expansion, but traits make me really not want to keep playing. I've been paying for time with gold so I'm not really losing out on money but it's just frustrating. I've actually started playing Diablo 3 / Path of Exile again when I get bored as I don't feel like re-leveling an alt again.
    Other than the Double Tap PvP fun I've been having lately, I've put him down in favor of leveling another toon.

    The awkward AoE mechanics became frustrating after a while in PvE.  And Double Tap makes me a fairly one-trick pony in PvP in the end.
    The AOE mechanics are super weird. I didn't even understand how rapid fire worked until I read you had to multishot at least 3 enemies to get rapid fire to bounce or get aimed shot to bounce. I still don't think I fully grasp BM aoe either, seems like sometimes skills hit everything sometimes they don't. 

    I want to try more PvP, maybe I can have more fun doing that, but not getting gear drops in BG's that aren't ranked or from tokens makes it less fun for me. 
    MadFrenchie
  • AlbatroesAlbatroes Member LegendaryPosts: 7,671
    Response piece to "Lore"s post. Long watch, but if you care about the game its good insight:

    SBFord[Deleted User]NeoyoshiThahar
  • ThaneThane Member EpicPosts: 3,523
    edited September 2018


    I wasn't a fan of the Legion Artifact Power grind and am likewise not a fan of the Azerite Artifact Power grind.  Regardless of how it's implemented, this form of "progression" is a bad idea.  It makes the game less fun to play.  There's too much of a push from the game's design to encourage players to grind AP, and grinding AP just burns you out after a while.



    you actually dont grind AP, you grind everything else, and get AP for basically everything you do ingame. but hey, hf grinding "AP". no idea how you do that tho.... might be the reason it burned you out ^^

    362 item lvl atm, and my HoA is @ 22 atm. wanna tell me you "farmed" it higher yet? well grats ^^ why?
    malroth67repubThahar

    "I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"

  • ForgrimmForgrimm Member EpicPosts: 3,021
    The azerite system is markedly worse than the artifact weapon system, and that wasn't good to begin with. When you feel obligated to not equip an "upgrade" that's 20+ ilvls higher than your current piece, because the "upgrade" has worthless traits, it's a failure imo. 
    SBFordmalroth67Albatroesdragonlee66Thahar[Deleted User]
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